The Left Can Be Just as Bad as the Right – The SCCL Pence Post
(June 7, 2017 edit farther below –
Drury posted a link to this at her SCCL group. Most of her readers have missed the point of the post. Some of them incorrectly assume I am an evangelical, that I voted for Trump, or am a member of the GOP – I am not.
This post has been modified several times to add new information
Some of the more frequent criticisms I’ve received in regards to this post I have addressed in edits below)
January 2021 update:
In light of this (Hill news story right below), I wonder if the clowns at “Stuff Christian Culture Likes” would like to walk back any of their harsh rhetoric of Pence?
More (January 2021 updates):
Over at Liberal- to Ex- Christian (and sometimes atheist) SCCL Facebook group, Stephanie Drury linked to an editorial (her link),
“I Was Trained for the Culture Wars in Home School, Awaiting Someone Like Mike Pence as a Messiah”
“”Christofascists have been wanting someone like Pence in the White House and, until now, didn’t have a way to get one in.”
Posted by Kieryn Darkwater on January 26, 2017
My main point is that groups such as Drury’s, many left wingers, many Ex Christians, are just as bad as those they criticize.
Depending on the topic, they can be just as hateful, rude, or harbor as many blind spots and double standards as those they criticize, whether we’re talking about Republicans, conservative Christians, and Donald Trump (or V.P. Pence) or LGBT causes, or abortion, or whatever the issue.
By the way – Drury’s SCCL Facebook group has largely nose-dived into being an anti-Trump type group over the last few months.
She used to cover spiritual abuse by churches and the like, but politics seem to be over-taking her group a bit.
It seems like every 4th to 5th post at the SCCL group pertains to criticizing Trump.
Where some liberal or ex-Christians feel that Trump’s sexism as overlooked by mainstream evangelicals is a bad thing, okay, I can see that, but groups such as hers are on the war-path on anything Trump says or does, or anything remotely Trump-related.
Trump could find the cure for cancer tomorrow, give that cure away for free, causing countless lives to be saved, and Drury, her group, other anti-Trumpers (or Never Trumpers) would still gripe about it, I am sure.
Further, the talking heads on liberal networks such as CNN and MSNBC would find something about it to find fault with, as well.
(Link): Harvard Study Reveals Huge Extent of Anti-Trump Media Bias – May 19, 2017
A major new study out of Harvard University has revealed the true extent of the mainstream media’s bias against Donald Trump.
They found that the tone of some outlets was negative in as many as 98% of reports, significantly more hostile than the first 100 days of the three previous administrations
I swear to goodness that some of those on the left, or some ex Christians, or some atheists, are every bit as bad as those they regularly criticize, and I am stunned they remain completely blind to this.
It also makes it difficult for me to continue visiting such groups or sites.
On other social media accounts I have, I have had to ban, block, or mute dozens of formerly nice or useful people, because they now use their social media accounts to bash Trump 98% of the time.
These were people who used to share information I found interesting or useful, that had nothing to do with Trump. It’s a real shame when people who were once useful outlets for links, information, or non-political editorials damage their own venues, to the point I have to un-friend or un-follow them.
I can guarantee you that in the next three months, that SCCL Facebook group will post any where from one to five more links related somehow to trashing and criticizing Trump, or anything having to do with him, such as Mike Pence.
Edit, May 27, 2017:
My prediction has already come true:
Sometime today (May 27), Drury posted this Trump-related post to her Facebook page:
(For the record, I support very stringent immigration policies – I do see a correlation between Islam and terrorism, so I am thrilled that Trump wants to cut back on immigration from Muslim nations)
See, she likely posted that content because you’re supposed to be an anti-Islamic bigot just for noticing that 99% of terrorists are Muslim (do you really think (Link): all these examples listed here are committed by atheists, New Agers, Druids, or Methodists?), and you want safer, tighter immigration controls, and I guess I’m supposed to be deeply upset that some Christian preachers chipped in together to pay for the bill-board shown in the post.
By way of posting that content, she’s likely expecting the regular readers there to jump in to bad-mouth Christians who support Trump, or Trump’s stricter immigration policies, good grief.
I think it’s GREAT Trump wants to get tough on the borders and immigration.
— end May 27 update —
As a conservative who has grown tired of culture wars – well, these liberal guys say they are tired of the culture wars too, but I’m noting some hypocrisy.
Many left wingers (or ex Christians, or atheists who are very hostile to religion) who I see posting to sites such as SCCL’s will say they are tired of right wingers fighting culture wars, who make a big to-do out of whether or not sales people say “Merry Christmas” rather than “Happy Holidays,” or always going on about stuff such as abortion, homosexual marriage, etc, yet they themselves engage with such material on their own sites quite regularly.
Anyway, I sort of already blogged about this issue before a few months ago,
But it’s still an on-going problem. A very big one, and I grow more and more annoyed by it as time goes by.
The left wing anti-Trumpers and the right wing Never-Trumpers are still apoplectic about Trump being in office. My dog, but they will not shut up about it. And I’m sick of it.
I’m not even a big Trump person, myself. I stayed out of the last election because I couldn’t connect with any of the candidates.
At this point, I think the Trump-haters are worse than Trump himself – and they’re blind to it. The incessant whining and complaining about Trump is tiring.
SCCL AND KAREN SWALLOW PRIOR
SCCL posted (Link): this, in criticism of K S Prior, in which Prior was apparently arguing for civil disagreement over people who hate Trump or Pence speaking at college commencement ceremonies (Prior’s CT article that SCCL took issue with).
Well, around the time Drury posted that at SCCL, a conservative guy on a politically conservative site criticized the hell out of K S Prior’s Mother’s Day post, where she asked churches to be more sensitive to single women or infertile women (link to that on Wash Post).
The conservative guy was saying on his conservative site that anyone who feels troubled by Mother’s Day (such as people who have experienced infertility, a miscarriage, or who has a dead mother) is a “snowflake” or too sensitive and just needs to get over it
He felt that Prior’s editorial was just too touchie-feelie, and that everyone should just shut up and allow folks to celebrate Mother’s Day (the guy was just a complete insensitive jackass about the subject, as so many of my fellow right wingers are).
So, here we have both Drury at SCCL and a conservative guy BOTH picking on Prior. It made me wonder.
==== June 27, 2017 Update =====
Well, this is a little confusing.
I have tweeted to Drury before, in a friendly manner, sharing links with her I would think she would like to share on her own Twitter account, or at her SCCL Facebook group, and she has in fact shared some of those links I’ve sent her with her group or on Twitter.
I checked in at her group today, where she posted a link to this very post on her Facebook group (link to that here), where she says:
“You’ve all made the Christian Pundit very unhappy. Please keep it up. “
As I’ve said, I may be critical of her group at times (I’ve done previous posts about her group before – see links to those posts at the bottom of this post, under “Related Posts”), but I’ve been congenial towards Drury on Twitter.
This just goes to make my point for me – Drury and those at her group can be just as bad as those they criticize.
There are right-wing people who have been hurt by the church, or certain Christian doctrines, or by Christians, who, like me, may be considering if they want to remain in the Christian faith or not.
Groups like Drury’s though, only mock and criticize people such as myself – I find it hypocritical and insensitive that her group panders to liberals / left wingers and their pet causes – but they’re fine throwing rocks at conservatives.
That is one reason of several I never, ever post there. I only drop in sometimes to lurk.
I don’t know if I’d say she’s made me “unhappy” or not. I’m merely pointing out some of the inconsistencies I’ve seen in her group.
This still remains very much true of her group:
And of course, several commentators left nasty remarks below her post.
I didn’t see any of them address my part above about Karen Swallow Prior – not only was Drury critical of Prior, but Prior has been targeted before by complementarian Christian men.
I had one guy (who follows Drury on Twitter) tell me that I’m “not a good writer.” I never said I was. But by all means, play a version of Tone Policing, where you ignore the substance of my post to critique the writing style.
To the guy who referred to me as a “snowflake” and a few others leaving messages: I didn’t vote for Trump in the last election (or for Hillary).
See, that’s another problem with Drury’s group: they lump all right wingers together, and assume all right wingers are the same.
Lori Fox said in that thread:
It’s true, everyone is completely horrible if they don’t continually provide the entertainment or information that I desire, and I will not rest until every last one of you is an automaton doing my bidding. (end quote)
Drury can certainly post what she wishes to her group, but it seems to me it began as a way of helping those who were hurt by the church (which would include myself), but lately, it’s devolved into being more of a political site, where’s she using it to bash Trump every third post.
Is SCCL supposed to be a political forum now?
Or, does Fox feel that Drury and/her her SCCL group are above critique? (I also have a right to express my views.)
David Mantel said:
This guy claims to have “noticed” that “99% of terrorists are Muslim.” I hope he “notices” my comment. You’re an uneducated piece of trash. Don’t @ me. (end quote)
I’m not a guy, I’m a woman.
I don’t know you, and I have no desire to “@” you.
But yes, about every time I hear a new news story about someone stabbing random strangers on the street, or rolling over pedestrians on a European street with a truck, it almost always turns out to be Muslims.
Todd Erickson said:
So, being critical is JUST as bad as ruining our reputation with the entire planet, ruining the planet, colluding with the Russians, taking away healthcare from the poor, and cutting nearly a trillion dollars in taxes to give massive breaks to the wealthy? Exactly the same? (end quote)
Did this guy even read my blog post? I wasn’t defending Trump policies across the board. I didn’t even vote for Trump. I do agree with him on the need for better vetting on immigrants, though, as I stated above.
It’s not just that you guys are “critical” of Trump.
I’m fine with “critical,” it’s that the “critical” veers off the rails to full, bat-shit insane hatred, and every third post at sites like that are fixated on Trump (or some other political figure liberals hate).
The never-ending Trump- (or conservative-) bashing gets very tiresome for some readers who don’t support (or hate) Trump.
There’s been no proof yet that Trump colluded with the Russians, by the way – liberals are looney on that the way some right wingers used to be looney about Obama’s birth certificate.
Regarding: Joyce Nickel’s comments: I’m just saying that many liberals have a really over-board, irrational hatred of Trump. The amount of vitriol I see from liberals, and the sheer amount of attention they devote to him, comes across as very unhinged.
Curt Story said:
“Over at ‘liberal-to-Ex-Christian (and sometimes atheist) SCCL”
From the start, it’s pretty obvious he’s trying to manipulate a response from his readers. People who spend their lives attempting to indoctrinate others don’t understand honest dissent–they assume everyone’s being played. I also noticed the writer names the creator of this page–but doesn’t provide his own name. Should I call that cowardice? I will. (end quote)
I’m a coward merely because I write under a pen name? Hmm.
What I see going on at SCCL crosses the “dissent” line at times into something else.
As I’ve said on my blog many times, I’m possibly in the process of de-converting from Christianity. I’m not sure. Maybe I’ll stick with the faith, maybe not. This guy seems to assume I’m a regular, church-going evangelical – I am not.
Anyway, I’m not trying to manipulate a response or indoctrinate anyone.
I’m simply sharing my thoughts and observations. I’m saying SCCL, like many ex-Christian or liberal groups is not necessarily a warm and fuzzy place for people to participate in, unless they agree 100% with the group. They can be at times just as nasty, or more, than those they are criticizing.
For Austin Franklin, who said he can’t even understand what I’m trying to say. Here’s the point of this post in a nut shell:
The Left (including Stuff Christian Culture Likes) Can Be Just as Bad as the Right (or whomever else they criticize)
Frank Bourgousie said:
People can make all the false equivalences they want but it doesn’t change reality. Lampshading the horrors of the GOP isn’t acceptable pretext to any of the statements made in the blog alleging such equivalences. And conservative Christians are either agreeing with Cheetolini or overlooking his landfill fire because he’s willing to give them a handful of crumbs that appeal to their particular take on their religion. (end quote)
A lot of conservative Christians don’t like Trump – they tend to refer to themselves as “Never Trumpers,” and are just as obsessed with Trump as Trump-hating liberals are.
By the way, I’m not a Republican. (I used to be one but left the GOP a few years ago.)
And yes the attitudes I see at the SCCL group towards Republicans and conservatives is dismal – you guys bully and mock anyone who doesn’t walk in lock step with your “SJW” liberal views.
I made it all the way to “I swear to goodness” and was all, like, GTFO. (end quote)
(GTFO usually stands for “Get the Fuck Out”) – You can GTFO, June.
I wrote in a previous post I’ve noticed the fondness of ex-Christian / liberal Christian groups such as SCCL’s for the word “fuck.” They really like to use that word. I don’t know why, but I suppose it’s because they feel it makes them edgy, hip, and cool.
But yes, the SCCL group is, at times, just as bad as the Republicans or whomever they are choosing to bully that day. Just as bad.
That Facebook group could be useful if they’d stay away from politics and stick to topics such as abuse that is covered up by churches, and so on.
That Drury posted a link to this blog post, and that most of her group took it the way they did (as an insult rather than constructive criticism or maybe they could use this information for some reevaluation to improve their group), tells me that the point of this post sailed right over their heads.
They are hostile to anyone who does not share their views. I’ve seen people show up, merely asking questions for clarifications on some topic or another, or who have politely expressed a view that disagrees with liberal sentiments, and they have gotten shredded by most of the visitors there.
It’s not a hospitable group for wounded Christians who are not far left wing.
(Edit 2.) By the way, I have been contacted (on Twitter) a few times over a year now, via the posts I’ve tweeted about SCCL, by people who were hurt by Drury’s group.
Some of these people – some who are centrist politically or are right wing – tried posting to SCCL, and engaging in sincere conversation there, but they were stomped on, because they didn’t fully agree with any and all SCCL group think.
I had one woman (who I’ve known online for a year or more, she’s a decent person and not a liar, I’ve seen her around on other sites) tell me she tried conversing with Drury on Twitter in the past, but Drury kept accusing her of being a man posting under a feminine name.
SCCL may be the kind of group that’s interesting or helpful now and then in regards to news stories, but I cannot advise anyone who is centrist to even moderately conservative posting there, because you will likely not be welcomed.
I checked my Twitter account. I let Drury know I updated this post to add more commentary and she sent me (Link): this Tweet.
She said to me:
it may or may not interest you to know i am checking this at morning mass (end quote)
I would assume there that she is being glib and dismissive there – hard to say.
So I told her in my reply Tweet:
You tend to bully people, Stephanie. There are right wing/ conservative people who have been hurt by the church, too. U don’t seem 2 care [about them] (end quote)
I do honestly feel that way.
She tweeted me back a few times.
She seems to feel insulted by this comment by me:
I would assume there that she is being glib and dismissive there – hard to say.
She stated to me in return (Link to Tweet):
You said you assume I was being glib or dismissive by telling you I’m at morning mass. I was at mass. I’m not an atheist. You assume a lot. (end quote)
Her Facebook group attracts many different types of people – I’ve seen atheists post there, ex Christians, liberal Christians.
From what I’ve seen in her group, I’ve never seen Drury clearly define what her beliefs are exactly about Christianity or Jesus, aside from the fact she “fucking loves the shit out of Jesus” and thinks he’s an okay guy. I’m not completely sure what any of that means.
Drury also seems to feel that Jesus is a Bernie Sanders supporter, based on some meme about Jesus she posted on there once, mentioning socialism.
Beyond that, I’m not exactly sure what she believes concerning Jesus and Christianity, because I suspect, that like me, she doesn’t really know either.
Though, as I told her on Twitter, I am more right wing, she comes across as left wing.
Drury’s readership sure assumes a lot about me, right off the bat – that I’m still a Republican, I go to church every week, etc. Several of them assumed that I’m a man.
You can see someone named Daniel Pool (Link to one Tweet) get snarky with me:
(Daniel Pool to me):
Buddy, it’s [your blog is] unreadable. You’re not a good writer. I’m sorry. (end quote)
It looked to me as though Daniel was assuming I’m a man. I bet anything he was.
I told him:
I’m a lady – not a guy. I didn’t claim to be a good writer. It’s a blog where I just share my thoughts. (end quote)
Buddy is a gender neutral term, pal. (end quote)
Yep, I’m well aware of that, but I think he honestly felt I was a man until I corrected him.
Here was my reply to Pool:
I realize that [that buddy is a gender neutral term]. Maybe u don’t care, but ur behavior/attitude is only reaffirming how I already feel about the type of people who post there
Sorry for responding with honesty to something you posted on the internet, where anyone can see and respond to anything. (end quote)
And right back at you Regarding the tweets from SCCL folks on here, and whatever Drury posts in her group. This works both ways…. (end quote)
I honestly cannot figure out why the people from that group believe SCCL (which is open to the public) or its views, are, or should be, above criticism, but they’re okay with her posting a link to my blog so they can mock me over there or Tweet at me.
Their logic so far: it’s okay for her to publicly criticize others (or me), but not for me to publicly critique issues I see with her group.
(Edit 4 – yes, I’m putting these out of order).
(Related Post on this blog: (Link): Stuff Muslim Culture Likes)
So some guy sends me this:
If you’re “not a horrible person” I’d like to see the stats you derive your claim that 99% of terrorists are Muslim from. Show your work. (end quote)
As I said to this guy (his Tweet is (Link): here:
Please explain why it is most every news story I hear ends up that the terrorist was a Muslim. That was the point. (end quote)
About every news story I hear – from the guy who blew up concert-goers at the Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, Great Britain, to the other, more recent story of the guys who used knives and a van to injure, or murder, people on or by the London Bridge, turned out to be radical Muslims.
They were not Methodists or Druids.
Is this guy, and the ones who take offense at my “99% Muslims” remark above wanting to argue that all these guys are actually atheists, Hindus, Jews or Lutherans?
This news story comes from a left wing paper:
The 22-year-old was influenced in part by the people who formed the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, a little-known al-Qaida affiliate outlawed in 2004
The ringleader of the London Bridge terror attack was so open about his extremist views that he appeared in a fly-on-the-wall documentary entitled The Jihadis Next Door, it emerged on Monday.
Khuram Butt, 27, a British national who was born in Pakistan, was filmed praying in front of an Isil flag in London’s Regent’s Park as part of a controversial Channel 4 programme that was broadcast in January last year. (end excerpts)
Adam Heff tweeted this,
Is this really still a thing we’re fucking doing?
And I replied,
I hope not. I’m getting tired of getting Tweets from grouchy SCCL fans.
There upon I got a link from Drury to this You Tube video, with a guy singing a song with the lyrics: “is there anything better than pussy, yes, a really good book”
I did send her this (link to a Tweet) in reply.
Me being tired of getting grouchy Tweets from Drury’s buddies doesn’t mean I want her sending me other stuff, that is, as far as I can tell, pretty much irrelevant to the earlier Twitter conversation we had.
She’s being passive aggressive and snarky- nothing about her behavior is clever, cute, or funny. And this is a woman who claims to care about domestic violence victims, and others?
Drury is making becoming a liberal look about as appealing as sticking a hand into a hornet’s nest or poking a sleeping Grizzly with a stick.
I keep getting Tweets from various SCCL related people. I did let Drury know in a Tweet that I don’t find her treatment of myself or those like me consistent with her group’s stated aim of helping people hurt by the church.
Several times someone related to SCCL has sent me a rude, snarky, or critical Tweet, Drury has faved or starred those – they show up in my Twitter “notification” area. I Tweeted about that (Link): here. It’s pretty sad.
Their behavior towards me today certainly has done nothing to change my view that their group (or Twitter associates) would be friendly towards anyone who isn’t completely in sync with their liberal views.
So many of them talk a fine talk about wanting to reach out to victims, the hurting, the marginalized, but if you’re not one of them in the area of politics and such, they get very snarky, mean-spirited.
I think when they say they care about victims and the marginalized they don’t mean anyone and everyone, only those to whom liberals consider worthy of compassion and consideration.
_____June 14, 2017, Update.
I checked my Twitter account today, which is the first time in a few days.
I got a Tweet from someone named ‘April something- or- other’ (I checked again, her screen name was, “HeyprilAllYear”), who, if I understood her Tweet correctly, described this very post as “bullying.”
(I ended up blocking this April person, because I am done dealing with Drury groupies or SCCL fans.)
What I’m doing in this post is not bullying: I’m pointing out the bullying that goes on by Stephanie Drury and her Twitter followers and Facebook group members.
Drury and her group often behave in the same way they condemn in others, which is one of the main points I was making in this post. They are only accepting of people with liberal values, while claiming to care about anyone who’s been hurt by churches or Christianity.
Drury has way more followers than I do – both on her Twitter page and her Facebook group page.
Any time Drury posts anything about a person, her fans will generally Tweet or post about the person, or visit that person’s blog to leave rude comments.
In my case, it’s just me here posting and Tweeting.
When I sent Drury a Tweet last week letting her know I saw she posted about me at her group, her groupies seized on that, and I was receiving negative Tweets from them all day Wednesday (June 7, 2017).
The last time or two Drury posted about my blog over a year ago (at her SCCL Facebook group), I said nothing at that time. This time, I let her know I was aware of her group post that mentioned my blog page.
I don’t think her fans realize she is using her group and Twitter not to help people, but as a bully pulpit, from where her dozens of friends or supporters attack people on her behalf.
I don’t have dozens of people leaping to my defense; it’s just me here. (Not that I’d want any followers of mine going to war with others.)
I’m just saying there’s something troubling about someone who says she supports victims but is using her social media to incite others to attack those she is discussing. I’m not the bully here – I’m pointing out the bully behavior, April.
This post has been edited to add more commentary or links
(Link): The Ex Christian, Ex-Exvangelical, Now Atheist Hits the Nail on the Head About Exvangelicals – post mentions SCCL, etc
(Link): Democrats, Never Trump Republicans, Progressive and Apolitical Christians – A Double Standard – “You Can’t Vote For X And Be A ‘Real’ Christian and be in the ‘Cult of X’” – The Left Have Turned Politics Into a Religious Cult
(Link): Christian Virginity Peddlers Vs Muslims Who Molest Girls and The Liberals Who Look the Other Way – (post mentions SCCL Facebook group)
Link): Stuff Muslim Culture Likes
(Link): The New Minority: Why as a Gay Christian Man I Stand with Tim Farron by David Bennett