Tim Challies Needs to Shut His Pie Hole about Many Things, but Especially About Dating, Marriage, Singleness, and Now, Equally Yoked

Tim Challies Needs to Shut His Pie Hole about Many Things, but Especially About Dating, Marriage, Singleness, and Now, Equally Yoked

Tim Challies is the doofus Christian blogger, speaker, and book author who has actually said garbage in the past such as “even fornicators are virgins now” (yeah, (Link): he really said that).

Also bear in mind:

(Link): Tim Challies, Who Is Fine With Single Adults Fornicating, Is Not Okay With Fake Sex on TV, As Portrayed by Married Actors

(Link):  Christians (such as Tim Challies and his wife) Want to Hold Adulterers Accountable but Give Adult Single Fornicators a Pass

Furthermore, Challies is so vested in his belief of “Christian gender complementarianism,” he doesn’t care that its “male headship” doctrine leads to domestic violence against women and often leads to pressuring women to staying in abusive marriages; you can read more about that here:

(Link, to “Internet Monk” site): Stuck With Their Noses In the Text

Challies is more interested in women obeying the “male headship” and female subordination articles of faith that comprise gender complementarianism than he is in the safety and well-being of women.

As such, if you are a single woman, do you REALLY want to take any sort of relationship advice from this kind of person who does not value YOU as a person?

I would hope not.

See this:

(Link):  Consider The Source: Christians Who Give Singles Dating Advice Also Regularly Coach Wives to Stay in Abusive Marriages

Here is the link to the Tim Challies “Equally Yoked” article on Christian Post site (with more remarks by me below the excerpts):

(Link): Tim Challies Warns Christians the ‘Bible Is Very Clear’ Not to Marry Unbelievers

Here are excerpts from that page:

“The Bible makes it very, very clear that a Christian can only marry another Christian. You may not marry somebody who is an unbeliever. You should not marry somebody for whom you’re not certain whether they’re a believer or not. So absolutely, the first thing is, is this person a believer in Jesus Christ? Do we share faith?” Challies advised Thursday in part two of his message on Christian dating.

Continue reading “Tim Challies Needs to Shut His Pie Hole about Many Things, but Especially About Dating, Marriage, Singleness, and Now, Equally Yoked”

Tim Challies, Who Is Fine With Single Adults Fornicating, Is Not Okay With Fake Sex on TV, As Portrayed by Married Actors

Tim Challies, Who Is Fine With Single Adults Fornicating, Is Not Okay With Fake Sex on TV, As Portrayed by Married Actors

The following comes from Tim Challies, who says in one previous, much older post of his, that “even fornicators are virgins now.” (No, I’m not kidding. I (Link): blogged about that obnoxious view a few years ago.)

Yes, that Tim Challies.

The same Tim Challies whose wife later wrote a guest post on his blog shaming married men who commit adultery (link to that).

In the Challies’ world, and their edition of the Bible, sexual sin by single adults is A-O’tay, but not cool when married folks do it.

In this latest blog post, Challies is upset by married actresses who pretend to have sex for movie or TV roles (is he equally concerned with male actors in sex scenes who are married in real life? Why not? Why use a woman as an example?):

(Link):   Sex on the Silver Screen – Outsourcing Depravity

Why is Challies so upset with a married woman who is a mother in real life having fake sex for a TV role, but he is peachy fine dandy keen with un-married women who have sex prior to marriage in REAL LIFE?

His sexual ethics are not consistent. At all.

Continue reading “Tim Challies, Who Is Fine With Single Adults Fornicating, Is Not Okay With Fake Sex on TV, As Portrayed by Married Actors”

Anti Virginity Christian Blogger Tim Challies Now Writes: ’31 Days of Purity: My Identity’ – What?

Anti Virginity Christian Blogger Tim Challies Now Writes: ’31 Days of Purity: My Identity’ – What?

This is rich. I just learned about a new Tim Challies post via Twitter, a post where he is starting a new blog series where he discusses being sexually pure for 31 days.

I left this response below Challies’ post, the second one in the series (link to that post on the Challies blog page):

    LOL, is this a joke? Challies is the same guy who wrote an anti virginity editorial a few months ago, where he declared that “even fornicators are virgins now.” Which totally makes a mockery out of adults such as myself, who are literal virgins past the age of 40.

    When you downgrade the importance of virginity to soothe the injured feelings of fornicators, who often claim these days of feeling ashamed or guilty when they hear sermons or read blogs esteeming sexual purity and virginity, you are inadvertently insulting adult Christians who are still virgins into their adulthoods.

First, some background to get you up to speed:

So, Challies is one of those Christians who runs around wanting Christians to downplay the concepts of -and biblical teachings concerning- virginity and sexual purity, because a lot of Christians today – especially emergents, ex-Christians, and post evangelicals – are running around on their blogs saying how horrible sexual purity teachings make them feel, because they fornicated in their teens or early twenties.

Such women want, and expect, the entire body of Christ to ignore, and stop talking about, sexual sin. They want Christians to stop teaching that sex prior to marriage is sinful.

Next thing you know, well-known emergent, liberal, and post-evangelical, feminist Christians bloggers took up the banner of this cause, going on and on about how teaching about virginity and denouncing pre-marital sex was harmful to women and should be stopped. Not too many months after, more conservative Christians – such as Tim Challies, Al Mohler, and others – took up that banner too.

Oh gosh golly, by writing this,
(Link): 31 Days of Purity: My Identity by Tim Challies,
isn’t Tim concerned that he may hurt and shame the feelings of men who have not been sexually pure?

And, if, based on Challies previous posts, all of us are virgins now, even the fornicators, what on earth possible difference does it make if a man engages in pre-marital sex (or views pornography), since, when he does, according to Challies, that man can just consider himself a virgin?

Here are a few excepts from
(Link): 31 Days of Purity: My Identity by Tim Challies

    March 02, 2014
    by Tim Challies

    Through the month of March, I am inviting you to 31 Days of Purity—thirty-one days of thinking about and praying for sexual purity. Each day features a short passage of Scripture, a reflection on that passage, and a brief prayer. Here is day two:

    [snip (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) which mentions that fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God, etc]

    As men we face the temptation to gain our deepest identity from our sexuality. For some, identity is found in sexual prowess while for others it is defined by sexual failures. The Corinthians, like us, suffered from identity confusion.

    … [Challies then goes on to explain 1 Corinthians 6:9-11]

    …. What Now? Consider joining our 31 Days of Purity Facebook group. It is optional, but you will find it a good place to go for discussion and encouragement. (Note: that Facebook group is for men only; here is one for Women Supporting Men)

I never prayed about sexual purity. I’m not sure if Challies is suggesting that men pray and ask God to keep them from caving in to sexual temptation.

You know how I resisted the urge to cave in and have pre-marital sex, and I’m still a virgin in my 40s (and I was engaged for a few years; I had the opportunity to have sex)? Here’s how: I made a choice not to have pre-marital sex, and I utilized self-discipline. That was all there was to it. I did not pray and ask God to keep me from sexually straying.

I’m not necessarily saying it’s wrong for a person to pray and ask God for help in this matter, only I don’t believe it’s necessary. I remained a virgin this long without praying about it.

By the way, if you are thinking that I have no sex drive or a low libido, you are incorrect about that.

If you assume God “gifted me” with celibacy, you are incorrect. God does not gift anyone with celibacy, or give them supernatural abilities to resist sex – for more information on that, please see posts such as…

Anyway, as the Challies post I am discussing in my post here is only “day two” of Challies 31 day blog series, there will be plenty more blog posts about sexual purity by Challies in the future.

I am just gob smacked. How Christians so often speak out of both sides of their mouth on these topics. They often claim to support sexual purity, celibacy, and virginity until marriage, but they don’t.

When they start writing op eds or blogs encouraging fornicators, they tend to downplay the importance of sexual purity and make sexual sin sound like it’s not a big deal at all. Take Challies’ earlier comment about fornicators in his previous post, where he wrote “we are all virgins now [even fornicators].”

To write that is to make the word “virgin” nonsensical. The word “virgin” loses its meaning when Christians redefine it to mean “fornicators included,” or to say it can and does refer to people who have fornicated previously but who are currently celibate (ie, “born again virgins” or “secondary virgins” or “spiritual virgins.”)

What they don’t seem to comprehend is that such lack of support for honest to God virginity – no penis has been in my vagina ever, and I am over age 40 – has in part caused me to give up on this.

I have changed my thinking and intend on having pre-marital sex when I resume dating.

I mean, really, what could Challies’ comeback be to that? He has no comeback, no response.

Challies could say, “Well, um, er, the Bible forbids pre-marital sex.” Well no kidding!

But does this not take us back to first base: I’ve been saying so all along, that God frowns on pre-marital sex and the Bible says pre-marital sex is a sin, but every time I do so, a guy like you, Challies, comes along and says, “But even if you have pre-marital sex and are a fornicator, you too are a virgin now; Jesus forgives you of your sexual sin, so let it go.”

With a rationale like that, I don’t see much of a downside or negative penalty to fornicating, unless you happen to hook up with an HIV- infected preacher who doesn’t tell you he’s HIV- infected (like this).
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Related posts, this blog:

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity (they attack both concepts)

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming

(Link): Cheating Married Christian Women and Lessons I Take Away – and Being a Virgin Does Not Guarantee God will Send You a Spouse

(Link): Christians Not Only Accept Pre Marital Sex Among Adults But Are Also Now Accepting “Shacking Up” as The New Norm

(Link): Joshua Rogers of Boundless / Focus on the Family Attacks Biblical Teaching of Virginity Until Marriage

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re: Celibacy

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”

(Link): Christian TV Host Pat Robertson says on Christian TV show that ‘Virginity Has Nothing To Do With Marriage’ and Says (Paraphrasing) ‘Virginity Was Fine For Mary But Not Applicable For Any Other Christians’

Smalley (Focus on the Family Talking Head) Gives Interview about Talking to Children About Sex on Mefferd Show

Smalley (Focus on the Family Talking Head) Gives Interview about Talking to Children About Sex on Mefferd Show

The interview (given by G. Smalley from Christian group “Focus on the Family”) is rather dull, and Smalley gives rather vague, intellectual-sounding responses, none of which I perceive as being sufficient enough to convince most people to abstain from sex prior to marriage.

One of the first falsehoods I spotted is that both Mefferd and her guest, Smalley, assume these teens they are talking about will get married one day. You know, I had hoped to be married. I assumed as young as age ten, eleven, that I’d be married by 30. I’m still not married and in my forties.

Christian parents need to stop assuming that their kids will get married – because they might be 40, 45, 50, and still be single. So it’s not enough to think in terms of, “Oh golly, how do I convince Joe Jr. to wait until marriage for sex.” -What if Joe Jr. never meets the right woman, what if Joe Jr. grows up and never marries?

Here’s the link to the interview:
(Link): Greg Smalley from ‘Focus on the Family’ on How to Talk to Kids About Sex

The part of the interview (around 12.49 – 13.00) where the guy says to the host (Mefferd) that he tells his kids about how hot his wife is (their mother) was strange.

Smalley was saying he was using this method to model to his children how it’s important to wait ’til marriage to have sex. I’m not sure how emphasizing to your kids, if you are a married parent, how “hot” their mother is can convince them to remain celibate.

I also believe that Smalley’s view on this matter is unwittingly upholding the Christian falsehood that marriage will always entail regular, hot, satisfying sex (see all the posts on this blog of numerous stories of people who were virgins until marriage, but the sex was either lousy or infrequent, or both lousy AND infrequent).

Continue reading “Smalley (Focus on the Family Talking Head) Gives Interview about Talking to Children About Sex on Mefferd Show”

Tim Challies Christian Blogger Who Proclaimed That All Fornicators Are Virgins Is Now Telling People Not to Look In Lust – WTF?

Tim Challies Christian Blogger Who Proclaimed That All Fornicators Are Virgins Is Now Telling People Not to Look In Lust – WTF?

Hmm. In an older post on his blog, which was replicated at The Christian Post, Tim Challies proclaimed that Jesus is just fine with fornication! Challies proclaimed all fornicators are virgins (which renders the word “virgin,” and the lifestyle and concept thereof, and the Bible’s talk about fornicators being thrown into the Lake of Fire, meaningless).

Yes, he did, see my previous post, here:
(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

Below you will find: link to the Challies post where he urges people not to look at other people in lust, then goes off on some odd tangent about people’s expectations about church, and how your criticism of church amounts to adultery (I take it he means spiritual adultery of some sort), or what not.

Aside from the contradiction – saying ‘no, no, don’t look at others in lust’ when just three months ago he wrote a post saying that fornicators are virgins now, he is now also criticizing people who have had unhappy church experiences or who notice something is not right with their church.

It is a fact that some church goers, including the staff and preacher, are abusive and/or complete assholes.

If you have been hurt by church people, you have every right to be critical of churches and gun shy and hesitant to return. Paul said in the New Testament that Christians are to judge those within church, not to remain silent lest they commit “spiritual adultery” or whatever Challies is rambling on about.

The Challies’ of the world should spend more time comforting the Christian wounded and validating their crummy treatment at the hands of “Christians” than “tsk-tsking” and lecturing the un-churched for being upset over having been treated like shit by a church person or entire church system.

It’s also just plain WEIRD that this dude is attempting to work lust and adultery into his commentary about church… he is sexualizing church.

(Link): It’s Not Just a Guy Thing

    by Tim Challies

    Every guy has received a warning about “the second glance.” Here’s how it works: When you see an attractive woman, you are morally responsible for the second glance, not the first.

    Because you cannot help seeing what is there in front of you, the second glance is the one where you will display sin or virtue.

    It is here that you make the moral choice—the choice to lust or the choice to direct your eyes and your thoughts to something that honors God.

    I have never been completely comfortable with the second glance logic. More on that in a moment, but first we need to see that this is not only a guy thing.

    Women can have the same issue or one that is very closely related. For some women the issue is identical—looking with lust. For others it may be something else, such as alighting your eyes on someone who doesn’t fit in and then allowing yourself condescending thoughts about her.

    It may be thinking unkind thoughts about the immodest woman or the too-modest woman or the woman whose children are dressed so perfectly or so imperfectly.

    Whether you are a man or woman, you will be tempted at times to allow your eyes to direct you to people who will then take your thoughts in unholy directions. It is a universal problem.

    Back to the question: Is it only the second glance that counts? Yes and no.

    We have no ability to avoid seeing so much of what we see in the world. At some point we will all see something that feeds one of our great temptations.

    We will see someone who is dressed wildly inappropriately or someone who is shamelessly intending to draw attention to themselves. And then it is, indeed, the second glance that counts.

    Will we look again? Will we let our eyes linger? Will we look with lust or condescension or judgment? Will we allow this to be an opportunity to gossip? Or will we immediately and sinlessly direct our attention elsewhere?

    But here is where it gets a little more complicated. I think we all know by experience that there is more than one way our eyes can take in the world around us.

    We can walk into church with our hearts content and enjoying the good things God has given us. We can walk into the mall with our minds submitted to God and eager to please him. And in those times we undoubtedly struggle a lot less with second glances.

That was the first part of his post. I didn’t copy the whole thing.
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Related posts, this blog:

(Link): Anti Virginity Christian Blogger Tim Challies Now Writes: ’31 Days of Purity: My Identity’ – What?

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Married Christian Couples and Sexual Sin, More Examples – and Women and Porn

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): Dude Arguing for Legalization of Prostitution Uses Same Rationale as Christians Concerning Celibacy and Sexual Purity

(Link): Married (Christian) People Aren’t More Virtuous Than Christian Singles

(Link): How Christian Teachings on Marriage/ Singleness/ Gender Roles/ Dating Are Keeping Christian Singles Single

(Link): Married Women Engage in Sexual Sin – and most men in denial particularly Christian conservatives

(Link): Article: Our Born-Again Virgin Bachelor – Secondary or Spiritual Virginity

(Link): The ol’ Christian myth that married couples are impervious to sexual sin but singles have lots of sexual sin

(Link): Gotta Maintain that Propaganda that Married Christian Sex is “Mind Blowing”

(Link): Book Review at CP: Sex, Dating, and Relationships: The Dating Friendships Alternative

(Link): Critique of Christianity Today Article: The Real Value of Sex

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): Criticism of Purity Teachings by Christians via a Woman’s Personal Testimony

(Link): Christian Teachings on Relationships: One Reason Singles Are Remaining Single (even if they want to get married)

(Link): Anti Virginity Moore Opines on Dirty Web Sites * Irony Alert *

(Link): New Study Released: Cheaters: More American Married Women Admit to Adultery (links)

Sometimes Shame Guilt and Hurt Feelings Over Sexual Sins Is a Good Thing – but – Emergents, Liberals Who Are Into Virgin and Celibate Shaming

Sometimes Shame Guilt and Hurt Feelings Over Sexual Sins Is a Good Thing

If I see one more “Christian” writer blogging or podcasting about how Christians need to abandon virginity- until- marriage (a.k.a. sexual purity or celibacy) teachings and standards, which are biblical, I may puke.

It has become quite de rigueur in some Christian circles to bash virginity and celibacy these days.

Oddly, Christian emergents, such as Rachel Held Evans, post-Evangelical or ex-Christian writers, and some spiritual abuse bloggers, who usually try to be hyper-sensitive to people’s feelings, who will twist themselves into pretzels to defend homosexuals or homosexuality, will hypocritically often give no thought to trampling on the feelings of adult, Christian hetero virgins.

I would imagine that adult, Christian homosexual virgins might be offended by some of this same rhetoric aimed against celibacy sexual purity, and virginity as well; there are some Christians who have S.S.A., same sex attraction [homosexual leanings], but who have chosen to stay celibate.

How do you suppose the rants against sexual purity teachings and the whole-scale acceptance of homosexual behavior by fellow Christians makes them feel? I guess their feelings do not matter because they don’t neatly fit into the little politically correct box of the Christian homosexual agenda pushers?

I have a lot of respect for Christian homosexuals/SSA who are abstaining from sexual activity, who are celibate, due to allegiance to biblical teachings about sex. (And they do exist. I periodically come across an interview with Christian homosexual/SSA celibates on Christian podcast shows or in blogs.)

Some emergents and theologically/doctrinally liberal Christians go so far as to defend fornication (both homo and hetero varieties) and to advocate it, never mind bashing virginity and celibacy, such as:
(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

I recall reading a small article several years ago in a secular paper about secular culture. The author (and I’ve no idea what her religious views were), said part of the problem with American (secular) culture is that we have lost our sense of shame. I agree with this assessment.

The author said one reason we see so much trash and vulgarity in the media, why we see pop singers dancing around half naked on music shows, is that people have lost their sense of shame – and that is not always a good thing.

I portend the same thing has happened in Christian culture the last five or more years, especially when it comes to sex related sin.

Some Christians have been arguing on their blogs, books, magazine articles, in pod casts, and on radio shows, that Christians should cease from upholding biblical teachings on celibacy and virginity because such teachings (and the standards themselves) make people who have engaged in pre-marital sex (aka fornication) feel ashamed, guilty, bad, or flawed.

As a 40 something, hetero virgin -I chose to remain a virgin until marriage- I find this most puzzling.

I have managed to do what most Christians assume is the impossible: stayed a virgin into my 40s; obviously, I prove a person can live without sex.

No, I do not have a low libido; no I am not fat and ugly; yes I have been engaged to a man; yes, I have been flirted with and hit on by men (I am not ugly and fat).

I’m having a hard time seeing why Biblical teachings on sexual ethics should be tossed aside or ignored, merely because some have not lived up to those ethics, or that some who fornicated feel shameful or guilty when they hear such ethics taught.

I can just imagine if people who claim to be Christ followers used that criteria in other areas of life and sin:

    “Hi, my name is John Doe. I enjoy being a serial killer! I love strangling women to death. Every time I hear a Christian preacher mention that murder of humans is a sin, it makes me feel so guilty and ashamed. I think we should all just accept that some people like to murder, they cannot help it, and well, you Christians should drop that teaching to accomodate me and my feelings. I was born with these urges to kill. I have a need to kill. Respect my inclination to murder, and don’t judge me or make me feel ashamed for it.”

If your guilt or shame over murdering another person – or stealing, or having sex before marriage- compels you to cease such behavior, then I think that is a plus, not a minus.

God, if He exists, says in the Bible that He gave humanity consciences, so that when and if you do something wrong, yes, you will feel guilty and ashamed over it.

(Disclaimer: I am not saying someone who commits a sin and repents should feel guilt indefinitely. I’m not talking about “false guilt,” and that carried over a lifetime. These days, I see the opposite: people, including Christians, sadly, who try to hide away from feelings of guilt, shame, and condemnation at all costs.)

Instead of telling homo and hetero singles to go right ahead and feed their sexual desires, why not encourage them to hold on and remain virgins or celibate?

The Bible talks about Christians encouraging other Christians to hold on, hang in there, and complete the race.

The Bible does not tell Christians to tell other Christians, “When the going gets tough, just give up, and give in. Stop the race, go sit on the sideline. Being a virgin is so hard, so cave in, stop fighting it! Everyone else is having sex, so join them.”

However, many emergent Christians are basically carrying the banner for this “Just cave in and do it, then don’t feel guilty or shamed for it!” approach, which seems to be nothing more than the Least Common Denominator Approach, the Low Expectations Approach, or the Quitter Approach, rather than the the Over-comer, or Winner, or I Know You Can Do It approach.

Here is an editorial on the topic of shame:

(Link): Shame Can be Healthy When We Violate God’s Standards

by Trace Embry

There is a common belief among the politically correct “intelligentsia” that shame is not something our kids–or anyone else for that matter–ought to experience.

Even many Christians have bought into this idea.

Scripture; however, seems to make a different case. God has made us, and our kids, with the capacity for many emotions– shame being just one of them.

Confusion about this subject comes when someone attempts to force someone else to feel shame for something that God did not call shameful–like when a young child spills his milk or fails to control his bladder.

Even then, there comes a time and age when even these acts become inappropriate–perhaps even shameful– particularly if done with reckless frequency and without legitimate excuse, i.e., such as a physical or mental condition.

To remind an unrepentant child that he ought to be ashamed of himself for committing some blatant act of foolishness, abuse or other sinful activity can often be just good parenting. Or in the case of two adults, just being a good friend.

Proverbs 27: 6 says, “Wounds from a friend can be trusted; but, an enemy multiplies kisses.” Besides, aren’t there things that we should be ashamed of? The Bible doesn’t have much positive to say about a generation that does not even know how to blush.

Shame is often a component of true conviction which is fundamental to repentance. Shame is a legitimate emotion when God’s standards are violated. We need not be ashamed of who we are, but rather for what we do.

Confusion can also come in when we are made to be ashamed of who we are. Knowing that we are created by God in the image of God should remind us that we should never be ashamed of who we are. As the saying goes, “God does not make junk!” What God has created; however, can create junk–junk that we should be ashamed of creating. And sometimes it takes someone else to remind us that we should feel ashamed for creating it.

When Nathan the prophet told King David, “You are the man.” I doubt he expected David to feel like a winner in that moment. David’s emotions were completely appropriate for that moment.

Shame is actually a good emotion; for, like pain, it is an alarm that tells us something is not right.

And, like pain, it is also a motivator to start heading in the right direction. Feeling no shame is how our society has arrived at its current moral condition.

Pop psychology–not Scripture–is where this notion of shame being a naughty word came from. Views on psychology are continually changing, while God’s Word remains trustworthy through the ages. So, remember that anyone who shames you into believing that shame is a shame is a sham.

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Related posts this blog:

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link):  Why Progressive Christians Are Ineffective and Unpersuasive by P. Heck – Also: How Liberals Can Avoid Turning Off Right Wingers

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link): Anti-Porn Activist: ‘Ethically Sourced’ Porn ‘Sounds Like an Oxymoron’

(Link):  CDC Report: Virgin Teens Much Healthier Than Their Sexually Active Peers (2016 Report)

(Link): Confusing Sexual Assault and Sexual Abuse with Consensual Sex and Then Condemning Sexual Purity Teachings – and other, related topics

(Link):  Our Bodies Were Not Made for Sex by T. Swann

(Link): Warning: This Column Will Offend You – by M. Moynihan (Re: Trigger Warnings in Written Material, Terms such as slut shaming, man-splain, etc)

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Link): Sex, Love & Celibacy by Dan Navin [who is a Christian homosexual celibate]

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): To Get Any Attention or Support from a Church These Days you Have To Be A Stripper, Prostitute, or Orphan

(Link): Virgin – and Celibate – Shaming : Christian Double Standards – Homosexuals Vs Hetero Singles – Concerning Thabiti Anyabwile and Gag Reflexes

(Link): Dude Arguing for Legalization of Prostitution Uses Same Rationale as Christians Concerning Celibacy and Sexual Purity

(Link): The Activist Who Says Being Gay Is Not A Sin – double standards for homo singles vs hetero singles

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Students Discuss Dissatisfaction with “Hookup Culture” [Casual Sex, Fornication, Pre Marital Sex]

(Link): The ol’ Christian myth that married couples are impervious to sexual sin but singles have lots of sexual sin

(Link): Why So Much Fornication – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): Rare Reminders from Christians on Recent Broadcasts that Fornication is Wrong and That Older Celibates Exist

(Link): The Trivialization of Sex (a post by A. Hamilton)

(Link): Confessions of a 25-year-old Christian virgin (article) – and related info

(Link): CDC Reports Rare Lesbian HIV Transmission Case

(Link): Slut Shaming and Virgin Shaming and Secular and Christian Culture – Dirty Water / Used Chewing Gum and the CDC’s Warnings – I guess the CDC is a bunch of slut shamers ?

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming
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Related post, off site:

(Link): Same-Sex Marriage and the Single Christian – How marriage-happy churches are unwittingly fueling same-sex coupling—and leaving singles like me in the dust.

Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

With virginity and celibacy under regular attack from much of Non Christian culture, such as with recent books such as ‘The Purity Myth,’ by Jessica Valenti (I assume she is a Non Christian, though I may be wrong; but certainly, and by one method of several, by using most Hollywood movies as a barometer to judge Non Christian feelings about the topics, as most films do not depict flattering portrayals of virgins or virginity, so I take it the average Non Christian may think virginity is strange or bad), one would expect Christians would want to jump to defend the concepts, but, in the last few years, they’ve been among the very first in line to say, and to cave in and join the Non Christian anti-virginity chorus saying, such teachings are “dangerous” to women, while some say they are “hurtful.”

While I agree with Valenti’s presmise that culture (and this would include Christian culture) can or does twist virginity to such a degree that women are judged only in terms of their sexuality, and this is not good, I do not agree with others (I’m not sure of Valenti’s position specifically) that teachings about sexual purity should be abandoned altogether – if one chooses to be a Bible-believing Christian, I should say.

I myself am on the verge of becoming agnostic after years of having been a conservative Christian. Despite this, I tend to view these debates about sex, modesty teachings, celibacy and virginity through a biblical lens, especially if a Christian is discussing these topics, or if the arguments apparently conflict with the Bible. (At other times, I do waffle and view them from an agnostic position.)

If one is going to be a Christian, I see no room for disputing that the Bible says that women -and men- are called to remain virgins until marriage.

If you are a Christian who is having sex outside of marriage, that is your choice, but do not try to defend that choice -and I have, yes, seen self- professing Christians use all the following rationaliztions – by saying things such as: the Bible supports fornication;
or the Bible is too vague for us to know for sure what God thinks about pre-marital sex, so let us overlook it; or,
other Christians (these are usually liberals or emergents) insist that that the biblical teachings about sexual purity should be ignored because they sometimes hurt the feelings of fornicators, rape victims, or child sexual abuse victims.

It should go without saying that of course rape victims and child sexual abuse victims are not to blame for having been violated.

That sexual abuse victims unfortunately feel uncomfortable by virginity teachings or sexual purity teachings is less evidence that such teachings are erroneous or cruel in and of themselves, and perhaps more of an indicator that the conveyors of such teachings, such as church youth pastors, may be framing the discussions in an unnecessarily hurtful or condescending manner (by comparing fornicators to used chewing gum, for instance, which yes, I grant, may be insulting).

However, that some Christian youth speakers or pulpit-pounding, legalistic preachers tend to convey sex sermons and teachings in an unloving manner does not change the fact that the Bible supports virginity- until- marriage, celibacy, and chastity.

There are some Christians, who dispute the use of the terms “fornication” and “fornicator” when discussing sexual topics, as they feel it is insulting to people who have in the past fornicated, or who currently fornicate. I use these terms only for breveity’s sake. They are not intended by me to be derogatory.

It’s a hell of a lot easier to type out the word “fornicator,” than the long, meandering description, “one who has sex outside of / before marriage.”

Strangely, nobody, not even most Christians who dispute the use of the word “fornicate,” seem to mind the weird, and not- mentioned- in- the- Bible, trend lately where Christian fornicators get to call themselves “born again virgins,” “spiritual virgins,” or “secondary virgins,” if only they promise in public to have repented of their sexual shenanigans. Why the double standards on terminlogy?

Christians are calling for other Christians, including those who have actually remained virgins into their adulthood, to tip toe around the sensitive feelings of those who have fornicated, yet those pushing this insane agenda do not care at all that their downgrading of the importance of virginity and celibacy is not only insulting and hurtful to actual virgins, but that it removes any remaining impetus for us to remain chaste any longer.

And I note a tad of hypocrisy on display: many of the Christians asking adult virgin Christians to be more tolerant and understanding of rampant sexual sin and who implore adult virgins not to take virginity so seriously, sometimes end their blog postings with the end notes reading thusly: “author John. W. Smith; married 20 years, father of three,” or, “Mary Jones, phD in literature, married eight years, mother of two.” They are not virgins themselves but feel fine lecturing virgins.

Here I have carried out the “be a virgin because you’re not married” biblical mandate, and I’m over the age of 40, yet these buffoons, these Christian bloggers who are getting their sexual and companionship needs consistently satisfied, are presuming to dress me, or those like me, down? I don’t think so.

Separate from your spouse for the next twenty five years, live alone, give up all sex and contact, then, and only then, write a blog post about all this, please… and then let’s see what your position is on the topic. I have a sneaking suspicion your views will have shifted at least a tad.

Christians, even preachers and Christian professional authors and bloggers, are now showing far more concern over the feelings and considerations of sexual sinners, helping them getting their needs met, and offering them encouragement and a sense of community, than they are in helping or supporting adult Christians who are sexually abstaining, and who are actually following the Bible’s teachings on sexual mores. This is a disgusting double standard and very upside down.

To add further insult to injury, and diminish virginity even more, adult virgins such as myself, or author Julia Duin, who point out the hypocrisy, the lack of support for the truly celibate single, and the sexual failings of the Christian culture, are chided, insulted, and reprimanded by preachers and professional Christian authors in their blogs, magazines, and editorials over this.

I never thought I would see the day, but this kind of attack on virginity – and by Christians – is becoming a horrifying, regular occurence in American Christendom.

Adult Christian virgins get scolded and chided – by (married authors- that is, ‘having sex occasionally authors,’ I should add again) Christians, no less, and it’s mind boggling – for defending the very biblical standard of ‘virginity- unti- marriage,’ to be told that we are not loving, we are prideful, and we also get these nauseating, non-sensical, sappy, maudlin comments, courtesy Christian Tim Challies, such as, “we are all virgins now.” (More on that farther below.)

Per the last point on the list: not all guilt is a bad thing, according to the Bible. Christians are supposed to feel convicted for any sin they commit, which usually translates as feelings of guilt. There is such a thing as “false” guilt, to be sure – but in so far that the Bible teaches that pre-marital sex is wrong, if you do not feel the least bit guilty for having engaged in that particular sin, and yet you claim to be a Christian, there might be something wrong with your conversion experience, or your fidelty to Biblical teachings.

This is not to say that anyone guilty of any sin should spend years wallowing in hatred of self or in self-unforgiveness, but the attitude I pick up in contemporary Christian views about sexual sin on blogs and in some books is to dismiss it out of hand, especially because teachings of sexual purity makes people feel ashamed or guilty, which is not, in my view, biblical.

Turning attention to Challies’ anti- virginity post. Notice like in Moore’s anti-virginity posting, Challies also offers the obligatory “I support celibacy and virginity” commentary, but then spends the rest of the discussion nullifying those sentiments. Here are excerpts (his editorial is hosted on his own blog, and at Christian Post):

(Link 1): We Are All Virgins Now, by Tim Challies (on Challies’ Blog)

(Link 2): We Are All Virgins Now, by Tim Challies (on CP)

These are excperts. If you wish to read the Challies post in its entirety, please click one of the links above.

[by Tim Challies]

  • We Evangelicals are known for our obsession with virginity. Now don’t get me wrong—I affirm that it is good and God-honoring to remain sexually pure before marriage (and within marriage and after marriage). As a pastor I want to teach the people in my care the value of having their first sexual experiences with their spouse in the marriage bed and not with a prom date in the back of a car. I want my children to value sexual purity and to understand that lust is not love, that love expresses itself in self-control. Virginity matters because sexual purity matters because God says it matters. But it is not the highest of virtues. It is not the measure of a godly young man or young woman. It is not the goal and the measure of Christian living.
  • This Evangelical obsession with virginity manifests itself in youth conferences where a flower is passed around a room, going from hand to hand, until the speaker can hold it up, all bent and twisted, and ask with a knowing grin, “Who would want a rose like this?” The teens look and say, “I would never want a rose like that.” But then there are the few who silently look away and weep because they are that rose. They learn they have been spoiled, that their beauty has been given away. (As Matt Chandler reminds us, Jesus wants the rose!)
  • … It is painful to those who were raised in ignorance of what God commands, who simply acted the way unbelievers will act as they committed sexual sin. 
  • … It is particularly painful to those whose virginity was taken from them, who were unwilling participants in abuse or rape. They may feel spoiled
  • This whole obsession with virginity misses one New Testament key, the gospel key…
  • …Paul tells us that in God’s eyes we are all holy. Through Christ we are all redeemed, all forgiven, all made new, all unspoiled. In Christ we are all virgins.

Here I will address a few of Challies’ specific comments (I have dealt with some of his other points in other posts at my blog, and I do not wish to rehash them all here and now; please see my previous posts); Challies wrote:

  • This obsession with virginity….

The only Christians “obsessing” about virginity the past few years, are youth preachers at youth rallies, and those Christians who are not virgins: the fornicators themselves and the married (who are presumably having sex regularly with their spouses). They are the ones writing these types of editorials besmirching virgins and virginity, or seeking to have both diminished.

I’ve yet to see an adult Christian virgin past the age of 35 write one of these attacks on celibacy and virginity, or asking for untold amounts of lovey, sugary, sprinkles sprinkled with an extra dash of understanding atop the sexual sin ice cream cone.

Challies wrote,

  • Not only that, but this obsession causes such pain. Elevating virginity to the first place among the virtues…

And knocking virginity down the totem pole a few notches to soothe the hurt feelings of sexual sinners is the approach you think the Christian community should take? Keep robbing older virgins of a reason to stay pure, by all means.

Challies wrote,

  • It is painful to those who were raised in ignorance of what God commands, who simply acted the way unbelievers will act as they committed sexual sin. …

As I have discussed before on my blog (please use the drop down menu and look for the tag “married people sexual sin”to find examples), I have seen countless testimonies in Christian magazines, blogs, and television programs of married Christian people who say they were committed Christians and that they knew adultery and pornography was wrong, but who engage in both types of sexual sin anyway.

I have also blogged about Christians who say that while single, they knew that fornication was a sin, yet who say they fornicated anyway, and some went so far as to also work in strip clubs, work for X- rated movie productions, and work as prostitutes. Not all Christians who sexually sin are acting out of “ignorance.” Please do not insult my intelligence on this point.

Given the immense amount of sexual purity lectures Christian young people get from Christian sources while they are teens and early 20- something, it is inconceivable to me how anyone in this day and age can grow up as a Christian, hit their mid twenties or older, and not realize that the Bible instructs a person to save sexual activity for marriage.

The young ‘uns get bombarded with sexual purity lectures from the church as kids (at least this was true of many evangelical and Baptist churches in the 1980s and 1990s – as of the last few years, it has become unfashionable for seeker friendly and other types of churches to actually confront sexual sin). When you remain a Christian virgin into your late 20s and older, the church drops the topic of celibacy, virginity, and sexual purity.

There are no support groups, no regularly issued literature (such as magazines) for adult Christian virgins past the age of 25. That Challies can claim that most, or all, of the Christians fornicating ‘out of ignorance’ is laughable and implausible. Christian teens hear about sexual purity quite often; the only sex talk adults get from the church is: “Remember, married women, husbands like sex, so perform sexually all the time!”

Challies wrote,

  • God does not look upon his people as non-virgins and virgins, spoiled and unspoiled, defiled and undefiled. He does not see two classes of people: those who have waited to experience sex within marriage and those have not…. In Christ we are all virgins.

Aw, that sounds so sweet, but it makes my former choice to remain a virgin until marriage very moot. I tell you what, as soon as I get a boyfriend after I move the next year or two, and we start having pre-marital sex, I’ll just go back and re-read those last lines.

Apparently, the phrases and words, “non-virgins,” “virgins,” “defiled,” and “undefiled” and so on, have no meaning. God does not differentiate on those terms, neither should we. I was brought up that every single last word of the Bible, in so far as it has been accurately translated, of course, was there for a reason, that the Holy Spirit put great thought for each and every word and verse, and it’s there for a reason. Now Challies is saying not so.

It’s all fine and dandy to remind sexual sinners that God is loving and forgiving, but really, do Christians have to do so at the expense of running virginity, and actual virgins, down in the process?

I guess if you want to be one of the popular cool kids like the emergents, the popular thing to do these days is bad mouth virginity.

A visitor to Challies’ blog thinks Christians should use the term or concept “recovered virginity.”

Why do Christians keep inventing these bogus terms to re-state or sugar coat the term “sexual sin” or “sexual sinner?” Your good, old- fashioned virgin bristles at mis-use of the term “virgin” to ease guilty consciences of sexual sinners. If you have sexually sinned, God will forgive you, but you are in no way, shape, or form a “virgin,” not even in a spiritual-allegorical sense, I am oh- so- sorry to say.

It is editorials like this one about virginity by Challies (and the previous one by Moore), among other reasons I have, that has been driving me away from the Christian faith and into the arms of agnosticism. The things I was taught to believe from childhood onwards about God, the Bible, Jesus, sex, and marriage are all dismissed by Christians today as though they mean nothing, or as though those beliefs were wrong the whole time.

Congratulations, Challies, for being yet another step in the staircase leading me farther away from God and away from any previously held notions about reserving sex for marriage.

Doesn’t the Bible say that teachers will be held more accountable by God than regular joe’s like me, due to the fact that some of their teachings would cause some to stray or fall away?
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Related posts, this blog:

(Link):  Christians Want to Hold Adulterers Accountable but Give Adult Single Fornicators a Pass

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link):  Tim Challies, Who Is Fine With Single Adults Fornicating, Is Not Okay With Fake Sex on TV, As Portrayed by Married Actors

(Link): Anti-Porn Activist: ‘Ethically Sourced’ Porn ‘Sounds Like an Oxymoron’

(Link): Anti Virginity Christian Blogger Tim Challies Now Writes: ’31 Days of Purity: My Identity’ – What?

(Link):  An Example of Mocking Adult Virginity Via Twitter (Virginity Used As Insult)

(Link): Stop Rewarding People For Their Failure – Christians Speaking Out of Both Sides of Their Mouths About Sexual Sin – Choices and Actions and How You Teach This Stuff Has Consequences

(Link):  CDC Report: Virgin Teens Much Healthier Than Their Sexually Active Peers (2016 Report)

(Link): A Day In The Life Of An Abstinence Ed Teacher by S. Gomez

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity (they attack both concepts)

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Married Christian Couples and Sexual Sin, More Examples – and Women and Porn

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): Editorialist at WaPo Argues That Single Christian Adults Can Have Sex So Long As They are Chaste About It – Also Speculates that Jesus Was “Probably” Celibate

(Link): Dude Arguing for Legalization of Prostitution Uses Same Rationale as Christians Concerning Celibacy and Sexual Purity

(Link): Married (Christian) People Aren’t More Virtuous Than Christian Singles

(Link): How Christian Teachings on Marriage/ Singleness/ Gender Roles/ Dating Are Keeping Christian Singles Single

(Link): Married Women Engage in Sexual Sin – and most men in denial particularly Christian conservatives

(Link): Article: Our Born-Again Virgin Bachelor – Secondary or Spiritual Virginity

(Link): The ol’ Christian myth that married couples are impervious to sexual sin but singles have lots of sexual sin

(Link): Gotta Maintain that Propaganda that Married Christian Sex is “Mind Blowing”

(Link): Book Review at CP: Sex, Dating, and Relationships: The Dating Friendships Alternative

(Link): Critique of Christianity Today Article: The Real Value of Sex

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): Criticism of Purity Teachings by Christians via a Woman’s Personal Testimony

(Link): Christian Teachings on Relationships: One Reason Singles Are Remaining Single (even if they want to get married)

(Link): Anti Virginity Moore Opines on Dirty Web Sites * Irony Alert *

(Link): New Study Released: Cheaters: More American Married Women Admit to Adultery (links)

(Link): CDC Reports Rare Lesbian HIV Transmission Case

(Link): Slut Shaming and Virgin Shaming and Secular and Christian Culture – Dirty Water / Used Chewing Gum and the CDC’s Warnings – I guess the CDC is a bunch of slut shamers ?