The Consider The Lily Blogger, 220 Lily, Thinks You Should Believe in God For Anything, But This Was Sure Not Her Message to Me in 2016
About two years ago a person calling himself or herself (I will assume this is a woman) – “220lily” – (who has her own blog (Link): here – January 2019 update: as of this date, Word Press says that the 220Lily blog is no longer available; I wonder why she deleted her blog?) – she had the audacity to scold and lecture me in the comment section of my own blog, under one of my (Link): One Stop Threads.
Edit, April 2021: This person has a (new?) blog called (Link): Critics Corner – Biblically Based Commentary on History and Culture
I just checked out Lily’s (Link): Twitter page (edit January 2019: she has also deleted that particular Twitter account, though I don’t know when), and on it, she says of herself:
“White. Female. Pentecostal. Philosopher. Preacher. Poet. Travel tweets: English churches, Bible sites. Tennessee, USA”
I think after exchanging several posts with her, I blocked her. (I may tweet a link to this blog post to her on Twitter and block here there, too, as I’m not interested in having an on-going debate with her, but I think she should be made aware of this blog post.)
220Lily became increasingly judgmental as our exchange continued – and that is (Link): not what my blog is about.
Yes, please click that link to visit that page (here it is again), and please scroll down to the comments section to see the conversation that 220Lily and myself had. (Link to the first post from 220Lily to me is located (Link): here.)
I just now noticed the passive-aggressive, catty, bitchy barb that 220 Lily left in her initial post telling me that she allows all comments on her blog, even those that disagree with her blog – as though this makes her superior to me or my blog in some fashion.
Let me tell you, I may not allow argumentative comments on my blog (which I state up front, right at the top of the blog’s main page, hello, so it is not a surprise), but I don’t automatically assume that I’m better person or a better blogger than someone else who blogs differently from me or who has differing blog rules from mine. Good lord, the arrogance.
Today, in March 2018, I once more looked at Lily’s posts on my blog because I was editing one of those ‘one stop’ threads. I skimmed down and saw her comments again.
I clicked on her screen name in one of the comments she left on my blog to see if she has a blog, and if so, what she’s been writing lately. She does in fact have her own blog, and her last post to her blog was published about a week ago.
As I compose this blog post today, this is the most recent post on her blog, “Consider the Lilies”-
(Link): Do You Believe? (that link is to her blog post on her original blog; it is no longer available –
– she has re-posted it to a new blog location
(Link): here – “Do You Believe?”)
(Link): Twitter Link about Blog Post
Here are a few excerpts from that blog post by 220Lily:
Excerpts by the Consider the Lily Blogger:
I shared this story here last week (see “Face to Face”), but I’ll share it again because I think more people need to hear it.
Last Sunday morning at church, I prayed to see God’s power.
Tuesday night, he answered my prayer.
How? When I went to bed, my cell phone had 6% battery power left. It had been in the red zone (0-15%) for hours, but I wanted the battery to drain completely so I could recharge it. Minutes later I checked my phone and the battery level was 16%, out of the red zone.
What happened? God miraculously powered my phone, without electricity! Is this event technologically possible? No. Old batteries do funny things, but they can’t charge without electricity. …
What does this experience tell me? God can do anything instantly, without human help.
Yes, he gives people the knowledge to design phones and perform surgery.
Sometimes God chooses to work through human instruments. But they’re not necessary.
Man isn’t indispensable because God isn’t limited by human power. He can make pigs fly if he wants to. And it’s easy for him. There’s no struggle! The question is, do we believe?
//// end excerpt
What hypocrisy, considering this person’s condescending lecture to me two years prior on my own blog (again, you can view Lily’s condescending and victim blaming comments to me under a blog post here).
I sincerely believed, beginning around the age of ten (and I was encouraged to do this by older Christians), that if I prayed, trusted God, and had faith in God, he would one day send me a spouse.
I’m over 45 years old now and have never married, in spite of praying and trusting God to send me a spouse.
My life experience has taught me that you can believe, trust, have faith, and pray all you want, but belief, trust, faith, and prayer do not translate into getting your prayers answered or your needs met.
So, in spite of spending three plus decades asking God to send me a husband, God has never sent me one, but he supposedly re-charged Lily’s phone’s battery supernaturally or via the electric outlet or USB in her house? Is she serious?
She really thinks her zapped-out, low-charged battery takes precedence, or should take precedence, over and above something such as God sending me, or another praying adult single, a spouse?
Really?
She does not think it’s selfish to ask, expect, or want God to re-charge her phone battery for her? But it’s considered selfish, or what not, by her, for me to have hoped or expected God to send me a husband via prayer or via church, or to have expected other Christians at church facilitate introducing me to single men?
Lily does not see the double standards and hypocrisy in her own theology.
In the course of my chat with this Lily person in the comment box on my older post, she told me, or implied, if my prayers are not being answered, it’s because I’m selfish, or that I am not “saved”.
I note in her post entitled, (Link): “Do You Believe,” that Lily did not interject all the negative, victim-blaming, and “Debbie Downer” views in her own blog post that she left for me on my own blog. How duplicitous and misleading of her. Do her regular blog readers (if she has any?) know that she does this?
Here is a snippet or two of what Lily told me in a 2016 comment to me on my own blog:
But God helps us so that we can serve other people and bring him glory, not just so we can have our needs met.
// end quote
But God cared about self-less, giving, oh- so- saintly Lily so much that he supernaturally re-charged her phone battery for her? Spare me.
Here is part of what Lily told me in one remark on my own blog in 2016 – notice how she assumes and implies that if my prayers were not responded to by God, it’s obviously – OBVIOUSLY! – because I am an un-saved heathen, I am selfish, or there is something else “wrong” with me or wrong with my behavior or life:
Prayer: I’ve had few prayers answered, and I’ve prayed thousands. They aren’t selfish either.
So if God isn’t listening to me (on my clock), then according to the Bible I’m either unsaved or have unconfessed sin. There are no other options.
I know I have the latter and I’ve confessed it, which doesn’t make me repentant. I still believe, “Let God be true and every man a liar.” Have you asked yourself, “Am I truly saved or am I a sinner? If the latter, do I have unconfessed sin?” Also, do you know what biblical conversion is, and have you truly experienced it?
// end quote
So, in Lily’s botched, theological frame work, if you are not getting your prayers answered it’s because you have not been truly, “biblically converted.”
Because as we all know, “real” Christians never experience unanswered prayer or pain or suffering in life (I’m being sarcastic there, because of course, even “real” Christians face persecution, disease and other problems in life – see Jesus Christ, Job, Paul the apostle for examples).
No, I don’t have any “unconfessed sins” in my life.
For pity’s sake, no penis has ever been in my vagina or my mouth, and I’m over the age of 45 – I’ve never had sex – but Lily seems to assume I’m out there dicking around with numerous men, robbing gas stations daily, being a harlot, or lying, cheating and stealing. I’ve never done any of that stuff.
I was a sweet, insecure, loving, little, goody two shoes Christian doormat my whole life, until the last few years.
My mother was “over protective” of me, so I lived a very sheltered life, and I did not want to hurt or disappoint her or disappoint God, so, I’ve lived a squeaky clean life.
I’ve likely lived a purer, more “biblical” and cleaner life than Lily ever has. So who is she to sit in judgment of me, and assume if God is not replying to my prayers it’s because there is something at fault with me?
Where does she get off condescendingly lecturing me about prayer and theology on my own blog, to boot? I could tell from her replies to me that she had not noticed that I had already blogged about some of the very topics she was preaching to me about.
The Bible warns people like Lily that bad things can happen to good people.
See the book of Job, as one large example.
Sometimes if bad things happen to a person, or God does not answer their prayers, it is not because they are a sinner, are un-saved, or have unconfessed sin.
The book of Job, and teachings of Jesus, indicate that if you have been living a righteous life but are still experiencing pain, suffering, and your prayers are not answered, it’s because humanity is living in a sin-fallen world where Satan still has sway.
Your pain or suffering or unanswered prayer may not have anything to do with you at all but may be attributable to other entities or phenomenon entirely. That is what the Bible itself teaches, but Lily contradicted that in her responses to me.
In some cases, you are sinned against, not the sinner. You are an innocent victim, not a sinner whom God is refusing to help.
As I told Lily at the time regarding one of her comments to me:
You are promoting codependency. I grew up with that bullshit. I know better now.
So do the Christian psychiatrists who wrote this book; you can read it for free on the internet:
(Link): Twelve ‘Christian’ Beliefs That Can Drive You Crazy (on Google Books)
See in particular from that book:
“Assumption 1: It’s Selfish To Have My Needs Met”
I also do not care about “God’s glory,” which I have blogged about before:
(Link): I don’t care about God’s glory
…What you [Lily] are conveying in your reply is not what the Bible says regarding unanswered, or delayed response, to prayer.
The Bible does not say that regarding suffering, or unanswered prayer, that either (or both conditions), are due to a person’s sin or to supposedly being selfish.
I did blog posts about that subject, which you have apparently not bothered to read, such as:
(Link): Blaming the Christian for His or Her Own Problem or Unanswered Prayer / Christian Codependency
The Bible says when bad things happen to good people, it’s not always due to the person’s fault, or to some sin they may have done.
….You would have expected Jesus to blame this man’s blindness on some shortcoming of his, but Jesus had none of it (from John chapter 9):
As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth.
2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.
Luke 13:4, 5: Jesus Christ speaking:
No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
4 Or those eighteen who were killed when the tower of Siloam collapsed on them: Do you think that they were more sinful than all the others living in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”…
Hmm, Jesus explained that sometimes bad stuff happens to people just because we are living in a fallen world – they don’t always find themselves subject to suffering because they did something wrong.
/// end
You can read the remainder of my response to Lily in (Link): this post.
By the way, I never said that the “only” reason God helps people is to “just” meet their needs – on that point, Lily was putting words into my mouth.
Of course God may help you so that you can turn around and help someone else.
I never said otherwise.
However, who says there are not cases where God does not help someone just to help them because it brings God joy and happiness to do so, because God knows it brings that person joy and happiness, and it has nothing to do with helping other people?
I have a true life story on my blog somewhere about a Christian girl who prayed and asked God to send her a pet dog, because her father refused to get her a dog himself – and she says God did so. She says God sent her a puppy.
Now, getting this pet dog did not help humanity in general, and due to getting this dog, I don’t think this girl turned around and helped someone else as a result.
Getting the pet dog just made that woman happy when she was a little girl, and that was all it did.
Getting the pet dog did not serve a higher, altruistic or spiritual goal, other than God letting this kid know that God cared about her, enough to answer even a small prayer like that one – a prayer that Lily would say was selfish and that God should not have answered.
This kid I blogged about was not praying for world peace or to feed orphans: she just wanted to have a cute puppy to love and play with, and assuming God sent her that puppy, as she says he did, God was okay with that.
If Lily was going to be honest on her blog about what she really believes about church and unanswered prayer, she should’ve amended that “Do You Believe” post to sternly lecture readers, as she did to me on my own blog regarding these issues, that if God is not sending them what they are praying for, it’s because
- they are selfish,
- have an incorrect view of what church is for,
- that they are possibly “un-saved” (i.e, not a “real” Christian),
- and other victim-blaming commentary.
So, you can be a faithful, true-blue Christian who believes with her whole heart that God will help her with some issue in life, but according to Lily’s 2016 comments to me, if God is not responding to your needs and prayers, it’s because you are a big sinny McSinner who is holding on to un-confessed sin, and your problems or unanswered prayers are ALWAYS your fault in some capacity.
Lily was attributing negative motives to me, ones that I do not have.
(By the way, there is (Link): nothing selfish about praying and asking God to send one a spouse.)
220Lily says out of one side of her mouth (in her 2016 remarks to me) that she does not subscribe to codependency, but she clearly explains – out of the other side of her mouth – Jesus Christ in terms such that she feels that Christ was a codependent, and that God, yes, expects Christ-followers to have codependent traits (I left a follow up response to that sort of thinking (Link): here).
In another post on her blog, (Link): What Is Man?, Lily writes:
One would think that studying the sky, the land, the sea, the animals, and the human body would make people stand in awe of the God who made it all. So why is the world plagued with atheism today?
People are too busy believing in themselves. They think the world can’t live without them.
I heard a horrific anecdote at a missions prayer class last week. A teenager told a missionary to the Czech Republic, the most atheistic nation in Europe, that since Christians had been showering attention on him, he didn’t need the God they told him about. He himself must be God.
…How did we get here? The short answer is Satan (Genesis 3:5), but there’s more to the story
//end
One huge reason so many people are avoiding church or are leaving the Christian faith to become atheists is because Christians have failed. Many Christians are failing to consistently live out even the most rudimentary instructions of the faith, and others notice this, and it’s a turn-off to many.
Why would I want to bother following Jesus myself, when so many who claim his name aren’t bothering to follow his teachings? It looks pointless, so why bother?
That so many people are becoming atheists, or are Christians who are becoming atheists, or are Christians who are dropping out of churches, has little to nothing to do with Satan, or with people being selfish, and whatever else Lily is prattling on about.
I could dedicate another post all on its own to dissecting her views there and explaining why they are problematic. I’ll try to keep it brief here:
For every testimony you can toss at me about someone who discovered Jesus in their 30s or older, and found peace and joy in Jesus – rather than in looking to themselves, or a career, or whatever they had previously been looking to for purpose or meaning – I can point you to myself (who is currently quasi- agnostic, for lack of a better term) and to ex- Christians who did not find peace or joy in “knowing Jesus,” or in attending church weekly, or in neglecting their own needs to help others.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a person “believing in themselves.” There is a difference between having healthy self-interest and being selfish or self-absorbed, and I don’t think Christians such as “Lily” understand this differential.
Based on what I’ve seen Lily compose on my blog, and from what I’m skimming on her blog, she is in fact endorsing codependency, a mindset and behavior set that God actually discourages, in the Bible, Christians from having.
The fact is that all human beings, Christian or no, have emotional and physical needs, and the God of the Bible acknowledges this. The Bible tells Christians to help people, including other Christians, to get those needs met.
The Bible also tells you, the individual Christian reading this post, that you should seek to get your own needs met from and by another Christian, or from a group of Christians, and that it is not selfish, man-centered, or egocentric to do this.
For example, if you are a Christian who is sick and recovering in bed, the Bible would direct you to phone another Christian and ask him or her to visit you at your home to cook you meals or perform other chores for you so long as you are sick, and yes, the Bible says, you can and should expect that Christian you phone to drive over and help you.
(Of course, if some of the Christians you phone for such help cannot or do not want to help you at this time or in this capacity, you have to respect their boundaries as well. They may say no, they don’t wish to help you now, or not in this way, and that is their prerogative.)
Another example: If you are a single Christian woman who desires marriage, the Bible indicates that your Christian friends or local church should help you get your relationship needs met, by fixing you up with single men, or by doing things like hosting social events for the express purpose of mixing single adults or both sexes together.
None of that is considered, by the Bible, to be “selfish,” inappropriate, or “that’s not what the church is for.”
As I’ve explained on previous posts on this blog, the church was not invented by God for ONLY spiritual purposes such as “worshipping God” or “spreading the Gospel.” The Bible demonstrates that the church has other functions and purposes as well, some of which have to do with meeting the needs of people on earth.
If you are having issues grasping how it is that God says it’s fine for Christians to get their needs met (including me, including you) via other Christians or via a church, then please see this online book, written by Christians:
(Link): Twelve ‘Christian’ Beliefs That Can Drive You Crazy (on Google Books)
The fact is, every human being on the planet, including Christians and atheists, have physical and emotional needs. Trying to deny those needs or repress them can and does lead to physical and mental health problems.
However, many Christians and churches misconstrue the normal, God-designed behavior of people trying to get their needs met through other people as being wrong, selfish, or they say it’s “not what the church is for” (though the Bible teaches otherwise, and actually has examples of early churches meeting the “earthly” needs of other churches and Christians!).
As to this comment by Lily:
I heard a horrific anecdote at a missions prayer class last week. A teenager told a missionary to the Czech Republic, the most atheistic nation in Europe, that since Christians had been showering attention on him, he didn’t need the God they told him about. He himself must be God.
//end
Christians should be showering attention on people.
Loneliness is (Link): an epidemic in many nations these days. One way churches can minister to those around them is to reach out and provide companionship and so on.
The church is, again, not intended by God to be only “God-centered” and “God-focused” all the time, where all Christians are to do when they gather is to praise God, pray, and worship God: God tells you in the Bible to (Link): meet the needs of other people, including first (Link): other Christians (Galatians 6:10).
Another thing: I would take anything a teen-aged kid says with a grain of salt, especially an atheist teen commenting on Christians: many teen-agers are notorious for being sarcastic smart asses.
Lily also said (from the post (Link): What Is Man):
Since man seemed magnificent, Enlightenment thinkers decided that they didn’t need God. So they took his place
//end
God designed humans to need other humans. God designed humans to get their needs met through other humans – God does not, and did not, always supernaturally intervene to help a human who is in pain or in trouble.
From what I gather, Lily’s mindset is that she feels that God has designed humans to only need God alone, but that is not what the Bible itself teaches.
The Bible actually instructs Christians (human beings) to gather with other Christians, to eat in fellowship with one another. And this is so for the purposes of companionship and emotional support, not merely to “worship or glorify God” or for some other spiritual purpose.
Human beings have physical and earthly needs and concerns, not spiritual ones only.
I was raised with this mentality by churches and Christians from the time I was a kid, that I should only be God- and other-people focused, and that I myself don’t matter.
I was taught by churches and Christian literature that my needs and feelings don’t matter. I was taught that if I go after what I want or consider my own needs, that is wrong and bad because it is supposedly selfish or humanistic.
So, I spent my entire youth and adulthood being all pious, reading the Bible, thinking about God, and helping other people – and none of that produced peace, purpose, inner joy, and all the other positive things that Christians promise.
It looks to me as though Lily is promoting this mindset that thinking of one’s self or finding purpose in life won’t bring one happiness – and for some people, that may be true – but the Christian formula, which is the opposite, of putting other people’s or God’s concerns above one’s own, seeking first the kingdom of God, as is taught by Christians – is also not helpful or productive for some people.
Seeking after God and his kingdom, putting myself last, and serving others constantly, sure didn’t work for me and did not work for many others who have left the Christian faith; it did not bring me joy or peace.
Also, putting myself last constantly – to serve others – resulted in me constantly attracting people to me who were selfish, users, manipulators, and abusers. I was regularly exploited by greedy or uncaring people.
Until you learn it’s okay to put you and your needs first at times, you will continue to attract abusive people to you, people who are happy to exploit you.
UNHELPFUL – EVEN HARMFUL
I don’t know if 220Lily blogs out of boredom, if it’s a hobby for her, or if she really believes she is helping people.
I find some of Lily’s theological views to be simplistic, in error, and harmful.
Lily basically dropped into this blog to scold, lecture, and “correct” me about two years ago – none of that I found helpful or encouraging.
Lily’s responses to me and my situation showed a total lack of understanding and were insensitive and presumptuous.
I’d surmise that Lily’s blog is not doing most people any good. She’s doing more harm than good and should stop blogging, or at least stop blogging about theological topics and stick to blogging about thimble collecting or some other innocuous subject matter that will not adversely impact anyone who may be hurting, questioning the Christian faith, or going through a difficult time in life.
January 2019 Update
(Update: she still has a blog called (Link): Arts and Culture and this blog – (Link): Consider The Lilies – and a Twitter account under the name and handle of “Imago Dei” (Link): @imagodei18)
Related Posts:
(Link): Life Lessons After Recovering from Codependency – I Can’t Save You, and I No Longer Want To
(Link): Critique of Pastor Groeschel’s “I Want to Believe But…” Sermon Series (Re: Unanswered Prayer, etc)
(Link): Joanne The Widow Lady Wants to Know Why God Didn’t Answer Her Prayer to Keep her Husband With Her
(Link): When Narcissists Fake Being Sick to Manipulate You – Re: Boundaries, etc
(Link): Stop Believing God Told You to Marry Your Spouse by G. Thomas
(Link): Blaming the Christian for His or Her Own Problem or Unanswered Prayer / Christian Codependency
(Link): Those “God Brought Me My Spouse” Stories – Woman Says God Brought Her A Spouse on the Beach
(Link): Depressing Testimony: “I Was A Stripper but Jesus Sent Me A Great Christian Husband”
(Link): Christians Who Can’t Agree on Who The Old Testament Is For and When or If It Applies
(Link): Christian Double Standard – Pray Earnestly For Anything & Everything – Except Marriage?
(Link): Desire for Marriage is Idolatry?
(Link): Depressing Testimony: “I Was A Stripper but Jesus Sent Me A Great Christian Husband”
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