Celibate Christian Woman Asks Christian Host Why God Will Not Send Her a Husband

Celibate Christian Woman Asks Christian Host Why God Will Not Send Her a Husband

A couple of days ago, I saw this episode of The 700 Club.

A celibate Christian woman wrote Pat Robertson this question –

And her question is one all Christians avoid: they just scream at a 20 year old today to MARRY NOW NOW NOW!

They have no advice and no encouragement to give any adult over 35 who wants to be married but still finds him or herself single.

The usual Christian response is just to shame this lady for supposedly not having done enough to marry when younger, in spite of not knowing her background, or what she did to try to marry – Christians just arrogantly ASSUME if you are not married past a certain age, it is all your fault, and there were no mitigating circumstances.

So here’s her question to Pat, host of The 700 Club:

  • Dear Pat,
  • The Bible says that it’s better to marry than to burn with lust, but what about someone like me who can’t find someone to marry?

Continue reading “Celibate Christian Woman Asks Christian Host Why God Will Not Send Her a Husband”

Pat Robertson Feigns Ignorance At Allegations He’s Been Insensitive Towards Older Single Christian Women Who Cannot Find Marriage Partners

Pat Robertson Feigns Ignorance At Allegations He’s Been Insensitive Towards Older Single Christian Women Who Cannot Find Marriage Partners

So some lady who is an older single Christian woman writes in to Pat Robertson’s show to ask him why he is so hard on older single women.

I don’t know about her, but in my own post here, by “older” I am referring to women over the age of 35, not only or necessarily senior citizens.

You can see and hear her question for yourself here, on CBN’s / 700 Club’s site:

(Link):  Lack Of Eligible Christian Prospects

On You Tube:

(Link):  Bring It On-Line: Lack of Eligible Christian Prospects

In answering that question, Robertson claims he doesn’t know what she’s talking about. He does not feel he has been horrible or rude towards older single women. But he has.

I think she’s referring to previous episodes such as:

Then we have other incidents of Robertson victim-blaming women, such as:

Some of Robertson’s attitudes towards women, especially older single women (or ones who are divorced) are sometimes sexist and victim-blaming.

In regards to today’s broadcast, which again, can be viewed here,

(Link):  Lack Of Eligible Christian Prospects

In his reply to this particular woman, Robertson keeps referring to single women as “widows”.

Hey, Pat, there are boat loads full of Christian women ages 30 and up WHO HAVE NEVER MARRIED, and some might be DIVORCED. So why do you keep assuming all women who have a hard time getting a man to marry are WIDOWS?

EQUALLY YOKED TEACHING

Robertson coaches this woman that the Bible says Christian single women should not marry unbelievers.

Please do a search on my blog for the phrases or tags “equally yoked” or “unequally yoked.” Please disregard Robertson’s quotation of the Bible about Paul’s comments about widows should only marry other Christians or stay single.

Whether you are widowed, divorced, or never married, you will never, ever get married if you keep holding out for a Christian spouse.

NON CHRISTIANS SOMETIMES MAKE BETTER SPOUSES

Just a couple of weeks ago, I was reading another testimony by a Christian woman who was married once before, to a Christian, but her Christian husband was a louse and a jerk, so she divorced him. She got remarried, and this time to an atheist.

She was telling the people in this online conversation I was reading that her atheist husband displays more of the (to use Christian jargon here) “fruits of the Spirit” – he is more loving, gentle, attentive, giving, and supportive and so on – than her so-called Christian husband ever was.

Ladies, I know it’s tough, especially if you are still a serious Christian who is dead set on following the Bible and want to honor God, obey God, and your understanding of the Bible, but the sad reality is you are not going to marry, and not by the time you are 30 or 35 if you keep having faith, praying, and hoping God will send you a Christian spouse, or if you keep showing up to churches every week hoping to bump into a Christian Mr. Right.

I’m not saying you are guaranteed a spouse if you jettison typical Christian approaches or targeting Christian men to marry, but I think your odds of marrying may likely increase if you stop chasing after only one very narrow and elusive sub-set of men: adult, single Christian men.

If you start including atheists, agnostics, Jewish guys, etc, into consideration as potential husbands, you are probably more likely to get more dates and eventually marry.

I think the biggest criteria you have to consider is character – is the guy loving towards you, does he treat you well, does he support you and your goals in life, etc? And not, “Is he a Baptist” or “Is he a Jesus believer” or “does he attend a conservative Christian church weekly.”

ON THE LONELY OR SINGLES BEING PUT INTO FAMILIES

As far as single people being alone because they don’t have a spouse, Robertson says God puts lonely single people in families, which is really a sh*tload of garbage.

Using myself as an example:

Ever since my mother died years ago, I’ve not been “put in a family.” I prayed for a few years for a friend or two, or someone to go to, but God has not answered that prayer. I’m still stumbling along alone.

I tried attending churches, but church people either shamed me or lectured me to coming for them with my emotional pain and needs – despite the fact the Bible tells Christians to “weep with those who weep.”

My actual family – I have some siblings and a father, and some extended family – they are totally unsupportive. Some yell at me, shame me for asking for help. I’ve not had anyone to turn to. So no, Pat, God does not put the single or the hurting or the lonely “in families.”

SATAN AS A FATHER IN LAW

Robertson also quotes Billy Graham’s old chestnut (I swear I’ve heard this a million times since I was a kid), that “the Christian who marries a Non-Christian has Satan for a father- in- law.”

When I was younger, that observation seemed somewhat wise to me.

Now that I’m older, I think it’s rather condescending, especially in light of the tons of examples I’ve seen in divorce forums by Christian women who said their church-going Christian husband had many affairs on them, turned out to be a pedophile, or was emotionally or physically abusive.

Don’t forget (Link): this list I have of Christian married men who molest kids or who beat their wives.

And again, I’ve seen plenty of Christian women who were previously married to jerk Christian men who then went to marry Non-Christians who say their Non Christian husband is way more considerate and kind to them than their Christian husband ever was. I no longer put any stock in the “be equally yoked” teaching.

As far as Billy Graham’s comment that “the Christian who marries a Non-Christian has Satan for a father in law,” some Christians marry Christian men who are Satan. They end up having to divorce him (the jerk Christian man) to get peace and safety.

Anyway, Robertson has in fact, in previous episodes, been rather insensitive, blaming, or sexist towards older, never married single women.

(Link):  Bring It On-Line: Lack of Eligible Christian Prospects

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Related Posts:

(Link): Pat Robertson’s Incredibly Insensitive Advice to Gail the Unmarried Woman 

(Link): 60 Year Old, Never- Married Woman Asks Christian TV Host Pat Robertson If Some Are Just Not Meant to Marry

(Link): Pat Robertson Says 44 Year old Never Married Woman Who Wants Marriage is “Desperate”

(Link): Cathy The Single Woman Asks Pat Robertson Why God Has Not Replied to Her Prayers for Years to Send Her a Spouse

(Link): Cathy The Single Woman Asks Pat Robertson Why God Has Not Replied to Her Prayers for Years to Send Her a Spouse

(Link):  Prayer and The 700 Club  – Some Observations and Suggestions

(Link):  Women: Stop Asking Pat Robertson For Romantic Relationship Advice – Whether You Are Divorced or Single  – Pat Robertson Replies to Letter from Four Time Divorced Woman Who Wants to Know If God Will Send Her a Non-Abusive Husband

(Link):  Christian TV Show Pat Robertson Says Wives Who Want Emotional Support from a Husband Are Immature and Should Not Expect Emotional Support

(Link): Celibate Christian Woman Asks Christian Host (Pat Robertson) Why God Will Not Send Her a Husband

(Link):  Why are Working Women Starting to Unplug from Their Churches? by Sandra Crawford Williamson (Also discusses never married adult women)

(Link): The Irrelevancy To Single or Childless or Childfree Christian Women of Biblical Gender Complementarian Roles / Biblical Womanhood Teachings

(Link): If the Family Is Central, Christ Isn’t

(Link):  More Women Are Leaving Behind Religious Identities For Something More Spiritual

(Link): Lies The Church Tells Single Women (by Sue Bohlin)

(Link): Are Marriage and Family A Woman’s Highest Calling? by Marcia Wolf – and other links that address the Christian fallacy that a woman’s most godly or only proper role is as wife and mother

(Link):  The Masculinity Myth: The Real Reason Men Don’t Go to Church by the Evangelical Pulpit

(Link):  Southern Baptist’s New Sexist “Biblical Woman” Site – Attitudes in Total Face Palm of a Site One Reason Among Many This Unmarried and Childless Woman Is Saying Toodle-Oo to Christianity

(Link): Why Unmarried – Single Christians including MEN Should Be Concerned about the Gender Role Controversy

Idiot Christian Husband Claims He Cannot Stop Visiting Prostitutes

Idiot Christian Husband Claims He Cannot Stop Visiting Prostitutes

Some married Christian guy wrote in to Christian TV show “The 700 Club” to tell host Pat Robertson he’s been seeing hookers and cannot stop. He wants advice on how to stop. Of course, moron boy can stop any time he wants.

Let this be a lesson to you, single Christian ladies who want marriage:

Christians will tell you that you can only be married to another Christian (they base this on only one or two Bible verses that are open to interpretation), but even if the Bible did teach this be equally yoked crap, if you want marriage, you may have to marry a Non Christian because Christian females out number the males. Other than that, some Christian men are pigs.

Here you have a guy who says he’s a Christian, but he regularly visits hookers, and I think he said he’s been doing so for years.

You, single Christian woman, are just as well off marrying a Non-Christian man, because the Non Christian man just may live a cleaner life style than a Christian one. You may find a Non Christian husband who would not even dream of seeing a hooker.

I also wonder what this sort of story says about God.

If the God of the Bible exists, why would he permit well meaning, devout, sincere Christian women to end up marrying abusive men, or perverts, like this one, who visits hookers?

If this man’s wife is anything like I was growing up, she probably prayed daily for years that God send her a Christian Mr. Right who would be a kind-hearted, decent guy. I can bet you dollars to doughnuts she did not pray, “Dear Lord, one day, please send me a Christian husband who will cheat on me, and by using prostitutes.”

No, she probably petitioned God for a clean cut guy who has decent morals. So why on earth did God send this woman a man who is a serial cheater?

God is not keeping up his end of the promise, for Jesus said God will only send “good gifts” to his children. Who among you reading this thinks that a serial cheater is a “good gift?” Me neither.

To refresh your memory, from Matthew 7:

  • Or if he [your child] asks for a fish, he [the parent] will not give him a snake, will he? 11 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

So what is the point in praying to God, or relying on him to meet needs?

God has utterly failed the wife this guy is married to, just as he has failed the many Christian women I have read about in books and other blogs who had to divorce their abusive Christian husbands.

Let this be another example as well that marriage or parenthood do not make a person more godly or mature.

Many Christians teach that singles are immature or are sexual perverts, and teach that marriage is necessary to make a person mature or ethical. Clearly, marriage or parenthood do not make anyone more mature, godly, or loving, since we have a Christian married man (who I think is a father too), who uses hookers.

The man’s letter is the 3rd or 4th one on this video:

(Link): 700 Club Video: Christian Married Man Uses Prostitutes – You Tube

(Link):  Bring It On-Line: Existence In Heaven / Married Christian Man Visits Hookers – hosted on 700 Club site

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Related Posts:

(Link): Forget About Being Equally Yoked: “My Abusive Christian Marriage”

(Link): Update on Christian Rapist Man Who Used Christian Mingle Site To Pick His Victims (he liked to discuss Jesus and the Bible with them before raping them – other details in update) Equally Yoked Teaching IS A FARCE

(Link): On Prayer and Christ’s Comment to Grant You Anything You Ask in His Name

(Link):  Blaming the Christian for His or Her Own Problem or Unanswered Prayer / Christian Codependency

(Link):  Depressing Testimony: “I Was A Stripper but Jesus Sent Me A Great Christian Husband”

(Link):   Shocking Porn ‘Epidemic’ Stats Reveal Details About Christian Consumption (2014 Study) / Nearly Two-Thirds of Christian Men View Porn Monthly; They Are Watching It at Same Rate as Secular Men, Says Study – Christian Single Women: More Proof “Be Equally Yoked” Teachings Are Pointless

(Link):  Florida Youth Pastor Is Behind Bars After Child Porn Discovery – Be Equally Yoked: What A Joke

(Link): Life in prison for Satanist who dismembered and ate mother-of-three after taking her back to his house for sex – The Flip Side to Be Equally Yoked

(Link): Conservative Jews question notions on dating, marrying only Jews

(Link): Pro Ball Player Convicted for Kid Diddling Three Kids Claims to be an Outstanding Christian (and he’s married with a kid of his own) – again, why should Christian single gals limit themselves to only marrying Christian men? The Whole “Being Yoked Equally” thing is irrelevant and unduly limiting for singles

Christians Teaching That All Sexual Sins Are Equal – Thoughts and Reflections

Christians Teaching That All Sexual Sins Are Equal – Thoughts and Reflections

I found out that Janet Mefferd, (Christian personality – she had her own radio program until April 2015) – wrote this the other day, or today:

(Link):   Predators, Dangerous Deviants & J.D. Hall by Janet Mefferd

Here are a few excerpts:

  • You know the story by now, so I won’t rehash it. But on social media, I’ve been quite clear about my position on this rallying cry of:
  • Don’t judge Josh! He’s forgiven! Aren’t we all sinners? There but for the grace of God go I!”
  • To this simplistic mentality, I have said: “There’s more to this than just that.” Josh Duggar may have been forgiven by God, but he also got away with his sex crimes at the civil level. Read the online news reports for more on how that happened.
  • And a truly repentant sinner both repents before God and accepts the full legal consequences for any crimes he has committed, without equivocation, cover-up, excuse or carefully worded PR statements.
  • So again, I called for evangelicals to stop all this cheap-grace garbage and start addressing the problem of sexual abuse in our circles with more screening, more reporting and more compassion for the victims.
  • Now in airing my views on Josh Duggar out on social media, I apparently made some people mad. Par for the course; I am used to it. But soon, the barbs moved in a direction that really shocked me.
  • Some people actually started telling me that we’re all basically sexual predators at heart.
  • One follower informed me that “All 14-year-old boys want to molest girls.”
  • He went on to tell me, “We have all committed sexual assault, if only for a second, if only in the heart.”

Before I continue, I would like to say that no, I  personally have never, not once in my life, thought about, considered, or fantasized about raping or sexually assaulting another human being.

Me saying that I’ve never fantasized about sexually assaulting another person is not the same as claiming, “I am totally without sin and have never sinned.”

The Bible says that everyone sins and shows that they do so in their own way.

However, the Bible does not teach that all people are guilty of the same exact sorts of sins, or of every sin, or that all types sins are as equally severe as other types of sins.

I suppose the “Christians” saying these things – the ones claiming that everyone fantasizes about rape – must think they sound very pious, but they sound troubled and like lunatics. I do seriously think a lot of them probably need to visit mental health professionals.

You can visit that page ((Link):  Predators, Dangerous Deviants & J.D. Hall by Janet Mefferd) to get a better, more thorough idea of what’s going on, but in a nut shell, we have examples of Christians – and there are a lot of them, ever since the  (link): Duggar story and (link): Village Church story broke – who equate all sins.

As of late, on social media and on blogs, you can find some Christians saying off-the-wall things, such as, all Christian men think about rape, fantasize about raping women.

Continue reading “Christians Teaching That All Sexual Sins Are Equal – Thoughts and Reflections”

It’s Almost Always “Mary” on The 700 Club Show – What Is Up With That?

It’s Almost Always “Mary” on The 700 Club Show

I watch The 700 Club TV almost every single day. I don’t know why. I just do.

There’s this part on the show where Pat Robertson and his co-host will pray for people in the audience.

Pat Robertson will sometimes call the person by name.

He might say, “And Hank… there is a ‘Hank’ out there asking for a healing from cancer.”

I’ve noticed that almost any time Robertson prays for a woman or a girl, he almost always says her name is “Mary” (or occasionally “Marie” or “Maria”), but it’s almost always “Mary.”

Today’s show was no exception.

When he prayed for someone in the audience, he said something like, “There is a five year old girl watching, I think her name is Mary, and she is upset that blah blah blah and is praying that God will help her with yada yada yada….”

I stopped listening closely after he mentioned her name.

About a week ago, Robertson was praying for someone in the audience, this time, it was an adult woman.

I can’t remember what the prayer was about, if it was for a healing or financial help, or whatever, but he said, “And there’s a woman named Mary, and she is praying for blah blah…”

In the past few years, I’ve heard him use “Mary” as the name of the person on his show.

I realize that “Mary” is a popular name, or once was at some point, but it seems almost every time I watch this show and Robertson prays for a woman (or a girl), he always says her name is “Mary.”

What is up with that?

Why does he never direct the prayer to women or girls named

  • Hannah, Becky, Tiffany, Amber, Britney, Sandra, Julia, Roberta, Peg, Marge, Christine, Rosa, Teresa, Eva, Patricia, Gabriela, Susanna, Katie, Robin, Heather, Sam, Nicole, Linda, Jackie, Bonnie, Edith, Ellen, Monica, Paige, Lois, Jill, Erin, Alicia, Geraldine, Clara, Rhonda, Gail, Wanda, Lisa, Gloria, Joyce, Ruth, Janet, Kathleen, Amy, Melissa, Brenda,

and I could go on and on?

Then you have more unusual names, like parents naming their daughters “Nutella” or “Shanequa.”

There are other names besides “Mary.” But Robertson almost always goes for “Mary” at prayer time on his show.

Christian Host Pat Robertson Blames, Shames Woman Who Was Laid Off from Her Job (Post Updated)

Pat Robertson Blames, Shames Woman Who Was Laid Off from Employment

! POST UPDATED BELOW !

On today’s episode of Pat Robertson’s 700 Club show, a woman wrote in saying she was laid off from one job, then a second one.

The woman said she feels that God sent her Job 2, but she doesn’t understand why God would send her something, only to yank it away. She asked Robertson why would God remove something he seemingly gave her to start with? (If I can find the video to this, I will add it to this post later.)

True to form, as Robertson’s standard operating procedure is to Blame the Victim, depending on the topic (see links bottom of this post for such examples), he told this woman she was laid off from her job due to her own lousy job performance and to stop blaming God for this. The thing is, the woman did not mention the particulars of her lay off (so far as I can remember. I don’t think it was mentioned.)

We have no idea WHY she was laid off, and neither does Robertson.

Robertson just ASSUMED negative things about this woman’s job performance. Sometimes companies lay off workers because the company is in a bind, below regular profits, or they decide to base operations in another nation, as that is cheaper.

There are any number of reasons why someone may be laid off from a job, and none of those reasons have anything to do with the person’s job performance.

Shame, shame on Pat Robertson for beating up on this woman who wrote in about this.

She is likely worried about making her mortgage payment or rent, or buying grocereries, and she’s wondering where God is, why has God let her down… here she is probably hurting, confused, afraid, and Robertson just bashed her and told her to brush up on her job skills. What a heartless jerk he was about this.

He is also missing the mark in that the woman was not looking for practical job tips, but she seems to be hurt that God doesn’t care about her. She wants to know why God has let her down – she’s in a spiritual funk, she isn’t needing resume’ advice at this time.

Time for CBN / 700 Club to kick the 80-something Robertson off the show and have his more tactful, sensitive son Gordon take over hosting duties.

I also find it very hypocritical that a man who makes his millions begging for money off gullible TV viewers is biting some woman viewer’s head off over her supposed job performance.

Also: (Link):  ‘Mission Congo’ Alleges Pat Robertson Exploited Post-Genocide Rwandans For Diamonds

  • The documentary ‘Mission Congo,’ which premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival, alleges that televangelist Pat Robertson’s charity in Zaire to help refugees that fled from post-genocide Rwanda, Operation Blessing, really served as an elaborate front for his diamond mining operation. Marlow Stern reports.

Anyway, I will edit this post to add a link to the video where Robertson shames and blames that lady who was laid off from her job, assuming I can find the video. These videos are usually either posted on You Tube or on the 700 Club’s site.

Robertson is such an insensitive jerk. I am not a fan of the “tip toe around people feelings” types, but I don’t like the Pat Robertson or Mark Driscoll extremes, either.

Edit. This might be the Bring It On segment where the woman wrote Robertson. Edit 2. Yes, this is the correct video.

NOV 20 2014 UPDATE

At some point after I uploaded the video below, the people at The 700 Club replaced the video!

That’s right. The original version had Robertson telling the woman she must be performing horribly at her job to be laid off twice.

Well, in the replaced video (which is below – they removed the original one), supposedly, the same woman wrote back to clarify her situation. She says she is 52 years old and was laid off by her employer because she reported to them that a male co-worker was harassing her on the job.

Armed with that information, to paraphrase him, Robertson says he is now sympathetic with this woman and thinks she should consider suing them because she was terminated unfairly.

At no time, though, did he reply to the woman’s original question: why did God send her this second job only for God to permit the job to be taken away? Robertson never did answer that.

The first time he attempted to reply to that inquiry, he rudely and insensitively assumed the woman was at fault for having been laid off.

I also find it telling that this Christian television program edits or removes original videos and replaces them without telling viewers – I only caught this substitution because I went back and re-watched the video.

I do not see a notice on the page that the original video was removed, edited, and/or replaced. In my opinion, it’s a bit dishonest, in a way, for a Christian show to fiddle with, edit, or remove an original video after the fact – and not inform people that this was done.

The letter from the laid off woman is the second or third letter in the video

(which has now been replaced with new video, supposedly from the same woman who wrote the original letter – the original, insensitive commentary by Robertson has been removed, because I can only assume the folks at 700 Club realized he looked rude.

I tweeted about this video a few days ago, I provided a link to this post on Twitter, several times on Twitter over 3 or 4 days, using the Pat Robertson and 700 Club hash tags. Perhaps someone from their show saw this post and decided to rework the video?):

(Link): You Tube Video / Pat Robertson responds to letter woman laid off from job – video has been altered – they removed original content and replaced it to make Robertson look like less of an insensitive jackass

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Related:

(Link): Don’t Be Pat Robertson: Learn That, Yes, Abusive Jerks Masquerade As Nice Guys Until They Marry the Woman Then They Abuse Her – Pat Blames A Woman Again For Marrying A Jerk

(Link): Pat Robertson Says 44 Year old Never Married Woman Who Wants Marriage is “Desperate”

(Link): Christian Host Pat Robertson Tells Christian Woman Who Married Christian Man Who Turned Out to Be Totally Unethical That She has Discernment of a Slug – Single Women: toss Be Equally Yoked teaching in the trash can

(Link): Pat Robertson says ‘Virginity Has Nothing To Do With Marriage’ and Says (Paraphrasing) ‘Virginity Was Fine For Mary But Not Applicable For Any Other Christians’

(Link): Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)

(Link): Pat Robertson: (basically): Pre Marital Sex is Okay (or to be totally expected) Because People are “Sexual Beings”

Sexualizing Modesty – Christians Defeating the Purpose

Sexualizing Modesty – Christians Defeating the Purpose

Before I get to the main heart of this post, here is a long introduction.

First of all, I think the modesty debate re-enforces one Christian and secular stereotype: that only men are visually oriented, and women are not. That is, women are thought to hate sex, or not be very interested in sex, and that women prefer “emotional bonding,” knitting tea cozies, and reading poetry, to sex.

The truth is, a lot of women (even Christian ones) are visually oriented and get “turned on” by looking at a good looking man (especially if he’s in great shape and shirtless).

These modesty teachings almost never, ever take into account that women have sex drives, sexual desires, and sexual preferences – and I get so tired of that aspect of it. These modesty teachings only take into account that MEN are sexual and have sex drives and so forth.

I am really not totally on either side of this modesty debate.

Concerning this issue, like several others I regularly discuss on this blog, I’m neither fully on Team (secular or Christian) Feminist, nor am I fully on Team Conservative (or Team Christian).

My views would probably hack off people on either side of the debate, both the anti-modesty types and the pro-modesty ones.

I think both sides make some really good points on some things, but both sides also get a few things wrong.

Where I might agree with the anti-modesty guys on “point X”, I might find that the pro-modesty guys are right about “point Z.”

Where I Agree with the Pro Modesty Side

As far as the pro-modesty side is concerned, I do agree that some teen-aged girls and women dress slutty, and this is not good, right, or cool.

I’m tired of secular feminists shaming pro-modesty types and trying to intimidate them into silence by screaming “slut shamer” at them, or about them, in every other tweet or blog post.

There are some women who do in fact want to use their looks, body, or sexuality to get attention. I saw these sorts of girls and women when I was a teen, in my 20s, and older. We’ve all known them.

They’re not satisfied wearing plain old blue jeans with a normal shirt, no.

They have to wear mini-skirts with fish net stockings and stiletto heels, or daisy duke shorts with their ass cheeks barely hanging out.

There may be a minority of women who dress that way because they genuinely find such fashions cute or flattering on their figure, but you damn well know the majority are wearing such ensembles to look “hot,” and at that, because they want male attention.

Personally, I find that look -the barely dressed, or stilettos with mini skirts types of sexy looks – rather trampy, and I think most women who dress like that are in fact seeking sexual attention from males – and no, I’m not fine with that.

I don’t have to agree with other women’s choices all the time in clothing or how they choose to attract men.

    Side Note:

    (Seriously, this is one odd-ball aspect I’ve seen crop up on secular feminist blogs frequently: by sheer fact that I am a woman, I am expected to always agree with other women and all their choices and political and moral views all. the. time, and to deny my own personal, political, or religious values and opinions in the process.

    Yes, just because I am a woman, and they are a woman. Me supporting all other women all the time on every topic under the sun (and it seems especially true in regards to sexuality, modesty, sex, abortion, and birth control) is considered obligatory, all because I’m a woman too.

    I don’t support all males all the time on every topic, so why would I be expected to support all women all the time, about everything? It makes no sense.)

Some women do in fact make a conscious choice to showcase their sexuality (e.g., by wearing tiny skirts and so forth) because their self esteem and self respect is so low, they don’t think they have anything else to offer a man, or they don’t think they have anything to offer the world but their looks, body, and sexuality.

Or, some women who dress in revealing clothing may assume 99% of men are indeed visually-oriented cave men, sexist swine, who only want “one thing” from women, and if these women are in the market to pick up a boyfriend, yes, they will don the fishnet stockings and mini-skirts.

There is a difference between Taylor Swift and Miley Cyrus. There is a difference between Madonna Ciccone and Whitney Houston.

Some women do in fact choose character, talent, and/or brains to make their place in the world, to gain success, or to get attention, while other women opt to go the sexual and titillation route (which may include dressing in a provocative manner).

And we (women) all know it. We know this is true. But a lot of the anti-modesty squad I see online seems to deny this.

Or, maybe they realize it, and their argument is they feel a Miley Cyrus should be able to act or dress like a harlot in public and nobody should make any negative judgments what-so-ever about it.

I’ve seen secular feminist blogs whose writers get upset with companies who objectify women by portraying women as sexy things in advertisements, or with companies who make too much out of a woman’s looks…

But these same feminists turn around, and quite inconsistently, feel it’s okay for a woman to objectify herself – and nobody is supposed to say anything critical about it (because that would be “slut shaming”).

But to me, that is a double standard.

Where I Agree With the Anti Modesty Side

Too often, as anti-modesty advocates point out, religious “modesty teachings” or modesty propaganda, tell girls and women they ought to dress in a conservative manner so as not to cause men to stumble.

The fact is that men are responsible for their behavior. It does not matter if a woman is fully clothed or wearing a thong bikini in the presence of a man, it is up to a man to control his thoughts and actions.

Continue reading “Sexualizing Modesty – Christians Defeating the Purpose”

Christian Host Pat Robertson Tells Christian Woman Who Married Christian Man Who Turned Out to Be Totally Unethical That She has Discernment of a Slug – Single Women: toss Be Equally Yoked teaching in the trash can

Christian Host Pat Robertson Tells Christian Woman Who Married Christian Man Who Turned Out to Be Totally Unethical That She has Discernment of a Slug – Single Women: toss Be Equally Yoked teaching in the trash can

One fallacy about marriage that sometimes pops up by Christians is that you have to obtain sinless perfection before God will gift you with a spouse.

However, the man below managed to get married, even though he says he is a Christian and he steals from people. He obviously is not godly or perfect, yet he still managed to get a spouse.

A woman wrote a question to the show The 700 Club asking Christian host Pat Robertson if she is morally bound to stay married to a man who “presented himself as a Christian” but who has had four DUIs (driving while intoxicated), went on to swindle a church out of $10,000 and who did a bunch of other bad things.

I usually embed the video or link to the video of Robertson responding to these questions but this particular video has not been uploaded to the 700 Club’s Bring It On page yet. ((Link): Bring It On page below.)

(Edit. This might be the video:
(Link): Bring It On – Pat Robertson Answers Questions – also, it’s embedded )

In his reply, Robertson talks about “fraud of inducement” but opened his comments by insulting the woman and telling her she has the “discernment of a slug.” He also calls her “crazy” and “blind.”

As I’ve said time and before on this blog, a lot of Christians unnecessarily limit a Christian single woman’s dating pool, and hence chances of marriage, by quoting “be not yoked” at her, as if to say they think this verse teaches that a Christian may only marry another Christian.

As I’ve also said, I see no point in a Christian woman limiting herself to dating only Christian males, when I have example after example on this blog of news stories or reports of Christian men who turn out to use prostitutes, they turn out to be pedophiles, serial rapists, and killers (such as at this link)

On top of that, there are online communities, support groups, for Christian women who explain they had to divorce their Christian husband because he was physically or verbally abusive, or, he was a serial cheater (adulterer).

I have said before an unmarried Christian woman needs to cast off the “be not yoked, only marry another Christian” mantra to judge a man based on his character.

A man claiming to be a Christian, a man going to church every week, a man reading his Bible daily, and so on, is not a guarantee that he will treat a woman well.

A man can be a professing Christian, daily Bible reader, and faithful church attendee, and still be an abusive jerk or dirt ball.

You need to look past what claims a man makes about his religious beliefs and judge him based on his character.

In addition, you need to look at behavior, not what the guy says about himself.

What gets my goat about this woman’s letter to the Christian 700 Club show, which is hosted by Robertson, is that despite following the Christian propaganda to marry only another Christian – someone who claims to be Christian – she gets insulted and mocked by another Christian, in this case, Robertson, for it.

Robertson tells this woman she must “have the discernment of a slug” for marrying this guy.

This Christian woman follows the common Christian idea that a Christian should only marry another Christian, and when she does, and the guy turns out to be a lying thief scum bag, she gets raked over the coals by a Christian who ridicules her mate selection criteria, which was, I remind you, based on the “be not yoked to a Non-Christian” philosophy.

By the way, this is common. In my reading over the years about relationships, dating, and marriage, I have seen too many testimonies about how women married a guy who seemed caring and compassionate at first only to turn into an abusive rat after marriage.

Some abusive men are very crafty and cunning at hiding their controlling, abusive natures when dating a woman.

I don’t have the time to get into it here, but in books and blogs by counselors who are experts on abusive men, they explain that it is entirely possible for a woman to be blindsided by a man, not knowing he’s abusive until she’s deeper into the relationship, because a lot of abusive men do not become overly controlling and mean spirited until certain thresh holds have been reached in a relationship, and it differs from man to man. For some abusive men, that thresh hold is marriage.

They keep their loving mask on until marriage, where they toss it aside to reveal their true nature.

Go look at forums for Christian women who divorced their husbands.

Many of these ladies swear up and down that their husband was a born again believer who loved Jesus, read his Bible, “knew” his Bible well, and some of these men even worked as preachers. Yet, these men were still abusive towards their wives.

It’s just remarkable to me and another kind of fraud that in a day and age that so many adult, single Christian women who want marriage but find themselves single, that other Christians artificially limit their chances at marriage by telling them to cross all Non Christian males off the list, which can keep these ladies single indefinitely, but, if they do marry a self professing Christian, and he turns out to be an abusive, loser of a cad, they get shamed for it by Christian personalities.

Christian women are damned if they do by Christian culture and damned if they do not.

Edit.
Pat Robertson telling woman with troubled marriage she has discernment of a slug, embedded from You Tube (aired May 5, 2014)
The woman’s question is the second or third topic discussed by Roberston, after discussion of Islam, and a question about being married in a court vs being married in church:

Edit 2.
A couple days after I made this blog post, this other site ran this story:

(Link): Pat Robertson berates woman for ungodly husband: You have ‘the discernment of a slug’

    Televangelist Pat Robertson on Monday castigated a woman for marrying a man who later turned out not to be a “born again” Christian.

In a letter to The 700 Club, a viewer named Patty explained that she had “married a man who presented himself as a born again believer.”

But she later found out that he was not what he seemed.

“In the 7 years we have been together he has had 4 DUIs, been convicted of receiving stolen property, and recently deceived a ministry out of $15,000,” Patty wrote. “Am I morally bound to this marriage?”

“You must have been crazy or you must have been blinded to get into [that] relationship,” Robertson told the viewer. “He — quote — presented himself [as a born again Christian]. I mean, give me a break. You got about the discernment of a slug.”

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Related links:

(Link): Post with numerous examples of links to news stories about Christian married men who raped people, abused their wives, were drug addicts, etc

(Link): On Christians Marrying Non Christians -and- Unrealistic, Too Rigid Spouse Selection Lists by Christians

(Link):  Prayer and The 700 Club  – Some Observations and Suggestions

(Link):  Women: Stop Asking Pat Robertson For Romantic Relationship Advice – Whether You Are Divorced or Single  – Pat Robertson Replies to Letter from Four Time Divorced Woman Who Wants to Know If God Will Send Her a Non-Abusive Husband

(Link):  Christian TV Show Pat Robertson Says Wives Who Want Emotional Support from a Husband Are Immature and Should Not Expect Emotional Support

(Link): Forget About Being ‘Equally Yoked’ – Article: ‘My Abusive ‘Christian’ Marriage’

(Link): Gender Complementarian Advice to Single Women Who Desire Marriage Will Keep Them Single Forever / Re: Choosing A Spiritual Leader

(Link): Married Female Christian Blogger Whose Mate Hunting Criteria is Guaranteed to Keep Marriage Minded Single Christian Men Single Perpetually

(Link): Being Equally Yoked: Christian Columnist Dan Delzell Striving to Keep Christian Singles Single Forever

(Link): Males and Females Raped at Christian College, College Doesn’t Care – Equally Yoked is a Joke

(Link): Pastor charged in wife’s murder was headed to Europe to marry boyfriend, prosecutor says – Single Christian Ladies: Kick that Be Equally Yoked Teaching to the Curb!

(Link): Another Example of Why the Equally Yoked Teaching is A Joke for Single Christian Women : Baptist Preacher Arrested for Allegedly Fire Bombing Ex Girlfriend’s House While She Was In It

(Link): Obnoxious and Sexist Preacher Mark Driscoll Wants Christian Singles to Stay Single Indefinitely – And Even Though Unwanted, Prolonged Singleness has Been a Huge Issue For Christian Singles for A Couple Decades Now – Driscoll: ‘Christians should not marry pro choicers’

Jason the Christian’s Sexless Marriage – Christians promise hot regular steamy married sex but it isn’t true

Jason the Christian’s Sexless Marriage – Christians promise hot regular steamy married sex but it isn’t true

A guy named Jason, who I believe claims to be a Christian, wrote in to tell Pat Robertson, who is host of a TV show, that his wife flirts with him but they’ve only had sex a few times over the last year.

Robertson tells the guy maybe his wife has psychological problems or was abused as a girl. All that could be true, but maybe, and this never occurs to Christian men, maybe ol’ Jason is terrible at sex. Maybe he’s a selfish lover in the sack.

You can read / hear Jason’s question to Pat in the video below, but I think there are two or three questions from other people before Pat gets to Jason’s sexless marriage question.

(Link): Christian host Pat Robertson Answered Question about Christian guy’s Sexless Marriage, hosted on 700 Club’s site

Same video on You Tube:


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Related posts this blog:

(Link): Why Christians Need to Uphold Lifelong Celibacy as an Option for All Instead of Merely Pressuring All to Marry – vis a vis Sexless Marriages, Counselors Who Tell Marrieds that Having Affairs Can Help their Marriages

(Link): AARP post: How to Handle a Sexless Married Life – But Christians Promise You Great Hot Regular Married Sex

(Link):  Newlyweds Forced to Be Celibate After Bride Diagnosed With Cervical Cancer Just Days After Honeymoon

(Link): Married Woman Signing off as “Looking Ahead” Admits to Being in Sexless Marriage for TEN YEARS

(Link): Newlywed Husband Divorces His Wife Hours After the Ceremony Because She Was Too Busy Texting Her Friends to Have Sex on Their Wedding Night

(Link): More Married Couples Admit to Sexless Marriages (various articles) / Christians promise you great frequent sex if you wait until marriage, but the propaganda is not true

(Link): Wife Writes to Ask Amy About Her Sexless Marriage October 2013

(Link): Resident Christian Marriage Advice Writer at Christian Mag Admits Some Christian Marriages are Sexless

(Link): Her Marriage is Sexless While She Cares For Sick Elderly Father

(Link): Perverted Christian Married Couple Wants to “Wife Swap” (For Sex) With Other Christian Couple – Why Christians Need to Uphold Chastity / Celibacy For All People Even Married Couples Not Just Teens

(Link): Long Time Married Lady Wants to Know If She Can Have Affair Because Husband Has Not Been Spending Much Time With Her – Another example of why Christians need to teach that sexual purity is for all not just young singles

(Link): Getting Married Does Not Necessarily Guarantee Frequent Hot Satisfying Sexy Sex – Husband is Sexless for Eight Years (article)

(Link): On Marrying a Survivor of Childhood Sexual Abuse (article) discusses having a Sexless Marriage

(Link): Getting Married Does Not Necessarily Guarantee Frequent Hot Satisfying Sexy Sex / (also discussed): Gender and Sex Stereotypes (article)

(Link): When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men – and how the stereotype flipped

(Link): Italian married couple claims accident ruined their sex life, awarded $27,000 – Why Christians Need to Uphold Sexual Purity For All Not Only Young Unmarried People

(Link): I’m Afraid to Have Sex with My Husband – from E. Street – Her Sexless Marriage & She Is Visually Oriented, Prefers Hot, Young Studs

(Link): Long Time Married Lady Wants to Know If She Can Have Affair Because Husband Has Not Been Spending Much Time With Her – Another example of why Christians need to teach that sexual purity is for all not just young singles

Christian Host Pat Robertson: Adultery Will Send You To Hell But Pre-Marital Sex No Biggie

Christian Host Pat Robertson: Adultery Will Send You To Hell But Pre-Marital Sex No Biggie

This post is referring to (Link): this video

First, a few previous Pat Robertson related posts on this blog:

I watched “The 700 Club” today.

It is a TV show hosted by Christian personality Pat Robertson, where he spends part of the program answering viewer mail.

Some lady wrote in with a question about pre-marital sex, in regards to the Bible character Sampson.

The lady pointed out that the Bible mentions that Sampson had pre-martial sex (fornication) with a prostitute. “It seems out of line for a man dedicated to the lord,” she says. “Is this not breaking the Ten Commandments,” she asks?

Robertson says pre-marital sex is a sin, but he says only adultery was condemned in the Ten Commandments.

Robertson said God “allows such little sins, but he will not break covenant relationship” with a guy who commits fornication.

Then Robertson responded to a question by a married guy who has an “open marriage” (marriage where both hubby and wife agree to cheat).

Married Dude said he’s screwed around on his wife aplenty, but he feels a tad guilty because she has not screwed around on him (I’m paraphrasing his views).

Married Dude wants to know if God will send him to hell for this screwing around with chicks not his wife.

Robertson told the Open Marriage Guy that his arrangement is the same thing as adultery, that it is sin, but God will forgive him for this sin.

But Robertson does say before this that yes, this guy can and will go to hell for adultery, especially if he does not “give it up”.

I don’t think ol’ Pat is being consistent, here. He’s telling Guy A that “Sexual Sin X” can send him to Hell, but he tells Guy B that God will forgive him of “Sexual Sin Z.”

Pat Robertson seemed tougher on “Adultery Guy” than on “Fornication Guy” (vis a vis Sampson).

Robertson’s views seem to be that God is very forgiving of fornication but not so much adultery. Robertson seems to think adultery is worse or more sinful than pre-martial sex. At least that was my take on his commentary, which you can watch for yourself at the link at the top or in the embedded video below.

You can watch the video on You Tube (you will have to sit through un-related bits about Islam, a person who came from a New Age family, a question about gender reversed Bible versions, etc, before Pat talks about the Open Marriage stuff, etc.).

By the way, if this married couple agreed to an “open marriage,” that tells me that married sex is not some earth-shattering ordeal that keeps people from straying, as evangelical and other Christians often claim about married sex: obviously, married sex is not all that hot because so many married people sleep around on each other.

Just seems to me that Robertson is a bit tougher on adultery than he is on pre-marital sex:


Video URL:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHGjAmAV_90)
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Related posts:

(Link): Marriage Does Not Make People More Loving Mature Godly Ethical Caring or Responsible (One Stop Thread)

(Link): No Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity – Christians Attack and Criticize Virginity Sexual Purity Celibacy / Virginity Sexual Purity Not An Idol

(Link): Getting Married Does Not Necessarily Guarantee Frequent Hot Satisfying Sexy Sex / (also discussed): Gender and Sex Stereotypes (article)

(Link): Getting Married Does Not Necessarily Guarantee Frequent Hot Satisfying Sexy Sex – Husband is Sexless for Eight Years (article)

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re: Celibacy

(Link): Christian Early Marriage Position Advocates A Low View of Celibacy and Virginity and Adult Singleness – another example: Justin Deeter Blog about Early Marriage

Long Time Married Lady Wants to Know If She Can Have Affair Because Husband Has Not Been Spending Much Time With Her – Another example of why Christians need to teach that sexual purity is for all not just young singles

Long Time Married Lady Wants to Know If She Can Have Affair Because Husband Has Not Been Spending Much Time With Her – Another example of why Christians need to teach that sexual purity is for all not just young singles

This lady wrote to this Christian TV show host because she is considering having an affair because her husband of 20+ years has been neglecting her lately:

(Link): Video: Bring It On-Line: Absentee Husband (aired April 2, 2014)

This woman’s letter demonstrates that several Christian stereotypes are incorrect:

    1. women (and specifically married women) are not interested in sex (the reality is that a lot of women want to have sex and enjoy sex)

2. married people are more godly, mature, or sexually pure than adult singles (the reality is that married people are not better or more mature or godly than adult singles or childless/ childfree)

3. married sex is so awesome and earth shattering it can keep marrieds from straying or from wanting to stray


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Related posts:

(Link): Marriage Does Not Make People More Loving Mature Godly Ethical Caring or Responsible (One Stop Thread)

(Link): Perverted Christian Married Couple Wants to “Wife Swap” (For Sex) With Other Christian Couple – Why Christians Need to Uphold Chastity / Celibacy For All People Even Married Couples Not Just Teens

(Link): Newlywed Husband Divorces His Wife Hours After the Ceremony Because She Was Too Busy Texting Her Friends to Have Sex on Their Wedding Night

(Link): Why Christians Need to Uphold Lifelong Celibacy as an Option for All Instead of Merely Pressuring All to Marry – vis a vis Sexless Marriages, Counselors Who Tell Marrieds that Having Affairs Can Help their Marriages

(Link): New ‘Christian Swingers’ Dating Site Offers Faithful Couples Chance to ‘Hookup’

(Link): Christian Stereotypes About Female Sexuality : All Unmarried Women Are Supposedly Hyper Sexed Harlots – But All Married Ones are Supposedly Frigid or Totally Uninterested in Sex

(Link): Letter to Advice Columnist: Husband Upset That Wife Masturbates – Marriage Doesn’t Guarantee Hot Regular Sex For Both or Either Partner, Contra Usual Christian Claims

(Link): Groundbreaking News: Women Like Sex (part 1, 2) (articles)

(Link): Married Women Engage in Sexual Sin – and most men in denial particularly Christian conservatives

Perverted Christian Married Couple Wants to “Wife Swap” (For Sex) With Other Christian Couple – Why Christians Need to Uphold Chastity / Celibacy For All People Even Married Couples Not Just Teens

Perverted Christian Couple Wants to “Wife Swap” With Other Christian Couple

Oh no, married Christian couples and preachers, stop, stop, stop insisting that marriage makes people more godly or mature and makes people immune from sexual sin, when we have nonsense like this (video):

(Link): Question from Christian married viewer: My married Christian neighbors want to Wife Swap (for Sex) for the Night, How Do I Answer

Bring It On-Line:

Undefiled Marriage Bed

[Dear Pat Robertson, Christian host of TV show The 700 Club],

My wife and I have been happily married for seven years, but we have run into a problem.

I know the Bible says that “the marriage bed be undefiled,” but my next door neighbors who are also Christians want to wife-swap for an evening.

IS THIS IN LINE WITH WHAT GOD WANTS FOR OUR MARRIAGE?

AND HOW SHOULD I TALK TO MY NEIGHBOR ABOUT IT?”

[Reply from Pat Robertson]
Pat: YOU TELL YOUR NEIGHBOR, HAVING SEX WITH SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT YOUR WIFE IS CALLED ADULTERY, AND IT IS THE SEVENTH
COMMANDMENT, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.

AND TELL HIM, HE AND HIS WIFE, THEY MAY THINK THEY’RE SWINGERS, BUT THEY’RE SINNING AGAINST GOD.

THEY’RE ON THE WRONG TRACK. SAY NO, NO, NO. THREE EXCLAMATION POINTS.

Robertson’s reply for that is one of those rare times I agree with him: Robertson tells the guy who wrote in that is ADULTERY, and no, it’s not okay.

You see, this is yet another example of why Christians need to teach chastity / celibacy is for ALL people, including married ones, not just single kids under the age of 25.

Even married Christian people need to be reminded on occasion that sex is for MARRIAGE ONLY, as the Bible teaches, because some of these IDIOTS have affairs on their spouses, their counselors are telling them to spice up a boring sex life by taking a mistress, other perverted idiots believe “wife swapping” is acceptable behavior, etc etc.

I just wrote of this kind of thing the other day:
(Link): Elderly Widower Dude is a Slut Says Adult Daughter – Why Churches Need to Teach Celibacy Applies to Even Married People Not Just Under Age 25 Singles

See too:
(Link): Why Christians Need to Uphold Lifelong Celibacy as an Option for All Instead of Merely Pressuring All to Marry – vis a vis Sexless Marriages, Counselors Who Tell Marrieds that Having Affairs Can Help their Marriages

You can view the segment here:


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Related post this blog:

(Link):  Newlyweds Forced to Be Celibate After Bride Diagnosed With Cervical Cancer Just Days After Honeymoon

(Link): Marriage Does Not Make People More Loving Mature Godly Ethical Caring or Responsible (One Stop Thread)

(Link):  Sex and Alzheimer’s – Selfish, Perverted Husband Rapes His Alzheimer’s Wife

(Link): Christian Swingers: Body-building Christian Couple Advocates and Practices Wife Swapping – and the wife calls this lifestyle “pure”

(Link): New ‘Christian Swingers’ Dating Site Offers Faithful Couples Chance to ‘Hookup’

(Link): Jason the Christian’s Sexless Marriage – Christians promise hot regular steamy married sex but it isn’t true

Pat Robertson says ‘Virginity Has Nothing To Do With Marriage’ and Says (Paraphrasing) ‘Virginity Was Fine For Mary But Not Applicable For Any Other Christians’

Pat Robertson says ‘Virginity Has Nothing To Do With Marriage’ and Says (Paraphrasing) ‘Virginity Was Fine For Mary But Not Applicable For Any Other Christians’

This is the second or third time in the past year or so that Christian TV personality Pat Robertson has pretty much said that God or the Bible do not teach that Christians are to abstain from pre-marital sex.

Robertson tends to “gloss over” sexual sin committed by heterosexuals, as though it’s not a big deal, which makes it harder for hetero people who are still single and virgins in their 40s, such as me, to continue to hold on, to continue to find compelling reasons not to sleep around.

(But then, I’ve begun a slow drift away from the Christian faith the last couple years, so maybe some of this is not applicable to me, but it bothers me to see that it is impacting single people who are still squarely in the faith.)

I have noticed any time Robertson classifies homosexuality as sinful that left wing sites jump all over him, but they fall silent when he basically endorses hetero pre- marital sexual sin or writes it off as being a non-issue. (Nice double standard the liberals have there.)

I don’t see any Christian speakers or media personalities calling out Robertson on his anti- virginity views, and I have blogged about them before (like here: (Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”).

(Robertson also sometimes takes a lax view towards men who cheat on their wives, which is also troubling.)

You can watch / listen to the video under discussion in this post here:
(Link): ‘Bring It On’ – Robertson Answers Questions From Viewers – CBN site (broadcast Feb 11, 2014)
-That same video is also embedded at the bottom of this post, via You Tube-

The question (viewer letter) we are interested in for the purpose of this post is the third or fourth letter in the video.

The letter from the married woman to Robertson in the video reads:

    I met my husband in church at a time I was a virgin.

    He was divorced with two kids, having left his wife after she cheated on him. Within weeks, I was living with him and got pregnant by him.

    We have since married and have been together three years, but now I feel like I betrayed God because I didn’t marry a virgin, had pre-marital sex, and had a child out of wedlock.

    My husband and I get along great and never argue, but I feel like I should start over. Should I stay married, or leave him and become celibate?
    – Viewer

I notice that Pat gets these sorts of letters with regularity, about once every 3 – 4 months; someone will say they were a virgin but then slept around, or whatever, then married the guy, then want to know if God wants them to divorce the spouse.

How can people be so ignorant and naive? Two wrongs don’t make a right.

While I don’t believe that the Bible teaches a “permanence” view of marriage (e.g., I don’t believe the Bible teaches an abused woman has to stay with her abusive spouse forever), it does hold marriage in pretty high esteem – which means, you would be heaping sin on top of sin to divorce the dude just because you had pre-marital sex with him.

Anyway, Robertson’s response to her was to diminish virginity, as is his habit when people write to him with questions about virginity and celibacy. Why is Robertson not being called out for this unbiblical position? Why are other Christians remaining silent?

Here is Robertson’s reply (this is my paraphrase, it may not be word- for- word; the site does not provide a transcript, so I’m typing this as I am listening to the audio; emphasis added by me to the text):

    [Pat Robertson responding to woman’s letter]

    Wow. You know it’s amazing this guy is a Christian yet… this man, he’s married and is seducing a woman two weeks after he met her, he’s having sex with her. Within two weeks? [Or weeks?]

    He must have really put the move on you really heavy. You must have been pretty willing. All right, but.

    But the subject, the fact that you weren’t a virgin or he wasn’t a virgin has nothing to do with marriage.

    There’s nothing in the Bible that disqualifies somebody, ‘well you gotta marry and you weren’t a virgin.’ I don’t know anything in the Bible that talks about that.

    That was fine for Mary, she was a virgin, but she was… what was in her was conceived by the Holy Spirit of God. All right.

    So you’ve been married, you have a child, you have what is apparently a Christian husband, the reason for his divorce was infidelity of the spouse, so…. that’s okay; and I see no reason why you should not live a happy married life.

    You’re doing OK together, so rejoice in what you have. Don’t be coming up with all these spurious problems.

    I mean you now… so far, so good.

    You made some mistakes, you did something wrong, but you have rectified that and now you’re living according to God’s law, so enjoy.

    Forgive yourself, God will forgive you, it’s over, no you don’t want a divorce and start all over again, that makes no sense at all.

True enough, the Bible does not say that non-virgins are not “marriage material,” but, the Bible does make a case for virginity in being the expectation for singles, in passages that discuss that the marriage bed should not be defiled, the penalty for fornication in the Old Testament was stoning to death (which indicates God is not fine with people having pre-marital sex, only that the penalty changed in the New Testament), and the Bible says if one cannot control one’s sexual passions, one should try to get married – which suggests having sex prior to marriage is frowned upon by God.

In other words, the Bible may not declare “non virgins are not marriagable” but the assumption still seems to be, “followers of Christ are to remain virgins until marriage.”

It’s rather disingenuous, therefore, for Robertson and other Christians to teach, in a round about way, that virginity is not a “requirement” for marriage for Christians – because it still is.

Fornication is a forgivable sin, yes, but still remains a sin never-the-less, and no matter how many fornicators feel shamed, guilty, or dirty over that knowledge.

The Bible may not “disqualify” a fornicator from marriage and forbid virgins from marrying non-virgins, but the Bible still teaches that Christians are to remain virgins until marriage.

Your shame or guilt feelings do not negate that the Bible classifies some behavior as sinful.

Perhaps one of the oddest views Robertson spouts in the video is where he seems to imply that virginity- until- marriage was a quality and discipline and state of being which God expected only of Mary (who was betrothed to Joseph) and no other human before or since; that is simply not biblical.

There ARE Christian adults, who are over 30, 40, and older, who are still virgins, who have never married – there are also some adult, divorced Christians who are staying celibate after they have divorced.

How do you suppose it makes such Christians feel to be surrounded by a Christian culture that just shrugs its shoulders about pre- or extra-marital sex, as if fornication is not a sin, and God winks at it?

I’ll tell you, and as I said above: it makes it harder and harder for adult celibates to hang in there.

What is the point in me staying sexually pure, when so many Christian talking heads say, “Nah, God does not REALLY expect you to abstain. If you slip up and fool around, just forgive yourself. God created you to be sexual. Just get over it and move on. Virginity is not for marriage.”

This type of rationale, meant to soothe the guilty feelings of fornicators, removes any incentive for an adult virgin to remain a virgin.

Doesn’t the Bible say don’t do or say anything that may cause a sister in Christ to stumble?

I’m not asking for Christian fornicators to be bashed in the heads with rocks by church- going mobs, but I’d like to see a little more accountability in this area, instead of an, “aw shucks, we all fornicate, don’t worry about it” lax attitude from Christians.

You see where Robertson said,

    That was fine for Mary, she was a virgin, but she was… what was in her was conceived by the Holy Spirit of God. All right.

I have noticed that the usual evangelical or conservative Christian response to singleness, virginity, and celibacy is to respect all three conditions ONLY when discussing certain Bible figures, such as Jesus or Paul, or in the case of Robertson today, with Mary.

As to those Christian adults who are singles and virgins in this day and age, there is no support for us; we are expected to fornicate.

(Or, in other branches of conservative and liberal Christian thought today, hetero singles are expected to abstain, but homosexual singles are not, which I have blogged about before as well).

Anyway, I blogged about that odd and frustrating phenomenon before, where virginity and singleness are respected only in regards to Jesus, Paul, and Mary, here:
(Link): Ever Notice That Christians Don’t Care About or Value Singleness, Unless Jesus Christ’s Singleness and Celibacy is Doubted or Called Into Question by Scholars?

Feb 11, 2014 video of Pat Robertson saying that virginity is not for marriage, and only for Mary (Mother of Jesus):


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Related posts, this blog:

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”

(Link): Christian Preacher Admits He Won’t Preach About Sexuality For Fear It May Offend Sexual Sinners

(Link): Sometimes Shame Guilt and Hurt Feelings Over Sexual Sins Is a Good Thing – but – Emergents, Liberals Who Are Into Virgin and Celibate Shaming

(Link): Biblical Balance in Teaching About Sexual Sin – don’t white wash and downplay sexual sin, but don’t continually beat people up over it

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity – Christians Attack and Criticize Virginity Sexual Purity Celibacy / Virginity Sexual Purity Not An Idol

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Early Marriage Position Advocates A Low View of Celibacy and Virginity and Adult Singleness – another example: Justin Deeter Blog about Early Marriage

(Link): Virgin – and Celibate – Shaming : Christian Double Standards – Homosexuals Vs Hetero Singles – Concerning Thabiti Anyabwile and Gag Reflexes

(Link): Liberty Counsel Fears Prom, Losing Freedom To Be Abstinent Before Marriage – their marketing has been jeered by ex Christians, atheists, liberal Christians, and secular left wingers / Re: Day of Purity Campaign

(Link): Preacher Mark Driscoll Basically Says No, Single Christian Males Cannot or Should Not Serve as Preachers / in Leadership Positions – Attempts to Justify Unbiblical, Anti Singleness Christian Bias, Has Incorrect and Unbiblical Views about Celibacy

(Link): I thought Christians “worshipped” virginity? Guess not: TLW (True Love Waits) Spokesman Says TLW Will NOT “Elevate Virginity” – Life Way to Relaunch “True Love Waits” Campaign

(Link): Where Are America’s Virgins? Discouraging the Virtuous / Sex and Never Married Single Christians / Virginity Virgin by Julia Duin

(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re: Celibacy

(Link): Why So Much Fornication – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): Joshua Rogers of Boundless / Focus on the Family Attacks Biblical Teaching of Virginity Until Marriage

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming

(Link): Famous Historical Christian Figure Expects Everyone To Fail At Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

Pat Robertson: Humans Have Sexual Drives of Animals and Twice Divorced People are “Losers” (ie, they are not marriage material, they keep picking losers)

Pat Robertson: Humans Have Sexual Drives of Animals and Twice Divorced People are “Losers” (ie, they are not marriage material, they keep picking losers)

Okay. More sexual sin rationalization from Christian television host Pat Robertson concerning sexual sin on todays’ 700 Club, aired Dec 5, 2013.

I believe the pertinent portion is the one after the letter from the lady asking about the End Times, and the lady asking about divorce. This MIGHT the episode:
(Link): 700 Club, Bring It On-Line: God’s View Of Divorce

Oh wait, before I get to the part of the show I originally started this post for, I want to comment on Pat’s divorce answer.

I just heard the divorce part online, from watching the video.

Robertson basically tells the woman who says she was divorced twice (and wants to know if God will consider her an adulteress if she marries again), that she is a loser…

He also says that she is not “marriage material” because she has had two failed marriages. LOL. Oh Pat, you are so sensitive with people’s feelings. LOL.

God only knows what the idiot would say if he found out I’m still not married at age 40ish.

Robertson would probably tell me I have the “gift of singleness” (which the Bible does NOT teach – 1 Corinthians 7 does not teach GOS; it merely says marriage is a pain in the ass and that staying single is easier or more beneficial).

Now, I myself wonder about people who have struck out at marriage more than twice. You may not be cut out for marriage, though I would not go so far as to call you a “loser,” that is pretty damn harsh.

But I notice that most Christians are either very lax about divorce, while the other side goes too strict (they say you can never divorce, unless in case of adultery – which is not what Jesus taught, (Link): see this page (“What does the Bible really teach about divorce?”)).

Continue reading “Pat Robertson: Humans Have Sexual Drives of Animals and Twice Divorced People are “Losers” (ie, they are not marriage material, they keep picking losers)”

Pat Robertson Excuses Female Adultery – hey, we are all “sexual beings”

Pat Robertson Excuses Female Adultery

Robertson sure is on a roll this week. Just a couple of days ago, he was saying pre marital sex is no big deal, now he’s brushing off adultery like it’s entirely understandable, because hey, married women are “sexual beings” who get urges.

You can watch that episode here (the question from the married woman is the 3rd of 4th one in the video):
(Link): Pat Robertson on adultery: Everyone is a “sexual being” so it’s okay if you cheat

I do have to credit him for at least acknowledging that women have a libido. Usually, conservative Christian men behave as though women, especially married ones, are not the least interested in sex.

Anyway, a lady wrote Robertson’s “700 Club” show saying she is married, and while she was married, a male co worker kissed her 16 years ago, and she said he said he wanted “more than that.”

She feels just horrible about this incident and wants to know if she should tell her husband now.

Now, I don’t think a kiss is a big deal, but in the context of discussing marital infidelity in general, that is where Robertson sort of brushed the whole thing aside like it’s no big deal.

One rationale he gave is that married women are “sexual beings” and get desires.

Er, yes, Pat, that is true, but just because God gave us all sexual desires and urges does not mean we are to act upon them.

You would think Robertson, who claims to be a Christian with his own Christian show, would defend sexual purity, but he never misses a chance to downplay adultery or pre-marital sex. He does come down hard on pornography in some shows, but he seems to think actually, literally having sex with another person is nothing to be concerned about.

The consensus I am getting from Christians on the topic of sex is that fornication is acceptable for adults. They only remain concerned that women under the age of 25 not have pre-marital sex. Once you’re past 25, they don’t seem to care anymore.

Only in the world of conservative, evangelical Christianity do they preach loudly to defend something but then turn around five minutes later and say they don’t really mean it.

Evangelical Christians, and some other flavors of Christians, will tell you when you are 12, 15, or 20 that sex is for marriage only, but you start hearing them tell people over 25, “we don’t expect you to hold out, though. We know you cannot resist, you will have pre-marital sex, and once married, you will have affairs, but that’s okay! You’re a sexual being with urges, you are a sinner. Nobody expects you to control yourself.”
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Related posts this blog:

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”

Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”

Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”

On today’s “The 700 Club,” a viewer in his early 20s wrote to hosts of the show with a question. The letter writer says he is a virgin and wants to wait for marriage to have sex. The guy said he found out his girlfriend is not a virgin. He wanted to know if dating her is wrong.

You can watch the video yourself here:
(Link): Marriage and Tithing questions (question from male virgin about dating a non virgin)

The 700 Club show provided a transcript:

PAT:

    THERE IS NOTHING THAT SAYS YOU SHOULD MARRY A VIRGIN. PROBABLY INTERESTING.

THE FACT THAT SOMEBODY HAS A LITTLE [previous (pre marital) sexual] EXPERIENCE ISN’T NECESSARILY A BAD THING.

I DON’T THINK YOU CAN SAY, IF YOUR GIRLFRIEND IS PER MISCOWOUS [sic] AND HOPPING IN AND OUT OF BED WITH MULTIPLE SEX PARTNERS, IF SHE HAPPENED TO HAD AN ENCOUNTER WITH SOMEBODY SHE WAS DEEPLY ATTRACTED TO, GET OVER IT.

—(end quote)—

Keeping in mind that Pat Robertson engaged in fornication himself (see previous posts on this blog for more on that, complete with links), which is why, I suspect, he tends to excuse hetero fornication, any time someone writes in asking him these types of questions.

Robertson told the letter writer, “Having [previous sexual] experience is not necessarily a bad thing.” 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯

Yes, Robertson really said that.

Robertson passes himself off as a Christian. It’s one thing to inform people that sexual sin can be forgiven, which is all well and good, but quite another to tell a virgin, “Having [previous sexual] experience is not necessarily a bad thing,” which is a round-about way of condoning pre-martial sex and denigrating virginity.

A Christian should have very high standards in this area and not teach or endorse anything less than what the Bible says about the topic of sex, and the Bible is clear, yes very clear (I know some “nones,” emergents, and liberals hate it when anyone says the Bible is ‘clear’ on anything, but on some topics, yes, it really is), and the Bible is quite clear that sex is for marriage and marriage only.

That I see self-professing Christians with a huge platform, such as Robertson, with his daily national television show, where he gets to repeat his views to millions, act so dismissive towards virginity, when they should be the first to uphold it, is infuriating and perplexing.

Robertson will sit there and act critical towards homosexuality on some ‘700 Club’ episodes, but he has this double standard where he downplays or excuses hetero sexual sin, especially if it is hetero pre-marital sex.

(It’s usually the reverse these days: I see emergent Christians, and other types of Christians (even conservative and orthodox ones), arguing that hetero singles should abstain from sex, but not homosexuals, because, the thinking goes, pity those poor homosexuals who may never have an avenue to have sex at all, if they stay true to Biblical sexual teachings, and who can expect anyone to stay a virgin over a lifetime – never mind that the same fate befalls hetero singles who may never marry because they are unable to find a suitable partner).

This is also odd on other levels; usually, conservative Christians tell kids and college aged people if they retain their virginity until marriage that they will have mind-blowing, frequent sex – which is of course, not true; I’ve posted many links showing that quite the opposite happens.

But Robertson is going the other route and telling single and virginal Christians that having sexual experience prior to marriage is not a bad thing, and that, he implies, it can even enhance a marriage. It’s remarkable that he is so anti-biblical on the issue of sexual ethics.

Many Christians do not support celibacy or virginity; if anything, some of them denigrate and dismiss both.

You can also watch this Pat Robertson segment on You Tube (the You Tube Link):


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Related posts this blog:

(Link): Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)

(Link): Advocate of Family Values Doesn’t Uphold Family Values | Stop Asking Pat Robertson for Advice America!

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link): No Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Link): Virgin – and Celibate – Shaming : Christian Double Standards – Homosexuals Vs Hetero Singles – Concerning Thabiti Anyabwile and Gag Reflexes

(Link): The Activist Who Says Being Gay Is Not A Sin – double standards for homo singles vs hetero singles

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Pat Robertson raises the old canard about females dressing modestly and males supposedly being visually oriented

(Link): Pat Robertson: (basically): Pre Marital Sex is Okay (or to be totally expected) Because People are “Sexual Beings”

(Link): “He’s Got Muscles” – Pat Robertson Weirdness (Discussing Tebow’s Sexiness)

(Link): Pat Robertson Contradicts Himself On Healing and God’s Will

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson is Fine With Trandgenderism

(Link): Pat Robertson to married woman: All men are cheaters and sex crazed horn dogs, but that’s okay because they’re men

(Link): Creepy, Creepy and Sexist Pat Robertson

(Link): Is Pat Robertson of The 700 Club Show some kind of secret perv? He’s Creepy

(Link): Robertson Defends His Horrible Advice to Married Woman

Pat Robertson raises the old canard about females dressing modestly and males supposedly being visually oriented

Pat Robertson raises the old canard about females dressing modestly and males supposedly being visually oriented

Here we go again. Some person (a woman I think) asked Robertson on his 700 Club show (episode October 16, 2013), if it’s “wrong’ for a woman to wear “skimpy” clothing.

You can watch/ listen to Pat Robertson answer the viewer’s question here: (Link): Bring It On video

The Bible does not, IIRC, say that women are to dress modestly – the word “modest” is in context of their behavior, not their appearance (or, it is saying, do NOT flaunt your wealth – it is not discussing sex appeal) – but Robertson claims the Bible tells women to “dress modestly,” as in, hide your sex appeal.

Robertson also claims that a woman can cause a man to stumble in to sin because males are visually oriented.

Oh, Pat, hetero women are also “visually oriented.” Tell Tim Tebow to stop walking around shirtless at the beach, like this:

(Link): Tim Tebow is hanging out in Hawaii (shirtless photos of Tebow)

(Link): Shirtless Tim Tebow seems carefree as he enjoys the Hawaii surf with sister while the search for a new NFL team continues

Regarding the Tebow in Hawaii photos: Christian Pundit here likes what she sees! Woo hoo, half-naked, in-shape male! You go, Tim Tebow!

But maybe put a shirt on next time at the beach so you don’t cause your Christian sisters, who are visually oriented, to stumble.

BTW, while we single women are VISUALLY ORIENTED, not all of us are harlots who are sleeping around, or who would cheat with a married man. We can look at a guy and think, “Mmm, he is sexy hot baby wooooo!” -but it stops there.
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Related this blog:

(Link): “He’s Got Muscles” – Pat Robertson Weirdness (Discussing Tebow’s Sexiness)

(Link): Pat Robertson Contradicts Himself On Healing and God’s Will

(Link): Pat Robertson: (basically): Pre Marital Sex is Okay (or to be totally expected) Because People are “Sexual Beings”

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson is Fine With Trandgenderism

(Link): Advocate of Family Values Doesn’t Uphold Family Values | Stop Asking Pat Robertson for Advice America!

(Link): Pat Robertson to married woman: All men are cheaters and sex crazed horn dogs, but that’s okay because they’re men

(Link): Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)

(Link): Creepy, Creepy and Sexist Pat Robertson

(Link): Is Pat Robertson of The 700 Club Show some kind of secret perv? He’s Creepy

(Link): Robertson Defends His Horrible Advice to Married Woman

Pat Robertson Contradicts Himself On Healing and God’s Will

Pat Robertson Contradicts Himself On Healing and God’s Will

On today’s (Oct 10, 2013) Christian program “700 Club,” during their “Bring it on” show segment ((Link): Bring It On), host Pat Robertson fielded a question from a viewer who wants to know why Robertson’s show never mentions unanswered prayer, that some people pray for healing but never get healed.

This person said she thinks his show should periodically mention that not all who pray for healing get a healing, or whatever they are praying for – and I totally agree with her.

(I do not yet see this particular program on 700 Club’s website or else I would link to it.)

Anyway, Robertson’s reply to that viewer warbled all over the place.

Robertson brought up that saying “if it be in your will God” at the end of a prayer for healing is a “faith killer.”

I have to agree with the person who e-mailed with the question.

If anything, it is a “faith killer” that it is the Christian TV show, or Word of Faith, propensity to emphasize only successes in answer to prayer, to discuss only healings, and never to acknowledge times when God does NOT answer prayer, when God does NOT heal someone, and some die from, or live an entire life with, a disease.

It is a FACT that God does not answer all your prayers the way you want or hope, and it doesn’t matter how good you are, how godly, how much faith you have, and so on.

God’s answer is sometimes just a flat out “No.” But Word of Faith Christians, and other types, do not like to deal with this fact.

It’s actually very depressing if you are someone suffering from depression, cancer, or some other situation, and although you pray your heart out to God for months or years, God does not heal you, nor does He answer you, and yet, every time you tune in to shows like 700 Club, every single damn testimony on that show is by someone who says, “Two seconds after I prayed, God healed me, praise Jesus.”

You start to wonder why God is healing all these other people within two seconds of their prayer and not healing YOU, and you’ve been praying about your situation for YEARS – and you have even jumped through all the hoops to get your prayer answered that Christians say you are to jump through, such as repenting of all your sin, tithing regularly, reading your Bible daily, and whatever else.

Anyway, after Robertson made these comments about saying that using the phrase “if it be in your will” in prayer is a ‘faith killer,’ his show ran a story about a woman who got AIDS, but after she prayed to God for healing, she was healed of the disease.

This woman’s adult son was interviewed, and he said when he got news that his mother had AIDS, that he said to God, “Why my mom, God? Please heal her if it be in your will.”

Then, at the end of the show, after praying for the audience, Robertson turns to the camera and says, “We will be back with more 700 Club episodes God willing.”

Did you catch that? Within 15 minutes of telling people it is wrong to think or say “if it be in God’s will” he has two spots on his show of people using that very phrase – himself and the son of a woman who was healed of AIDS.

Even Jesus said (from Luke 22), “Father, if it is your will, take this cup [of suffering] away from me.” There is also a Bible passage where Paul says it is arrogant NOT to say or think in terms of “if it be in thy will” because we do NOT know what the future holds, only God does.

Robertson also contradicted his son, Gordon Robertson. Whenever Gordon hosts the show, he tells people that while people may not get a healing in this life, that everyone gets a healing in the afterlife / heaven.

Robertson said something during the show today when answering the viewer e-mail about how he feels it is a ‘cop out’ for Christians to think or teach that “not everyone gets healed in this life time but all get healed in Heaven.”

Well, that is the very concept his own son teaches when his son hosts that show. Pat Robertson is saying his own son Gordon “cops out” and gives lame answers to viewers of that very show.

If memory serves me, Jesus Christ did NOT heal everyone who came to him, as Robertson claimed. There is an incident or two when the Bible says Jesus was being followed by crowds (of sick people who wanted healing or what not), but he could not take it anymore and would leave the crowds to go off by Himself.

Also, and if memory serves, a few of the folks Jesus healed did not even ASK the man for healing, they were just sitting there minding their own business and Jesus walked by and offered to heal them of their blindness, paralyzed body part, or what ever – they did not ASK to be healed, Jesus just offered to do it. This factoid also does not square with Word of Faith teaching that you MUST pray and have ‘X’ amount of faith, or else God will not heal you.

Anyway, Christian shows need to run more testimonies by devout believers who despite a life time of prayers, were NOT healed or helped. It’s somewhat dishonest and a misrepresentation of Christian faith and life to only air stories of instant healing, when so many of us know good Christian people who prayed and prayed and still died.

Pat Robertson should have been put out to pasture years ago. He gives incorrect, unbiblical, insensitive, or hypocritical advice.

I notice his former co-host Kristi Watts has not been on that show since around June or July 2013, and nobody has mentioned her absence since then. Except someone on another site claims that,

    I just read that on June 25th Gordan [sic] Robertson announced that Kristi Watts was leaving to pursue her own Ministry. Hope this helps
    ————-
    [from the 700 Club Facebook page (LINK)]

    Hello All:

    “Thank you for your inquiry. CBN has announced the departure of Kristi Watts. Kristi is leaving the network in order to pursue other ministry opportunities.

    Gordon Robertson, chief executive officer of CBN, made the announcement on June 12, 2013.

    Gordon shared, “Kristi Watts has brought much joy and inspiration to the CBN family. While we will miss her, Kristi has always had a heart for ministry and we all wish her much success as she moves into this exciting new chapter.” Please join us in praying for God’s blessings on Kristi and her ministry. May God richly bless you.”

    CBN.COM ADMIN.

Good page on the topic on is it okay to use the phrase “if it be in your will” when praying to God (on another site):
(Link): Is it Okay to Pray, “If it Be Your Will, Lord?”

Excerpt:

    So, when we don’t know God’ will, there is nothing wrong with praying, “If it be your will, Lord.” Prayer is not about phrasing everything perfectly, or using the correct formula in the exact right way. Prayer is about communicating with God from our hearts, in an honest, loving relationship. Sometimes we get too concerned about technique and forget that God knows our hearts and understands our human imperfections.

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Related this blog:

(Link): On Prayer and Christ’s Comment to Grant You Anything You Ask in His Name

(Link): Blaming the Christian for His or Her Own Problem or Unanswered Prayer / Christian Codependency

(Link): Pat Robertson: (basically): Pre Marital Sex is Okay (or to be totally expected) Because People are “Sexual Beings”

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson is Fine With Trandgenderism

(Link): Atlanta Baptist Church Missing Person Project Missing the Unmarried – Charles Stanley on Singleness – Unanswered Prayer

(Link): “He’s Got Muscles” – Pat Robertson Weirdness (Discussing Tebow’s Sexiness)

(Link): Advocate of Family Values Doesn’t Uphold Family Values | Stop Asking Pat Robertson for Advice America!

(Link): Pat Robertson to married woman: All men are cheaters and sex crazed horn dogs, but that’s okay because they’re men

(Link): Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)

(Link): Creepy, Creepy and Sexist Pat Robertson

(Link): Is Pat Robertson of The 700 Club Show some kind of secret perv? He’s Creepy

(Link): Robertson Defends His Horrible Advice to Married Woman

Sometimes Shame Guilt and Hurt Feelings Over Sexual Sins Is a Good Thing – but – Emergents, Liberals Who Are Into Virgin and Celibate Shaming

Sometimes Shame Guilt and Hurt Feelings Over Sexual Sins Is a Good Thing

If I see one more “Christian” writer blogging or podcasting about how Christians need to abandon virginity- until- marriage (a.k.a. sexual purity or celibacy) teachings and standards, which are biblical, I may puke.

It has become quite de rigueur in some Christian circles to bash virginity and celibacy these days.

Oddly, Christian emergents, such as Rachel Held Evans, post-Evangelical or ex-Christian writers, and some spiritual abuse bloggers, who usually try to be hyper-sensitive to people’s feelings, who will twist themselves into pretzels to defend homosexuals or homosexuality, will hypocritically often give no thought to trampling on the feelings of adult, Christian hetero virgins.

I would imagine that adult, Christian homosexual virgins might be offended by some of this same rhetoric aimed against celibacy sexual purity, and virginity as well; there are some Christians who have S.S.A., same sex attraction [homosexual leanings], but who have chosen to stay celibate.

How do you suppose the rants against sexual purity teachings and the whole-scale acceptance of homosexual behavior by fellow Christians makes them feel? I guess their feelings do not matter because they don’t neatly fit into the little politically correct box of the Christian homosexual agenda pushers?

I have a lot of respect for Christian homosexuals/SSA who are abstaining from sexual activity, who are celibate, due to allegiance to biblical teachings about sex. (And they do exist. I periodically come across an interview with Christian homosexual/SSA celibates on Christian podcast shows or in blogs.)

Some emergents and theologically/doctrinally liberal Christians go so far as to defend fornication (both homo and hetero varieties) and to advocate it, never mind bashing virginity and celibacy, such as:
(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

I recall reading a small article several years ago in a secular paper about secular culture. The author (and I’ve no idea what her religious views were), said part of the problem with American (secular) culture is that we have lost our sense of shame. I agree with this assessment.

The author said one reason we see so much trash and vulgarity in the media, why we see pop singers dancing around half naked on music shows, is that people have lost their sense of shame – and that is not always a good thing.

I portend the same thing has happened in Christian culture the last five or more years, especially when it comes to sex related sin.

Some Christians have been arguing on their blogs, books, magazine articles, in pod casts, and on radio shows, that Christians should cease from upholding biblical teachings on celibacy and virginity because such teachings (and the standards themselves) make people who have engaged in pre-marital sex (aka fornication) feel ashamed, guilty, bad, or flawed.

As a 40 something, hetero virgin -I chose to remain a virgin until marriage- I find this most puzzling.

I have managed to do what most Christians assume is the impossible: stayed a virgin into my 40s; obviously, I prove a person can live without sex.

No, I do not have a low libido; no I am not fat and ugly; yes I have been engaged to a man; yes, I have been flirted with and hit on by men (I am not ugly and fat).

I’m having a hard time seeing why Biblical teachings on sexual ethics should be tossed aside or ignored, merely because some have not lived up to those ethics, or that some who fornicated feel shameful or guilty when they hear such ethics taught.

I can just imagine if people who claim to be Christ followers used that criteria in other areas of life and sin:

    “Hi, my name is John Doe. I enjoy being a serial killer! I love strangling women to death. Every time I hear a Christian preacher mention that murder of humans is a sin, it makes me feel so guilty and ashamed. I think we should all just accept that some people like to murder, they cannot help it, and well, you Christians should drop that teaching to accomodate me and my feelings. I was born with these urges to kill. I have a need to kill. Respect my inclination to murder, and don’t judge me or make me feel ashamed for it.”

If your guilt or shame over murdering another person – or stealing, or having sex before marriage- compels you to cease such behavior, then I think that is a plus, not a minus.

God, if He exists, says in the Bible that He gave humanity consciences, so that when and if you do something wrong, yes, you will feel guilty and ashamed over it.

(Disclaimer: I am not saying someone who commits a sin and repents should feel guilt indefinitely. I’m not talking about “false guilt,” and that carried over a lifetime. These days, I see the opposite: people, including Christians, sadly, who try to hide away from feelings of guilt, shame, and condemnation at all costs.)

Instead of telling homo and hetero singles to go right ahead and feed their sexual desires, why not encourage them to hold on and remain virgins or celibate?

The Bible talks about Christians encouraging other Christians to hold on, hang in there, and complete the race.

The Bible does not tell Christians to tell other Christians, “When the going gets tough, just give up, and give in. Stop the race, go sit on the sideline. Being a virgin is so hard, so cave in, stop fighting it! Everyone else is having sex, so join them.”

However, many emergent Christians are basically carrying the banner for this “Just cave in and do it, then don’t feel guilty or shamed for it!” approach, which seems to be nothing more than the Least Common Denominator Approach, the Low Expectations Approach, or the Quitter Approach, rather than the the Over-comer, or Winner, or I Know You Can Do It approach.

Here is an editorial on the topic of shame:

(Link): Shame Can be Healthy When We Violate God’s Standards

by Trace Embry

There is a common belief among the politically correct “intelligentsia” that shame is not something our kids–or anyone else for that matter–ought to experience.

Even many Christians have bought into this idea.

Scripture; however, seems to make a different case. God has made us, and our kids, with the capacity for many emotions– shame being just one of them.

Confusion about this subject comes when someone attempts to force someone else to feel shame for something that God did not call shameful–like when a young child spills his milk or fails to control his bladder.

Even then, there comes a time and age when even these acts become inappropriate–perhaps even shameful– particularly if done with reckless frequency and without legitimate excuse, i.e., such as a physical or mental condition.

To remind an unrepentant child that he ought to be ashamed of himself for committing some blatant act of foolishness, abuse or other sinful activity can often be just good parenting. Or in the case of two adults, just being a good friend.

Proverbs 27: 6 says, “Wounds from a friend can be trusted; but, an enemy multiplies kisses.” Besides, aren’t there things that we should be ashamed of? The Bible doesn’t have much positive to say about a generation that does not even know how to blush.

Shame is often a component of true conviction which is fundamental to repentance. Shame is a legitimate emotion when God’s standards are violated. We need not be ashamed of who we are, but rather for what we do.

Confusion can also come in when we are made to be ashamed of who we are. Knowing that we are created by God in the image of God should remind us that we should never be ashamed of who we are. As the saying goes, “God does not make junk!” What God has created; however, can create junk–junk that we should be ashamed of creating. And sometimes it takes someone else to remind us that we should feel ashamed for creating it.

When Nathan the prophet told King David, “You are the man.” I doubt he expected David to feel like a winner in that moment. David’s emotions were completely appropriate for that moment.

Shame is actually a good emotion; for, like pain, it is an alarm that tells us something is not right.

And, like pain, it is also a motivator to start heading in the right direction. Feeling no shame is how our society has arrived at its current moral condition.

Pop psychology–not Scripture–is where this notion of shame being a naughty word came from. Views on psychology are continually changing, while God’s Word remains trustworthy through the ages. So, remember that anyone who shames you into believing that shame is a shame is a sham.

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Related posts this blog:

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link):  Why Progressive Christians Are Ineffective and Unpersuasive by P. Heck – Also: How Liberals Can Avoid Turning Off Right Wingers

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link): Anti-Porn Activist: ‘Ethically Sourced’ Porn ‘Sounds Like an Oxymoron’

(Link):  CDC Report: Virgin Teens Much Healthier Than Their Sexually Active Peers (2016 Report)

(Link): Confusing Sexual Assault and Sexual Abuse with Consensual Sex and Then Condemning Sexual Purity Teachings – and other, related topics

(Link):  Our Bodies Were Not Made for Sex by T. Swann

(Link): Warning: This Column Will Offend You – by M. Moynihan (Re: Trigger Warnings in Written Material, Terms such as slut shaming, man-splain, etc)

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Link): Sex, Love & Celibacy by Dan Navin [who is a Christian homosexual celibate]

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): To Get Any Attention or Support from a Church These Days you Have To Be A Stripper, Prostitute, or Orphan

(Link): Virgin – and Celibate – Shaming : Christian Double Standards – Homosexuals Vs Hetero Singles – Concerning Thabiti Anyabwile and Gag Reflexes

(Link): Dude Arguing for Legalization of Prostitution Uses Same Rationale as Christians Concerning Celibacy and Sexual Purity

(Link): The Activist Who Says Being Gay Is Not A Sin – double standards for homo singles vs hetero singles

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Students Discuss Dissatisfaction with “Hookup Culture” [Casual Sex, Fornication, Pre Marital Sex]

(Link): The ol’ Christian myth that married couples are impervious to sexual sin but singles have lots of sexual sin

(Link): Why So Much Fornication – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): Rare Reminders from Christians on Recent Broadcasts that Fornication is Wrong and That Older Celibates Exist

(Link): The Trivialization of Sex (a post by A. Hamilton)

(Link): Confessions of a 25-year-old Christian virgin (article) – and related info

(Link): CDC Reports Rare Lesbian HIV Transmission Case

(Link): Slut Shaming and Virgin Shaming and Secular and Christian Culture – Dirty Water / Used Chewing Gum and the CDC’s Warnings – I guess the CDC is a bunch of slut shamers ?

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming
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Related post, off site:

(Link): Same-Sex Marriage and the Single Christian – How marriage-happy churches are unwittingly fueling same-sex coupling—and leaving singles like me in the dust.

The Activist Who Says Being Gay Is Not A Sin – double standards for homo singles vs hetero singles

The Activist Who Says Being Gay Is Not A Sin

(the following post contains some “adult” language)
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I don’t particularly enjoy writing about homosexuality. I am a social conservative who does not agree with homosexuality, but it’s not one of my favorite topics to go after and opine on, as it often is for other so cons.

Homosexuality is not a topic I care about a lot in and of itself, but why I do address it from time to time on this blog is how it impacts, or interacts with, hetero celibacy, hetero virginity, and how older hetero singles are (mis)treated by Christian culture, and other, related issues pertaining to heteros.

I don’t think most Christians think “being gay is a sin,” but they do believe that sex outside of a one-man married to one-woman marriage is a sin, and that would include one man performing sexual acts on another man, or having sexual fantasies thereof.

I’m not sure why Savage, who is a frothing- at- the- mouth homosexual activist discussed in the article I have linked to below, is taking this route.

Why is Savage bothering with any sort of theological argument, claiming that the Bible does not condemn homosexuals or homosexuality, when homosexual activists are more than happy to be bullies and thugs, are more than happy to sue people into compliance or into silence, harassing them in ceasing criticism, or to get them harassed to the point they get fired from their jobs, or they have to close their businesses? (See for instance: (Link): Christian bakery closes after LGBT threats, protests)

These days, all the HMs (Homosexual Militants, which includes their Hetero supporters) has to do is start screaming, “You’re a bigot and homophobe” and that’s supposed to settle things.

The HMs are the bigots and bullies, not the heteros who don’t agree with homosexuality.

Dan Savage is an anti-Christian, anti-Republican, anti-conservative bigot and all around asshole. Dan Savage is to pro homosexual causes what Fred Phelps of Westboro is to anti homosexual causes.

Here is the article I am blogging about now, with further observations by me below this link:

(Link): THE SURPRISE ACTIVIST WHO’S JOINING CALLS FOR A ‘RENEWED CHRISTIANITY’ THAT BELIEVES BEING GAY ISN’T A SIN

If you’ve been to this blog before, you know my story: over age 40, hetero, never married, and a virgin (I’ve never had sex. I was waiting for marriage to have sex).

However, I’ve also pointed out I’m slowly leaving the Christian faith, and I no longer personally subscribe to being a virgin until marriage any more – but – I still see that the Bible condemns pre marital sex.

In other words, I’m not going to pull dishonest bullshit like the HMs, or anti-sexual purity emergents, and say, “Oh, the Bible does not forbid homosexual sex or hetero fornication!,” when I know damn well it does.

If you’re going to have sex outside of marriage (and I myself plan on doing so eventually), at least be honest enough to admit that the Bible does NOT have your back on this topic.

The Bible most certainly does condemn pre-marital sex, as well as homosexual sex.

Here are quotes from the article (with additional observations by me below this).

THE SURPRISE ACTIVIST [Dan Savage] WHO’S JOINING CALLS FOR A ‘RENEWED CHRISTIANITY’ THAT BELIEVES BEING GAY ISN’T A SIN

    Sep. 9, 2013 7:49am
    author: Billy Hallowell

    Christians who believe that being gay is a sin that violates biblical tenets now have some competition among their own ranks. As the debate over gay marriage continues to intensify at the local, state and national level, a new group has launched with the sole purpose of giving “LGBT-affirming Christians a means of proclaiming to the world” that there’s nothing sinful about being gay, lesbian, bi-sexual or transgender.

    At the center of the NALT Christians Project (NALT stands for “Not All Like That”) is the claim that there’s nothing in the Bible that would contradict or condemn a homosexual lifestyle. The organization intends to reach young people, in particular, with its message urging for inclusion and a new view on biblical texts.

    Founded by John Shore, a blogger and Christian who resides in San Diego, Calif., NALT also has the support of gay rights advocates Dan Savage, Wayne Besen and Evan Hurst (the latter two work for “Truth Wins Out,” an organization that supports the LBGT community). It is Savage’s involvement, though, that is most noteworthy — and for a variety of reasons.

    First and foremost, there’s his complicated history with conservative Christians. Last year, while speaking to teens, he lambasted the Bible, using expletives in an incident that widely made headlines.

    And earlier this summer it was announced that the “It Gets Better” campaign founder will be speaking at the annual Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) convention, yet another surprise considering his involvement in the NALT Christians Project. Savage, who is apparently an agnostic, is putting his full weight behind the NALT project, which will certainly raise some eyebrows.

    In a video announcement supporting the new-found project, he said, that the initiative is meant to reach “Christians who support equal rights.” And he also noted that he’s the individual who coined the “Not All Like That” phrase after interacting with many Christians who said that they do not agree with the hateful tactics that some believers have used in dismissing the gay community.

Christians already believe homosexuals have “equal rights.”

What Christians disagree with is that SSA (Same Sex Attraction) is good, normal, biblical, and that it’s morally acceptable for unmarried people to engage in sexual acts. Christians also teach that about HETERO unmarried people (that it is not right for them to have sex outside of marriage), so there is no double standard in that regard.

However, please see this post at this blog:
(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

Continuing quotes (Link): from the article:

    “If you’re a Christian who believe God cares no more about a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity than God cares about the color of a person’s hair or eyes make a Not All Like That video,” Savage said.

    “If you don’t take that step, if you don’t step up then your silence allows the Tony Perkins and the Pat Robertsons of this world to speak for you and to continue doing real harm not to just LBGT people, but also to Christianity itself.”

    Savage’s views naturally carry through to the group’s overarching aims and goal set. The main premise of the project is that Christians have badly handled the gay issue and that there’s actually no reason why believers shouldn’t be supporting homosexuals.

    In a letter published on the NALT website, Shore charged that many Christians have used the Bible and churches to “bully, malign and shame LGBT people,” also claiming that those believers who support gays and lesbians have not stood up to these attacks fervently enough. In the note, Shore also called for a “renewed Christianity” that doesn’t stand for bigotry and that focuses upon the love that Jesus Christ represented.

    NATL’s recent launch included 30 videos featuring Christians and others supporting gays and lesbians (watch of the clips here). The challenge, as Time notes, will be for Shore, Savage and others to figure out just how many Christians agree with the notion that gay marriage isn’t anti-biblical. The faith has long held, based on the holy book’s interpretation, that living a gay lifestyle is sinful.

Savage keeps making this out to be about a person’s “orientation,” where again, I think most Christian interpretation of the Bible condemns the sinful thought lives, or actions and behaviors.

It’s fine to be HETERO and a woman who is attracted to men, but according to Jesus, it’s not fine for that woman to then sit around having X-rated fantasies of doing the nasty with some man you have a crush on.

Same teaching applies to hetero males: they are not to look after women in lust.

Jesus says lusting after someone is the same thing, or just as bad as, adultery. In the same way, Jesus would not be cool with a man having X-rated fantasies of having sex with another man.

Many of the same sexual rules or ethical standards in the Bible apply equally to homosexuals as they do to hetero.

It’s not rocket science. There is no “get out of jail free, do anything you want to sexually” card regarding biblical sexual teaching.

There is no verse or passage in the Bible that says any sex at all, at any time, with anyone, is peachy and fine, so go to it and don’t feel bad or guilty about it.

There are limits placed on sexual activity in the Bible for every one.

At least I’m honest enough to admit that when I do start having pre- marital sex (and again, I am hetero), the Bible does not support me on it.

To see that same level of honesty from HMs would be refreshing, but they want the Bible to teach something it simply does not teach.

It’s funny to me that homosexual militants can’t just let people agree to disagree with them; they want, and pathetically need, whole-scale acceptance from every one and celebration -not just tolerance- but celebration of their sexuality, or sexual actions.

They want to force people to “like” homosexuality. You can’t force every one to like homosexuality any more than you can force every one to like cabbage, the color green, skinny ties, rocky road ice cream, or watching football.

It is also my opinion that homosexual militants, like some hetero sex-obsessed preachers (eg, Mark Driscoll) have turned sex into an idol. They seek after sex and sexual experiences, not the God of the Bible.

If Christians did a better job supporting hetero celibate adult singles (they do a piss poor job at this, and many churches treat adult singles like crap), treating singles better would have gone a long way in heading off a lot of problems now being created by homosexual militants.
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Related posts this blog:

(Link): Virgin – and Celibate – Shaming : Christian Double Standards – Homosexuals Vs Hetero Singles – Concerning Thabiti Anyabwile and Gag Reflexes

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

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Related post, off site:

(Link): Same-Sex Marriage and the Single Christian – How marriage-happy churches are unwittingly fueling same-sex coupling—and leaving singles like me in the dust.

(Link): Christian Gender Complementarian Group (CBMW) Anti Virginity and Anti Sexual Purity Stance (At Least Watered Down) – and their Anti Homosexual Marriage Position