No Surprise There: Bradford Wilcox Deems Married People Better Off During Pandemic Than Single Adults – Rebuttals

No Surprise There: Bradford Wilcox Deems Married People Better Off During Pandemic Than Single Adults – Rebuttals

I have made several blog posts in years past discussing some of Bradford Wilcox’s articles about marriage for various publications.

Wilcox works for, is somehow affiliated with, organizations such as the National Marriage Project and Institute For Family Studies. He is very much about promoting marriage, natalism, and the nuclear family.

In years past, he has promoted marriage and all the rest at the expense of singleness: he loves to advance marriage by stigmatizing singleness.

Wilcox (and guys like him, such as Southern Baptist Al Mohler) likes to try to “scare” single adults into getting married by publishing faulty and fear-mongering essays about how studies (which he sometimes misquotes or misunderstands) supposedly say that singles are more likely to suffer this or that calamity or problem than are married people.

Any time Wilcox comments on any issue, you can guarantee before you click on the headline that his editorial will say that married people have X better than singles have X.

It doesn’t matter if he’s talking about financial issues – like in the link that follows – or some other topic.

His pieces are all heavily agenda-driven: to make marriage look fabulous by slamming singleness, or by making singleness look “worse” than marriage, or by making singleness look unsafe, scary, or miserable.

Continue reading “No Surprise There: Bradford Wilcox Deems Married People Better Off During Pandemic Than Single Adults – Rebuttals”

Christian School Teacher Whose Spouse Caught Her in Bed With Teen Sentenced by J. Salo

Christian School Teacher Whose Spouse Caught Her in Bed With Teen Sentenced by J. Salo

Does marriage make people more sexually pure, godly, loving, mature, or ethical, as so many Christians and politically conservative talking heads claim?

No, it does not.

This is the 100th millionth example on this blog of a married person who committed a serious sin.

Marriage does not make people more mature, godly, responsible, or ethical; “the family” or “marriage” will not save or fix a society.

Is married Christian sex “mind blowing,” as so much Christian teaching regarding sexual behavior suggests? Apparently not, if Christian wives like this feel the need to have sexual relations with a teen. Her husband wasn’t quite doing it for her.

Does someone have to obtain a standard of moral perfection, or some other criteria, before God will grant that person a spouse, as so many blogs, articles, and sermons by Christians suggest? No, obviously not, otherwise, this woman, who ended up being a skanky pervert, would not have gotten married.

(Link): Christian School Teacher Whouse Spouse Caught Her in Bed With Teen Sentenced by J. Salo

Excerpts:

February 11, 2019

A former Christian school teacher whose husband caught her in bed with a student was sentenced to prison, according to officials.

Andrea Nicole Baber, who taught at Logos Christian Academy, was ordered Friday to serve 20 months in prison for having sex with a student in Springfield, Oregon, (Link): the Register-Guard reported.

The 30-year-old educator pleaded guilty last month to rape and contributing to the sexual delinquency of a minor.

Continue reading “Christian School Teacher Whose Spouse Caught Her in Bed With Teen Sentenced by J. Salo”

Single People Aren’t Problems to Be Fixed or Threats to Be Neutralized By Ella Hickey

Single People Aren’t Problems to Be Fixed or Threats to Be Neutralized By Ella Hickey

I’ve noted in older posts how terrible Christian advice on the subjects of dating, marriage, and relationships are – if you’d like to see my posts on those subjects, some of them are linked to below, at the bottom of this post under the “Related Posts” section.

By the way, I would ask you to click on this link below to go to the page and read it, but, be sure to scroll to the bottom of the page to read any posts by single adults who leave comments, including one comment by a 60 year old lady with the screen name “janep75_2173,” who has been divorced for 20+ years, on how badly her local church treats her for being single.

(Link): Single People Aren’t Problems to Be Fixed or Threats to Be Neutralized

What’s missing from Christian books on dating, singleness, and purity

Excerpts:

…. [The author discusses having read numerous Christian books about dating, marriage, and relationships when she was a teen-ager]

….Our theology of singleness and the “not-yet-married” has gone unmonitored, unchanged, and unimpressive for too long. Much of it is built on outdated gender roles and unhelpful clichés that don’t apply easily to today’s dating world.

For example, many of these books assume that sexual attraction is the “burden” of men and not something women struggle with.

Or, many of these books assume that men will lead a dating relationship and women will follow. Others encourage men and women to avoid and fear each other to avoid “stumbling.”

Continue reading “Single People Aren’t Problems to Be Fixed or Threats to Be Neutralized By Ella Hickey”

The Stupid Billy Graham Rule Strikes Again, Via Relevant Magazine: ‘Is It OK for Married People to Text the Opposite Sex?,’ by Z. Carter

The Stupid Billy Graham Rule Strikes Again, Via Relevant Magazine: Is It OK for Married People to Text the Opposite Sex?, by Z. Carter

Not only did Relevant magazine (Christian publication) recently publish this dreck (link is much farther down this blog post), but a guy or two under Relevant’s Tweet about it were defending it, LOL.

This is basically a variation on the BGR (Billy Graham Rule), which generally casts singles as harlots, women in particular. Ergo, married men are strongly cautioned against talking to, showing compassion to, being around, taking phone calls from, adult single women.

(I have a collection of posts on my blog that refutes the BGR; please see links to those posts at the bottm of this one, under “Related Posts.”)

Jesus never taught the BGR, but actually befriended and talked to all sorts of women, including known prostitutes, divorced women, and so on.

Do evangelicals and the Reformed emulate Jesus on this, Jesus being the role model for all believers? Nope – they choose to emulate the rule-loving Pharisees who also taught men that all women are sexual temptresses, so men ought to avert their gaze if they see a woman walking by.

This paranoia of opposite-gender friendships ends up ostracizing and excluding single adults (some of whom may be lonely and in great need of platonic companionship, let alone romantic), it basically casts even virgins such as myself (over the age of 40) as being hookers and sluts, and it sexualizes every one.

For about four years now, I’ve been Facebook friends with a married guy on Facebook. He knows I’m single. I know he’s married. He knows I know he’s married.

I’ve also been friends with another married guy online for about ten or more years (we met on a forum) and we later became Facebook friends. This guy knows I know he’s married, and he knows I’m single.

And do you know what? This has not been a problem for any of us!

I sometimes even send private notes to the first friend on Facebook about some of my personal problems (stuff I don’t want to put on my Facebook wall).  At no time have I flirted with either male friend, nor have they flirted with me. It’s not even entered my mind!

Yes, it’s possible for single women to be pals with married dudes and nothing inappropriate happens.

I was engaged several years to a guy. My ex at one point rented his own home, then he went on to two different apartments.

I sometimes spent the night with him at these places (over night stays) even in the SAME BED, and we did NOT have sex. (I was very committed to the idea of remaining a virgin until marriage at that point in life. So, my ex and I did not have sex). It’s possible for two adults to spend time alone over night and not have sex.

I have a libido. My ex let me know he had one too – he respected my wishes and boundaries, but he let me know on more than one occasion he was “warm for my form” and was very tempted to get it on. However, we both had self control. Just because you’re alone with someone else and find them attractive does not mean that sex is inevitable.

At least several of the people who left comments below this page (on the Relevant site) were critical of the piece:

(Link):  Is It OK for Married People to Text the Opposite Sex? by Zack Carter

Excerpts.

Affairs don’t start with sex.

….However, I probably don’t have to tell you that too much can be dangerous—especially privacy with someone of the opposite sex.

Continue reading “The Stupid Billy Graham Rule Strikes Again, Via Relevant Magazine: ‘Is It OK for Married People to Text the Opposite Sex?,’ by Z. Carter”

Five Things Every (Christian) Married Man Should Stop Obsessing Over Around Single Women by J. Kamps

Five Things Every Married Man Should Stop Obsessing Over Around Single Women by J. Kamps

Thank you, Jean Kamps! Kamps is one of the very few married (Christian) women I’ve seen who comprehends how terribly Christianity, especially married Christian men, treat single women – the way most to all married, Christian men ASSUME (wrongly!) that all single women are minxes out to bed any and every married man we come across.

(These married Christian men must have some ego to assume I find them attractive enough to  want to boink. I don’t. Women are visual too and have sexual desire, but we don’t want to sleep with any and every man we come across.)

Often times some of the assumptions Kamps is addressing here in an article by a married Christian man, are taught under the BGR “Billy Graham Rule.” I have blogged on this topic many times before. I will put links to some of those posts at the bottom of my post, under “Related Posts.”

Continue reading “Five Things Every (Christian) Married Man Should Stop Obsessing Over Around Single Women by J. Kamps”

Christian Charity Head Admits Using Donations for Sex Habit

Christian Charity Head Admits Using Donations for Sex Habit

This article says that this guy is married (or was at one point; I have no idea if he’s still married to his wife or not).

Christians often think that married people are more sexually pure and moral than adult singles – they will often refuse to allow adult singles to serve in leadership positions in churches, one reason being, they assume that the single will “hit on” or start affairs with other people.

But if you will notice, the majority of news stories about Christians who are involved in affairs or looking at child porn and what have you, are MARRIED persons, NOT singles.

Which is not to say there are not self-professing Christian singles who aren’t sexually sinning, because there sure as heck are, but I’m so tired of this Christian stereotype that married people are as pure as the freshly driven snow, while we singles are supposedly a bunch of over-sexed horn dogs.

I myself am over the age of 40, and I am celibate. I am more sexually up-right than a lot of Christian married people. So Christians who harbor these stereotypes about singles being Jezebel harlots and married people being sexually pure can kiss my butt.

By the way, does the “be equally yoked” rule Christians apply to marriage REALLY MATTER when the “Christian” husband ends up cheating on his wife by using pornography or prostitutes or he has a mistress?

Does this example REALLY up-hold the Christian teaching that God expects a person to be mature or godly before he will permit him or her to have a spouse? No, it does not.

If God expected people to be totally moral, ethical, mature, and godly before allowing them to have a spouse, the idiot in this news story would still be single – but he’s not. He has a wife (or did. I am not clear if the wife is still with him or not).

(Link): Director of Cedar Rapids nonprofit skimmed donations to support ‘sex addiction’

(Link): Christian charity head admits using donations for sex habit 

(Link): Christian Charity Head Admits Using Donations for Sex Habit

  • by R. Roley
  • May 2016
  • The president of a Christian charity in Iowa admitted that he embezzled nearly a half-million dollars in donations and used the money to pay for a sex addiction, federal prosecutors said Tuesday.
  • Jon S. Petersen, of Cedar Rapids, pleaded guilty Monday to one count of filing a false tax return. He was released from custody pending a sentencing hearing, which hasn’t been scheduled.
  • Petersen, 55, is the longtime president of World Ambassadors, Ltd., a nonprofit he founded with his wife in 1993 to provide a Christian outreach to international students on college campuses.

Continue reading “Christian Charity Head Admits Using Donations for Sex Habit”

Eight Ways to Rethink the Conversation About Singleness by K. Kreminski

Eight Ways to Rethink the Conversation About Singleness by K. Kreminski

  • PREFACE: my blog stalker, John Morgan, is probably going to take this link I spotted today and share it on his own blog, reference it on his own blog, or visit this other blog to leave a comment there.
  • The guy apparently takes content from my blog without giving me credit, which is not only dishonest or unfair, but it’s hypocritical, because in the past he deemed me untrustworthy for not stating my real name on my blog or posts.
  • If you think I am untrustworthy for using a pen name, or for whatever reason, stop taking any links, content, and ideas from my blog to use on your own blog, or to run over to other sites I link to in order to leave comments there. You are being a huge hypocrite.
  • Please see (Link): this post for more on John Morgan or (Link): this post. Thank you.

This blog post by Kreminski about singleness (link and excerpt much farther below) hits on several points I’ve been raising on my own blog for the last 3 or 4 years:

Christians are already too marriage focused, and in their defensive posture of saving culture and marriage from what they perceive as threats (such as homosexual marriage and liberalism), they hype marriage to the exclusion of singleness.

Some conservatives and Christians go so far as to denigrate singleness in order to extol marriage, something the Bible never does. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 7 it is better to stay single than marry, and that marriage does nothing but bring people problems in life.

I have also noted on my blog many times before that the demographics in our nation (and others) have shifted with more people staying single over their lifetimes, or, if they marry, they are marrying at much older ages than they used to. Most conservative expressions of Christianity, however, continue to cater to married couples.

Out of the Christians who do notice this demographic shift, they shame singles for being singles and promote something called “early marriage.” These Christians shame and scold Christians to get married, rather than just accept them in their single status.

In previous blog posts, I have also discussed what I termed “Married People Privilege.” Married people, especially ones with children, like to think that their lives are ten times more difficult than that of childless singles.

Continue reading “Eight Ways to Rethink the Conversation About Singleness by K. Kreminski”

The Hope Of The Pharisees by Ty Grigg (Re: Platonic Male Female Relationships)

The Hope Of The Pharisees by Ty Grigg (Re: Platonic Male Female Relationships)

If you are an un-married woman, you will be isolated in churches, due to evangelical and conservative Christian paranoia that single women are sexual temptresses, and that all men are supposedly incapable of controlling their sexual behavior.

If you are a single woman, you will not be invited over by married couples, if you so much say “Hello, nice weather” to a married man, his paranoid Christian wife will march right up and protectively drape her arm over his to send you the signal “back off hussy, he’s taken.”

The stereotypes about single women being overly sexed harlots (and ones who are particularly anxious to boink married men) exclude them.

(Link): The Hope Of The Pharisees by Ty Grigg (Re: Platonic Male Female Relationships)

Excerpt:

    In the conversation about how men and women relate to one another in the church, our imagination for sin and disaster is much stronger than our imagination for God’s reconciling love and holiness. We are still taking our cues from the old age, not the new. The moral failure story triumphs over the transformation now available in the death and resurrection of Christ.

    If our vision for life in Christ is focused on protecting ourselves from external temptations to sin and our internal evil impulses, then by all means we should adopt the posture of the Pharisees, and defend against all threats – including relationships with the opposite gender.

    Continue reading “The Hope Of The Pharisees by Ty Grigg (Re: Platonic Male Female Relationships)”

Islamic Group ISIS Stones Women To Death For Not Being Virgins

Islamic Group ISIS Stones Women To Death For Not Being Virgins

I think the American church has become too lax on sexual sin, and they don’t support virginity, but I do think killing people for fornication in this point in history is extreme (which is an understatement) – if I remember right, death by stoning was the penalty for fornication in the Old Testament.

The news reports said at least one of the women was not a virgin because she was a widow.

(Link): Two Women Stoned To Death by Isis on Accusations of Adultery

    In separate incidents in a span of 24 hours, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) carried out executions against two woman in Syria, sentencing them to death by stoning over allegations of “adultery”.

    Unconfirmed reports claim that in at least one case, the woman was sentenced to death as her new husband found that she was not a virgin.

    Both incidents of death by stoning have been reported from Al Raqqa Province.

    “The Islamic State carried out, for the second time in 24 hours, the punishment of Al Rajem (stoning to death for adultery) against another woman in the city of Al Raqqa in a square near the Municipal Stadium,” an official from NGO Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR) stated.

    The stoning, which was first reported by the SOHR, has also been confirmed by Al Jazeera which claimed that the first stoning took place in a public square in the town of Tabaqa on Thursday evening.

    The report noted that the woman was tried at the Islamic Sharia court, where neither the witnesses who made the allegation were identified, nor the man – who is said to be the paramour – was charged.

(Link): Woman Stoned In Syria For Not Being A Virgin Was A Widow, ISIS Threaten ‘Death By Sword’

    A woman stoned in Syria by ISIS jihadists in the northern Raq province was put to death for not being a virgin. But some reports are claiming she was in fact a widow.

——————————
Related posts:

(Link): Biblical Balance in Teaching About Sexual Sin – don’t white wash and downplay sexual sin, but don’t continually beat people up over it

(Link): No Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity – Christians Attack and Criticize Virginity Sexual Purity Celibacy / Virginity Sexual Purity Not An Idol

Married Utah Woman Teacher Accused of Molesting Teen Students

Married Utah Woman Teacher Accused of Molesting Teen Students

The common misconceptions among conservative Christians is that

    1. Marriage makes a person immune from sexual sin
    2. Marriage makes a person automatically holy, pure, godly, self-less, mature
    3. Married women are dis-interested in sex
    4. Married sex (especially if you are a virgin when you marry) is so “mind blowing” you’ll never be tempted to have sex outside of marriage

Observe how the following story implodes, once more, all these false assumptions.

(Link): MARRIED UTAH TEACHER NOW ACCUSED OF MOLESTING MORE TEENS

    by WARNER TODD HUSTON
    8 Aug 2014, 12:58 PM

    Married Utah school teacher Brianne Altice had already been in trouble for having sexual relations with one of her male teen students, but just as her trial was set to begin, charges that she molested another student were leveled against her.

    Altice, 35, an English teacher at a high school in Kaysville, Utah, had been arrested last October for molesting a teen who was once her student. A jury trial was set for September, but that was canceled when prosecutors filed amended charges accusing her of several more counts connected with the molestation of a second student.

    On July 2, prosecutors added three more first-degree felonies after a young man, who was 17 in 2013, said he also had a sexual relationship with Altice. This case was then added to the original case of a 16-year-old who claimed a sexual relationship with the teacher in 2013.
    Altice now faces four counts of rape and two counts of forcible sodomy.

————————
Related posts:

(Link): Marriage Does Not Make People More Loving Mature Godly Ethical Caring or Responsible (One Stop Thread)

(Link): Groundbreaking News: Women Like Sex (part 1, 2) (articles)

(Link): Christian Stereotypes About Female Sexuality : All Unmarried Women Are Supposedly Hyper Sexed Harlots – But All Married Ones are Supposedly Frigid or Totally Uninterested in Sex

(Link): When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men – and how the stereotype flipped

Four Lies the Church Taught Me About Sex (from Relevant)

Four Lies the Church Taught Me About Sex (from Relevant)

This woman’s page is basically a re-hash of points I have already blogged about here on my blog several times over.

I left a few comments in the reader section of the page at the bottom. I also see that the unhinged person John Morgan ((Link): who stalked and pestered me for over a year left a wrong headed comment at the page as well. He was actually disputing points of her post, but what she said was true.)

Here’s the link to the page (with more commentary by me below this excerpt):

(Link): Four Lies the Church Taught Me About Sex (from Relevant) BY LILY DUNN

Excerpts.

    I’ve heard people say that growing up as an evangelical meant they never talked about sex. This wasn’t my experience. I grew up in the thick of evangelical purity culture and we talked about sex A LOT. We just spent all of that time talking about how and why NOT to have it.

As someone who waited until I was married to have sex, I was assured that I would be guaranteed an easy and rewarding sex life. When reality turned out to be different, I was disappointed and disillusioned. Only through gradual conversations with other married friends did I realize I wasn’t alone.

…. Here are four of the biggest lies about sex I believed before marriage

1. Any and all physical contact is like a gateway drug to sex.

[snip commentary under this point of hers – use link above to visit the page to read the entire page]

2. If you wait until you are married to have sex, God will reward you with mind-blowing sex and a magical wedding night. 


[snip]

3. Girls don’t care about sex.

As a teenager and young adult I cannot count the times I heard something to this effect: “Boys are very visual and sexual, so even though you aren’t thinking about sex, you need to be careful because you are responsible for not making them stumble.”

Let’s disregard for now how degrading this is toward men and focus on the underlying assumption that boys are sexual and girls aren’t. For years I was told that “girls don’t care about sex.” Well, as it turns out, I do. This has been a deep source of shame for me. For a long time I felt like a freak, until I started to realize that I wasn’t the only one, not by a longshot. But I never knew it because no one would admit it.

Many girls (yes, even Christian girls) think about sex. Many girls (yes, even Christian girls) like sex. This doesn’t make you a freak. It doesn’t make you unfeminine or unnatural. God created us, both men AND women, as sexual beings. Enjoying sex makes you a human being created by God, in the image of God, with the capacity and desire to love—physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually and sexually.

Here is the comment by my stalker John Morgan, that he left in the reader comment section below the woman’s post at the Relevant site ((Link): Source):

      1. Hand holding leading to sex being taught by most parents, teachers, church leaders and books? That’s hard to believe.
      2. Discussing your body being locked up on your wedding night was the responsibility of your church?
      I think that would fall to your OB-GYN doctor.
      3. Girls don’t care about sex?
      That sounds like something your culture taught you, not your church.
    4. “Many of us have programmed guilt into ourselves.” That’s not the church’s fault. It’s your fault.

How are churches presenting saving sex until marriage in a “distorted way.” It sounds like what you experienced was due to your own unrealistic expectations, not due to anything the church taught. It’s sort of like running up to a firefighter that just pulled a woman from a burning house and saying: “Excuse me, but you did that all wrong. Could you take her back in the house and do it again?”

My reply to this unglued son of a gun ((Link): Source)

@ John Morgan.

John Morgan said,
“1. Hand holding leading to sex being taught by most parents, teachers, church leaders and books? That’s hard to believe.”

No, dude, it’s really not hard to believe. How dare you feign ignorance of this point, when I’ve been blogging about that topic and the others she mentions on this page on my Word Press Christian Pundit blog for two or three years now, which you know, because you’ve been to that blog and have read It – and even though I had to ban you from that blog, I know you still came by and read it.

Christians sexualize almost everything.

Baptists, fundamentalists, the Reformed, and evangelicals are so paranoid that any and all male-female enter-action will lead to sex, they warn single adults to stay away from each other, or they sternly caution singles not to so much as go out to coffee dates with each other for platonic chit chat, for the fear it will TURN TO SEX.

(Examples of this, with book titles and page numbers can be found in the book “Singled Out” by Field and Colon, if anyone needs documentation. I also have examples, with links, on my Word Press blog.)

Christians do not believe that men and women can be platonic friends.

Christians are especially paranoid that all un-married women are randy little harlots who set their sights on married Christian men, so in their sermons, blogs, and books, they frequently tell married Christian men above all never to meet alone with an un-married woman, don’t give her a lift in a car, keep the office door open if a woman meets you in your office, etc.

I have blogged examples of married Christian saying that kind of trash at my blog, such as…

“Southern Baptists Perpetuate Myths About Genders, Sex, and Adult Singles at 2014 ERLC Summit – All Women Are harlots, men cannot control themselves”
https://christianpundit.wordpress.com/2014/04/22/southern-baptists-perpetuate-myths-about-genders-sex-and-adult-singles-at-2014-erlc-summit/

A quote from one article I linked to on that page:
“A panel led by Bethancourt offered suggestions to help pastors stay sexually pure, including leaning on Jesus and putting a glass door on the office so others can see in.”

John Morgan said,
“2. Discussing your body being locked up on your wedding night was the responsibility of your church? I think that would fall to your OB-GYN doctor.”

She’s saying that the church’s slanted, warped views about sex and sexuality created psychological problems, which manifested themselves as physical issues for her. And that is her church’s responsibility.

Also, given that we are living in a church culture where

1. every other sermon has a title such as, “Ten Tips For Great Married Sex” and where
2. Rev Mark Driscoll tells Christian married couples in his “Real Marriage” book that they should have anal sex, and he advises, even during church services, that women are commanded by the Bible to perform oral sex on their spouses, and where
3. Pastor Ed Young Jr had a “Sexperiment” at church, where he and his wife got into a bed on the church’s roof…

I don’t see it as a stretch for a church to go ahead and discuss her particular problem in this area. They might as well, they are discussing every other sexual topic under the sun already.

John Morgan said,

“3. Girls don’t care about sex? That sounds like something your culture taught you, not your church.”

No, that is in fact something churches, preachers, and Christians do in fact teach – that only men are visually stimulated and enjoy sex, while women (especially married ones) supposedly prefer “emotional bonding” and have to be cajoled into having sex.

(Conversely, un-married Christian women are assumed by most churches to be randy harlots who bed hundreds of men per week.)

I have blogged about that nasty gender stereotype repeatedly at my blog the last two years, which I know you have read, so you cannot feign ignorance.

Many Christians support something called “gender complementarianism” which buys into secular American gender stereotypes, including ones pertaining to sex.

These attitudes and stereotypes are promoted in churches and Christian culture via Christian groups such as CBMW (Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood), for example. They publish magazine articles promoting these views, hold conferences, tweet about these views, etc.

The Christian guys who are into full blown patriarchy, such as Doug Phillips and the Vision Forum, and the Home schooling Christian groups, are ten times worse than the run- of- the- mill Christian gender complementarians about these gender stereotypes and sexuality – and they too promote their views in their magazines, conferences, books, etc., which do influence people, especially teenagers, 20 somethings and naïve or insecure adult women (and some men).

Preachers, and other Christian personalities, such as Ed Young Sr., Mark Driscoll, Jimmy Evans, Christian marriage guru M. Gungor and others, teach the belief that “women and girls don’t like sex, don’t want sex, and don’t think about sex” constantly in their books, blogs, and sermons.

Here are some of my posts about these topics:

Christian stereotypes about female sexuality:
https://christianpundit.wordpress.com/2014/01/20/christian-stereotypes-about-female-sexuality-all-unmarried-women-are-supposedly-hyper-sexed-harlots-but-all-married-ones-are-supposedly-frigid-or-totally-uninterested-in-sex/

When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men – and how the stereotype flipped:
https://christianpundit.wordpress.com/2014/04/21/when-women-wanted-sex-much-more-than-men-and-how-the-stereotype-flipped/

The reverse to that Christian stereotype about women is that all Christian men are horny horn dogs who are so sexually uncontrolled they are practically raping every woman they meet. I have blogged about that before too.

John Morgan said,
“How are churches presenting saving sex until marriage in a “distorted way.” It sounds like what you experienced was due to your own unrealistic expectations, not due to anything the church taught. “

Wow. You pretend on your own blog as though Christians get singles and celibacy all wrong, but then you come on to this blog and say the exact opposite, which makes it sound as though you are just trolling this lady’s blog post.

Yes, churches are in fact teaching virginity-until-marriage in a distorted way.

I have example after example at my blog of how they are doing so. Churches constantly re-enforce unrealistic expectations, such as telling young Christians if they just wait until their wedding night to have sex, that the sex will be great and wonderful – which is often not the case at all (I have examples at my blog).

Most churches these days are not supporting virginity, but for the ones who bother to do so, they are adding a lot of un-biblical baggage on to the concept that messes people up, or giving men sexist ideas about women and female sexuality.

Here are some examples of how Christians make dating overly sexualized and instill a fear that a kiss on the cheek, meeting for a cup of coffee, or hand holding can lead to sex…

Also, some Christian para-church groups teach a bogus thing called “emotional virginity” where they warn the genders not to talk too much to each other, because that equals fornication, or will lead to it. See these examples:

Independent Fundamentalist Baptist College Kid Friendship Permission Form – Christians lowering marriage rates due to their own stupid teachings about sex, dating, marriage, etc

https://christianpundit.wordpress.com/2014/01/04/independent-fundamentalist-baptist-college-kid-friendship-permission-form-christians-lowering-marriage-rates-due-to-their-own-stupid-teachings-about-sex-dating-marriage-etc/

Sterling Example of How Christians are Keeping Single Christians Single Forever (Re Very Long Courtship List)
https://christianpundit.wordpress.com/2013/06/29/sterling-example-of-how-christians-are-keeping-single-christians-single-forever/

How Christians Keep Christians Single (part 4) – and Emotional Virginity Teaching
https://christianpundit.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/how-christians-keep-christians-single-part-4-and-emotional-virginity-teaching/

Another person, named R.S., left him this comment ((Link): Source)

    The tone of your response is really troubling to me because you seem to distilling her points into the most extreme conclusions and then dismissing them. I don’t think she was trying to say this is EVERYONE’S experience with “The Church” but that this sort of warped view of sex has been damaging to those raised with it, and yet it is still being taught in some churches.

1. Believe it. Some strains of fundamentalist and evangelical Christianity, especially those that subscribe to the purity/courtship movement, DO preach that kissing, holding hands, etc can be a ‘slippery slope’. Some churches are more explicit and strict than others about the boundaries of physical contact between sexes, but it is definitely seen in many Christian circles as being suspect. An example: “‎True love isn’t expressed in passionately whispered words, an intimate kiss, or a embrace; before two people are married, love is expressed in self-control, patience, even words left unsaid.” (Joshua Harris) And this: http://www.amazon.com/Princess-Kiss-Story-Gods-Purity/dp/0871628686 (PS When can we expect the publication of ‘The Price and the Kiss’ or is ‘purity’ only for girls?)

2. No, it’s not. But some churches set up false expectations when they overemphasized the rewards of staying a virgin until marriage and failed to mention the challenges that come with it once married. Like implying that it would be possible to repress all sexual thoughts and actions through puberty and young adulthood, and then suddenly flip the switch and be able to have mind-blowing martial sex that was “worth the wait”. Or the frequent promise that sex or marriage would be ‘blessed’ because you did it “God’s way”. So when those things don’t turn out to be true, it can be devastating to one’s identity (something must be wrong with ME), or one’s faith (God didn’t keep his promises).

3. Um no. This train of thought is alive and well in many churches. Men are from Mars and only want sex sex sex. Women are from Venus and want emotional intimacy. Men are sexual animals, women are frigid prudes. Pick up almost any Christian dating/marriage advice book and it couldn’t be clearer on how narrowly the genders are defined by these sexual stereotypes. This type of thinking is so prevalent in so many churches that I actually wonder if Christians are the ones who propagated these beliefs in our culture at large and not the other way around. Christian purity culture is no different except for the massive double standard it espouses: that “all guys think about and want is sex” (and therefore should be treated with suspicion), that women should dress modestly to “keep their brother from stumbling” (as if they are responsible for controlling their brother’s actions), that women must set the boundaries and hold the reigns on how physical things get because guys just can’t control themselves. But there’s not a word on WOMEN being obsessed with sex, turned on by guy’s bodies, or having trouble controlling sexual urges… in fact it is often implied that young women who desire purity must control themselves AND their ‘brothers’.

4. Churches who overemphasize purity/virginity as being the most valuable thing a young woman can possess and sexual sin as being the worst thing she can possibly do programs a lot of guilt, shame, repression, and confusion into impressionable young minds regarding pretty much any form of sexual expression, and that doesn’t necessarily go away once married. I think churches that preach that are deeply responsible for the twisted sexuality they have promoted and the damaging effects it has had.

Since it sounds like you might be unfamiliar with this ‘purity culture’ strain of teaching that has infested so many churches, here are some blog posts from other women who have lived through it:
http://www.elizabethesther.com/2013/01/virginity-new-improved.html

In which I am damaged goods

http://darcysheartstirrings.blogspot.com/2011/01/how-teachings-of-emotio…
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/permissiontolive/2011/04/courtship-is-not-t…
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/09/elizabeth-smart-pur…

Yes, I have been blogging about those very points on this blog the last couple of years, in posts such as:

(Link): Christian Stereotypes About Female Sexuality : All Unmarried Women Are Supposedly Hyper Sexed Harlots – But All Married Ones are Supposedly Frigid or Totally Uninterested in Sex

(Link): How the Sexual Revolution Ruined Friendship – Also: If Christians Truly Believed in Celibacy and Virginity, they would stop adhering to certain sexual and gender stereotypes that work against both

(Link): Groundbreaking News: Women Like Sex (part 1, 2) (articles)

(Link): When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men – and how the stereotype flipped

(Link): Relationships Of Welcome, Not Fear (Re: How Sexist Christian Views Marginalize and Isolate Adult, Single Women and Maintain Other Stereotypes About Adult Singles)

(Link): Hey Ed Stetzer: Opposite Gender Friendships Are Not Sinful – Ed Stetzer’s Advice: “Avoid Any Hint” – More Like: Re Enforce UnBiblical Stereotypes About Men, Women, Sex, and Singles

(Link): Jesus Christ was not afraid to meet alone with known Prostitutes / Steven Furtick and Elevation Church Perpetuating Anti Singles Bias – ie, Single Women are Supposedly Sexual Temptresses, All Males Can’t Control Their Sex Drives – (but this view conflicts with evangelical propaganda that married sex is great and frequent)

(Link): Jason the Christian’s Sexless Marriage – Christians promise hot regular steamy married sex but it isn’t true

(Link): Marriage Doesn’t Necessarily Guarantee Great Sex or Any At All

(Link): Problems Created by Conservative Christian Teachings About Virginity, Sex, and Marriage: Christian Couple Who Were Virgins At Marriage Are Experiencing Sexual Problems – Re: UnVeiled Wife (Marriage does not guarantee great sex)

(Link): Getting Married Does Not Necessarily Guarantee Frequent Hot Satisfying Sexy Sex / (also discussed): Gender and Sex Stereotypes (article)

Sexualizing Modesty – Christians Defeating the Purpose

Sexualizing Modesty – Christians Defeating the Purpose

Before I get to the main heart of this post, here is a long introduction.

First of all, I think the modesty debate re-enforces one Christian and secular stereotype: that only men are visually oriented, and women are not. That is, women are thought to hate sex, or not be very interested in sex, and that women prefer “emotional bonding,” knitting tea cozies, and reading poetry, to sex.

The truth is, a lot of women (even Christian ones) are visually oriented and get “turned on” by looking at a good looking man (especially if he’s in great shape and shirtless).

These modesty teachings almost never, ever take into account that women have sex drives, sexual desires, and sexual preferences – and I get so tired of that aspect of it. These modesty teachings only take into account that MEN are sexual and have sex drives and so forth.

I am really not totally on either side of this modesty debate.

Concerning this issue, like several others I regularly discuss on this blog, I’m neither fully on Team (secular or Christian) Feminist, nor am I fully on Team Conservative (or Team Christian).

My views would probably hack off people on either side of the debate, both the anti-modesty types and the pro-modesty ones.

I think both sides make some really good points on some things, but both sides also get a few things wrong.

Where I might agree with the anti-modesty guys on “point X”, I might find that the pro-modesty guys are right about “point Z.”

Where I Agree with the Pro Modesty Side

As far as the pro-modesty side is concerned, I do agree that some teen-aged girls and women dress slutty, and this is not good, right, or cool.

I’m tired of secular feminists shaming pro-modesty types and trying to intimidate them into silence by screaming “slut shamer” at them, or about them, in every other tweet or blog post.

There are some women who do in fact want to use their looks, body, or sexuality to get attention. I saw these sorts of girls and women when I was a teen, in my 20s, and older. We’ve all known them.

They’re not satisfied wearing plain old blue jeans with a normal shirt, no.

They have to wear mini-skirts with fish net stockings and stiletto heels, or daisy duke shorts with their ass cheeks barely hanging out.

There may be a minority of women who dress that way because they genuinely find such fashions cute or flattering on their figure, but you damn well know the majority are wearing such ensembles to look “hot,” and at that, because they want male attention.

Personally, I find that look -the barely dressed, or stilettos with mini skirts types of sexy looks – rather trampy, and I think most women who dress like that are in fact seeking sexual attention from males – and no, I’m not fine with that.

I don’t have to agree with other women’s choices all the time in clothing or how they choose to attract men.

    Side Note:

    (Seriously, this is one odd-ball aspect I’ve seen crop up on secular feminist blogs frequently: by sheer fact that I am a woman, I am expected to always agree with other women and all their choices and political and moral views all. the. time, and to deny my own personal, political, or religious values and opinions in the process.

    Yes, just because I am a woman, and they are a woman. Me supporting all other women all the time on every topic under the sun (and it seems especially true in regards to sexuality, modesty, sex, abortion, and birth control) is considered obligatory, all because I’m a woman too.

    I don’t support all males all the time on every topic, so why would I be expected to support all women all the time, about everything? It makes no sense.)

Some women do in fact make a conscious choice to showcase their sexuality (e.g., by wearing tiny skirts and so forth) because their self esteem and self respect is so low, they don’t think they have anything else to offer a man, or they don’t think they have anything to offer the world but their looks, body, and sexuality.

Or, some women who dress in revealing clothing may assume 99% of men are indeed visually-oriented cave men, sexist swine, who only want “one thing” from women, and if these women are in the market to pick up a boyfriend, yes, they will don the fishnet stockings and mini-skirts.

There is a difference between Taylor Swift and Miley Cyrus. There is a difference between Madonna Ciccone and Whitney Houston.

Some women do in fact choose character, talent, and/or brains to make their place in the world, to gain success, or to get attention, while other women opt to go the sexual and titillation route (which may include dressing in a provocative manner).

And we (women) all know it. We know this is true. But a lot of the anti-modesty squad I see online seems to deny this.

Or, maybe they realize it, and their argument is they feel a Miley Cyrus should be able to act or dress like a harlot in public and nobody should make any negative judgments what-so-ever about it.

I’ve seen secular feminist blogs whose writers get upset with companies who objectify women by portraying women as sexy things in advertisements, or with companies who make too much out of a woman’s looks…

But these same feminists turn around, and quite inconsistently, feel it’s okay for a woman to objectify herself – and nobody is supposed to say anything critical about it (because that would be “slut shaming”).

But to me, that is a double standard.

Where I Agree With the Anti Modesty Side

Too often, as anti-modesty advocates point out, religious “modesty teachings” or modesty propaganda, tell girls and women they ought to dress in a conservative manner so as not to cause men to stumble.

The fact is that men are responsible for their behavior. It does not matter if a woman is fully clothed or wearing a thong bikini in the presence of a man, it is up to a man to control his thoughts and actions.

Continue reading “Sexualizing Modesty – Christians Defeating the Purpose”