Do Married Couples Slight Their Family Members as Well as Their Friends? / “Greedy Marriages”

Do Married Couples Slight Their Family Members as Well as Their Friends? / “Greedy Marriages”

Yeah, you will remember that Jesus says that the spiritual family of God – other people who believe in Jesus – are to take precedence over your own spouse or children.

Does the American evangelical church live this teaching of Jesus’ out? Nope – they worship the nuclear family and put non-relatives at the bottom of the list of priorities.

(Link): Do Married Couples Slight Their Family Members as Well as Their Friends?

    Intensive coupling is a cultural phenomenon

Published on April 21, 2011 by Bella DePaulo, Ph.D. in Living Single

… What interests me about this is how individual experiences map onto what could be a bigger cultural phenomenon. The author believes that when two people marry, their social circles should increase, as they welcome one another’s family and friends into their expanded social network. Instead, her son withdrew into an insular twosome with his wife.

Those who espouse the supposedly transformative powers of marriage often make a similar argument: When people marry, their social horizons broaden. The problem is that the data are not always so cooperative. I’ve written before about the national surveys showing that adults who have always been single are more likely to visit, call, or write their siblings and parents, and to socialize with friends or neighbors, than are adults who are currently married. (The previously married are in between.) Always-single adults are also more likely than married adults to provide emotional or practical support to parents, siblings, friends, and neighbors.

In previous posts here and at All Things Single, I’ve focused on the slighting of single friends by people who become seriously coupled. The mad mom’s tale reminds me that it may not be just friends who are nudged to the side. And, my reaction to that essay – hey, it is not (just) personal that your son seems to be shunning you, it’s cultural – reminds me that the same may be true when couples ignore the people they once regarded as good friends. Maybe it is not (just) personal, it’s cultural.

I think the phenomenon (sometimes called “greedy marriage,” because couples want all of the time and attention and affection for themselves) is probably especially difficult for those who straddle different cultural eras. The “intensive coupling” that is commonplace today (though hardly characteristic of all couples) is a relatively recent practice. If you can remember a time when married couples were more expansive, and you expected your kids or friends to be that way, too, then their retreat to we-are-onedom must be particularly painful.

(Link): The greedy marriage – The New York Times

By Chris Berdik

Published: Sunday, September 16, 2007

More precisely, marriage can be greedy, according to Naomi Gerstel of the University of Massachusetts at Amherst and Natalia Sarkisian of Boston College, who have written a paper called “Marriage: the Good, the Bad, and the Greedy.” Analyzing two nationwide social surveys, they found that married couples spend less time than singles calling, writing, and visiting with their friends, neighbors, and extended family. According to their research, married people are also less likely to give friends and neighbors emotional support and practical help, such as with household chores.

Gerstel and Sarkisian’s research flies in the face of recent academic studies and political speeches arguing that marriage is the endangered cornerstone of a healthy society, benefiting the mental, physical, and financial well-being of children and adults, and, ultimately, their fellow citizens. They argue that marriage may actually, albeit unwittingly, have just the opposite effect – sapping the strength of American communities and diminishing our ability to think and act for the common good.

“Many, bemoaning the retreat from marriage, also mourn the loss of community,” they wrote in the Fall 2006 issue of Contexts, a journal of the American Sociological Association. “What these nostalgic discussions do not recognize, ironically, is that marriage and community are often at odds with one another.”

…Over the last century, Americans have become more romantic about marriage, and that’s not always a good thing, according to some scholars.

Continue reading “Do Married Couples Slight Their Family Members as Well as Their Friends? / “Greedy Marriages””

Totally Obnoxious Parent: Childless Couple Who Donates to Childrens Charities Lambasted by Snotty Adult Sister for Not Showering Her Kids with Christmas Presents – Parents Who Discriminate Against the Childless or Childfree

Childless Couple Who Donates to Childrens Charities Lambasted by Snotty Adult Sister for Not Showering Her Kids with Christmas Presents – Parents Who Discriminate Against the Childless

Oh my dog. The level of snottiness from this bratty adult parent. Amazing.

Letter to advice columnist Carolyn Hax (I have not yet read Hax’s reponse; I am keeping my fingers crossed Hax tells her to take her anti childless attitudes and shove them up her ass):

    [Dear] Carolyn:
    I’m pretty annoyed and appalled at my brother, “Ted,” and his wife, “Lisa,” regarding Christmas and I’m wondering how to approach them.

    On our side of the family there are four siblings (including Ted) and five nieces and nephews. Three years ago we decided that the Christmas gift exchange had gotten to be too much, so we agreed that gifts among the siblings and grandparents would only be given to the children. It worked beautifully and everyone had a blast (we thought) watching the kids with their toys.

    Last week, Ted informed me that he and Lisa are bowing out of the afternoon gift exchange and will only show for dinner in the evening because, as the only childless couple, they’re “not really a part of it.” Meaning, because they don’t get any presents they’re not going to give any!

    I was shocked at such stinginess considering that, even though none of us is hurting for money, they’re by far the wealthiest.

    It hurts even more considering the fact that they provide a veritable waterfall of presents for Lisa’s goddaughter, and every year they buy a ton of toys for the “giving tree” at their church!

    My sister and I don’t know how to explain to our kids that their uncle and aunt don’t think enough of them to buy them a little Christmas present. As the oldest, I’ve been elected to talk to Ted about this and I’m looking for help in presenting to Ted how bad this makes him look to the rest of the family and how to get him to reconsider.
    Scrooge’s Sibling

😯 Why in the fuck (don’t be shocked by the naughty language, you were forewarned weeks ago, LINK) should a childless couple be expected to buy presents for children, for anyone’s children?

(Rhetorical. My answer is they should not be expected to. Not buying some rugs rats some gifts, not even for nephews and nieces, does not make them selfish, stingy Big Meanies.)

The mother (or “Moo,” as Child Free would refer to her) who wrote this letter to Hax certainly has a huge entitlement mentality.

In case you are curious, here is part of Hax’s reply to The Bitch:

    But it’s neither the only possibility nor a persuasive one to me. If Ted and Lisa have long been the non-parents at child-centric family events, then their choice might be a coping mechanism for them, not a slap to your kids — especially if they want to be parents but keep hitting obstacles.

    Maybe, too, they never enjoyed the kid frenzy and prefer seeing their nieces and nephews one family at a time. Even some parents would opt out of child-centric events if they could.

    … Consider this one also: With four siblings and grandparents, plural, among the adults, all affluent, and with only five kids receiving gifts, and with a family precedent of gift-giving run amok, it’s not hard for me to whomp up a mental image of Christmas day excess.

    … Most of all, I’d wonder why you approached me solely to extract gifts, and not to understand my reasoning and find another way to include me. So I’ll ask you: Why? Don’t say boo to Ted until you fill in that blank.

And in today’s column to Amy, some woman who’s been married for 14 years says she found out her husband (whom she has two kids with) has been cheating on her. Oh yes, marriage (and being a parent) magically transforms people into godly saints! 🙄
Related posts:

(Link): Cultural Discrimination Against Childless and Childfree Women – and link to an editorial by a Childless Woman

(Link): Why all the articles about being Child Free? On Being Childfree or Childless – as a Conservative / Right Wing / Christian

(Link): Prejudiced Writer Stupidly Blames Slutty Halloween Costumes and Societal Ills on Childless the Childfree, and Unmarried Adults – but Married people and parents are not perfect either

(Link): The Fruitful Callings of the Childless By Choice (editorial)

Singled Out: How Churches Can Embrace Unmarried Adults by Christena Cleveland

Singled Out: How Churches Can Embrace Unmarried Adults by Christena Cleveland

This is a rather long blog post. I do not want to reproduce the entire thing, so please visit the blog and read the entire thing.

I would also encourage you to read the visitor comments at the other blog. Those are quite informative too.

She raises points in her blog post about Christians and singleness and marriage that I have been discussing at my blog here for over a year to two years now, including the concept of “married people privilege,” which I blogged about months ago here on my blog: (Link): Christian ‘Married People’ Privilege – Marrieds Think Single Life = Easy / Marrieds and Parents Turn All Topics Into Them And Their Needs / Problems

Here is the link to the other blog entry about singleness:

(Link): Singled Out: How Churches Can Embrace Unmarried Adults by Christena Cleveland

    By christena on December 2, 2013

    … After doing extensive interdenominational research, Dennis Franck,the national director of single adult ministries for the Assemblies of God denomination, concluded:

    “The vast majority of evangelical and Pentecostal churches of any denomination are ‘marriage and family focused.’ That in itself is not a bad posture. Most Christian leaders understand the importance of marriage and the church’s role in strengthening the family unit. The unfortunate reality, however, is that our marriage and family emphasis many times does not include single adults. This is not necessarily by design but is often by ignorance and neglect.”

    … Meanwhile, single people are relegated to the margins.[ii] Whether this is intentional or not, this “married people monopoly” results in a Christian world in which single people are often misunderstood, ignored, overlooked for leadership positions, caricatured, equated with immaturity, and little more than a punchline or an afterthought. To me, it makes sense that churches and Christian organizations have a poor track record when it comes to honoring single people.

    … [A]fter interacting with the church, many singles start to wonder:
    Is there something wrong with me? Is God working in my life? Am I as valuable (to God, to the church) as married people? Does God love me as much as he loves married people? Does God have good things in store for me as a single person?

    … In a Church that was founded by a single guy, singles are terribly marginalized. There’s something wrong with this picture.

    So without further ado, here are my tips on how church people (pastors, leaders and other influencers) can turn this barge around and begin to create communities that honor the image of God in single adults.


    1. Admit that singleness is complex and that you know little to nothing about it.

    A lot of people seem to think that singleness is to marriage as junior varsity is to varsity.

    As a result, married people sometimes mistakenly believe that they know something about singleness when in fact they don’t. Singleness isn’t a junior varsity version of marriage.

    It’s an entirely different sport – and if you haven’t played it, you haven’t mastered it.

    The average marrying age is 29.8 years for men and 26.9 for women. If you got married before these ages, then it makes sense to acknowledge that your experience as a single adult is below average. In other words, you don’t know a lot about singleness. This calls for humility.

    2. Recognize that as a married person, you are privileged.

    Married people run the Christian world.

    For example,

    – Since many pastors, board members, and organizational leaders are married, the married perspective is well-represented in the Church in ways that the single perspective is not.

    – Married people are much more likely to get hired as pastors.

    – A quick search at reveals that for every 1 Christian book on singleness, there are 298 Christian books on marriage.

    – Just for getting married, friends and family members buy married people expensive gifts like Kitchen Aid mixers (a mark of privilege if there ever was one).

    – Marriage is the norm, the gold standard.

    If you don’t adhere to it, people ask questions.

    Case in point: I’m out-and-about in the Christian world a lot these days. As a result, I meet new people all of the time. The fact that we’ve just met doesn’t stop Christians from asking me why I’m not married.

    Out of the blue, and with a quizzical look, they’re like, “How come you’re not married?” It’s my most frequently asked question. Seriously.

Please visit her blog page to read the rest. Thank you.
Related posts, this blog:

(Link): Want To But Can’t – The One Christian Demographic Being Continually Ignored by Christians Re: Marriage

(Link): To Get Any Attention or Support from a Church These Days you Have To Be A Stripper, Prostitute, or Orphan

(Link): Never Married Christians Over Age 35 who are childless Are More Ignored Than Divorced or Infertile People or Single Parents

(Link): The Myth of the Gift – Regarding Christian Teachings on Gift of Singleness and Gift of Celibacy

(Link): False Christian Teaching: “Only A Few Are Called to Singleness and Celibacy” or (also false): God’s gifting of singleness is rare – More Accurate: God calls only a few to marriage and God gifts only the rare with the gift of Marriage

(Link): No Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity [they ATTACK both concepts]

(Link): How the Sexual Revolution Ruined Friendship – Also: If Christians Truly Believed in Celibacy and Virginity, they would stop adhering to certain sexual and gender stereotypes that work against both

(Link): Part 2, The Parable of the Neglected Unmarried – Single – Christian

(Link): Married People Who Find Themselves Single Again – Spouses With Dementia / Married People Who Are Lonely

(Link): Singleness Is Not A Gift

(Link): Astonishing: Evangelical Baptist Marriage Idolater David E. Prince Wants to Know Why Evangelical Baptists Are Not Worshipping Marriage More

(Link): If the Family Is Central, Christ Isn’t

(Link): False Christian Hype About Waiting Until Marriage For Sex – We’ve Gone From “It’s Mindblowing” to Now: “It’s Magical” Re: Timothy Keller / Tim Keller Virginity Celibacy Singles PreMarital Sex

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”

(Link): Single Adults – Why They Stay and Why They Stray From Church – Book Excerpts

(Link): The Netherworld of Singleness for Some Singles – You Want Marriage But Don’t Want to Be Disrespected or Ignored for Being Single While You’re Single

(Link): Why So Much Fornication (sex outside of marriage) – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): Tim Challies Christian Blogger Who Proclaimed That All Fornicators Are Virgins Is Now Telling People Not to Look In Lust – WTF?

TBN Devotes Entire Nov 19, 2013 Praise the Lord Show To Marriage – They Never Devote Entire PTL to Singles – Common for Married Christians and Parents To Be Self Absorbed

TBN Devotes Entire Nov 19, 2013 Praise the Lord Show To Marriage – They Never Devote Entire PTL to Singles

Today’s PTL (Praise the Lord) on the TBN Christian network is hosted by Kathy and Mike Hayes, with a panel of other preaching couples.

One of my un-favorite married people was on this show, too, with his wife – the guy who thinks that unmarried people are not quite as valuable as married people (see links at the bottom of this post for more about that). His name is Jimmy Evans.

Christian marital advisor Mark Gungor was also on this episode.

The entire 2 or 3 hour program has been about marriage and marital issues.

In the 8, 9, some odd years I have watched Christian networks (and I watch them a lot, so I’m quite familiar with their shows), this is probably the fourth or fifth all-marriage related Praise the Lord episode I’ve seen.

Other PTL episodes have had guests who discuss marriage, though those particular episode (unlike tonight’s) were not 100% devoted to the topic.

TBN has even had Christian guru Mark Gungor on a couple of other PTL episodes discussing nothing but marriage.

I have yet to see an episode devoted to the UN-married, to the singles or the childless and childfree.

Continue reading “TBN Devotes Entire Nov 19, 2013 Praise the Lord Show To Marriage – They Never Devote Entire PTL to Singles – Common for Married Christians and Parents To Be Self Absorbed”

What A Winner | It’s Always Better to Stay Single Than Marry or Date a Loser (re: E. JEAN Advice Column)

What A Winner | It’s Always Better to Stay Single Than Marry or Date a Loser

The “winner” in the title is pure sarcasm.

I cannot believe the crap women take off men. It is better to stay single than date or marry a selfish idiot like the one described in this letter:

(Link): Ask E. Jean: The Bad Boyfriend With Bad Manners

    DEAR E. JEAN: I have so much love for my gorgeous, kind, very smart boyfriend, but he belches and doesn’t follow up with a polite nicety. I’m obsessing over this because he makes me feel like an uptight “prissy girl” for expecting a simple “excuse me.”

    I swear I’m not a prude! But he defines modern manners as “feeble social conventions.” He has other issues that are problematic for me—he smokes too much pot, is lazy, makes no money, and has no prospects—but all I ask is for him to make me happy with this one thing: not to belch in front of me. Am I crazy for thinking a man should not burp loudly in front of a lady?

    —Mad for Manners

    MAD, MY SUAVE MUSKMELON: Yes, it is perfectly correct for a shiftless, stone-broke pothead with “no prospects” to burp loudly in front of a lady whenever the lady is stupid enough not to say to the shiftless, stone-broke pothead with no prospects who is belching in front of her: “Excuse me, clod. We’re finished.” If you wrap yourself around an idle man, you’ll end up with a dick.

One should not have to ask an advice columnist what to do in a situation like this. You should not even be dating this guy. You should have kicked his ass to the curb months ago, or not even dated him to start with.

Self Professing Christian Married Guy of 21 Years and Father of Two Admits to Being a Pervy Unfaithful Rat Bastard Who Uses Cheating Sites to Hook Up With Greedy Vapid 20 Somethings

Self Professing Christian Married Guy of 21 Years and Father of Two Admits to Being a Pervy Unfaithful Rat Bastard Who Uses Cheating Sites to Hook Up With Greedy Vapid 20 Somethings

Recap on typical conservative Christian teachings regarding marriage, gender, dating, etc and so forth:

    1. if you wait until you get married to have sex, God will send you a spouse -and-

    2. that spouse will be a decent Christian person who won’t screw around on you

    3. the marital sex will be great and frequent

    4. it is implied that because the Bible contains the line “be not yoked to a Non Christian” that a Christian woman should marry ONLY a self professing Christian man, because a Christian guy will treat her better, won’t abuse her, won’t cheat on her, etc

    5. It is assumed by Christians that married people have better sexual ethics than un-married people

    6. It is assumed by Christians that people who are parents are more godly, mature, and responsible than the childless or childfree

Here’s another example, farther below, showing all that to be big, fat lies.

Also: men who seek after women more than ten years their junior are perverted, and big loser-creeps. See: (Link): Creepy, wrong, immature and pathetic: older men chasing after much younger women

The ego on some men, too – this pervy, loser douche bag just assumes that the 20 year old girl he approached at the store (who he mentions in his letter) would have said “yes” to his date request.

Reality time for middle aged and senior men out there:

Let me tell you something, most women are GROSSED OUT by older men, unless those older men are ultra rich and the woman in question is greedy, or the older dude is movie star Johnny Depp.

The only reason this letter writing idiot got 20 somethings to date in the first place is that he was hitting them up on a sugar daddy site, which he admitted to using (such women are looking for MONEY).

The vast majority of normal 20- something women do NOT want to date older men, they do NOT have “older men” fantasies, etc.

I am in my 40s and DO NOT want to date or marry any guy age 50 or up. Once I get to 50 myself, I would be fine with a 50 something.

But I have never, ever been keen on dating anyone ten years my senior. Five years makes me nervous, forget about ten.

I get approached by dudes of all ages on dating sites, but the ones with white hair who are in their 60s and older make me want to puke, and they were contacting me when I was in my mid 30s and on dating sites.

(And my god, I do NOT look over mid 30ish, even now.) What makes these guys with jowls, wrinkles, and white hair think any woman in her 30s, 40s (or even 50s) would want to date them?

I disagree with Amy’s advice. If this selfish moron is going to be a serial cheater, he should divorce his wife.

Letter to advice columnist Ask Amy Octber 2013

    I have been happily married for 21 years. Communication is great, we rarely argue and we spend a lot of time together. We have two wonderful teen daughters.

    Unfortunately, I have a major problem. I am completely consumed by lust. I was faithful the first 15 years of marriage but for the past six years I have had intimate affairs with 23 (and counting) girls in their 20s. I hook up with them on “sugar daddy” Web sites.

    Thankfully this terrible action on my part has not caused any financial burden or STDs. I have considered seeing a sex therapist but I think my urges are too strong to fix. Recent example: I was shopping and came upon a hot 20-something. The second I saw her, my heart rate doubled and I had butterflies in my stomach. I started to approach her for a potential date but she walked away.

    Believe it or not, I am a Christian and a churchgoer. I have extreme remorse over my behavior but can’t stop it. Sometimes I think it would be best if I simply filed for divorce so I don’t continue hurting people.
    — Hopeless in the Suburbs

    Divorcing your wife will not diminish the hurt you are causing — it doesn’t even touch the damage you are doing to yourself (and others).

    You sign your letter “Hopeless,” which illustrates the personal hell of an addiction that is consuming you.

    The description of your physical sensations and intention to approach a stranger in a store for sex puts you in the predator category.

    This compulsion is personally and spiritually degrading.

    It is also in direct conflict with your stated personal values.

    There is help for you, but you need to be honest with your wife, admit your powerlessness over this and seek professional help and treatment.

    The next time you are tempted to use the Internet to hunt for another sugar baby, I hope you will be brave enough to find help for yourself instead.

    The Society for the Advancement for Sexual Health offers information and links to articles, professionals and 12-step groups on its Web site:

And They Like to Caution Single Women About Being “Too Picky” Check this nauseatingly too picky list by a single 39 year old who will die single

And They Like to Caution Single Women About Being “Too Picky” Check this nauseatingly too picky list by a single 39 year old who will die single

This 39 year old man (he goes by the screen name “Romeo Rose” as well as “Sleepless in Austin”) will never, ever get married, unless he happens across a very, very emotionally damaged, codependent woman, they are the only sort who would go along with this, but then, he might not meet one who is a red head, sans glasses, etc etc…

This makes me glad that I’m single.

(Link): Delusional Man-Child Has Most Incredible List of Dating Requirements

This is the summary of his list, along with the intro from his site’s home page; you will have to click the link above to see the entire thing:

    I am willing to pay anyone $1,500 as a finders fee for anyone that can help find me a girlfriend. (I will give you a extra $1,000 as a bonus if this turns into marriage, I offer this extra bonus as I hope it will motivate you to find me a woman of great quality)

    I will not date an overweight girl
    I will not date a black girl
    I do not like glasses on a girl
    I will not date a girl that does not have a job
    I do not like tattoos on a woman
    I do not like gamblers
    I do not like strippers
    I will not date a girl that has had a threesome
    I will not date a girl if she is still friends with an ex
    I do not want a girlfriend that has breast implants
    I have a very high sex drive

I hope you enjoy growing old totally alone, dude, or that you like paying for sex.

His list is actually way worse than you see above, because he gets into nit pickier details under each main point. It’s fairly ridiculous.

Oddly enough, this selfish, entitled man also has this on his list of wants:

    I will not date a selfish woman. I do not like selfish women at all.

From his site:

    I prefer a woman that has never had children, because having kids does ruin a womans body often times.

    They end up with stretch marks.

    And also sometimes it makes their vagina looser, and I don’t care how many kegel exercises a woman does, after she has 2 or 3 eight to ten pound babies, you can’t tell me it’s going to be 100% as tight as it ever was!

    Plus, what’s even worse than all of that, is sometimes during childbirth the lips/vulva of a woman get torn and they never look the same as the did originally even after they heal, that’s why some women even get cosmetic reconstructive surgery to their vulvas after childbirth to try and regain their original appearance.

-I don’t even know what to say about that.

He apparently works as a photographer (at least someone on another site said this is the guy’s photography page):

(Link): Lonely, entitled, too judgemental and picky about women Single Guy’s Photography page
-by the way, guys like him are single because they are selfish, entitled, and unrealistic.

They are not single “because of feminism” – I’m not saying that is necessarily true of this Romeo guy, but a lot of guys who have a difficult time getting girlfriends often blame feminism (see (Link): Christian Males Blaming their Unwanted Protracted Singleness on Feminism – They have the wrong target)

I’m fine with singles of either gender having preferences (including regarding physical appearances of people they’d like to date), but when your list of preferences is twenty feet long and some of it is sexist or hypocritical, er, no.

However, the people in the Jezebel comments are off base by saying anyone who says “I like all music except for rap” is racist.

You got it: I am not racist but don’t like most rap. I also dislike most heavy metal and country music that is too hick-i-fied. Some country is okay, but some of it is annoying.

Said a commentator on the Jezebel page about this guy:

    Oh, and you missed something that another commenter pointed out: he did an AMA on Reddit.

    in his AMA, he explains that the reason he would never date a woman who had been with a Black man is because he considers it “ALMOST the same thing as beastiality, because black people look like apes, monkeys and gorillas.”

Several people have suggested that he’s trolling people, and this is all a publicity stunt to get attention.

Some also say that he posts to PUA type threads on reddit. Figures. He does give off that kind of vibe.

October 10, 2013 update at Jezebel:

New developments about this sexist, weirdo, nit picky guy, hosted on the Jezebel site – this weirdo has been sending gross texts to women:

(Link to Jezebel page): [Update] Inevitably Disgusting Sexts From the Racist ‘Sleepless in Austin’ Dude

Related posts this blog

(Link): Nice Guys: Scourge of the Single Woman

(Link): Blogs by Single Women Who Discuss the Weirdos, Perverts and Losers Who Contact Them on Dating Sites