Nobody Bats An Eye at Condemnation of Hetero Sexual Sin – Observations from Duck Dynasty Controversy

Nobody Bats An Eye at Condemnation of HETERO Sexual Sin – Observations from Duck Dynasty Controversy

Duck Dynasty is not a show I watch. I’ve only seen a few moments of it while channel surfing. It’s a reality show on cable channel A&E.

One of the show’s members, a Phil Robertson, got into hot water a few days ago when comments he made about sin in an interview for a magazine were published on the internet.

Here are some of Robertson’s quotes (Link): Source: LA TIMES

    “Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men,” he tells reporter Drew Magary.

    “Don’t be deceived. Neither the adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers, the swindlers— they won’t inherit the kingdom of God. Don’t deceive yourself. It’s not right.”

    He also muses rather colorfully about his own sexual orientation: “It seems like, to me, a vagina —as a man— would be more desirable than a man’s anus. That’s just me. I’m just thinking: There’s more there! She’s got more to offer. I mean, come on, dudes! You know what I’m saying? But hey, sin: It’s not logical, my man. It’s just not logical.”

Despite the fact the man named numerous sins, including sexual sins committed by HETERO-sexuals, as well as idolatry, greed, and swindling, most people have for some odd reason, decided to get selectively outraged primarily over his views about HOMOsexuality (a lesser number are upset over his comments about race relations, which I won’t be discussing).

Nobody seems to care that Robertson called out HETERO fornication or HETERO adultery as being sins. They’re only flipping out over his mention of homosexuality. I think that speaks volumes more about people making the criticisms and the overall culture than it does Robertson himself or his views.

I wonder if acceptance of hetero sexual sins has become so ingrained in our nation, that is why people can’t be bothered to get worked up over Robertson’s saying the Bible condemns hetero sins of the sexual variety?

Why do people only go up in arms over homosexuality being referred to as a sin, but nobody gets angry or offended over him mentioning that lying, greed, and idolatry, or hetero affairs are wrong?

It’s also interesting that homosexuals, and their hetero supporters, are choosing to perceive his comments as him equating homosexuality with bestiality and terrorism.

I am a HETERO myself, but despite the fact Robertson named greed, idolatry and bestiality along with HETERO sexual sins does not mean I choose to interpret that as meaning he was saying that all hetero sexuals have sex with animals, are greedy, or are idolaters.

Why do homosexuals choose to include homosexuals with bestiality, idolatry, drunkenness, and the other behaviors Robertson mentioned?

I think it may say something about your world view or morality that you mentally include yourself with others on a list of unrelated behaviors, or automatically assume that was what the commentator was doing.

Continue reading “Nobody Bats An Eye at Condemnation of Hetero Sexual Sin – Observations from Duck Dynasty Controversy”

Permissiveness, Cheap Grace, and Easy Forgivism Run Amok in Christianity – Dallas Preacher Todd Wagner Says Christians Can Use Heroin (parallel to topic of sex, celibacy) / Why some Christians turn agnostic

Permissiveness, Cheap Grace, and Easy Forgivism Run Amok in Christianity – Dallas Preacher Todd Wagner Says Christians Can Use Heroin / Why some Christians turn agnostic

Christian radio host Janet Mefferd recently discussed a preacher of a Dallas mega-church named Todd Wagner who said it’s okay for Christians to use heroin, or he pretty much said so.

Wagner was answering in response to a question from a viewer who wanted to know if it’s okay for Christians to drink alcohol.

You can listen to that Mefferd show here:
(Link): Janet Mefferd Show-11/20/2013

Before I get to the specific Wagner story:

Mefferd mentions a story about a preacher being arrested for drug dealing. This story:
(Link): Former Pastor Arrested In Record-Breaking Ky. Pill Bust

    Reported by Kallie Cart
    Reported: Nov. 15, 2013 12:10 PM EST

    A former pastor has been arrested in a major drug trafficking bust in Kentucky.

    Members of the fade drug task force in Kentucky said Scott Gilliam, the pastor of Perry’s Branch Holiness Tabernacle in Olive Hill, was using his former church as part of a major drug enterprise.

Mefferd also mentions this story:
(Link): Local (Florida) pastor arrested for drugs

Mefferd also mentioned this next story. This preacher thinks selling drugs is okay, as long as you also do charity work in your spare time, and hand out free drug samples to junkies so they will consider converting to Christianity:

(Link): Arizona pastor busted for dealing heroin and meth did it for ‘spiritual purposes’

    -Pastor Mark Derksen told police his drugs brought users ‘closer to God’
    -Derksen often gave free samples to convert new believers

Back to the “heroin is just peachy” preacher, Wagner.

Mefferd has audio clips of the guy, Wagner, (Link): on her site mentioning that heroin use is just peachy.

Wagner’s church also has a video channel on You Tube that you can check out here:
(Link): Watermark Church channel

After a glance over their You Tube channel, I am not seeing any video about the alcohol and heroin comments that Mefferd references.

Mefferd said she got her audio clips from a Wagner podcast.

Wagner’s podcast can be accessed here:
(Link): Wagner Podcast (on i Tunes)
(Link): Is it Wrong for Christians to Drink Alcohol?? – by Wagner (on podbay)

You can also read Wagner’s blog about the alcohol question, but the response about alcohol apparently was taken from “got questions.com” site and does not appear to contain the heroin remark:

(Link): Can a Christian Drink Alcohol? – Words from Wags

Here I thought “Christian Pundit” (name of my blog) was pretty lame or dull, but “Words from Wags” has me beat on the lame-o-meter.

Here are some excerpts from Can a Christian Drink Alcohol? – Words from Wags, which seems to be quoting a site called “got questions”:

    [quoting Got Questions]

    … However, Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol.

    … What God commands Christians regarding alcohol is to avoid drunkenness (Ephesians 5:18).

    The Bible condemns drunkenness and its effects (Proverbs 23:29-35).

    Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be “mastered” by anything (1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Drinking alcohol in excess is undeniably addictive.

    Scripture also forbids a Christian from doing anything that might offend other Christians or encourage them to sin against their conscience (1 Corinthians 8:9-13).

    In light of these principles, it would be extremely difficult for any Christian to say he is drinking alcohol in excess to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31).

More excerpts from Can a Christian Drink Alcohol? – Words from Wags, and these appear to be written by Wagner himself or another staffer:

    Am I/Will I be mastered by this activity. Specifically, is this now, or could this become, a coping strategy or idol or addiction that takes the place of God in my life? (1 Corinthians 6:12)

    Is it profitable/beneficial (1 Corinthians 6:12)?

    Will it cause the/my ministry to be discredited in any way? (2 Corinthians 6:1-3)

    Could it cause other believers to stumble/be confused if they saw me engaging in this activity (1 Corinthians 8:9-13)?

    Does it help me to make disciples/advance the Gospel (Matthew 28:19-20)?

    Am I living under a yoke of legalism that doesn’t honor the Gospel? Am I limiting my freedom in Christ for any reason other than my love for Him or my concern for others (Galatians 5:1)?

I don’t see any mention of heroin in skimming that page over, but Wagner does mention heroin in the audio clip provided by Mefferd at the link at the top of this page.

You’ll notice in the responses above that a lot of those arguments could apply to sexual morality, too.

Regarding these quotes:

    Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be “mastered” by anything (1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19).

    Am I/Will I be mastered by this activity. Specifically, is this now, or could this become, a coping strategy or idol or addiction that takes the place of God in my life? (1 Corinthians 6:12)

For example, I have been saying all along that every human being, but Christians especially, have self-control over sex: they do not have to give in to a sexual urge.

The Bible never says that chastity or celibacy are only “gifted to a few by God.”

The Bible actually makes sexual purity a commandment for all Christians, yet most Christians today act as though celibacy, singleness, and virginity, are the perview of only a tiny minority of believers, and at that, ones who God chose in eternity past to be single and chaste.

The Bible never says God calls, or gifts, or chooses anyone to be single; that is a matter God leaves up to the individual to decide for him or herself.

A few negative results of teaching the opposite belief in these areas is we have preachers, Christian book authors, and bloggers who teach and repeat erroneous notions such as…

    1. marry early because no person is capable of sexually abstaining past one’s early or mid 20s;

    2. men, even Christian males, are sex-obsessed, dangerous raping sex fiends, so women should never be left alone with men (this hampers women being able to form platonic friendships, as well as getting married);

    3. the Christian un-married are barred from working as teachers, leaders, and preachers and other positions of responsibility or authority within Christian circles on the assumption they cannot control their sexual urges and will make passes at any persons under their charge;

    4. gender stereotyping, such as:
    only men want sex and only men are visually stimulated;
    women are emotionally led only in relationships and should be pretty and thin all the time, to appeal to the visually oriented males (this leads to allowing men to feel they can be sloppy- looking, and some females develop eating disorders, poor self esteem, etc)

The negative impacts of Christians teaching and supporting the view that “believers are gifted by God with celibacy / singlehood, and only some are called/gifted in this way” is one reason I encourage all singles to stop endorsing it. If you are an unmarried person using that rhetoric, you are causing more harm to your side.

While the Bible makes clear that God respects singleness and celibacy (and married Christians need to be reminded of this), it does not say God “gifts it” to individuals, that God chooses who will be single.

I know on this blog, I ordinarily discuss Christian views on marriage, dating, sex, and so on, but these comments about this Dallas preacher who talks about heroin are related, if you stop and think about it.

I am not a supporter of legalism. I want to make that clear.

On the other hand, I’m not a fan of this permissiveness and easy-forgivism, anything goes flavor of Christianity, I am seeing from preachers and Christians today.
(please click the ‘read more’ link below to read the rest of this post.)

Continue reading “Permissiveness, Cheap Grace, and Easy Forgivism Run Amok in Christianity – Dallas Preacher Todd Wagner Says Christians Can Use Heroin (parallel to topic of sex, celibacy) / Why some Christians turn agnostic”

Old School Cheesy ‘True Love Waits’ Video and Non-Christian Reaction (Christian video about Virginity and Sex)

Old School Cheesy ‘True Love Waits’ Video and Non-Christian Reaction

The reason I have stayed a virgin, and I’m past 40, is due to several reasons, but one of them is not due to cheesy videos such as the one below, which appears to have been filmed in the 1990s, or possibly the 1980s, judging upon the appearance of the clothing, music, and bands interviewed.

TLW (“True Love Waits”) is a little after my time. I was in my twenties when TLW started. I found it a little odd at the time and still do.

Support for celibacy/virginity comes by treating singles (celibates) as equals, and doing things such as inviting lonely, adult singles over for holiday dinners, permitting them equal leadership positions in churches, and not by gimmicky, schlocky TLW videos.

If you look at the comments left by visitors below the video on the You Tube page, most people are scoffing at the video for one reason or another.

I first became aware of this video on a page that found it via the CN -“Christian Nightmares” – blog.

It’s been a while since I’ve read about the CN blog, but if memory serves, the person behind it is either an atheist who never was a believer, or is an ex Christian (I don’t remember which).

But the point is that this video below is on a blog conducted and usually visited by people who are hostile towards Christianity or towards Christians, who feel that most Christians are unloving, hypocritical, or judgmental.

Sometimes I do think that critics of Christianity have valid complaints about the faith or how Christians in general behave, and at other times, I find their complaints unfair or exaggerated.

Most people leaving comments under the video on the video’s You Tube page make fun of the clothing of the people in the video or what have you, but there are attitudes such as this:

    MisterInfide
    l8 months ago

    Brilliant scam for controlling people. First, go after teenagers because their mental faculties aren’t fully formed yet and they long for acceptance and approval. Then take one of their natural impulses and build all kinds of taboos around it. Then force it into a tiny, restrictive box and heap guilt and shame upon any expression that falls outside the box. Then use that guilt and shame to coerce them into a lifetime of unthinking conformity and, incidentally, ten percent of their income.

Granted, having a cheese-ball video like this TLW video may not do much to foster positive attitudes towards virginity and celibacy, but I feel “MisterIndidel8” and those like him toss the baby out with the bathwater.

I am so tired of living in a culture that holds certain attitudes, such as, all Christian kids (or adults) who abstain from sex are only doing so because they were brainwashed or are too ignorant to know better.

I made a decision for me when I was a kid to wait until marriage, largely based upon reading what the Bible had to say about sexual morality, so it’s not entirely true that I was “brainwashed.”

I do think Christian culture left me with some warped ideas and broken promises, though, which I’ve mentioned in previous posts.

Those warped ideas (about sex, marriage, dating) I was presented with as a teen and early 20 something have played a partial role in why I have now reconsidered some of my views pertaining to Christianity in general and sexuality in particular, now that I am over age 40.

The fact that this TLW video was even on a site such as “Christian Nightmares” tells me that more than likely, some ex- Christians (or atheists) think the concepts of virginity and celibacy are naive, stupid, and idiotic.

It also teels me that there is possibly a lack of respect for an individual having strong sexual boundaries and choosing to abstain, which I find hypocritical, since often times, Non Christian society expects every one not only to tolerate the sexual choices and behaviors of Non Christians, but to CELEBRATE those choices and behaviors, or risk being thought a homophobe, repressed, or a prude.

While I am not necessarily a supporter of phenomenons such as “True Love Waits,” or gimmicks shown in the video, such as having teenagers drive pegs into the lawn as a gesture representing their commitment to hold on to their virginity, I also can’t get on board with people who would ridicule or joke about those people’s decisions to abstain.

Non-Christians, and some Christians (such as liberals, anti virginity conservatives, feminist Christians, and emergents), do not want to be judged for their sexual actions and sexual choices, or those of their friends, but they sure as hell have no qualms about mocking or judging the sexual choices of virgins or celibates. This is a double standard I see time and again.

My one other criticism of the video or entire TLW movement is that you’ll notice that it is youth-focused. Not that I’m saying I’m in agreement with the TLW approach (eg, making videos), but it’s another bit of evidence of ageism in the church that there are no similar programs or videos giving encouragement for adults past 30 who are holding on to their virginity.

It is always assumed by the majority of Christians that everyone will marry by the age of 25 or 30 and start having sex, when some adults find ourselves unwillingly still single past our mid 30s, and yes, some of us are still virgins.

In the video, I heard several comments by various adults that sounded suspiciously close to the usual propaganda and platitudes Christians give teens about sex (ones which I’ve blogged about before), such as one adult in the video who says something such as, “waiting for marriage is worth it!,” which is a variation on the Christian line, “married sex is mind blowing, so wait until you get married, kids!” As I’ve posted about several times, people who are virgins until marriage don’t always have a spectacular sex life.

(Link): True Love Waits video, Million Virgin March (on You Tube)


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Related posts this blog:

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

(Link): The Contemporary Church Undervalues Celibacy / Virginity

(Link): Discouraging the Virtuous by Julia Duin – Sex and Never Married Single Christians

(Link): Famous Historical Christian Figure Expects Everyone To Fail At Sexual Purity

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): When Adult Virginity and Adult Celibacy Are Viewed As Inconvenient or As Impediments

(Link): The Activist Who Says Being Gay Is Not A Sin – double standards for homo singles vs hetero singles

(Link): More Married Couples Admit to Sexless Marriages (various articles) / Christians promise you great frequent sex if you wait until marriage, but the propaganda is not true

(Link): Resident Christian Marriage Advice Writer at Christian Mag Admits Some Christian Marriages are Sexless

(Link): Singles and the Church: Why It Sucks to be Unintentionally Overlooked (from The Sexy Celibate blog)

(Link): The Trivialization of Sex (a post by A. Hamilton)

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re Celibacy

(Link): There is No Such Thing as a Gift of Singleness or Gift of Celibacy or A Calling To Either One

(Link): Single Adults – Why They Stay and Why They Stray From Church – Book Excerpts

(Link): Article: Our Born-Again Virgin Bachelor – Secondary or Spiritual Virginity

(Link): Being Equally Yoked: Christian Columnist Dan Delzell Striving to Keep Christian Singles Single Forever

(Link): Obnoxious and Sexist Preacher Mark Driscoll Wants Christian Singles to Stay Single Indefinitely – And Even Though Unwanted, Prolonged Singleness has Been a Huge Issue For Christian Singles for A Couple Decades Now – Driscoll: ‘Christians should not marry pro choicers’

(Link): Preachers and Christian Media Personalities: Re: Marriage – You’re missing the point stop trying to argue or shame singles into getting married

(Link): Regarding the post “Abstinence is unrealistic and old fashioned” at The Matt Walsh Blog vis a vis Stuff Christian Culture Likes group

(Link): To Get Any Attention or Support from a Church These Days you Have To Be A Stripper, Prostitute, or Orphan

(Link): Sex is Always the Solution – supposedly, according to Christian writers and preachers. (Also: Christian married men feel entitled to sex, contra 1 Corinthians 7:5.)

(Link): Her Marriage is Sexless While She Cares For Sick Elderly Father

(Link): Wife Writes to Ask Amy About Her Sexless Marriage October 2013

(Link): Why Christians Need to Uphold Lifelong Celibacy as an Option for All Instead of Merely Pressuring All to Marry – vis a vis Sexless Marriages, Counselors Who Tell Marrieds that Having Affairs Can Help their Marriages

Regarding the post “Abstinence is unrealistic and old fashioned” at The Matt Walsh Blog vis a vis Stuff Christian Culture Likes group

Regarding the post “Abstinence is unrealistic and old fashioned” at The Matt Walsh Blog vis a vis Stuff Christian Culture Likes group

This blog post originally came to my attention via the ‘Stuff Christian Culture Likes’ Facebook group, which is maintained by Stephanie Drury.

I do at times agree with some of Drury’s views, but not always.

Based on Drury’s introductory comments of this Matt guy’s post on her Facebook group page (which are, “I’d be really interested to see how this guy’s marriage is doing in, say, five or ten years.”), she seems to take a dim view of the Christian stance on teachings of celibacy and sexual purity, which is what Matt Walsh is promoting on his blog.

It’s interesting and a bit hypocritical that Drury would assume Walsh’s marriage will suck eggs and come to a crashing, fiery end in ten years time due to his belief in biblical sexual purity teachings but that she also bristles at the guy’s view that pre-marital sex can damage a person, or damage a future marriage.

As I’ve noted before in other posts on this blog, a lot of ex-Christians, or feminist or liberal Christians, throw the baby out with the bathwater on issues pertaining to sexual purity, celibacy and virginity – because some churches have dealt with sexual purity teachings in a harsh manner, some of these ex Christians or liberals feel churches should scrap such teachings altogether.

The end result is that liberal, emergent, and ex Christians engage in something I refer to as “Virgin Shaming” or “Celibacy / Celibate Shaming.”

So keen are these folks to make sure everyone tip toes around the feelings of people who have had pre-marital sex so as not to offend them or hurt their feelings, that anyone who actually is still a virgin past their 30s, or who is celibate after divorce or widowhood and/or who still believes celibacy should be taught and encouraged, is depicted as being judgmental or out of touch; the people who are living out the Bible’s teachings on sexual purity are made out to be the ones in the wrong.

The people in these dialogues do not care about offending or hurting the feelings of Christians who have stayed virgins into their 30s and older.

Continue reading “Regarding the post “Abstinence is unrealistic and old fashioned” at The Matt Walsh Blog vis a vis Stuff Christian Culture Likes group”

Biblical Balance in Teaching About Sexual Sin – don’t white wash and downplay sexual sin, but don’t continually beat people up over it

Biblical Balance in Teaching About Sexual Sin – don’t white wash and downplay sexual sin, but don’t continually beat people up over it

In this podcast (see link below), beginning around 17 minutes, Chris Rosebrough, the host, starts reviewing a video or podcast by some woman of a show called “Religish,” who is telling people how to get over the feelings of shame their conservative churches instilled in them about their sexual sin.

I have seen mostly the opposite problem in Christianity these days: people who have watered down the fact that sexual sin is bad and is, in fact, sin.

I too often see preachers on TV and every day Christians on blogs, and emergent / liberal Christians on their blogs (and even some supposed conservative Christians), take an attitude of “oh, everyone sexually sins, it’s not that bad, just forgive yourself for it, God does!”

Christian attitudes toward pre-marital sex, adultery, and homosexual sex is very laissez-faire to the point these people sometimes mock or ridicule sexual purity, and virginity (well, I suppose that is redundant, as I regard them as being one and the same).

There may be some quarters of the faith that are very legalistic and damming about sexual sins, but most churches and Christians these days are the total opposite, they are too, too laid back and accepting.

Some Christians today, especially the feminist Christians and emergents / liberals (and a few conservatives – makes me want to puke), argue that because teaching Biblical standards about sex – i.e., that pre-marital or homosexal sex is sinful – hurts the feelings or shames fornicators (or of homosexuals), that Christians should either deny these teachings, or stop mentioning them.

The woman on this “Religish” show also seems to take the position that you should not feel shamed over sexual sin if you have committed it, or, she seems to feel that there is not even such a thing as sexual sin.

Chris Rosebrough addresses those topics on this pod cast (starting at around 17 minutes into the show).

He also discusses how people who have been hurt by legalistic, conservative churches usually end up drifting into liberal theology or self made, cafeteria styled (pick your own beliefs) religion:

(Link): Attack of the Liberals (discusses how Christians and Non Christians address sexual sin)

    • Relig-ish Advice for Recovering Conservatives

I on occasion disagree with Rosebrough on some issues, but I think he’s pretty much on the money with that segement of the show.
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Related posts on this blog:

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link): Why So Much Fornication – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re Celibacy

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Married Christian Couples and Sexual Sin, More Examples – and Women and Porn

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): Dude Arguing for Legalization of Prostitution Uses Same Rationale as Christians Concerning Celibacy and Sexual Purity

(Link): Married (Christian) People Aren’t More Virtuous Than Christian Singles

(Link): How Christian Teachings on Marriage/ Singleness/ Gender Roles/ Dating Are Keeping Christian Singles Single

(Link): Married Women Engage in Sexual Sin – and most men in denial particularly Christian conservatives

(Link): Article: Our Born-Again Virgin Bachelor – Secondary or Spiritual Virginity

(Link): The ol’ Christian myth that married couples are impervious to sexual sin but singles have lots of sexual sin

(Link): Gotta Maintain that Propaganda that Married Christian Sex is “Mind Blowing”

(Link): Book Review at CP: Sex, Dating, and Relationships: The Dating Friendships Alternative

(Link): Critique of Christianity Today Article: The Real Value of Sex

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): Criticism of Purity Teachings by Christians via a Woman’s Personal Testimony

(Link): Christian Teachings on Relationships: One Reason Singles Are Remaining Single (even if they want to get married)

(Link): Anti Virginity Moore Opines on Dirty Web Sites * Irony Alert *

(Link): New Study Released: Cheaters: More American Married Women Admit to Adultery (links)

Sometimes Shame Guilt and Hurt Feelings Over Sexual Sins Is a Good Thing – but – Emergents, Liberals Who Are Into Virgin and Celibate Shaming

Sometimes Shame Guilt and Hurt Feelings Over Sexual Sins Is a Good Thing

If I see one more “Christian” writer blogging or podcasting about how Christians need to abandon virginity- until- marriage (a.k.a. sexual purity or celibacy) teachings and standards, which are biblical, I may puke.

It has become quite de rigueur in some Christian circles to bash virginity and celibacy these days.

Oddly, Christian emergents, such as Rachel Held Evans, post-Evangelical or ex-Christian writers, and some spiritual abuse bloggers, who usually try to be hyper-sensitive to people’s feelings, who will twist themselves into pretzels to defend homosexuals or homosexuality, will hypocritically often give no thought to trampling on the feelings of adult, Christian hetero virgins.

I would imagine that adult, Christian homosexual virgins might be offended by some of this same rhetoric aimed against celibacy sexual purity, and virginity as well; there are some Christians who have S.S.A., same sex attraction [homosexual leanings], but who have chosen to stay celibate.

How do you suppose the rants against sexual purity teachings and the whole-scale acceptance of homosexual behavior by fellow Christians makes them feel? I guess their feelings do not matter because they don’t neatly fit into the little politically correct box of the Christian homosexual agenda pushers?

I have a lot of respect for Christian homosexuals/SSA who are abstaining from sexual activity, who are celibate, due to allegiance to biblical teachings about sex. (And they do exist. I periodically come across an interview with Christian homosexual/SSA celibates on Christian podcast shows or in blogs.)

Some emergents and theologically/doctrinally liberal Christians go so far as to defend fornication (both homo and hetero varieties) and to advocate it, never mind bashing virginity and celibacy, such as:
(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

I recall reading a small article several years ago in a secular paper about secular culture. The author (and I’ve no idea what her religious views were), said part of the problem with American (secular) culture is that we have lost our sense of shame. I agree with this assessment.

The author said one reason we see so much trash and vulgarity in the media, why we see pop singers dancing around half naked on music shows, is that people have lost their sense of shame – and that is not always a good thing.

I portend the same thing has happened in Christian culture the last five or more years, especially when it comes to sex related sin.

Some Christians have been arguing on their blogs, books, magazine articles, in pod casts, and on radio shows, that Christians should cease from upholding biblical teachings on celibacy and virginity because such teachings (and the standards themselves) make people who have engaged in pre-marital sex (aka fornication) feel ashamed, guilty, bad, or flawed.

As a 40 something, hetero virgin -I chose to remain a virgin until marriage- I find this most puzzling.

I have managed to do what most Christians assume is the impossible: stayed a virgin into my 40s; obviously, I prove a person can live without sex.

No, I do not have a low libido; no I am not fat and ugly; yes I have been engaged to a man; yes, I have been flirted with and hit on by men (I am not ugly and fat).

I’m having a hard time seeing why Biblical teachings on sexual ethics should be tossed aside or ignored, merely because some have not lived up to those ethics, or that some who fornicated feel shameful or guilty when they hear such ethics taught.

I can just imagine if people who claim to be Christ followers used that criteria in other areas of life and sin:

    “Hi, my name is John Doe. I enjoy being a serial killer! I love strangling women to death. Every time I hear a Christian preacher mention that murder of humans is a sin, it makes me feel so guilty and ashamed. I think we should all just accept that some people like to murder, they cannot help it, and well, you Christians should drop that teaching to accomodate me and my feelings. I was born with these urges to kill. I have a need to kill. Respect my inclination to murder, and don’t judge me or make me feel ashamed for it.”

If your guilt or shame over murdering another person – or stealing, or having sex before marriage- compels you to cease such behavior, then I think that is a plus, not a minus.

God, if He exists, says in the Bible that He gave humanity consciences, so that when and if you do something wrong, yes, you will feel guilty and ashamed over it.

(Disclaimer: I am not saying someone who commits a sin and repents should feel guilt indefinitely. I’m not talking about “false guilt,” and that carried over a lifetime. These days, I see the opposite: people, including Christians, sadly, who try to hide away from feelings of guilt, shame, and condemnation at all costs.)

Instead of telling homo and hetero singles to go right ahead and feed their sexual desires, why not encourage them to hold on and remain virgins or celibate?

The Bible talks about Christians encouraging other Christians to hold on, hang in there, and complete the race.

The Bible does not tell Christians to tell other Christians, “When the going gets tough, just give up, and give in. Stop the race, go sit on the sideline. Being a virgin is so hard, so cave in, stop fighting it! Everyone else is having sex, so join them.”

However, many emergent Christians are basically carrying the banner for this “Just cave in and do it, then don’t feel guilty or shamed for it!” approach, which seems to be nothing more than the Least Common Denominator Approach, the Low Expectations Approach, or the Quitter Approach, rather than the the Over-comer, or Winner, or I Know You Can Do It approach.

Here is an editorial on the topic of shame:

(Link): Shame Can be Healthy When We Violate God’s Standards

by Trace Embry

There is a common belief among the politically correct “intelligentsia” that shame is not something our kids–or anyone else for that matter–ought to experience.

Even many Christians have bought into this idea.

Scripture; however, seems to make a different case. God has made us, and our kids, with the capacity for many emotions– shame being just one of them.

Confusion about this subject comes when someone attempts to force someone else to feel shame for something that God did not call shameful–like when a young child spills his milk or fails to control his bladder.

Even then, there comes a time and age when even these acts become inappropriate–perhaps even shameful– particularly if done with reckless frequency and without legitimate excuse, i.e., such as a physical or mental condition.

To remind an unrepentant child that he ought to be ashamed of himself for committing some blatant act of foolishness, abuse or other sinful activity can often be just good parenting. Or in the case of two adults, just being a good friend.

Proverbs 27: 6 says, “Wounds from a friend can be trusted; but, an enemy multiplies kisses.” Besides, aren’t there things that we should be ashamed of? The Bible doesn’t have much positive to say about a generation that does not even know how to blush.

Shame is often a component of true conviction which is fundamental to repentance. Shame is a legitimate emotion when God’s standards are violated. We need not be ashamed of who we are, but rather for what we do.

Confusion can also come in when we are made to be ashamed of who we are. Knowing that we are created by God in the image of God should remind us that we should never be ashamed of who we are. As the saying goes, “God does not make junk!” What God has created; however, can create junk–junk that we should be ashamed of creating. And sometimes it takes someone else to remind us that we should feel ashamed for creating it.

When Nathan the prophet told King David, “You are the man.” I doubt he expected David to feel like a winner in that moment. David’s emotions were completely appropriate for that moment.

Shame is actually a good emotion; for, like pain, it is an alarm that tells us something is not right.

And, like pain, it is also a motivator to start heading in the right direction. Feeling no shame is how our society has arrived at its current moral condition.

Pop psychology–not Scripture–is where this notion of shame being a naughty word came from. Views on psychology are continually changing, while God’s Word remains trustworthy through the ages. So, remember that anyone who shames you into believing that shame is a shame is a sham.

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Related posts this blog:

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link):  Why Progressive Christians Are Ineffective and Unpersuasive by P. Heck – Also: How Liberals Can Avoid Turning Off Right Wingers

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link): Anti-Porn Activist: ‘Ethically Sourced’ Porn ‘Sounds Like an Oxymoron’

(Link):  CDC Report: Virgin Teens Much Healthier Than Their Sexually Active Peers (2016 Report)

(Link): Confusing Sexual Assault and Sexual Abuse with Consensual Sex and Then Condemning Sexual Purity Teachings – and other, related topics

(Link):  Our Bodies Were Not Made for Sex by T. Swann

(Link): Warning: This Column Will Offend You – by M. Moynihan (Re: Trigger Warnings in Written Material, Terms such as slut shaming, man-splain, etc)

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Link): Sex, Love & Celibacy by Dan Navin [who is a Christian homosexual celibate]

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): To Get Any Attention or Support from a Church These Days you Have To Be A Stripper, Prostitute, or Orphan

(Link): Virgin – and Celibate – Shaming : Christian Double Standards – Homosexuals Vs Hetero Singles – Concerning Thabiti Anyabwile and Gag Reflexes

(Link): Dude Arguing for Legalization of Prostitution Uses Same Rationale as Christians Concerning Celibacy and Sexual Purity

(Link): The Activist Who Says Being Gay Is Not A Sin – double standards for homo singles vs hetero singles

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Students Discuss Dissatisfaction with “Hookup Culture” [Casual Sex, Fornication, Pre Marital Sex]

(Link): The ol’ Christian myth that married couples are impervious to sexual sin but singles have lots of sexual sin

(Link): Why So Much Fornication – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): Rare Reminders from Christians on Recent Broadcasts that Fornication is Wrong and That Older Celibates Exist

(Link): The Trivialization of Sex (a post by A. Hamilton)

(Link): Confessions of a 25-year-old Christian virgin (article) – and related info

(Link): CDC Reports Rare Lesbian HIV Transmission Case

(Link): Slut Shaming and Virgin Shaming and Secular and Christian Culture – Dirty Water / Used Chewing Gum and the CDC’s Warnings – I guess the CDC is a bunch of slut shamers ?

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming
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Related post, off site:

(Link): Same-Sex Marriage and the Single Christian – How marriage-happy churches are unwittingly fueling same-sex coupling—and leaving singles like me in the dust.

The Activist Who Says Being Gay Is Not A Sin – double standards for homo singles vs hetero singles

The Activist Who Says Being Gay Is Not A Sin

(the following post contains some “adult” language)
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I don’t particularly enjoy writing about homosexuality. I am a social conservative who does not agree with homosexuality, but it’s not one of my favorite topics to go after and opine on, as it often is for other so cons.

Homosexuality is not a topic I care about a lot in and of itself, but why I do address it from time to time on this blog is how it impacts, or interacts with, hetero celibacy, hetero virginity, and how older hetero singles are (mis)treated by Christian culture, and other, related issues pertaining to heteros.

I don’t think most Christians think “being gay is a sin,” but they do believe that sex outside of a one-man married to one-woman marriage is a sin, and that would include one man performing sexual acts on another man, or having sexual fantasies thereof.

I’m not sure why Savage, who is a frothing- at- the- mouth homosexual activist discussed in the article I have linked to below, is taking this route.

Why is Savage bothering with any sort of theological argument, claiming that the Bible does not condemn homosexuals or homosexuality, when homosexual activists are more than happy to be bullies and thugs, are more than happy to sue people into compliance or into silence, harassing them in ceasing criticism, or to get them harassed to the point they get fired from their jobs, or they have to close their businesses? (See for instance: (Link): Christian bakery closes after LGBT threats, protests)

These days, all the HMs (Homosexual Militants, which includes their Hetero supporters) has to do is start screaming, “You’re a bigot and homophobe” and that’s supposed to settle things.

The HMs are the bigots and bullies, not the heteros who don’t agree with homosexuality.

Dan Savage is an anti-Christian, anti-Republican, anti-conservative bigot and all around asshole. Dan Savage is to pro homosexual causes what Fred Phelps of Westboro is to anti homosexual causes.

Here is the article I am blogging about now, with further observations by me below this link:

(Link): THE SURPRISE ACTIVIST WHO’S JOINING CALLS FOR A ‘RENEWED CHRISTIANITY’ THAT BELIEVES BEING GAY ISN’T A SIN

If you’ve been to this blog before, you know my story: over age 40, hetero, never married, and a virgin (I’ve never had sex. I was waiting for marriage to have sex).

However, I’ve also pointed out I’m slowly leaving the Christian faith, and I no longer personally subscribe to being a virgin until marriage any more – but – I still see that the Bible condemns pre marital sex.

In other words, I’m not going to pull dishonest bullshit like the HMs, or anti-sexual purity emergents, and say, “Oh, the Bible does not forbid homosexual sex or hetero fornication!,” when I know damn well it does.

If you’re going to have sex outside of marriage (and I myself plan on doing so eventually), at least be honest enough to admit that the Bible does NOT have your back on this topic.

The Bible most certainly does condemn pre-marital sex, as well as homosexual sex.

Here are quotes from the article (with additional observations by me below this).

THE SURPRISE ACTIVIST [Dan Savage] WHO’S JOINING CALLS FOR A ‘RENEWED CHRISTIANITY’ THAT BELIEVES BEING GAY ISN’T A SIN

    Sep. 9, 2013 7:49am
    author: Billy Hallowell

    Christians who believe that being gay is a sin that violates biblical tenets now have some competition among their own ranks. As the debate over gay marriage continues to intensify at the local, state and national level, a new group has launched with the sole purpose of giving “LGBT-affirming Christians a means of proclaiming to the world” that there’s nothing sinful about being gay, lesbian, bi-sexual or transgender.

    At the center of the NALT Christians Project (NALT stands for “Not All Like That”) is the claim that there’s nothing in the Bible that would contradict or condemn a homosexual lifestyle. The organization intends to reach young people, in particular, with its message urging for inclusion and a new view on biblical texts.

    Founded by John Shore, a blogger and Christian who resides in San Diego, Calif., NALT also has the support of gay rights advocates Dan Savage, Wayne Besen and Evan Hurst (the latter two work for “Truth Wins Out,” an organization that supports the LBGT community). It is Savage’s involvement, though, that is most noteworthy — and for a variety of reasons.

    First and foremost, there’s his complicated history with conservative Christians. Last year, while speaking to teens, he lambasted the Bible, using expletives in an incident that widely made headlines.

    And earlier this summer it was announced that the “It Gets Better” campaign founder will be speaking at the annual Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) convention, yet another surprise considering his involvement in the NALT Christians Project. Savage, who is apparently an agnostic, is putting his full weight behind the NALT project, which will certainly raise some eyebrows.

    In a video announcement supporting the new-found project, he said, that the initiative is meant to reach “Christians who support equal rights.” And he also noted that he’s the individual who coined the “Not All Like That” phrase after interacting with many Christians who said that they do not agree with the hateful tactics that some believers have used in dismissing the gay community.

Christians already believe homosexuals have “equal rights.”

What Christians disagree with is that SSA (Same Sex Attraction) is good, normal, biblical, and that it’s morally acceptable for unmarried people to engage in sexual acts. Christians also teach that about HETERO unmarried people (that it is not right for them to have sex outside of marriage), so there is no double standard in that regard.

However, please see this post at this blog:
(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

Continuing quotes (Link): from the article:

    “If you’re a Christian who believe God cares no more about a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity than God cares about the color of a person’s hair or eyes make a Not All Like That video,” Savage said.

    “If you don’t take that step, if you don’t step up then your silence allows the Tony Perkins and the Pat Robertsons of this world to speak for you and to continue doing real harm not to just LBGT people, but also to Christianity itself.”

    Savage’s views naturally carry through to the group’s overarching aims and goal set. The main premise of the project is that Christians have badly handled the gay issue and that there’s actually no reason why believers shouldn’t be supporting homosexuals.

    In a letter published on the NALT website, Shore charged that many Christians have used the Bible and churches to “bully, malign and shame LGBT people,” also claiming that those believers who support gays and lesbians have not stood up to these attacks fervently enough. In the note, Shore also called for a “renewed Christianity” that doesn’t stand for bigotry and that focuses upon the love that Jesus Christ represented.

    NATL’s recent launch included 30 videos featuring Christians and others supporting gays and lesbians (watch of the clips here). The challenge, as Time notes, will be for Shore, Savage and others to figure out just how many Christians agree with the notion that gay marriage isn’t anti-biblical. The faith has long held, based on the holy book’s interpretation, that living a gay lifestyle is sinful.

Savage keeps making this out to be about a person’s “orientation,” where again, I think most Christian interpretation of the Bible condemns the sinful thought lives, or actions and behaviors.

It’s fine to be HETERO and a woman who is attracted to men, but according to Jesus, it’s not fine for that woman to then sit around having X-rated fantasies of doing the nasty with some man you have a crush on.

Same teaching applies to hetero males: they are not to look after women in lust.

Jesus says lusting after someone is the same thing, or just as bad as, adultery. In the same way, Jesus would not be cool with a man having X-rated fantasies of having sex with another man.

Many of the same sexual rules or ethical standards in the Bible apply equally to homosexuals as they do to hetero.

It’s not rocket science. There is no “get out of jail free, do anything you want to sexually” card regarding biblical sexual teaching.

There is no verse or passage in the Bible that says any sex at all, at any time, with anyone, is peachy and fine, so go to it and don’t feel bad or guilty about it.

There are limits placed on sexual activity in the Bible for every one.

At least I’m honest enough to admit that when I do start having pre- marital sex (and again, I am hetero), the Bible does not support me on it.

To see that same level of honesty from HMs would be refreshing, but they want the Bible to teach something it simply does not teach.

It’s funny to me that homosexual militants can’t just let people agree to disagree with them; they want, and pathetically need, whole-scale acceptance from every one and celebration -not just tolerance- but celebration of their sexuality, or sexual actions.

They want to force people to “like” homosexuality. You can’t force every one to like homosexuality any more than you can force every one to like cabbage, the color green, skinny ties, rocky road ice cream, or watching football.

It is also my opinion that homosexual militants, like some hetero sex-obsessed preachers (eg, Mark Driscoll) have turned sex into an idol. They seek after sex and sexual experiences, not the God of the Bible.

If Christians did a better job supporting hetero celibate adult singles (they do a piss poor job at this, and many churches treat adult singles like crap), treating singles better would have gone a long way in heading off a lot of problems now being created by homosexual militants.
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Related posts this blog:

(Link): Virgin – and Celibate – Shaming : Christian Double Standards – Homosexuals Vs Hetero Singles – Concerning Thabiti Anyabwile and Gag Reflexes

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

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Related post, off site:

(Link): Same-Sex Marriage and the Single Christian – How marriage-happy churches are unwittingly fueling same-sex coupling—and leaving singles like me in the dust.

(Link): Christian Gender Complementarian Group (CBMW) Anti Virginity and Anti Sexual Purity Stance (At Least Watered Down) – and their Anti Homosexual Marriage Position

Virgin – and Celibate – Shaming : Christian Double Standards – Homosexuals Vs Hetero Singles – Concerning Thabiti Anyabwile and Gag Reflexes

Virgin – and Celibate – Shaming : Christian Double Standards – Homosexuals Vs Hetero Singles – Concerning Thabiti Anyabwile and Gag Reflexes

About two weeks ago, after Thabiti Anyabwile of the Gospel Coalition published a blog page going on about how homosexual sexual acts are (to paraphrase him) “gag worthy,” Christians, particularly emergents, went into an uproar over it, saying how insensitive Anyabwile was being.

A few atheists, whose pastimes include commenting on Christian culture online, also wrote about it to condemn it. Here are a few examples:

(Link): Gag Me – by Michael Kimpan (identifies as Christian)

This is by an atheist (I will not link to his page because I do not want a track back link to appear):

1. Christian Pastor: If We Describe Gay Sex to People, They’ll Turn Against Homosexuality!, by Hema Mehta (identifies as atheist).
The URL is
patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/08/21/christian-pastor-if-we-describe-gay-sex-to-people-theyll-turn-against-homosexuality/

2. (Link): Responding to homophobia in the Christian community – Rachel Held Evans
(Evans identifies as Christian; she typically blogs against sexual purity / virginity teachings for hetero people, and in favor of showing sensitivity, that in my opinion, borders on full- on acceptance and celebration of homosexuality; I am unclear if she supports homosexuality itself)

3. (Link) Your Gagging Isn’t Loving , from “Alise Write” blog

The current “Alise Write” blog link is not working; try the Cached Page (“Your Gagging Is Not Loving”)

I assume that Alise considers herself a Christian, and she seems to self-identify as “gay affirming.”

There are two issues I take with all the hand-wringing or outrage over the Anyabwile blog page, or any time the liberals and emergents have a fit over any Christian who says or writes anything about homosexuality in less than fully glowing, supportive terms.

First of all, the Bible calls all unmarried people to refrain from having sex, so whether hetero or homosexual, if one claims to be a Christian, one should not be having sex outside of marriage anyway.

Ergo, I’m not sure how pertinent it was for Anyabwile to go into detail about homosexual sex acts (and you bet your sweet bippy he sure did), but it was also not very relevant for the emergents or “gay affirmers” to spaz out over it, either.

I read Anyabwile’s page only once, but so far as I recall, he did not condemn anyone for having SSA (same sex attraction) or homosexual urges/ attractions, but only seemed to criticize them for acting upon those desires (e.g., men actually having anal sex, for instance).

As Christians have believed for centuries that sex outside of marriage is wrong, since that is what the Bible says on the topic, why would anyone disagree with Anyabwile for supporting celibacy for unmarried people, or, to state it in the converse, for not supporting sexual acts outside of marriage?

You can read the blog page that started the kerfuffle here:
(Link): The Importance of Your Gag Reflex When Discussing Homosexuality and “Gay Marriage” by Anyabwile

Anyabwile wrote a follow up here (which I have not read yet):
(Link): On Homosexuality and the Conscience: Responding to Criticisms

My second point.

What I continue to see are emergent, liberal, or overly sensitive, politically correct, conservative Christians clucking in concern over hurting the feelings of homosexuals, but these same groups are fine with attacking virginity among hetero Christians, or virginal Christians themselves.

See, for example, (posts this blog):
(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

I have yet to see an emergent Christian, liberal Christian, or sensitive conservative Christian, support virginity until marriage as concept (for anyone who is still a virgin past age 25 – 30), or to actually support actual Christian virgins themselves (e.g., churches encouraging families to “adopt” older singles for the holidays so they don’t have to spend holidays alone; spending as much money on singles church services as they do for youth; there are no sermons about singleness, but many on marriage, etc).

On the contrary, the emergents and others – who claim to be Christian – routinely write blog pages criticizing biblical, sexual purity and virginity teachings and morality, blathering on about how “hurtful” they are to women. 🙄

As far as I am concerned, it is a double standard and hypocritical for Christians to clutch their pearl necklaces in concern that a homosexual’s feelings might be hurt over a blog post that talks about “gag reflexes,” or that mentions homosexual acts are sinful, but then sit around, as they do, offending me (an older Christian virgin, who is hetero) by repeatedly stomping all over biblical sexual ethics, and saying virginity means nothing, is over-rated, or is a judgmental concept that Christians should rid themselves of.

This gets into the general problem I have with Christians and hypocrisy in the realm of compassion:

Just as some Christians will only show empathy for starving African orphans or homeless crack addicts, but will judge and condemn the “Average Joe” Christian who is going through a nasty divorce, a cancer scare, or a death in the family, the emergents and touchie-feelie-for-homosexual Christians (sometimes they are one in the same), only extend compassion and respect for one group – homosexuals being criticized by Christians – but show none for mature virginal Christians who are and have been criticized by Christians. I have written about this before:
(Link): To Get Any Attention or Support from a Church These Days you Have To Be A Stripper, Prostitute, or Orphan

Here is a thoughtful response that critiques Rachel Held Evan’s post (by Jeff G.):
(Link): Rachel Held Evans – Is the gag reflex a legitimate moral compass?

I agree with Jeff G’s critique in that RHE was incorrect in hers to suggest it is wrong to define an entire group of people based upon their sexual acts, when in fact, that is what many vocal homosexuals in the “rights” groups have been doing to and for themselves for decades now. Quoting Jeff G:

    Again, if Anyabwile were really saying this it would indeed be problematic. Nowhere does he suggest that copulation fully defines homosexuals any more than it defines heterosexuals. Ironically, it is the GLBTQ community itself that has posited sex acts and sexuality as the basis of identity differentiation.

As for the homosexuality debate itself, I do not trust or respect the militants. Please note I used the term “militants.”

I don’t have a problem with ordinary homosexuals who simply live out their lives quietly like the rest of us, but I am talking about the intolerant ones who are consumed with forcing their views and sexuality on to other people.

Here are a few reasons below why I do not support, respect, or agree with the militant homosexuality supporters or the movement itself; has Rachel Held Evans, the Friendly Atheist, or any other “gay affirming” emergents condemned this sort of behavior by homosexual activists? If not, why not?

(Link): NSFW photos, adult males nude engaged in sex acts in public – Folsom Street Homosexual Fair in San Fran, from Zombie’s blog
(NOTE: the link I am giving you above will send you to a “warning” page that asks you to click a certain link if you are age 18 or above; there is no nudity on that particular page itself)

(Link): Gay Couple to Sue Church of England to Force It to Perform Gay Weddings (Coming soon to America?)

(Link): How “Gay Rights” is Being Sold to America

(Link): Americans For Truth About Homosexuality

Dan Savage is a homosexual activist:

(Link): Anti-bullying advocate Dan Savage wishes cancer on Sarah Palin

(Link): It gets better? ‘Anti-bullying’ bully Dan Savage bashes ‘batsh*t’ Bachmann; Heal thyself, dude

(Link): Stand Up to Dan Savage’s Bullying

(Link): Dan Savage Bullies Christian Teens in Speech at Anti-Bullying Conference, Says to Ignore “Bull****” in the Bible
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Related links this blog:

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Link): When Adult Virginity and Adult Celibacy Are Viewed As Inconvenient or As Impediments

(Link): Christian Gender Complementarian Group (CBMW) Anti Virginity and Anti Sexual Purity Stance (At Least Watered Down) – and their Anti Homosexual Marriage Position
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Related post, off site:

(Link): Same-Sex Marriage and the Single Christian – How marriage-happy churches are unwittingly fueling same-sex coupling—and leaving singles like me in the dust.

Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

With virginity and celibacy under regular attack from much of Non Christian culture, such as with recent books such as ‘The Purity Myth,’ by Jessica Valenti (I assume she is a Non Christian, though I may be wrong; but certainly, and by one method of several, by using most Hollywood movies as a barometer to judge Non Christian feelings about the topics, as most films do not depict flattering portrayals of virgins or virginity, so I take it the average Non Christian may think virginity is strange or bad), one would expect Christians would want to jump to defend the concepts, but, in the last few years, they’ve been among the very first in line to say, and to cave in and join the Non Christian anti-virginity chorus saying, such teachings are “dangerous” to women, while some say they are “hurtful.”

While I agree with Valenti’s presmise that culture (and this would include Christian culture) can or does twist virginity to such a degree that women are judged only in terms of their sexuality, and this is not good, I do not agree with others (I’m not sure of Valenti’s position specifically) that teachings about sexual purity should be abandoned altogether – if one chooses to be a Bible-believing Christian, I should say.

I myself am on the verge of becoming agnostic after years of having been a conservative Christian. Despite this, I tend to view these debates about sex, modesty teachings, celibacy and virginity through a biblical lens, especially if a Christian is discussing these topics, or if the arguments apparently conflict with the Bible. (At other times, I do waffle and view them from an agnostic position.)

If one is going to be a Christian, I see no room for disputing that the Bible says that women -and men- are called to remain virgins until marriage.

If you are a Christian who is having sex outside of marriage, that is your choice, but do not try to defend that choice -and I have, yes, seen self- professing Christians use all the following rationaliztions – by saying things such as: the Bible supports fornication;
or the Bible is too vague for us to know for sure what God thinks about pre-marital sex, so let us overlook it; or,
other Christians (these are usually liberals or emergents) insist that that the biblical teachings about sexual purity should be ignored because they sometimes hurt the feelings of fornicators, rape victims, or child sexual abuse victims.

It should go without saying that of course rape victims and child sexual abuse victims are not to blame for having been violated.

That sexual abuse victims unfortunately feel uncomfortable by virginity teachings or sexual purity teachings is less evidence that such teachings are erroneous or cruel in and of themselves, and perhaps more of an indicator that the conveyors of such teachings, such as church youth pastors, may be framing the discussions in an unnecessarily hurtful or condescending manner (by comparing fornicators to used chewing gum, for instance, which yes, I grant, may be insulting).

However, that some Christian youth speakers or pulpit-pounding, legalistic preachers tend to convey sex sermons and teachings in an unloving manner does not change the fact that the Bible supports virginity- until- marriage, celibacy, and chastity.

There are some Christians, who dispute the use of the terms “fornication” and “fornicator” when discussing sexual topics, as they feel it is insulting to people who have in the past fornicated, or who currently fornicate. I use these terms only for breveity’s sake. They are not intended by me to be derogatory.

It’s a hell of a lot easier to type out the word “fornicator,” than the long, meandering description, “one who has sex outside of / before marriage.”

Strangely, nobody, not even most Christians who dispute the use of the word “fornicate,” seem to mind the weird, and not- mentioned- in- the- Bible, trend lately where Christian fornicators get to call themselves “born again virgins,” “spiritual virgins,” or “secondary virgins,” if only they promise in public to have repented of their sexual shenanigans. Why the double standards on terminlogy?

Christians are calling for other Christians, including those who have actually remained virgins into their adulthood, to tip toe around the sensitive feelings of those who have fornicated, yet those pushing this insane agenda do not care at all that their downgrading of the importance of virginity and celibacy is not only insulting and hurtful to actual virgins, but that it removes any remaining impetus for us to remain chaste any longer.

And I note a tad of hypocrisy on display: many of the Christians asking adult virgin Christians to be more tolerant and understanding of rampant sexual sin and who implore adult virgins not to take virginity so seriously, sometimes end their blog postings with the end notes reading thusly: “author John. W. Smith; married 20 years, father of three,” or, “Mary Jones, phD in literature, married eight years, mother of two.” They are not virgins themselves but feel fine lecturing virgins.

Here I have carried out the “be a virgin because you’re not married” biblical mandate, and I’m over the age of 40, yet these buffoons, these Christian bloggers who are getting their sexual and companionship needs consistently satisfied, are presuming to dress me, or those like me, down? I don’t think so.

Separate from your spouse for the next twenty five years, live alone, give up all sex and contact, then, and only then, write a blog post about all this, please… and then let’s see what your position is on the topic. I have a sneaking suspicion your views will have shifted at least a tad.

Christians, even preachers and Christian professional authors and bloggers, are now showing far more concern over the feelings and considerations of sexual sinners, helping them getting their needs met, and offering them encouragement and a sense of community, than they are in helping or supporting adult Christians who are sexually abstaining, and who are actually following the Bible’s teachings on sexual mores. This is a disgusting double standard and very upside down.

To add further insult to injury, and diminish virginity even more, adult virgins such as myself, or author Julia Duin, who point out the hypocrisy, the lack of support for the truly celibate single, and the sexual failings of the Christian culture, are chided, insulted, and reprimanded by preachers and professional Christian authors in their blogs, magazines, and editorials over this.

I never thought I would see the day, but this kind of attack on virginity – and by Christians – is becoming a horrifying, regular occurence in American Christendom.

Adult Christian virgins get scolded and chided – by (married authors- that is, ‘having sex occasionally authors,’ I should add again) Christians, no less, and it’s mind boggling – for defending the very biblical standard of ‘virginity- unti- marriage,’ to be told that we are not loving, we are prideful, and we also get these nauseating, non-sensical, sappy, maudlin comments, courtesy Christian Tim Challies, such as, “we are all virgins now.” (More on that farther below.)

Per the last point on the list: not all guilt is a bad thing, according to the Bible. Christians are supposed to feel convicted for any sin they commit, which usually translates as feelings of guilt. There is such a thing as “false” guilt, to be sure – but in so far that the Bible teaches that pre-marital sex is wrong, if you do not feel the least bit guilty for having engaged in that particular sin, and yet you claim to be a Christian, there might be something wrong with your conversion experience, or your fidelty to Biblical teachings.

This is not to say that anyone guilty of any sin should spend years wallowing in hatred of self or in self-unforgiveness, but the attitude I pick up in contemporary Christian views about sexual sin on blogs and in some books is to dismiss it out of hand, especially because teachings of sexual purity makes people feel ashamed or guilty, which is not, in my view, biblical.

Turning attention to Challies’ anti- virginity post. Notice like in Moore’s anti-virginity posting, Challies also offers the obligatory “I support celibacy and virginity” commentary, but then spends the rest of the discussion nullifying those sentiments. Here are excerpts (his editorial is hosted on his own blog, and at Christian Post):

(Link 1): We Are All Virgins Now, by Tim Challies (on Challies’ Blog)

(Link 2): We Are All Virgins Now, by Tim Challies (on CP)

These are excperts. If you wish to read the Challies post in its entirety, please click one of the links above.

[by Tim Challies]

  • We Evangelicals are known for our obsession with virginity. Now don’t get me wrong—I affirm that it is good and God-honoring to remain sexually pure before marriage (and within marriage and after marriage). As a pastor I want to teach the people in my care the value of having their first sexual experiences with their spouse in the marriage bed and not with a prom date in the back of a car. I want my children to value sexual purity and to understand that lust is not love, that love expresses itself in self-control. Virginity matters because sexual purity matters because God says it matters. But it is not the highest of virtues. It is not the measure of a godly young man or young woman. It is not the goal and the measure of Christian living.
  • This Evangelical obsession with virginity manifests itself in youth conferences where a flower is passed around a room, going from hand to hand, until the speaker can hold it up, all bent and twisted, and ask with a knowing grin, “Who would want a rose like this?” The teens look and say, “I would never want a rose like that.” But then there are the few who silently look away and weep because they are that rose. They learn they have been spoiled, that their beauty has been given away. (As Matt Chandler reminds us, Jesus wants the rose!)
  • … It is painful to those who were raised in ignorance of what God commands, who simply acted the way unbelievers will act as they committed sexual sin. 
  • … It is particularly painful to those whose virginity was taken from them, who were unwilling participants in abuse or rape. They may feel spoiled
  • This whole obsession with virginity misses one New Testament key, the gospel key…
  • …Paul tells us that in God’s eyes we are all holy. Through Christ we are all redeemed, all forgiven, all made new, all unspoiled. In Christ we are all virgins.

Here I will address a few of Challies’ specific comments (I have dealt with some of his other points in other posts at my blog, and I do not wish to rehash them all here and now; please see my previous posts); Challies wrote:

  • This obsession with virginity….

The only Christians “obsessing” about virginity the past few years, are youth preachers at youth rallies, and those Christians who are not virgins: the fornicators themselves and the married (who are presumably having sex regularly with their spouses). They are the ones writing these types of editorials besmirching virgins and virginity, or seeking to have both diminished.

I’ve yet to see an adult Christian virgin past the age of 35 write one of these attacks on celibacy and virginity, or asking for untold amounts of lovey, sugary, sprinkles sprinkled with an extra dash of understanding atop the sexual sin ice cream cone.

Challies wrote,

  • Not only that, but this obsession causes such pain. Elevating virginity to the first place among the virtues…

And knocking virginity down the totem pole a few notches to soothe the hurt feelings of sexual sinners is the approach you think the Christian community should take? Keep robbing older virgins of a reason to stay pure, by all means.

Challies wrote,

  • It is painful to those who were raised in ignorance of what God commands, who simply acted the way unbelievers will act as they committed sexual sin. …

As I have discussed before on my blog (please use the drop down menu and look for the tag “married people sexual sin”to find examples), I have seen countless testimonies in Christian magazines, blogs, and television programs of married Christian people who say they were committed Christians and that they knew adultery and pornography was wrong, but who engage in both types of sexual sin anyway.

I have also blogged about Christians who say that while single, they knew that fornication was a sin, yet who say they fornicated anyway, and some went so far as to also work in strip clubs, work for X- rated movie productions, and work as prostitutes. Not all Christians who sexually sin are acting out of “ignorance.” Please do not insult my intelligence on this point.

Given the immense amount of sexual purity lectures Christian young people get from Christian sources while they are teens and early 20- something, it is inconceivable to me how anyone in this day and age can grow up as a Christian, hit their mid twenties or older, and not realize that the Bible instructs a person to save sexual activity for marriage.

The young ‘uns get bombarded with sexual purity lectures from the church as kids (at least this was true of many evangelical and Baptist churches in the 1980s and 1990s – as of the last few years, it has become unfashionable for seeker friendly and other types of churches to actually confront sexual sin). When you remain a Christian virgin into your late 20s and older, the church drops the topic of celibacy, virginity, and sexual purity.

There are no support groups, no regularly issued literature (such as magazines) for adult Christian virgins past the age of 25. That Challies can claim that most, or all, of the Christians fornicating ‘out of ignorance’ is laughable and implausible. Christian teens hear about sexual purity quite often; the only sex talk adults get from the church is: “Remember, married women, husbands like sex, so perform sexually all the time!”

Challies wrote,

  • God does not look upon his people as non-virgins and virgins, spoiled and unspoiled, defiled and undefiled. He does not see two classes of people: those who have waited to experience sex within marriage and those have not…. In Christ we are all virgins.

Aw, that sounds so sweet, but it makes my former choice to remain a virgin until marriage very moot. I tell you what, as soon as I get a boyfriend after I move the next year or two, and we start having pre-marital sex, I’ll just go back and re-read those last lines.

Apparently, the phrases and words, “non-virgins,” “virgins,” “defiled,” and “undefiled” and so on, have no meaning. God does not differentiate on those terms, neither should we. I was brought up that every single last word of the Bible, in so far as it has been accurately translated, of course, was there for a reason, that the Holy Spirit put great thought for each and every word and verse, and it’s there for a reason. Now Challies is saying not so.

It’s all fine and dandy to remind sexual sinners that God is loving and forgiving, but really, do Christians have to do so at the expense of running virginity, and actual virgins, down in the process?

I guess if you want to be one of the popular cool kids like the emergents, the popular thing to do these days is bad mouth virginity.

A visitor to Challies’ blog thinks Christians should use the term or concept “recovered virginity.”

Why do Christians keep inventing these bogus terms to re-state or sugar coat the term “sexual sin” or “sexual sinner?” Your good, old- fashioned virgin bristles at mis-use of the term “virgin” to ease guilty consciences of sexual sinners. If you have sexually sinned, God will forgive you, but you are in no way, shape, or form a “virgin,” not even in a spiritual-allegorical sense, I am oh- so- sorry to say.

It is editorials like this one about virginity by Challies (and the previous one by Moore), among other reasons I have, that has been driving me away from the Christian faith and into the arms of agnosticism. The things I was taught to believe from childhood onwards about God, the Bible, Jesus, sex, and marriage are all dismissed by Christians today as though they mean nothing, or as though those beliefs were wrong the whole time.

Congratulations, Challies, for being yet another step in the staircase leading me farther away from God and away from any previously held notions about reserving sex for marriage.

Doesn’t the Bible say that teachers will be held more accountable by God than regular joe’s like me, due to the fact that some of their teachings would cause some to stray or fall away?
———————————–
Related posts, this blog:

(Link):  Christians Want to Hold Adulterers Accountable but Give Adult Single Fornicators a Pass

(Link): Conservatives Have Now Abandoned All Pretense of Advocating For Sexual Abstinence and They Actually Lament the Lack of Fornication – The Bradford Wilcox Piece, 2019

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link): Stacie Tchividjian Attempting to Turn Repeated Sexual Sin Into a Virtue of Sorts

(Link):  Tim Challies, Who Is Fine With Single Adults Fornicating, Is Not Okay With Fake Sex on TV, As Portrayed by Married Actors

(Link): Anti-Porn Activist: ‘Ethically Sourced’ Porn ‘Sounds Like an Oxymoron’

(Link): Anti Virginity Christian Blogger Tim Challies Now Writes: ’31 Days of Purity: My Identity’ – What?

(Link):  An Example of Mocking Adult Virginity Via Twitter (Virginity Used As Insult)

(Link): Stop Rewarding People For Their Failure – Christians Speaking Out of Both Sides of Their Mouths About Sexual Sin – Choices and Actions and How You Teach This Stuff Has Consequences

(Link):  CDC Report: Virgin Teens Much Healthier Than Their Sexually Active Peers (2016 Report)

(Link): A Day In The Life Of An Abstinence Ed Teacher by S. Gomez

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity (they attack both concepts)

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Married Christian Couples and Sexual Sin, More Examples – and Women and Porn

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): Editorialist at WaPo Argues That Single Christian Adults Can Have Sex So Long As They are Chaste About It – Also Speculates that Jesus Was “Probably” Celibate

(Link): Dude Arguing for Legalization of Prostitution Uses Same Rationale as Christians Concerning Celibacy and Sexual Purity

(Link): Married (Christian) People Aren’t More Virtuous Than Christian Singles

(Link): How Christian Teachings on Marriage/ Singleness/ Gender Roles/ Dating Are Keeping Christian Singles Single

(Link): Married Women Engage in Sexual Sin – and most men in denial particularly Christian conservatives

(Link): Article: Our Born-Again Virgin Bachelor – Secondary or Spiritual Virginity

(Link): The ol’ Christian myth that married couples are impervious to sexual sin but singles have lots of sexual sin

(Link): Gotta Maintain that Propaganda that Married Christian Sex is “Mind Blowing”

(Link): Book Review at CP: Sex, Dating, and Relationships: The Dating Friendships Alternative

(Link): Critique of Christianity Today Article: The Real Value of Sex

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): Criticism of Purity Teachings by Christians via a Woman’s Personal Testimony

(Link): Christian Teachings on Relationships: One Reason Singles Are Remaining Single (even if they want to get married)

(Link): Anti Virginity Moore Opines on Dirty Web Sites * Irony Alert *

(Link): New Study Released: Cheaters: More American Married Women Admit to Adultery (links)

(Link): CDC Reports Rare Lesbian HIV Transmission Case

(Link): Slut Shaming and Virgin Shaming and Secular and Christian Culture – Dirty Water / Used Chewing Gum and the CDC’s Warnings – I guess the CDC is a bunch of slut shamers ?

Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Note: the specific mentions of Moore and Kushiner and how both are attacking the Bible’s teachings on virginity / sexual purity come farther down in this opinion piece, after my introduction)

Jan 1 2015 update (Nov 2017 update way below):

I just noticed today that Moore has blocked me from his Twitter account, which I never followed to start with (the notice on his page says I cannot follow his Twitter feed, which I never did. I don’t know when he blocked me, but it was sometime over 2014).

I only tweeted at him a handful of times over 2014, with links to this blog page you are reading. And he blocked me over THAT?

————————-

Edit: See the update after you read this post: (Link): Anti Virginity Moore Opines on Dirty Web Sites * Irony Alert *

And related:

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link): Southern Baptists (who don’t TRULY support sexual purity) Announce 2014 Sex Summit

————————-

I am still amazed by emergents, liberal Christians, and even a strain of conservative Christians, who feel as though Christendom has made an “idol of virginity,” when I see so many self-professing Christians these days mocking or questioning the very concepts of virginity, celibacy, and sexual purity, concepts which are taught in the Bible.

Oh sure, I hear the occasional sermon on marriage where the preacher tosses out the obligatory “sex is for marriage only” sentiment (just today, TV preacher Jack Graham delivered such commentary in his broadcast sermon on marriage).

However, in practice and in reality, many Christians do not believe in virginity, celibacy, or sexual purity, and many of them do not practice it.

See: (Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity By extension, most Christians do not support Christian singles, who are told in the Bible to practice celibacy. Most Christians today, their churches and organizations, are too busy worshipping marriage and the traditional, nuclear family and lamenting the decay of “traditional marriage.”

Singles get overlooked in all the marriage and family worship, or all the hand-wringing over the fall of the nuclear family. Churches and the Christian community as a whole do not support Christians who are never- married, past the age of 30, and who are still virgins.

I became a Christian before reaching the age of ten (lately, though, I have considered leaving the faith, over the sex and singles issue, among other reasons). From a young age, I took Christianity and its teachings on sexual purity to heart.

I made a choice at very young age that I would wait until marriage to have sex. When you are below age 25, the church will applaud you for being a virgin.

Once you get to to your late 20s or into your 30s, the support you see in this area disappears. It dries up. (You will actually be attacked by Christians for being single and a virgin into your 30s and beyond.)

Other than Christianity, I did have one or two other reasons why I was determined to remain chaste (which I will not get into here).

My decision to remain chaste in adolescence coincides with the repeated sermonizing I heard in the 1980s and part of the 1990s of preachers ranting and raving against the sexual immorality of the day, and how a Christian should remain sexually pure. I also read the Bible as a teen, and I could not help but notice all the passages saying sex was for marriage only. I also heard or read works by authors such as Christian apologist Josh McDowell about how sex was for marriage only.

Works such as these, and sermons I heard, were one reason of several, I did not have sex.

Much of Christian dating, sex, and marriage articles and books I read as a teenager, and many of the sermons I heard on those topics, either stated out right, or implied very strongly, that if a Christian female remains sexually pure, seeks after God, stays skinny and pretty, prays to God, and has faith in God for a spouse, that God will send that young woman a “Christian Mr. Right” by the time she reaches mid or late 20s. I did all of those things and still find myself single in my early 40s.

I have seen other never-married Christian ladies in their 30s, 40s, and 50s give the same witness on other blogs: they too were sold a false bill of goods.

They were told by preachers, Christian relationship books and so forth, that if they trusted God for a spouse and did not have sex, that God would grant them, or reward them, with a spouse, and that the spouse would likely also be another Christian virgin.

However, in the last few years, I’ve seen Christians on TV shows, radio shows, and on blogs, declaring that all of us are sexual sinners (i.e. fornicators, who have literally had sexual intercourse).

Or, there is this understanding among some Christians that all people have had sex outside of marriage (or else are porn addicts), so, their philosophy is to present an “Easy Forgivism Sex Gospel” to soothe any guilt or shame feelings sexual sinners may have.

I find these constant appeals of “let sexual sinners off the hook and be all forgive-y to them, because all of us have sexual sin” confusing and discouraging, because I am in my early 40s and have not had sexual intercourse. It is simply not true that “all of us are fornicators.”

These easy forgivism attitudes towards sexual sin amounts to telling Christians they should not judge people’s sexual pasts, or hold their sexual pasts against them, nor should they adhere to biblical sexual standards, or expect others to live by them. Christians are further given the message – by other Christians – that they should not make an idol of virginity, and if you yourself have fornicated (had sex outside of marriage), to forgive yourself and move on.

The thinking is that nobody but nobody can hold out and resist sexual urges into their twenties and beyond, that we’re all guilty of fornicating, or habitually visiting X-rated sites.

Even though all of us are not guilty of these things – it is wrongly assumed all of us are, though.

The liberals and emergents think that Christians should cease with the virginity teachings and sexual purity teachings because some women, who chose to have sex as teens or as college students, feel guilty, ashamed, or dirty when they hear in sermons or Christian programs that sex outside of marriage is a sin.

Then your sexual abuse victims, who were fondled at age six by their Uncle Harry, say these sexual purity teachings hurt their feelings.

According to this “sensitive, delicate flower doctrinal” view point, Christians are to allow their emotions to dictate and influence which doctrines and morals Christians should accept, teach, and practice, and specifically, shame and guilt emotions should regulate how, when, or if biblical standards of sexual behavior are discussed, taught, or maintained.

Christian author and journalist Julia Duin is among one of the few who I’ve seen speak out or about the devaluing of sexual purity teachings and the mistreatment of Christian virgins.

Here is one post where Duin discussed the issue, and where she was rightfully critical of Russell D. Moore’s easy dismissal of virginity:

(Link): Where are America’s virgins? Discouraging the virtuous, by Julia Duin Here is an excerpt, the part where she mentions Moore:

    This past spring in Touchstone, a conservative Christian publication, Russell Moore, a Southern Baptist minister who is dean of Southern Seminary’s School of Theology in Louisville, penned “Like, A Virgin?” His essay criticized a chaste female who wanted her husband to be a virgin like she is. He hinted she was being unrealistic and judgmental for judging a potential mate on his sexual history rather than his Christian commitment. This hapless woman resisted the spirit of the age and yet, her Christian leader denigrated her values. So much for seeking out a pastor’s advice.

–end excerpt–

If I’m not mistaken, Duin was responding to this column by Moore (or one similar to it):

(Link): How Much Do I Need to Know About My Potential Spouse’s Sexual Past? My Response – By Russell Moore

That Duin piece above, was, in turn criticized by this James Kushiner guy:

(Link): Doesn’t Like “Like, a Virgin?” by James M. Kushiner

Here are excerpts from the page by Kushiner, who is critical of Duin for criticizing Moore’s views:

He [Moore] is clear throughout the article about the Christian teaching about sexual activity, that fornication is “damnable”, and the sad necessity that couples even have to have “the conversation,”….

–end excerpt–

The problem, my dear Mr. Kushiner, is that Christians speak out of both sides of their mouth on the celibacy and virginity and all related issues (eg, marriage/ singleness/ gender roles, etc etc). It’s all fine and good if Moore mentions in passing that ((Link): source)

    What’s important for you to know is how he [the letter writer’s fiance] views sexual immorality. A man who will brush off past fornication as “no big deal” from which he’s “moved on” is a man with a conscience trained to do the same thing with future adultery.

–end excerpt–

But then Moore’s next commentary betrays a true support of sexual purity when he condescendingly lectures this young woman that,

    On the other hand, your dismissing him automatically on the basis of immorality is also dangerous. If he is repentant, seeing his past sin as hell-deserving but crucified, then you should receive him (all else being equal), just as you have been received.
    You are not “owed” a virgin because you are.
    Your sexual purity wasn’t part of a quid pro quo in which God would guarantee you a sexually unbroken man.
    Your sexual purity is your obligation as a creature of God. And you have rebelled at other points, and been forgiven. If you believe the gospel, you believe the gospel for everyone, and not just for yourself.

–end excerpt–

It’s very easy for those who have fornicated themselves, or who are currently married (they were a virgin when they wed, but are currently getting their sexual needs met in marriage), and I am guessing Moore and Kushiner fall into either one of those groups, to be so blithe and dismissive of sexual sin, and/or to lecture a single virgin who wants marriage that it is selfish or unforgiving to be concerned about a potential partner’s sexual past or to desire a virgin to marry.

Really, Mr. Moore, if a person’s sexual past is basically “no biggie,” as you make it out to be (despite your “fornication is not good” spiel in the same column), and a person should just drop the matter and let it go as though it’s nothing, if the person has repented of it, what then, is the point in me personally staying a virgin?

The message I receive from these views is that I might as well be having sex right now with various men, or just one steady boyfriend, since according to Moore, if I do get a marriage proposal from a Christian man in the future, he should just overlook my fornication with some other guy. Continue reading “Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner”

Dude Arguing for Legalization of Prostitution Uses Same Rationale as Christians Concerning Celibacy and Sexual Purity

Dude Arguing for Legalization of Prostitution Uses Same Rationale as Christians Concerning Celibacy

LOL. Ironic. On (Link): the Janet Mefferd Show-7/11/2013, she quotes some (Non Christian?) guy who says he wants prostitution legalized. His basis for this is in part because everywhere people go through out their day, they see sexy sexified sexually alluring sexy images, on billboards, in magazines, and on television.

He feels this creates an expectation in people, and they have a right to get that expectation met via sex, and from prostitution, if they don’t have a spouse. He feels it is unrealistic or mean to expect people to control their urges, or to ask them to deny their sexual urges.

Radio host Mefferd, who is a Christian, mocked this guy for all this, and she mocked the plight of the hypothetical guy the pro-prostitution guy was using – that is, a guy who is single, sexually frustrated, and lonely.

Understand I’m not a fan of prostitution, but I do think Mefferd needs to be a bit more sympathetic to the struggles older singles face.

It’s not loving or compassionate to mock and ridicule the fact that a lot of singles are lonely and want to have sex, but have nobody to have sex with, or nobody to share their life with.

Mefferd happens to be married by the way, with two or three kids, so I would assume she is not lonely and is getting her sexual needs met. It’s oh so easy for married people such as her, who are in what I would assume, is a relatively healthy marriage, to mock singles or their plight.

Anyway, the funniest, or saddest, thing about this Non-Christian’s guy’s rationale for the legalization of prostitution is the very same one preachers and Christian dating advice writers give for why celibacy and virginity among adults is unrealistic, or
2. for the defeatist attitude among even conservative Christians these days, that
a. since anyone and everyone is fornicating, or
b. that since nobody can resist sexual urges and will eventually fornicate,
we might as well teach an, “Oh well, so you fell down and blew it sexually, God forgives sexual sin, just call yourself a “born again virgin” now, and all is well” philosophy.

Non-Christian- prostitution- supporter guy, who Mefferd was mocking on her program, was only saying the same exact thing Christian preachers, Christian TV personalities, and Christian bloggers have been saying the last few decades: nobody can expect anyone to withstand sexual temptation, so we might as well [insert solution here for each respective party] and we should give up on the idea of sexual purity, celibacy, and virginity.

Hell, self- professing Christians nowadays, such as “emergents,” the liberals, and apparently popular Christian blogger Rachel Held Evans, have apparently given up on Christian teachings and standards of sexual purity,
1. deeming Christian sexual purity teachings too hurtful to the feelings of women who may have been molested when they were three years old by Uncle Fred; or
2. are considered too hurtful or shaming by women who diddled their college sweetie 25 years ago; or,
3. such teachings on purity should be abandoned because society tends to be more forgiving of males that diddle than they are of females.

Nobody, not even most Christians, believes in celibacy or virginity anymore.

Conservative Christians, emergent Christians, liberal Christians, and Non Christians only come up with different solutions or approaches to sex, or how to deal with the aftermath of sex (e.g., unplanned pregnancy, men who won’t commit to marriage, etc).

I don’t see anyone saying, “Hey you, with the burning groin o’ lust: I know you want to have sex, but that doesn’t mean you have to cave in and do it.”

Your dippy, simplistic Southern Baptists such as Al Mohler, or Christian think tanks and groups, such as Focus on the Family, and other blockhead conservatives would say, “Just get married if you want to have sex!”

Yeah, dumb ass, and how do singles who want marriage go about doing that? Can single women order a groom off a shopping site online? No, they can’t. Getting a spouse is not easy. Singles cannot snap their fingers and make a spouse appear. Even going to social functions or joining a dating site does not guarantee a date, let alone a spouse.

So, pro-prostitution guy’s position concerning sex is not any different from most Christians I see these days: there is no expectation that people can stay virgins past age 25-30 or stay celibate.

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re Celibacy

(Link): Famous Historical Christian Figure Expects Everyone To Fail At Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

Christians Should Stop Obsessing About Culture Wars, Winning Via Politics

Christians Should Stop Obsessing About Culture Wars, Winning Via Politics

I’d say I agree with about everything this guy said:

The Church in Secular Culture

(This is from page 1; click the link above to read the rest):

    As co-director of the Centre for Public Christianity (CPX), John Dickson (author of Humilitas) works to engage Australia’s mainstream media and general public with thoughtful content that explores the relevance of the Christian faith for the modern world. Marshall Shelley and Drew Dyck sat down with Dickson to discuss what American church leaders can learn from his experience with CPX.
  • How would you describe the public’s perception of the church in Australia?
  • In recent years it’s become a dominant perspective to say that religion starts all the wars, religion rapes and pillages, and religion is damaging for society. The subtitle of a Christopher Hitchens book—How Religion Poisons Everything—has become a secular mantra.
  • Recently in Australia a TV talk show was discussing the problem of drugs. One of the hosts said, “Let’s put this in perspective. Drugs have not killed anywhere near as many people as religion. Religion is far more damaging to society than our drug problem.” And it got applause from the TV audience. What a sad day we’ve arrived at when you can get away with that and, worse, get applause.
  • How does the Centre for Public Christianity try to counter this perception of the church?
  • CPX is trying to communicate that there’s another story here. We can concede the bad stuff that the church has done. As an historian, I know the bad stuff, and we will freely admit it. Yet we also want to tell about the positive contributions Christianity has made in Western history. We try to articulate that some of the things we love most about Western secular democracy are actually gifts of Christianity to Western culture.

Continue reading “Christians Should Stop Obsessing About Culture Wars, Winning Via Politics”

‘Glory of Virginity’ Movement vis a vis Abortion / Porn other issues

‘Glory of Virginity’ Movement

‘Glory of Virginity’ Movement was mentioned in a CBN report about abortion (there is commentary by me about all this much farther down the page, under the link to a video):

(Link): Man Up! Men Urged to End Abortion’s War on Women

    Women may get abortions, but without men, there wouldn’t be any abortions — or sex trafficking, or pornography. These are almost exclusively areas where male users create female victims.

    …Paul Cole leads the Christian Men’s Network, which specializes in mentoring men. He says many abortions happen because of men who refuse to step up and father the lives they’ve created.

    Brian Fisher, president of Online for Life, says abortion is the perfect convenience for such boyish men who desire to satisfy their sexual urges with no danger of commitment. “Abortion is the ultimate get-out-of-jail-free card for men who want to be sexually promiscuous,” Fisher stated.

    Cole pointed out, “The vast majority of abortions are paid for by men. Why is that? Because they don’t want to accept responsibility for what they created.”

    …According to Fisher, that means “men can sleep with whoever they want to and if the woman gets pregnant, not only does the man have no responsibility, he has no legal right to have responsibility.”

    ‘Man Up and Get Off the Porn’

    In his book, Abortion: the Ultimate Exploitation of Women, Fisher advocates “manning up” to fight abortion. One major way may seem surprising.

    “Get off the porn,” Fisher said.

    The author points to decades of research that show the results of pornography.

    “Multiple sexual partners, adultery, wrecked marriages, issues with long-term commitment,” Fisher stated. “All those things have been extremely well-documented. Well, those are all the seeds of unplanned pregnancy.”

    Cole cites research that shows for every 10 men in the average church, five have a major problem with pornography.

    He believes mentoring young people and teaching young men to be sexually pure and responsible can help control this sexual chaos.

    …Cole shared how a program tied to his ministry slashed the 33 percent AIDS rate in Uganda.

    “They began to train young men and women, 11, 12, 13, 14 years old, what it is to be sexually pure, what it is to be married to one person,” Cole said. “They began to meet in all the churches, all the schools.”

    This program introduced all over Uganda is called Glovimo: the GLOry of VIrginity MOvement.

    “Today in Uganda, the rate of AIDS is 6.4 percent,” Cole pointed out. “It is the only nation in the continent of Africa that has reversed the rate of AIDS.”

Here is a video about the group (which I think is based in Africa?) – I have not watched this video myself:

(Link): The Glory of Virginity Movement

    “The amazing story of a message on a videotape that changed the culture of Uganda and brought the rate of HIV-AIDS down from 32% in 1989 to 6.5% in 2011.”

(Link): Video: Glory of Virginity Movement

Edit: I have just watched part of that video which contains a sermon by a preacher who holds men equally accountable in sexual purity – he (I’m para-phrasing here; this is not a direct quote) mentions God expects MALES to remain VIRGINS too not ONLY FEMALES – a point I have raised several times on this blog.

Both males and females who discuss sexual purity and modesty teachings rarely address MALE RESPONSIBILITY in these contexts. Only females are expected to remain chaste, pure, and covered up, and then the feminists, liberal Christians, and emergents go on and on about how sexist or repressive they find this.

Even the feminists, (secular and Christian and emergent), who hate “sexual purity and modesty” teachings only address females in conversations about sexuality purity, modesty and virginity, never males. This is sexism (ironically).

Everyone is holding only females accountable, or paying attention to female sexuality alone, but the Bible says God holds males equally responsible in matters of sexuality.
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Related posts, this blog:

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

(Link): Are Christians Tossing Out Prohibitions Against Pre Martial Sex (radio show)

No Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity – Christians Attack and Criticize Virginity Sexual Purity Celibacy / Virginity Sexual Purity Not An Idol

No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity or Sexual Purity or Modesty

When doing a search for the phrase “does Christianity idolize motherhood,” several post headings by more liberal Christians, or secular critics, or emergents, popped up with the heading, “Do Christians Idolize Virginity.”

I looked over several of these pages.

The consensus by most of these bloggers and other writers is that yes, Christianity idolizes virginity, especially for women.

No, no, I’m afraid Christian culture does not idolize virginity, not for males or females. Far from it.

Conservative Christians pay a lot of lip service to celibacy and sexual purity, but most, including famous preachers, don’t live it out (look how many get caught having affairs and so forth; (Link): (see examples, or see this link for further examples) and do nothing to assist or encourage any Christian virgin past the age of 30.

I made this post so that anyone doing a search for “Do Christians idolize virginity” would find this, so I can direct you to my previous post on this blog -please see the following post:

(Link): The Contemporary Church Undervalues Celibacy / Virginity – Christians do not truly support celibacy or virginity let alone idolize either one – especially not for anyone over the age of 30

I’m a Christian virgin at age 40+ (I had hoped to be married by my mid 30s; staying single this long was not a choice) and Christian literature and many churches actually treats me, and those like me, as a freak, as a failure, and we older virgins don’t feel welcome in churches, because most of them worship marriage and family. Just visit my blog post linked above to read more.

The flip side of all this, is that some churches are paranoid about sexual sin and end up teaching younger -and even older- Christians to fear the opposite sex, to avoid any possibility of fornication, which means, Christians don’t date each other and eventually marry. I have written posts about that, too – see the categories off to the right of the blog page, “how Christians are keeping Christian singles single,” and “Christian teachings about dating.”

But, contrary to Rachel Held Evans, other emergents, liberals, and anyone antagonistic towards Christianity, there is really no idolization of sexual purity and virginity going on in Christian circles, not in most mainline, normal Christian denominations: the opposite is true; most preachers and denominations expect you will eventually fornicate, and they also preach an “easy forgivism” of sexual sin.

Remember, I said ‘normal’ and ‘mainline.’ I realize there are a few small, aberrant groups that claim Christianity who do go crazy with legalism over virginity and sexual purity. I’m not talking about those kook, hyper legalistic, fringe groups, but rather, the more common, run of the mill, conservative evangelical, Southern Baptist, and fundamentalist groups and churches.

See my previous post for more on this topic:

(Link): The Contemporary Church Undervalues Celibacy / Virginity
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Related posts, this blog:

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link): Conservatives Have Now Abandoned All Pretense of Advocating For Sexual Abstinence and They Actually Lament the Lack of Fornication – The Bradford Wilcox Piece, 2019

(Link): Stop Telling Adult Singles and Adult Virgins That Their Virginity and Singleness is “For God’s Glory” – just stop it already

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): A Day In The Life Of An Abstinence Ed Teacher by S. Gomez

(Link):  Gonorrhea Super Strain Becoming ‘Untreatable’ (in the UK; may ben heading to the USA) – 2015 story

(Link):  CDC Report: Virgin Teens Much Healthier Than Their Sexually Active Peers (2016 Report)

(Link):  Our Bodies Were Not Made for Sex by T. Swann

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming

(Link): Annie Murphy’s Sex and Relationship Column Gives Some Fantastic Advice About “Losing Your Virginity” by Princess Weekes

(Link):  Churches No Longer Teaching that Pre-Marital Sex is a Sin

(Link):  An Example of Mocking Adult Virginity Via Twitter (Virginity Used As Insult)

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Christians Speaking Out of Both Sides of Their Mouths About Sexual Sin – Choices and Actions and How You Teach This Stuff Has Consequences

(Link): Christian Gender Complementarian Group (CBMW) Anti Virginity and Anti Sexual Purity Stance (At Least Watered Down) – and their Anti Homosexual Marriage Position

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”

(Link): Joshua Rogers of Boundless / Focus on the Family Attacks Biblical Teaching of Virginity Until Marriage

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Emergents, Sexual Abuse Victims, some Feminists, and Liberals attacking sexual purity teachings and virgin until marriage teachings mentioned in the following post):

(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

(Link): Why So Much Fornication (sex outside of marriage) – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

(Link): Church Postcards That Would Keep Me Away From Church (Re Marriage and Family Vs Singles and Childless / Childfree)

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re: Celibacy
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American Women in the Military – topic on Mefferd Radio Show

I’m a little puzzled by radio host Janet Mefferd’s views about American women in combat.

Janet Mefferd is a Christian radio host who appears to be a gender complementarian and Reformed in doctrine (she interviews a lot of Reformed guys and seems to agree with their take on doctrine – unfortunately.)

I did not even want to listen to this segment (so I did not plan on writing about it).

I tuned into Mefferd’s show to listen to her interview some guy over his lawsuit against a preacher who was harassing him (Link: “Bill O’Neil talks about the Sovereign Grace Ministries lawsuit”).

I tuned in expecting to hear O’Neil but instead, Mefferd begins the show discussing the role of women in the American military.

In this show, Mefferd quotes a long piece by someone at Vision Forum approvingly. I believe that “Vision Forum” is into that patriarchy and (Link:) Quiverfull lunacy, if I’m not mistaken.

The piece Mefferd quotes from ‘Vision Forum’ mentions that women are the weaker sex, and she raised other points against the idea of women serving in the military (in combat positions).

I think Mefferd is forgetting that God placed a woman, Deborah, as a political and military leader over Israel. Deborah led the army of Isreal into battle (mentioned in Judges Chapter 4; and (Link:) you can read more about her here).

Another woman, Jael, drove a tent peg through the head of a sleeping Israeli enemy who sought her protection (see (Link:) Judges 4:21). If God doesn’t have an issue with women being violent, aggressive, and going on the attack (and He does not if the situation warrants it), I have no idea why Mefferd of gender complementarians do.

At one point, Mefferd says, “When you place women on the same level as men, men will begin to treat women like men.”

Well, that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

For one thing, Jesus Christ sought to ‘treat women like men,’ if you follow the Gospels: back in His day, Jewish culture taught that women were inferior to men, rabbis should not teach women (I think women were permitted back seat access to temple services but that was about it), etc.

Notice that Jesus treated women as equals to men. He did not talk down to them. He taught them serious doctrine. Jesus treated them as moral and intellectual equals to the males of His day… and all of this behavior SHOCKED his Jewish disciples. It was scandalous.

In the book of Genesis, God tells Adam and Eve that an outcome of the fall (sin entering humanity) is that men will rule over women (which was not God’s plan), and that women will seek this out – they will seek to be ruled (and this is called codependency – meaning, women looking to human males to be their saviors, instead of trusting completely in God).

One reason I object to all this hand-wringing over females serving in the military is that there are situations where a woman is going to be alone and without male protection in civilian life, so the whole point of a female being shot and killed in combat is rather moot.

Some Christian women never get married. Such women don’t have a husband to count on, to financially support them, or to defend them.
Continue reading “American Women in the Military – topic on Mefferd Radio Show”

Liberal Christian Gal Throws Fit Over My Post About Celibacy / Dissent

Dissent on the Christian Pundit Blog

Before I specifically address a message I received from a self-identified liberal Christian woman who was ticked off about my one of my previous posts about sexuality and virginity, I wanted to mention my policy of handling dissent on this blog.

To anyone who visits this blog: I sometimes delete posts by visitors who disagree with me, or who are argumentative or rude.

This is not a blog for debate; that is not its purpose (though I have allowed 2 or 3 posts whose authors disagreed with me to be published in the past, and I replied to them). I use this blog to ‘think aloud’ about things. I am not here to argue with people on this blog.

I have several discussion forums and groups where I work as a moderator, where I regularly allow people who disagree with me to post. I have my hands full with several of those forums and a few other blogs, where I do permit dissent and respond to critics.

I am spread too thin by having to bicker and enforce rules on other blogs, social groups, and sites to want to have to spread myself even thinner by putting in that kind of effort here.

Honestly, when I created this blog about 2 years ago (or three?) I never felt I’d get any followers or many readers. I kind of view this blog as an online journal of mine – not a debate forum.

I want at least one or two blogs where I can post my views without having to debate back and forth and not have to engage with the rude idiots or malcontents one comes across on the internet.

The Message from the Irate, Self- Identified Liberal Christian Female Who Reads The Bible As A Great Big
Allegory And Who Thinks It’s Peachy and Fine For Single Women To Have Sex Outside of Marriage

A few days ago, I received an e-mail notification that I got a new reply to a post on this blog (I think it was a response to the post about how the Church Undervalues Celibacy and Virginity, or it was a reply to a similar post on my blog).

The post was by a self-identified liberal Christian woman, who appeared to be in her 20s or 30s, based on her profile photo.

This liberal woman left a somewhat rude, or at least argumentative, post where she disagreed with my views, and based on her comments, I could tell she has no idea what I believe, because she assumed I hold opinions I do not. She attributed opinions to me that I do not hold.

She clearly had not read my other posts on this blog about my views pertaining to conservative Christianity, sex, marriage, dating, and singleness, and how the church treats people who are hurting and having problems.

I only skimmed her post in part and did not read it in detail, but based on what I remember, here were some of her points (please click the “more” link to read the rest of this post):
Continue reading “Liberal Christian Gal Throws Fit Over My Post About Celibacy / Dissent”