Married Father and Baptist Preacher J D Hall – Another Example of How Marriage and Parenthood Does Not Make a Person More Godly or Mature
(There is an update at the bottom of this post).
This involves a lot of back story I don’t want to get into because this blog post would be ten pages long.
I am blogging this primarily for adult singles who have felt marginalized or hurt by Christian denominations or churches that treat adult singles as though they have cooties.
I have a somewhat different motivation for blogging about this than other blogs do. There were a few other blogs who addressed the child abuse aspect of the story, that we have an adult (Hall) badgering a teen kid (Braxton Caner) on the internet.
J D Hall is a Calvinist preacher with a blog called “Pulpit and Pen,” a Twitter account, and a group of fan boys who follow him around online who actually refer to themselves as “Pulpiteers.”
At one time, Hall’s groupies were using the #pulpiteer (or “pulpiteers”) hash to follow each other around Twitter. I’m not sure if they still use the “Pulpiteer” label or not. I will continue to refer to them as such.
This group, and a few other people, have a long standing hatred of another guy named Ergun Caner.
You can read more about Ergun Caner (Link): on Wikipedia
These guys hate Caner because, according to various blogs, Caner lied about his upbringing, falsely claimed he was born in a Muslim nation and was once a terrorist, but none of that was true.
There are other accusations I don’t want to get into because it would take five years to explain it all.
Here is a summary of a few of the complaints about Caner, from the Wiki page linked to above:
-
- In 2010, Christian and Muslim bloggers accused Caner of making up and lying about his life story by citing details that were incongruent with his regularly stated, printed, and often repeated story.
The critics particularly challenged Caner’s claims to have grown up in Turkey, when he actually grew up in Ohio; being raised in a devout Muslim home, rather than a nominal one; having been trained as an Islamic jihadist; having debated dozens of Muslims, although they say there is no evidence of such.
… Caner filed a lawsuit on June 18, 2013, in the U.S. district court in North Texas claiming copyright infringement for reproducing, uploading and maintaining his videos without permission.[20][citation needed] The lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice on April 17, 2014.
When bloggers began exposing Caner, he went after some of them, tried to get their videos and/or blogs removed via lawsuits.
Assuming all this is true, I don’t condone it. I would not condone a guy saying he was raised as a Muslim if he was not, and then trying to make bank off this by working as a speaker or consultant for anti-terrorist groups or getting paid to tell his bogus background story as a guest speaker at churches.
I’d also like to pause here to say I was never very interested in the Caner story when I first became aware of it a year or more ago (I don’t remember exactly when it blew up).
I’m fine with Christians calling out frauds, liars, lies, wolves in sheep’s clothing and such, but I never took a big interest in the Caner story.
I found the entire controversy rather dull, so I did not hang on, or read in depth, every single last update about Caner, and I remain perplexed at the dogged determination of his critics to hound the guy constantly.
Caner has been exposed ten times over for the past few years now, I think the time has come to let it go. After the controversy broke, I think one college did fire Caner(?) for this deceit, but he was hired by another Christian school or church or whatever.
My point is once you put the information out there that the guy was allegedly a fraud, and you write your blog page with a 100 links to evidence to support that claim, and you send that link out to churches and Christian colleges, those organizations can either choose to act on that or not.
To keep chasing the man around the internet or at his various workplaces to expose him is now more a witch hunt, a case of harassment, and less about performing some biblical duty of “rebuking,” “discernment,” or “apologetics.”
It’s at the point now that it looks to me as though A and O ministry leader James White, Chris Rosebrough, J D Hall, and the “pulpiteers” have a personal agenda against Caner, and that’s it’s not even anything to do about calling out false doctrine, or “protecting the sheep” or whatever label they use to assure themselves they are in the right.
These guys, these dogged Caner critics, are coming across more as a jilted ex-boyfriend who won’t stop stalking his ex-girlfriend, than as Christians who are concerned with truth.
ESCALATION
The weirdness and creepiness went up a few notches when Hall – who remember, is a married man with a few kids of his own, and he works as a Reformed pastor – looked up Caner’s 15 year old son, Braxton, on Twitter.
J D Hall then sent Braxton Caner, son of Ergun Caner, a few tweets criticizing the kid for the kid’s commentary online, for posting a photo of the kid kissing his girlfriend as his Twitter profile photo, and other innocuous, run- of- the- mill teenage behavior.
Hall also later mentioned Braxton, if I recall correctly, in a blog post at his blog and in a radio show or podcast.
J D Hall also told the kid on Twitter that if he wanted to know more about what his father was “really” like to contact him in private.
In other words, this J D Hall guy was being a total slime ball, trying to drive a wedge between his enemy Caner and Caner’s son, and taking his animosity against Caner out on Caner’s kid. Very smarmy, troubling behavior.
SELF-APPOINTED MODESTY AND BIKINI POLICE FOR TEENS
Either Hall and/or some of his gang members (the pulpiteers), IIRC based on what I read, on various blogs referred to Braxton’s girlfriend as being a whore or a slut (or implied it), because in one or more photos posted to Braxton’s social media, she was seen with Braxton standing beside a pool or lake in a bikini.
How pathetic.
What I say next is related; it’s not a complete tangent, so keep reading.
As any regular reader of this blog knows, I’m over 40 years of age, a single woman, was engaged, but never had sex because I was waiting until marriage for sex, and I’ve not married yet … I’m literally a virgin.
Further, I think the Christian church today has dropped the ball on supporting adult celibates, I think they need to support sexual purity, and I’m tired of some liberal Christians saying sexual purity teachings ought to be jettisoned altogether because they hurt some fornicators feelings.
However: I’m also not on board with supposed Christian men such as J D Hall and his “pulpiteers” who troll the internet, picking on teen boys, then picking apart the photos of those teen boy’s photos of their girlfriends, and accusing the girls of being less- than- honorable for wearing a bikini, and/or for kissing the boyfriend in a photo or two.
There is nothing scandalous, kinky dirty, or immodest about bikinis or teens kissing – and this is, remember, coming from a literal, adult virgin here.
J D Hall and his pals are puritans about sex, which is not the same thing as being biblical about sex and sexuality. J D Hall and buddies are prudish about sex – the God of the Bible is not.
I have to wonder, did Hall and his “pulpiteers” find the photos of the teen girl some kind of turn on? Why are they checking out a teen girl in a bikini, commenting on her clothing, body, and appearance, one way or another? It sure as heck was not due to “modesty” concerns, please.
(I think Mrs. Hall needs to check hubbo’s computer and make sure he didn’t download teen girl’s photo.)
I remember reading several blogs and pages about all this, and there was one site that carried a large photo of J D Hall with his wife and kids. I vaguely recall a little girl in the photo, and maybe one or two boys.
Maybe we can get another Reformed preacher who is into gender complementarian or patriarchal, courtship bullshit to sit around and analyze the photo of his little girl, and point out absurdities, like she had “too much neck” showing, why that little hussy, that little tramp!
See, Hall and his ilk wouldn’t want people targeting his daughter or his sons in that way, but he was doing this to someone else’s, and his groupies went right along with it.
Why even bring up Braxton’s girlfriend, or drag her into anything? She is even further removed from the whole Ergun Caner mess than Braxton was.
If you have a problem with Ergun, you take it up with Ergun, not his son, not his son’s girlfriend, and not Ergun’s mail man, Ergun’s UPS delivery guy, or Ergun’s pool boy.
Several days ago, which would be a few days (or possibly a couple months, check articles below for more accurate recollections of the time line of events) after Hall tweeted, podcasted, and blogged about Braxton, the boy committed suicide in his and his parent’s home.
PATTERN OF OBNOXIOUSNESS
Months prior to all this, I had observed a few exchanges between Hall and a few people I am familiar with on Twitter (on matters unrelated to Braxton or Egun Caner).
Based on what I saw then, the guy (Hall) came off as a sexist, condescending, obnoxious blowhard, not as a loving, godly, man-o-gawd. There was no humility (which isn’t surprising, since most Calvinists are very egotistical).
CHRIS ROSEBROUGH’S FIGHTING FOR THE FAITH BROADCAST
Also disappointing is online podcast host Chris Rosebrough’s reaction to this (link to episode).
I have not actually listened to that particular episode, but someone on The Wartburg Watch blog provided a transcript of Rosebrough’s show, and then someone wrote a rebuttal to Chris’ comments. Before I paste that in.
I have disagreed with Rosebrough on some topics in the past, but he at least seemed like a genuinely nice person.
In light of his defense of J D Hall, though, I am disappointed. I used to listen to Rosebrough’s “Fighting For the Faith” show pretty regularly, but now, I don’t know if I can stomach it anymore, I don’t know.
Rosebrough sounds more devoted to sound doctrine than how people are treated – so long as Hall mouths “I’m sorry” on a radio show and holds theological beliefs Rosebrough can agree with, he’s willing to cover for Hall.
I find that very, very disappointing, and a little intellectually dishonest.
Please understand: I feel both are important: doctrinal integrity and being kind to other people.
1. You have your liberal Christians who blow off doctrine to be rainbows and sunshine to everyone, so a lot of their beliefs about God are unbiblical…
2. But then you have your guys like Neo Calvinists, Fundamentalists, and others, who may have a lot of correct doctrine, but they consistently treat people like shit, don’t see anything wrong with consistently treating people like shit, and who defend it, or justify it, by saying they are “defending doctrine” or “speaking the truth in love.”
According to the Rosebrough transcript I read, Rosebrough defended Hall, but it was a weak defense.
Here was how someone else replied to Rosebrough’s defense of Hall:
by Gram3:
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- Kay, thanks for your work and for posting this [transcript of Chris Rosebrough defending J D Hall on the “Fighting For The Faith” podcast] which is a great example of deflection by conflation and redirection.
He [Chris Rosebrough] is saying that those who are saying that Hall’s behavior is reprehensible and must not be repeated are *also* saying that Hall is to blame for Braxton’s suicide.
Further, he is saying that since Hall apologized, then there can be no blame ascribed to Hall, therefore all who say that Hall should not have stalked Braxton in the first place are actually the *real* cyber-bullies.
And then, to make sure that everyone notices that he totally misses the point about chronological adults stalking non-adults on social media and interposing himself between a child and his parents, Chris goes on to say we should actually be talking about what he wants to talk about which is Ergun Caner’s sins.
Message to Chris:
Chris, Braxton is not responsible for his father’s actions or words. As you said, just as we cannot blame Hall, we also cannot blame Caner. We. do. not. know. what. caused. this. tragedy. Please keep a low public presence on this until you can speak sensibly to the matter at hand, which is the behavior of chronological adults.
All this shows what you are really concerned about. Everything must circle back to your agenda and your buddies, though I doubt you can see that. I can separate whether or not I think Ergun Caner is the worst person in the world from whether or not a chronological adult should be engaging a minor online about his father. This is not a difficult distinction to make.
Chris, how about if we keep the issues separated so that we can discuss them rationally and Christianly. If you cannot divorce your agenda from the facts as we have them, then you should seriously consider what it would take to provoke some radical introspection among your like-minded cohorts about your general approach to a lot of things.
But, since I am a mere woman, you may disregard all of the above with a clear conscience accompanied by the hearty support of your brethren.
I agree with her assessment.
Rosebrough (and the pulpiteers) are coming off as more concerned with their “get Ergun Caner” agenda than with anything else. Do they even care about Ergun Caner as a person, or no? Because I get the impression they do not.
ALPHA AND OMEGA MINISTRY’S JAMES WHITE
I am in a similar position with A and O ministry’s James White.
I don’t always agree with White about everything, but he seemed like a nice enough guy.
But in a statement White released about the Braxton Caner suicide, I felt disappointed.
White wrote:
Sadly, I have already seen some using this event as a pretext for criticism—not of Ergun Caner, but of those who have sought honesty and integrity in his life. This needs to stop, immediately.
The issues surrounding Ergun Caner’s past can, and must, be set aside for the time being.
By all sides, including his most avid defenders. I, for one, will not pursue the issues relating to Caner’s past claims until after a meaningful period of time has passed, and they become relevant to his future actions.
I call upon all others to likewise give the Caner family time to grieve and deal with this tragedy. I include everyone in this request. Leave all matters of speculation, finger-pointing, etc., to the side.
— end excerpts —
This is the part I found concerning:
Sadly, I have already seen some using this event as a pretext for criticism—not of Ergun Caner, but of those who have sought honesty and integrity in his life. This needs to stop, immediately.
— end excerpts —
Even in the midst of that plea, asking folks to not use Braxton’s suicide to score political brownie points, White himself does that very thing:
He’s telling people it’s ultimately okay for him, J D Hall and others, to keep criticizing Ergun Caner, even though Caner’s son is now dead. He’s telling people don’t use Braxton’s suicide to shut up Ergun critics – amazing. That is what he is concerned about, and at this time (the time of the boy’s suicide).
These Caner critics cannot resist, not even after the man’s son is dead.
They feel fully justified in this continuing Christian Jihad against the guy. Their behavior doesn’t seem very “Christian” to me.
I think it’s been driven home on numerous occasions, plenty enough, that Ergun Caner was dishonest about his past. It does not need to be driven into the ground over and over and over.
FAMILY AS BACKBONE OF SOCIETY GARBAGE PROMOTED BY CHRISTIANS
On this blog, one theme I regularly post about is how conservative Christians, patriarchalists, gender complementarians, Quivering groups, Family Integrated Churches, Vision Forum Ministries, Dominionists, Reconstructionists, and other assorted Christians, have turned marriage and the nuclear family into IDOLS that they worship, and I also discuss how Christians marginalize or shame any adult who does not marry or does not have children.
I at first thought J D Hall was a gender complementarian, but if what someone else on another site said is accurate, he’s even more extreme than comps: he’s one of those patriarchialist types who believe women are nothing but brood mares, that the daddy should pick out the male suitor for his daughter, doesn’t believe kids should kiss or hold hands before marriage and other puritanical bullshit that is not spoken about in the Bible.
Family is not the “backbone of society” as I’ve (or others have) blogged about many times, such as (these are just a few of many blog posts); I have additional comments to make about J D Hall and pals stalking of Braxton Caner below these:
(Link):If the Family Is Central, Christ Isn’t
(Link): Family as “The” Backbone of Society? – It’s Not In The Bible
(Link): Do You Rate Your Family Too High? by Ben Patterson
As we can see, the Bible really does not hold the concept that “the family” is the “center of culture” (Jesus further clarified this in (Link): Luke 14:26 and (Link): Matthew 12:46-50 ). But Christians keep on worshipping the family unit, having kids, and marriage, in direct defiance of God.
At any rate, it is a staple among guys such as J D Hall and pals that “family is the backbone of society.” They typically think mommyhood, marriage, fatherhood and all that is of supreme importance to the Christian church and culture at large (all of which is highly debatable).
TRYING TO BREAK A FAMILY APART
I find it very strange that a pastor who would probably believe in the “family is the backbone of society” unbiblical malarky would never-the-less try to drive a wedge between a man (Ergun Caner) and his son (Braxton) by tweeting to the boy directly online and offering to provide the kid some more unflattering information about the father.
I thought Christians were supposed to be about strengthening father and son relationships, parenting, supporting the family unit, and other Hallmark, schmaltz? But in this case we have a “family and marriage” type blowhard trying to rip a family apart.
THE LESSONS
A few of the lessons (not all, but a few I will list here) that I take away from this…
-Some Christian men who claim to be about modesty are actually betraying this in that they are analyzing the sexiness factor of a 15 year old girl (they’re supporting their own lust and perverted imaginations, not modesty; they are projecting on to the girl what they are guilty of in their minds);
-Some Christians act like bullies and jerks (and then excuse the behavior, excuse each other for it, defend it, rationalize it, and go into CYA mode if they all think the others involved has “correct doctrine”)
-Some Christians have weird, irrational, troubling, fixations on people they perceive to be their theological enemies
-Many Christians claim that being married and/or being a parent automatically makes a person more mature, godly, responsible, sexually pure, or loving – but
a. here we have a married father negatively bantering with the teen aged son of a man he doesn’t like,
b. commenting on the body and/or bathing suit attire of a TEEN GIRL he doesn’t even know,
all of which does not reflect qualities of “maturity, godliness, sexual purity, etc” to me
– Christians bray and bray about the importance of “family,” “marriage,” and “family values,” rant and blame secular feminists for being “slutty McSluts” who boink prior to marriage and raise a kid alone, but have no problem at all with ruining a nuclear family by harassing the kid of a grown man they take issue with
– You most certainly do not have to be perfect or godly to “earn” or “merit” a spouse from God, if guys like J D Hall are any indication
(a lot of Christians teach in their pod casts, books, or blogs to singles that if singles want to marry, God won’t send them someone until He, God, or they themselves (this point varies depending on which Christian is teaching it), becomes more “godly” or work out their flaws. That is, they teach God does not and will not send a spouse to a flawed person.)
Here is some additional coverage of the story:
(Link): Baptist Preacher Fought With Braxton Caner on Twitter, Then Apologized Weeks Before Teen’s Suicide
(Link): Suicide of Pastor’s Kid Prompts (Some) Soul-Searching Among Ergun Caner Critics
I don’t always agree with the guy who wrote this on every issue, but on this one I do – by Peter Lumpkins:
(Link): Time to Stop Social Media Abusers
I think this is an atheist blog(?):
– August 12, 2014 UPDATE ——
J D Hall issued a public apology, which you can view here:
(Link) Pastor repents for interaction with suicidal teen
I read some of it, not the whole thing, because it’s very long, and I do wonder how sincere Hall is, because not only does he focus on himself and his feelings, but he spends a long time running down the sins of E. Caner.
Hall also brings up Braxton’s sins, which aren’t even sins (ie, Braxton’s girlfriend wearing a bikini – wearing a bikini is NOT a sin – and a photo of B. Caner kissing the girlfriend).
As I’ve seen on Twitter, via the accounts of people who talk to Hall’s buddies, some of Hall’s buddies are still defending Hall and downplaying what he did, and still trying to make a case against E. Caner.
Regardless if Hall’s apology is sincere or not, I find it hypocritical that a man who is a product of a culture that idolizes marriage and the nuclear family would in the first place try to damage a nuclear family by driving a wedge between the teen son and the kid’s father. I thought Christians believe in supporting “the family,” not trying to unravel them. That Hall may be sorry after the fact doesn’t change that he did this to start with.
Anyway, maybe this Hall guy was genuine, but he reminds me a little of Mark Driscoll who also issued apologies on and off over the years, but who never really repented. Abusive pastors just mouth off sentiments they know people want to hear but often have no real intention of changing. Maybe Hall is the exception, I don’t know.
Edit 2. Aug 15, 2014.
FBC watch blog guy did a tweet today conveying that he wrote a new post about Peter Lumpkins / Caner, etc., complaining that Lumpkins is dragging things out.
Initially, all sides said they would back off and drop matters in light of Caner’s loss (his son committed suicide).
I simply said to Watchdog in a reply tweet, “IMO, both sides are perpetuating it.”
Where upon a James White defender, or E. Caner hater, (named @Nomad1689, claims to be in Philadelphia, “Reformed Baptist, husband, father, musician, former PCA Ruling Elder”) started yelling at me, “No, prove it.”
I was not interested in getting in a “tit for tat” exchange. I am not deeply engrossed in the Caner Controversy. I found the whole thing boring the last few years. What caught my attention since Caner’s loss are how both sides are in this Hatfield and McCoy fight.
So anyway, I was not interested in a drawn out debate about Caner or what not, so I just told the guy it looked to me as though both sides are in error – which they are. Both sides look very, very bad.
But this guy kept hounding me, wanting to fight, demanded proof, and when I just said, “fella, neither side smells like a rose in this,” he shot back “AHA I told you, no proof!!”
– No, dip weed, I don’t just make stuff up.
I had seen quotes from White and Caner Haters that led me to that conclusion. I don’t just tweet things to just tweet them.
Even in J. White’s first come back, he was blaming Caner and Caner fans:
Sadly, I have already seen some using this event as a pretext for criticism—not of Ergun Caner, but of those who have sought honesty and integrity in his life. This needs to stop, immediately.
— end excerpts —-
Yeah, see, even in that first comment, White was concerned that people would use Braxton’s suicide to shut HIM (White) and Caner haters up. THAT was his big concern. I find that reprehensible.
Anyway, this guy’s attitude was pretty bad. He was being very argumentative, but that’s pretty par the course for these “Reformed” guys, they love to debate and argue. They worship Calvinism and doctrine and put both ahead of human beings.
I just reiterated a time or two to that guy that both sides are egging things on – and they are – but both sides think they are 100% right, the other side is 100% evil.
At this point, it’s safe to say these yea-hoo’s harassing Caner on-line don’t care about Caner or integrity – they care about being right.
I finally blocked him (Nomad1689), because I am not interested in browsing my Twitter feed to see new notifications from him pop up every two seconds. It’s tiresome.
There is something deeply, deeply wrong with both sides of this situation that both sides just want to hound, hound, hound each other.
At this point, though, I have to say the Caner Haters look a bit more obsessed and like wackos than the Hall Haters.
The “prove it” guy is part of the problem, and I loathe that argumentative view.
Just because I don’t want to send you proof when you demand it doesn’t mean I don’t have any, but that I was not interested in getting into a dragged-out fight about it.
He, the guy contacting me on Twitter, is dragging the whole thing on (the Lumpkins/ Caner/ Hall/ White feud), along with the rest.
That these guys are so obsessed with one man (E Caner) and the issues that surround him is creepy ass weird, as is Mr. Lumpkins’ continued calling out of White.
If someone like me -who was never too interested in the Caner controversy to start with and am still not terribly interested in it- thinks both sides sound like weirdos, like obsessed nutters, you might want to stop and reflect on that.
That this Nomad Twitter guy won’t even stop to consider that I may be right – no, he just WANTED PROOF!! – shows you he is pretty close minded, doesn’t care about people, is only out to BE RIGHT and DESTROY HIS ENEMIES.
As you can see from my blog here, I spend most of my time discussing singleness, marriage, dating, and like topics.
I don’t make every other post about J D Hall, Ergun Caner, James White, or Peter Lumpkins, geeze.
And I primarily blogged about the Hall guy because of the hypocrisy – you have a married Christian guy – and Christians claim to believe in “the family”- who was trying to tear another man’s family apart!
All sides in the Caner War need to STFU. Really. They all look like loons at this point.
July 2022 Update – see this post, scroll to bottom for updates:
So much for all their pro-parenthood, pro-marriage, pro-nuclear family, complementarian and Christian patriarchy sexist and idolatry garbage when these guys who bray loudest about it are not capable of treating their own wives and daughters well.
Other related (some only tangentially related) posts on this blog:
(Link): Christians Teaching That All Sexual Sins Are Equal – Thoughts and Reflections (this post mentions J D Hall)
(Link): Modesty: A Female-Only Virtue? – Christian Double Standards – Hypocrisy
– about a Christian guy who thinks he gets to choose who his daughter marries (this kind of teaching/view ends in disaster for the young lady and any marriage she enters into)
(Link): The Annoying, Weird, Sexist Preoccupation by Christian Males with Female Looks and Sexuality
(Link): When We Sacrifice a Girl’s Innocence from NatePyle.com Re: Modesty and Purity Teachings
(Link): Groundbreaking News: Women Like Sex (part 1, 2) (articles)
(Link): Beauty Redefined Site Discusses Modesty: Modest Is Hottest?
(Link): Your Preacher Sucks – and People Have a Right To Say So And Explain Why
(Link): Are Marriage and Family A Woman’s Highest Calling? by Marcia Wolf
– and other links that address the Christian fallacy that a woman’s most godly or only proper role is as wife and mother
(Link): Relationships Of Welcome, Not Fear
-(Re: How Sexist Christian Views Marginalize and Isolate Adult, Single Women and Maintain Other Stereotypes About Adult Singles)
(Link): When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men – and how the stereotype flipped
(Link): Women Are Visual And Like Hot Looking Men (Part 1) Joseph in Genesis Was A Stud Muffin
(Link): Superman, Man Candy -and- Christian Women Are Visual And Enjoy Looking At Built, Hot, Sexy Men
Christian Pundit 