Christians and Cheap Grace Concerning Sexual Sin

Christians and Cheap Grace Concerning Sexual Sin

(Link): Carlos Danger and Cheap Grace: No Road to Respectability

That editorial approaches sexual sin they way I think of it, if approaching it from a Christian context.

I’m a little tired of Christians who are so hyper sensitive to the feelings of fornicators or sexual abuse victims that they have started to teach that Christians should ignore or downplay the Bible’s teachings about virginity until marriage (which is a form of sexual purity – which I mention because a lunk head at another blog said the two are separate issues altogether).

(Disclaimer: consensual sexual sin and sexual abuse (and rape) are two separate categories. I do not hold victims of rape or sexual abuse responsible for having been violated; never the less, it is incorrect for anyone to want to neglect the Bible’s standards on sexuality, or to say such standards do not matter, all to spare the feelings of anyone who may have been either sexually abused or guilty of consensual sex.)

It’s all well and good to tell people God will forgive them of sexual sin (and again, I’m talking about consensual sexual acts), but the end result of all this hyper-leniency in regards to sexual sin is to pretty much abandon any expectation or defense of biblical standards of virginity and related matters. Which in turn is a big insult to Christians who have literally walked the walk and have not caved in to sexual temptation and who remain virgins into their 30s and older.

Excerpts from Carlos Danger and Cheap Grace: No Road to Respectability

      By Eric Metaxas, Christian Post Contributor


    August 2, 2013|10:01 am

As I record this, former congressman Anthony Weiner is staying in the race for mayor of New York. In case you forgot, he’s the one who resigned in 2011 after sexually suggestive tweets he sent to virtual strangers became public.
He’s staying in the race, despite reports of serial sexting under the nom de thumb “Carlos Danger.” He joins disgraced former governor Eliot Spitzer, who is running for comptroller, on the ballot.

It isn’t only New York: recently, South Carolina voters returned Mark Sanford, who ruined the phrase “hiking the Appalachian Trail” for the rest of us, to Congress.

These and other instances of politicians “falling from grace” and then being restored to a measure of respectability, are usually explained by the statement “Americans are a forgiving lot.”

As a Christian, I am all for forgiveness, as I’m sure you are. But what’s on display in these instances isn’t so much an example of forgiveness as it is of “cheap grace.”

That’s how David French put it at National Review. The expression “cheap grace” comes from Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s “Cost of Discipleship.” “Cheap grace,” Bonhoeffer wrote, “is the grace we bestow on ourselves [and] the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance.” Ultimately, it is “grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.”

As French pointed out, “the pattern is familiar and depressing: Public stumble, public apology, public rebirth-and then the next public stumble follows with depressing frequency.” Some politicians “opt out of scandal” by “marrying their mistresses and prancing in front of cameras with their latest adoring spouse,” but the end result is the same: a parody of forgiveness and grace that makes the real thing increasingly unrecognizable.
I agree with French that the allure of “cheap grace” is easy to understand. “We want to close the worst chapters of our lives as quickly as possible and just get on with living on the same trajectory as before, minus the embarrassment.”

But grace and true forgiveness are supposed to alter the trajectory of our lives, not preserve it. They are supposed to make us better as well as wiser.

(Link): Click here to read the rest
Related posts this blog.

(Link): Why So Much Fornication – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): No, Christians Do Not Idolize Virginity or Sexual Purity Nor Are They Prideful About It

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re Celibacy

(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link): When Adult Virginity and Adult Celibacy Are Viewed As Inconvenient or As Impediments

(Link): Preachers Who Use Strippers, Hula Girls, Topless Hunky Men, and Strip Poles During Church Services and Give Sex Diplomas to Teens – Yes, Really

‘Relevant’ Christian Magazine Ultimately Dismissive of Virginity – Also Maintain A Few Falsehoods

‘Relevant’ Christian Magazine Ultimately Dismissive of Virginity

This is reminiscient of Challies’ dismal editorial on virginity as well as Moore’s (see (Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies and (Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner) .

The author, Fileta, brings up the “pride” issue again, as did Moore in his anti- virginity hit piece.

My good lord, Christians tell you when you’re a teen to be a virgin until marriage, to assume God will send you a virgin, and so, when you arrive in your 30s (or older) and are still a virgin, you then get scolded for being upset that your partner is not a virgin as well.

Notice that someone (“Rachel”) pipes up in the comments to say, ‘what about those who have been sexually abused or raped.’ How I wish people would stop trying to muddy the issue: when talking about virginity and sexual purity, the topic under consideration is always consensual sex, not sexual abuse or rape.

This same online magazine has editorials on related issues; please see those links below this one with the excerpts:

(Link): “But He (or She) Isn’t a Virgin” Sexual history isn’t everything. Here’s how to pursue purity together as a couple.


    By Debra K Fileta
    January 11, 2012

    …Our sexual past is a symptom of who we were, and is not necessarily a reflection of who we are.

    … I have seen countless young people pass up potentially solid relationships because of the fact that they could not get over the idea of marrying a “non-virgin.” On the opposite spectrum, I have seen entire relationships founded on the basis of mutual sexual purity, when there were so many other major dysfunctions in the relationship that were overlooked and simply dimmed in comparison to the spotlight of “purity.” Our tendency to get hung up on the details can be devastating.

    Beyond the scope of sexual past, one must consider who a person is in their present. We serve a God of grace and mercy, a God who uproots us from our old selfish life and plants us into the soil of holiness and righteousness. For those who are in a true relationship with Jesus, sexual past can no longer be the defining point of their lives. They are now defined by their relationship with Jesus Christ…

    Purity is a condition of the heart, of the mind and of the spirit more than a simple category of one’s physical experiences.

    Our inability to forgive our partner’s sexual past (or our own) may be a sign of a heart issue that has nothing to do with sexuality. I once heard it said that someone who cannot forgive themselves for their past is not struggling with the sin of guilt, but with the sin of pride. Pride is the voice that tells us that what has been done is too great of a sin to be covered by God’s grace.

    If you find yourself stuck on your partner’s sexual past, you must ask yourself if you have really accepted and understood God’s grace in your own life. Like the story of the unforgiving servant who had an enormous debt wiped out, yet could not manage to forgive the debt of his own servant (Matthew 18). Though your past may look different than the past of your partner, God’s grace has covered you both. If you cannot learn to love your partner by covering them in grace, then purity of body has taken priority over purity of heart. If I remember correctly, Jesus always looks at the heart (John 8:1-11).

    Our sexual history will always affect us, though it doesn’t always have to haunt us. I don’t want to make it sound like those who have had a sexual past will be dismissed of all consequences, because that is simply untrue. Ask any Christ-centered married couple in which one or both partners have dabbled sexually outside of marriage and they will be able to point to the consequences of that behavior. We who have purposely and deliberately awakened our sexual desires to any extent before marriage will bring an additional component to matrimony that will undoubtedly be added to the list of “things to work through.” That said, anyone who enters into marriage brings their own list of things to work through, whether it be a sexual past, family problems, past sins, spending habits, communication deficits and on and on and on … Who of us is perfect when it comes to purity of the mind, body and soul?

    [click the link at top if you wish to read the entire thing]

    Debra K. Fileta is a Licensed Professional Counselor specializing in Relationship and Marital issues. She, her husband and two children live in Hershey, PA. She is the author of the new book True Love Dates (Zondervan, 2013)

–Also From Relevant Magazine–

(Link): Second Chance Virginity
-what have I (Link): said before about Christians employing these feel good euphemisms for fornicators?

(Link): Virginity Is Not The Point

(Link): The Secret Sexual Revolution A recent study reveals most single Christians are having sex. We undress why.

Excerpt that page:

    Abstinence messages have often been geared toward teenagers, but as the average marrying age creeps closer to 30, the time period when Christians are called to be chaste can easily extend a decade beyond their high school graduation—or much longer. So what does abstinence look like as Christians “grow up” and enter the real world but are still single?

    “Itʼs absolutely not realistic,” McKnight continues. “But itʼs also not realistic not to do a lot of things, and that doesnʼt mean the Bible doesnʼt tell us the ideal and design of God is to not have premarital sex.”

    …McKnight also wonders if part of the problem is a devaluing of marriage. If young Christians no longer deem marriage a worthwhile endeavor…

Notice the false assumption there that if only we get ’em married young, this fornication problem will go away. See (Link): A Case Against Early Marriage by A. Moore (editorial)

By the way, the problem (in churches) is not that marriage is devalued but the complete opposite: it’s turned into an idol, and any unmarried seeking it for himself is, hypocritically, told to stop immediately, for he is “making marriage into an idol, so be content in your singleness.”

(Link): Unmarried and Not A Virgin Now What?

Excerpt that page:

    If you’ve followed RELEVANT articles in the past few months, you’ve noticed that a huge amount of unmarried, born-again, Christian young men and women are having a really hard time saying “no.” In fact, if you’re reading this article … there’s an 80 percent chance you are one of them.

    We were never intended to say no to sex, because it is one of God’s most precious and valuable gifts to us as human beings.

What the hell is up with this: ‘we were never intended to say no to sex?’ The Bible says oh yes we are. See: (Link): Why So Much Fornication (sex outside of marriage) – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity
Here is Relevant Magazine’s section on Singles:

(Link): Singles tag category, Relevant Magazine

Just glancing at the headlines under that section, this one made me cringe, as it is a CLICHE’ I hear from married people all the time; as someone who was engaged to be married for several years, I already know that a serious romantic relationship is not a cure-all:

“Marriage Doesn’t Solve Your Problems”

Some of you may find this helpful (but read disclaimer below):
(Link): Five Things About Dating I Wish I Had Known

-its author corrects a few of the more idiotic Christian dating tips most of us have been subjected to in the past..
Except for the bit where she talks about how your friendsships should, must, or will change with your opposite gender friends once you marry – which I think is a crock, because it feeds back into the stereotype that marrieds cannot be friends with a single, lest a raging affair start, because un-marrieds are unprincipled horn dogs who are just dying to have sex with married people.
Related posts, this blog:

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

(Link): Why So Much Fornication (sex outside of marriage) – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

Married Woman Has Affair With Married Man While Her Own Husband Deals With Cancer Stricken Parents

Married Woman Has Affair With Married Man While Her Own Husband Deals With Cancer Stricken Parents

From our continuing series,
“Gee, while there are times I’d like to be married, stories like this make me go, ‘Thank Lawd I am still single'”

And, let this put yet another nail in the coffin on the incredibly noxious stereotype that only single women prey on married men; this letter is another example I’ve seen of a MARRIED person instigating an affair and with another MARRIED person.

Later on in this letter, the husband who wrote in said she started a SECOND affair with ANOTHER MARRIED MAN.

I am a never-married woman; I am single, yet culture, and Christians too, assumes I am a harlot who jumps into bed with married men, by sheer fact of being single. Number of men I’ve had sex with in my life, married or single remains ZERO.

I am more trustworthy around married men than married women.

Here’s the link and the letter:

(Link): My narcissistic wife is ruining my life She has affairs without remorse. If we divorce, she wants all my money plus our three kids

    Dear Cary,

    About three years ago my father was diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer. I drove three hours back and forth to my hometown every week or so to see him and spend a few days helping him and my mom. I was focused on helping my parents cope and everything else seemed somewhat pointless to me.

    I was depressed. While my attention was distracted by my father’s illness and subsequent death, my wife began an affair with a married man in town. I was grieving and oblivious.

    As their relationship progressed, the happy couple wanted to spend more time with each other (and in public) so they surreptitiously pushed their respective families together so that we all could be friends.

    I should have seen it a mile away but my mind was elsewhere. I had just met these people and suddenly my wife, kids and I were vacationing with them.

    The affair went on for a year before I became suspicious. I never suspected him but I knew something wasn’t right. I watched her cry at our 13th wedding anniversary dinner. It looked like she was crying over a breakup.

    She was.

    His wife had just found out but the three of them were not telling me. I went through the phone bills and quickly confirmed my suspicions. I confronted her, she admitted it and I was crushed.

    We went to counseling, yet she refused to admit that what she had done was in any way wrong. In fact, she said that until she got caught it was the best year of her life, having a happy home life and a secret lover.

    Nonetheless, I started trying to put the pieces back together for the sake of our three children. But I was still suspicious.

    She left her computer on at home one day and when I peeked at her email I found that she was planning a rendezvous with another married man (out of town) with whom she had had another affair several years earlier.

    We went back to therapy and the therapist advised that she “come clean” about all of her affairs.

    The number quickly shot to seven including one-night stands with my daughter’s gymnastics coach, an old college boyfriend and a threesome (two guys and her).

    Needless to say, I now can’t get the images of all of these guys out of my head and it has significantly impacted my ability to perform in bed.

    We also argue a lot now. When she argues she says the most horrific things.

    She recently told me that I am the worst lover she has ever had.

    She had all of three before we were married and in the first 10 years of her marriage she used to tell me that the main thing we had in common was great sex.

    I guess that changed when she started getting some strange.

    She still makes no apologies for her cheating.

    She has this bizarre sense of entitlement and feels that no one man could ever fulfill her completely so she should be able to get what she needs emotionally and physically from multiple people.

    She has said, “Wedding vows are a joke because pretty much everyone cheats anyway,” and I am “naive and a prude” and the only one of my friends who doesn’t cheat on his wife and that’s because I am “sexually repressed” whereas she is “fabulous” and “great in bed” and everywhere she goes she can instantly tell how many men want to sleep with her.

    She is quite beautiful, I will give her that. She’s also a narcissist.

    Recently I was on the road for business and couldn’t get in touch with her.

    I subsequently learned that while our kids were in school she had traveled out of town to have lunch with someone. I don’t know who, but I soon found out that this lunch was preceded by dozens of hour-long phone conversations to and from a private number.

    She will not come clean about it, only saying that she is allowed to have “friends” and that there was “no sex.” She claims that she’s done with the “cheating phase” of her life but should be allowed to have male friends.

    The more I type the more sickened I am that I am still in this relationship but I have three wonderful children and I want to continue to live with them and guide them into adulthood.

    I have no desire for them to end up living with some random guy that wants to be called “Dad” and has his own views of parenting.

    After a few too many glasses of wine a few weeks ago, she matter-of-factly stated that if we divorce she will sue to be the custodial parent (which she will get because she’s a stay-at-home mom), that I will have to “pay up big” and if I “try to hide any future income” that she is owed, she will get the best lawyers to find it and get me “thrown in jail” until I pay her every nickel.

    I apparently deserve all that because she gave birth to our three children.

    She has a college degree from a big-name university but hasn’t worked since our first child was born.

    Do I really live in a country in which I have to stay married to a woman who has remorselessly admitted to cheating rampantly (no-fault divorce!) or be resigned to seeing my children every other weekend and writing her checks for half my net worth upfront and up to a third of my gross income for the rest of my life?

    And don’t tell me that at least the alimony part will end when she remarries.

    What woman who says she can’t get what she needs from only one man would ever remarry?

    [signed] Screwed for the Rest of My Life

His wife sounds like a total bitch.

And for any men out there reading this thinking,
“OMG, does this mean I can never trust a woman??? I’m tired of being single and thought I would like to marry, but after seeing that, should I just stay single forever????”

The answer is No. If I ever get married (I’m a lady), I sure as hell would not cheat on my husband with another guy, and sure as hell not with ten or more guys, like this woman did.

Not all women are cheaters, gold diggers, or narcissists.

The woman described in that letter is a disgrace to my gender, and my mind boggles she can’t be grateful for the husband she already has, when there are women out there such as me who would like to be married but can’t find anyone.

But then, seeing horror stories like this also do make you feel relief you’re not in a relationship.

Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

With virginity and celibacy under regular attack from much of Non Christian culture, such as with recent books such as ‘The Purity Myth,’ by Jessica Valenti (I assume she is a Non Christian, though I may be wrong; but certainly, and by one method of several, by using most Hollywood movies as a barometer to judge Non Christian feelings about the topics, as most films do not depict flattering portrayals of virgins or virginity, so I take it the average Non Christian may think virginity is strange or bad), one would expect Christians would want to jump to defend the concepts, but, in the last few years, they’ve been among the very first in line to say, and to cave in and join the Non Christian anti-virginity chorus saying, such teachings are “dangerous” to women, while some say they are “hurtful.”

While I agree with Valenti’s presmise that culture (and this would include Christian culture) can or does twist virginity to such a degree that women are judged only in terms of their sexuality, and this is not good, I do not agree with others (I’m not sure of Valenti’s position specifically) that teachings about sexual purity should be abandoned altogether – if one chooses to be a Bible-believing Christian, I should say.

I myself am on the verge of becoming agnostic after years of having been a conservative Christian. Despite this, I tend to view these debates about sex, modesty teachings, celibacy and virginity through a biblical lens, especially if a Christian is discussing these topics, or if the arguments apparently conflict with the Bible. (At other times, I do waffle and view them from an agnostic position.)

If one is going to be a Christian, I see no room for disputing that the Bible says that women -and men- are called to remain virgins until marriage.

If you are a Christian who is having sex outside of marriage, that is your choice, but do not try to defend that choice -and I have, yes, seen self- professing Christians use all the following rationaliztions – by saying things such as: the Bible supports fornication;
or the Bible is too vague for us to know for sure what God thinks about pre-marital sex, so let us overlook it; or,
other Christians (these are usually liberals or emergents) insist that that the biblical teachings about sexual purity should be ignored because they sometimes hurt the feelings of fornicators, rape victims, or child sexual abuse victims.

It should go without saying that of course rape victims and child sexual abuse victims are not to blame for having been violated.

That sexual abuse victims unfortunately feel uncomfortable by virginity teachings or sexual purity teachings is less evidence that such teachings are erroneous or cruel in and of themselves, and perhaps more of an indicator that the conveyors of such teachings, such as church youth pastors, may be framing the discussions in an unnecessarily hurtful or condescending manner (by comparing fornicators to used chewing gum, for instance, which yes, I grant, may be insulting).

However, that some Christian youth speakers or pulpit-pounding, legalistic preachers tend to convey sex sermons and teachings in an unloving manner does not change the fact that the Bible supports virginity- until- marriage, celibacy, and chastity.

There are some Christians, who dispute the use of the terms “fornication” and “fornicator” when discussing sexual topics, as they feel it is insulting to people who have in the past fornicated, or who currently fornicate. I use these terms only for breveity’s sake. They are not intended by me to be derogatory.

It’s a hell of a lot easier to type out the word “fornicator,” than the long, meandering description, “one who has sex outside of / before marriage.”

Strangely, nobody, not even most Christians who dispute the use of the word “fornicate,” seem to mind the weird, and not- mentioned- in- the- Bible, trend lately where Christian fornicators get to call themselves “born again virgins,” “spiritual virgins,” or “secondary virgins,” if only they promise in public to have repented of their sexual shenanigans. Why the double standards on terminlogy?

Christians are calling for other Christians, including those who have actually remained virgins into their adulthood, to tip toe around the sensitive feelings of those who have fornicated, yet those pushing this insane agenda do not care at all that their downgrading of the importance of virginity and celibacy is not only insulting and hurtful to actual virgins, but that it removes any remaining impetus for us to remain chaste any longer.

And I note a tad of hypocrisy on display: many of the Christians asking adult virgin Christians to be more tolerant and understanding of rampant sexual sin and who implore adult virgins not to take virginity so seriously, sometimes end their blog postings with the end notes reading thusly: “author John. W. Smith; married 20 years, father of three,” or, “Mary Jones, phD in literature, married eight years, mother of two.” They are not virgins themselves but feel fine lecturing virgins.

Here I have carried out the “be a virgin because you’re not married” biblical mandate, and I’m over the age of 40, yet these buffoons, these Christian bloggers who are getting their sexual and companionship needs consistently satisfied, are presuming to dress me, or those like me, down? I don’t think so.

Separate from your spouse for the next twenty five years, live alone, give up all sex and contact, then, and only then, write a blog post about all this, please… and then let’s see what your position is on the topic. I have a sneaking suspicion your views will have shifted at least a tad.

Christians, even preachers and Christian professional authors and bloggers, are now showing far more concern over the feelings and considerations of sexual sinners, helping them getting their needs met, and offering them encouragement and a sense of community, than they are in helping or supporting adult Christians who are sexually abstaining, and who are actually following the Bible’s teachings on sexual mores. This is a disgusting double standard and very upside down.

To add further insult to injury, and diminish virginity even more, adult virgins such as myself, or author Julia Duin, who point out the hypocrisy, the lack of support for the truly celibate single, and the sexual failings of the Christian culture, are chided, insulted, and reprimanded by preachers and professional Christian authors in their blogs, magazines, and editorials over this.

I never thought I would see the day, but this kind of attack on virginity – and by Christians – is becoming a horrifying, regular occurence in American Christendom.

Adult Christian virgins get scolded and chided – by (married authors- that is, ‘having sex occasionally authors,’ I should add again) Christians, no less, and it’s mind boggling – for defending the very biblical standard of ‘virginity- unti- marriage,’ to be told that we are not loving, we are prideful, and we also get these nauseating, non-sensical, sappy, maudlin comments, courtesy Christian Tim Challies, such as, “we are all virgins now.” (More on that farther below.)

Per the last point on the list: not all guilt is a bad thing, according to the Bible. Christians are supposed to feel convicted for any sin they commit, which usually translates as feelings of guilt. There is such a thing as “false” guilt, to be sure – but in so far that the Bible teaches that pre-marital sex is wrong, if you do not feel the least bit guilty for having engaged in that particular sin, and yet you claim to be a Christian, there might be something wrong with your conversion experience, or your fidelty to Biblical teachings.

This is not to say that anyone guilty of any sin should spend years wallowing in hatred of self or in self-unforgiveness, but the attitude I pick up in contemporary Christian views about sexual sin on blogs and in some books is to dismiss it out of hand, especially because teachings of sexual purity makes people feel ashamed or guilty, which is not, in my view, biblical.

Turning attention to Challies’ anti- virginity post. Notice like in Moore’s anti-virginity posting, Challies also offers the obligatory “I support celibacy and virginity” commentary, but then spends the rest of the discussion nullifying those sentiments. Here are excerpts (his editorial is hosted on his own blog, and at Christian Post):

(Link 1): We Are All Virgins Now, by Tim Challies (on Challies’ Blog)

(Link 2): We Are All Virgins Now, by Tim Challies (on CP)

These are excperts. If you wish to read the Challies post in its entirety, please click one of the links above.

[by Tim Challies]

  • We Evangelicals are known for our obsession with virginity. Now don’t get me wrong—I affirm that it is good and God-honoring to remain sexually pure before marriage (and within marriage and after marriage). As a pastor I want to teach the people in my care the value of having their first sexual experiences with their spouse in the marriage bed and not with a prom date in the back of a car. I want my children to value sexual purity and to understand that lust is not love, that love expresses itself in self-control. Virginity matters because sexual purity matters because God says it matters. But it is not the highest of virtues. It is not the measure of a godly young man or young woman. It is not the goal and the measure of Christian living.
  • This Evangelical obsession with virginity manifests itself in youth conferences where a flower is passed around a room, going from hand to hand, until the speaker can hold it up, all bent and twisted, and ask with a knowing grin, “Who would want a rose like this?” The teens look and say, “I would never want a rose like that.” But then there are the few who silently look away and weep because they are that rose. They learn they have been spoiled, that their beauty has been given away. (As Matt Chandler reminds us, Jesus wants the rose!)
  • … It is painful to those who were raised in ignorance of what God commands, who simply acted the way unbelievers will act as they committed sexual sin. 
  • … It is particularly painful to those whose virginity was taken from them, who were unwilling participants in abuse or rape. They may feel spoiled
  • This whole obsession with virginity misses one New Testament key, the gospel key…
  • …Paul tells us that in God’s eyes we are all holy. Through Christ we are all redeemed, all forgiven, all made new, all unspoiled. In Christ we are all virgins.

Here I will address a few of Challies’ specific comments (I have dealt with some of his other points in other posts at my blog, and I do not wish to rehash them all here and now; please see my previous posts); Challies wrote:

  • This obsession with virginity….

The only Christians “obsessing” about virginity the past few years, are youth preachers at youth rallies, and those Christians who are not virgins: the fornicators themselves and the married (who are presumably having sex regularly with their spouses). They are the ones writing these types of editorials besmirching virgins and virginity, or seeking to have both diminished.

I’ve yet to see an adult Christian virgin past the age of 35 write one of these attacks on celibacy and virginity, or asking for untold amounts of lovey, sugary, sprinkles sprinkled with an extra dash of understanding atop the sexual sin ice cream cone.

Challies wrote,

  • Not only that, but this obsession causes such pain. Elevating virginity to the first place among the virtues…

And knocking virginity down the totem pole a few notches to soothe the hurt feelings of sexual sinners is the approach you think the Christian community should take? Keep robbing older virgins of a reason to stay pure, by all means.

Challies wrote,

  • It is painful to those who were raised in ignorance of what God commands, who simply acted the way unbelievers will act as they committed sexual sin. …

As I have discussed before on my blog (please use the drop down menu and look for the tag “married people sexual sin”to find examples), I have seen countless testimonies in Christian magazines, blogs, and television programs of married Christian people who say they were committed Christians and that they knew adultery and pornography was wrong, but who engage in both types of sexual sin anyway.

I have also blogged about Christians who say that while single, they knew that fornication was a sin, yet who say they fornicated anyway, and some went so far as to also work in strip clubs, work for X- rated movie productions, and work as prostitutes. Not all Christians who sexually sin are acting out of “ignorance.” Please do not insult my intelligence on this point.

Given the immense amount of sexual purity lectures Christian young people get from Christian sources while they are teens and early 20- something, it is inconceivable to me how anyone in this day and age can grow up as a Christian, hit their mid twenties or older, and not realize that the Bible instructs a person to save sexual activity for marriage.

The young ‘uns get bombarded with sexual purity lectures from the church as kids (at least this was true of many evangelical and Baptist churches in the 1980s and 1990s – as of the last few years, it has become unfashionable for seeker friendly and other types of churches to actually confront sexual sin). When you remain a Christian virgin into your late 20s and older, the church drops the topic of celibacy, virginity, and sexual purity.

There are no support groups, no regularly issued literature (such as magazines) for adult Christian virgins past the age of 25. That Challies can claim that most, or all, of the Christians fornicating ‘out of ignorance’ is laughable and implausible. Christian teens hear about sexual purity quite often; the only sex talk adults get from the church is: “Remember, married women, husbands like sex, so perform sexually all the time!”

Challies wrote,

  • God does not look upon his people as non-virgins and virgins, spoiled and unspoiled, defiled and undefiled. He does not see two classes of people: those who have waited to experience sex within marriage and those have not…. In Christ we are all virgins.

Aw, that sounds so sweet, but it makes my former choice to remain a virgin until marriage very moot. I tell you what, as soon as I get a boyfriend after I move the next year or two, and we start having pre-marital sex, I’ll just go back and re-read those last lines.

Apparently, the phrases and words, “non-virgins,” “virgins,” “defiled,” and “undefiled” and so on, have no meaning. God does not differentiate on those terms, neither should we. I was brought up that every single last word of the Bible, in so far as it has been accurately translated, of course, was there for a reason, that the Holy Spirit put great thought for each and every word and verse, and it’s there for a reason. Now Challies is saying not so.

It’s all fine and dandy to remind sexual sinners that God is loving and forgiving, but really, do Christians have to do so at the expense of running virginity, and actual virgins, down in the process?

I guess if you want to be one of the popular cool kids like the emergents, the popular thing to do these days is bad mouth virginity.

A visitor to Challies’ blog thinks Christians should use the term or concept “recovered virginity.”

Why do Christians keep inventing these bogus terms to re-state or sugar coat the term “sexual sin” or “sexual sinner?” Your good, old- fashioned virgin bristles at mis-use of the term “virgin” to ease guilty consciences of sexual sinners. If you have sexually sinned, God will forgive you, but you are in no way, shape, or form a “virgin,” not even in a spiritual-allegorical sense, I am oh- so- sorry to say.

It is editorials like this one about virginity by Challies (and the previous one by Moore), among other reasons I have, that has been driving me away from the Christian faith and into the arms of agnosticism. The things I was taught to believe from childhood onwards about God, the Bible, Jesus, sex, and marriage are all dismissed by Christians today as though they mean nothing, or as though those beliefs were wrong the whole time.

Congratulations, Challies, for being yet another step in the staircase leading me farther away from God and away from any previously held notions about reserving sex for marriage.

Doesn’t the Bible say that teachers will be held more accountable by God than regular joe’s like me, due to the fact that some of their teachings would cause some to stray or fall away?
Related posts, this blog:

(Link):  Christians Want to Hold Adulterers Accountable but Give Adult Single Fornicators a Pass

(Link): Conservatives Have Now Abandoned All Pretense of Advocating For Sexual Abstinence and They Actually Lament the Lack of Fornication – The Bradford Wilcox Piece, 2019

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link): Stacie Tchividjian Attempting to Turn Repeated Sexual Sin Into a Virtue of Sorts

(Link):  Tim Challies, Who Is Fine With Single Adults Fornicating, Is Not Okay With Fake Sex on TV, As Portrayed by Married Actors

(Link): Anti-Porn Activist: ‘Ethically Sourced’ Porn ‘Sounds Like an Oxymoron’

(Link): Anti Virginity Christian Blogger Tim Challies Now Writes: ’31 Days of Purity: My Identity’ – What?

(Link):  An Example of Mocking Adult Virginity Via Twitter (Virginity Used As Insult)

(Link): Stop Rewarding People For Their Failure – Christians Speaking Out of Both Sides of Their Mouths About Sexual Sin – Choices and Actions and How You Teach This Stuff Has Consequences

(Link):  CDC Report: Virgin Teens Much Healthier Than Their Sexually Active Peers (2016 Report)

(Link): A Day In The Life Of An Abstinence Ed Teacher by S. Gomez

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity (they attack both concepts)

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Married Christian Couples and Sexual Sin, More Examples – and Women and Porn

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): Editorialist at WaPo Argues That Single Christian Adults Can Have Sex So Long As They are Chaste About It – Also Speculates that Jesus Was “Probably” Celibate

(Link): Dude Arguing for Legalization of Prostitution Uses Same Rationale as Christians Concerning Celibacy and Sexual Purity

(Link): Married (Christian) People Aren’t More Virtuous Than Christian Singles

(Link): How Christian Teachings on Marriage/ Singleness/ Gender Roles/ Dating Are Keeping Christian Singles Single

(Link): Married Women Engage in Sexual Sin – and most men in denial particularly Christian conservatives

(Link): Article: Our Born-Again Virgin Bachelor – Secondary or Spiritual Virginity

(Link): The ol’ Christian myth that married couples are impervious to sexual sin but singles have lots of sexual sin

(Link): Gotta Maintain that Propaganda that Married Christian Sex is “Mind Blowing”

(Link): Book Review at CP: Sex, Dating, and Relationships: The Dating Friendships Alternative

(Link): Critique of Christianity Today Article: The Real Value of Sex

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): Criticism of Purity Teachings by Christians via a Woman’s Personal Testimony

(Link): Christian Teachings on Relationships: One Reason Singles Are Remaining Single (even if they want to get married)

(Link): Anti Virginity Moore Opines on Dirty Web Sites * Irony Alert *

(Link): New Study Released: Cheaters: More American Married Women Admit to Adultery (links)

(Link): CDC Reports Rare Lesbian HIV Transmission Case

(Link): Slut Shaming and Virgin Shaming and Secular and Christian Culture – Dirty Water / Used Chewing Gum and the CDC’s Warnings – I guess the CDC is a bunch of slut shamers ?

Anti Virginity Moore Opines on Dirty Web Sites * Irony Alert *

Anti Virginity Moore Opines on Dirty Web Sites

Editorial hosted on two sites:

(Link 1): AROUSING OURSELVES TO DEATH Porn Is Ravaging Our Churches by Russell D Moore

A copy is here:
(Link 2): What’s At Stake With Internet Pornography, by Russell D Moore

The timing of this Moore editorial appearing today is pretty funny, considering I just did this post about two or three days ago:

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

I’m trying to reconcile how a guy (Moore) who makes light of virginity and sexual purity can write an editorial making a big to-do out of people who have web porn addictions. (He depicts the typical porn addict as male, when, as I’ve cited in previous posts, it’s on the rise among women.)

Before I provide you with excerpts from Moore’s anti web porn editorial (you will have to use the links above if you wish to read the entire editorial), I wanted to quote from this page about a Christian demonologist.

You may ask yourself, “What does demonology have to do with internet pornography?”

Not a lot, I guess, but that’s not my point.

A Christian can sit there and be, let’s say, 90% biblical on their view points, and insist they are totally biblical in their views on Topic X, but when you look at their views on 10% of other stuff, their 10% nullifies the 90%, or their screwy 10% cancels out their claim to be biblical on Topic X.

Here’s an example:

    Some of what Larson [the demonologist] has to say about demonology is biblically based and has likely been of help to those searching for sound teaching on the subject. For this he is to be commended.

    For example, Larson teaches that demons are fallen angels,18 possessed of all the attributes of personal beings, including will, emotion, and intellect.19

    As fallen angels, Larson correctly notes, “demons are noncorporeal spirits,”20 that is, they are immaterial creatures with no extension in space,21 possessing no mass.22

    To his credit, Larson explodes the myth that Satan is the infinite, omnipotent, and omnipresent counterpart of God. In no uncertain terms, Larson affirms that Satan is finite,23 unable to forcibly coerce individuals to sin against their will,24 and limited to operating in one place at one time.25

    While these teachings are certainly biblical, Larson nullifies them when he recounts his personal experiences with alleged demons. This penchant for inconsistency is evident throughout Larson’s teaching, and it is common for him to espouse both sound and sensationalistic statements on the same topic.

    For instance, while Larson rightly asserts that demons are noncorporeal beings, he also teaches they manifest themselves physically.26

    According to Larson, most of these occurrences border on nuisance, such as when demons have crank-called those to whom Bob was ministering deliverance;27 yet Larson believes some crafty demons have gone so far as to duplicate his own physical appearance, masquerading as Larson himself in order to obstruct genuine exorcisms.28

    Source: (Link): An Examination of the Teachings of Bob Larson

Here is my point. As Bob Larson is to spiritual warfare/ demonology, Russell D. Moore is to virginity/sexual purity and sexual sin.

It’s fine to say on the one hand that fornication is condemned in the Bible, but to also chastise a Christian virgin for being upset her sweetie pie may not also be one, shows a level of disdain or disrespect for the biblical standard of sexual purity.

You cannot be all that terribly committed to sexual purity if you scold a virginal woman for being upset her honey pie may not also be a virgin when they marry.

You can say you support virginity until the cows come home, but I’m not going to be completely convinced when you then turn around the next moment and tell a virgin who is disappointed her boyfriend is not one that she is idolizing virginity, or is “being prideful,” or should just let it go (if he “repented”), because “we’re all sinners.”

Here are selected quotes from the Moore anti porn editorial – it is also troubling that he reads too much into the “married couples and married sex is an analogy to the church’s relationship to God” view:

    Porn Is Ravaging Our Churches
    by Russell D Moore

    …Beyond that is an even greater mystery still. The Apostle Paul tells us that human sexuality is not arbitrary, nor is it merely natural.

    It is, he reveals, itself an icon of God’s ultimate purpose in the gospel.

    The one-flesh union is a sign of the union between Christ and his Church (Eph. 5:22–33). If human sexuality is patterned after the very Alpha and Omega of the cosmos, no wonder it is so difficult to restrain. No wonder it seems so wild.

    …We agree with those-often even secular feminists with whom we disagree on much-who say that a pornographic culture hurts women and children through the objectification of women, the trafficking of children, and the commodification of sex.

    ..Sham Repentance

    This means that our churches cannot simply rely on accountability groups and blocking software to combat this scourge. We must see this as darkly spiritual and, first and foremost, reclaim a Christian vision of human sexuality.

    ..But it [sex] is also intended to bring about new life. An incarnational picture of sexuality, rooted in the mystery of the gospel, is the furthest thing possible from the utilitarian ugliness of pornography.

    …Moreover, we must call for repentance in our own churches, and this will be more difficult than it sounds. Pornography brings with it a kind of sham repentance.

    … Typically, for those who identify as Christians, a pornographic episode is followed by a resolve “never to do it again.” Often these (again, typically) men promise to seek out some sort of accountability and leave it behind.

    But often this resolve is less about a convicted conscience than about a sated appetite.

    …Without genuine repentance, the cycle of temptation will grind on.

    Genuine Repentance

    Our churches must show what genuine repentance looks like.

    For some especially vulnerable members of our churches, this will mean giving up the use of home computers or of Internet technology altogether.

    … We must also empower women in our congregations to grapple as Christians with husbands enslaved to pornography. We believe, and have taught emphatically, that wives should submit to their husbands (Eph. 5:23). But, in Scripture and in Christian teaching, all submission (except to the Lord directly) has limits.

    The husband’s body, the Bible says, belongs to his wife (1 Cor. 7:4). She need not subject herself to being the physical outlet for her husband’s pornographically supplied fantasies.

I agreed with a few points he made, but not all.

I would like to remind anyone reading this: this editorial is yet another example that Christian married people are sexual sinners.

Churches usually regard singles as sexual sinners, but married people look at pornography and engage in other types of sexual sin.

Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Note: the specific mentions of Moore and Kushiner and how both are attacking the Bible’s teachings on virginity / sexual purity come farther down in this opinion piece, after my introduction)

Jan 1 2015 update (Nov 2017 update way below):

I just noticed today that Moore has blocked me from his Twitter account, which I never followed to start with (the notice on his page says I cannot follow his Twitter feed, which I never did. I don’t know when he blocked me, but it was sometime over 2014).

I only tweeted at him a handful of times over 2014, with links to this blog page you are reading. And he blocked me over THAT?


Edit: See the update after you read this post: (Link): Anti Virginity Moore Opines on Dirty Web Sites * Irony Alert *

And related:

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link): Southern Baptists (who don’t TRULY support sexual purity) Announce 2014 Sex Summit


I am still amazed by emergents, liberal Christians, and even a strain of conservative Christians, who feel as though Christendom has made an “idol of virginity,” when I see so many self-professing Christians these days mocking or questioning the very concepts of virginity, celibacy, and sexual purity, concepts which are taught in the Bible.

Oh sure, I hear the occasional sermon on marriage where the preacher tosses out the obligatory “sex is for marriage only” sentiment (just today, TV preacher Jack Graham delivered such commentary in his broadcast sermon on marriage).

However, in practice and in reality, many Christians do not believe in virginity, celibacy, or sexual purity, and many of them do not practice it.

See: (Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity By extension, most Christians do not support Christian singles, who are told in the Bible to practice celibacy. Most Christians today, their churches and organizations, are too busy worshipping marriage and the traditional, nuclear family and lamenting the decay of “traditional marriage.”

Singles get overlooked in all the marriage and family worship, or all the hand-wringing over the fall of the nuclear family. Churches and the Christian community as a whole do not support Christians who are never- married, past the age of 30, and who are still virgins.

I became a Christian before reaching the age of ten (lately, though, I have considered leaving the faith, over the sex and singles issue, among other reasons). From a young age, I took Christianity and its teachings on sexual purity to heart.

I made a choice at very young age that I would wait until marriage to have sex. When you are below age 25, the church will applaud you for being a virgin.

Once you get to to your late 20s or into your 30s, the support you see in this area disappears. It dries up. (You will actually be attacked by Christians for being single and a virgin into your 30s and beyond.)

Other than Christianity, I did have one or two other reasons why I was determined to remain chaste (which I will not get into here).

My decision to remain chaste in adolescence coincides with the repeated sermonizing I heard in the 1980s and part of the 1990s of preachers ranting and raving against the sexual immorality of the day, and how a Christian should remain sexually pure. I also read the Bible as a teen, and I could not help but notice all the passages saying sex was for marriage only. I also heard or read works by authors such as Christian apologist Josh McDowell about how sex was for marriage only.

Works such as these, and sermons I heard, were one reason of several, I did not have sex.

Much of Christian dating, sex, and marriage articles and books I read as a teenager, and many of the sermons I heard on those topics, either stated out right, or implied very strongly, that if a Christian female remains sexually pure, seeks after God, stays skinny and pretty, prays to God, and has faith in God for a spouse, that God will send that young woman a “Christian Mr. Right” by the time she reaches mid or late 20s. I did all of those things and still find myself single in my early 40s.

I have seen other never-married Christian ladies in their 30s, 40s, and 50s give the same witness on other blogs: they too were sold a false bill of goods.

They were told by preachers, Christian relationship books and so forth, that if they trusted God for a spouse and did not have sex, that God would grant them, or reward them, with a spouse, and that the spouse would likely also be another Christian virgin.

However, in the last few years, I’ve seen Christians on TV shows, radio shows, and on blogs, declaring that all of us are sexual sinners (i.e. fornicators, who have literally had sexual intercourse).

Or, there is this understanding among some Christians that all people have had sex outside of marriage (or else are porn addicts), so, their philosophy is to present an “Easy Forgivism Sex Gospel” to soothe any guilt or shame feelings sexual sinners may have.

I find these constant appeals of “let sexual sinners off the hook and be all forgive-y to them, because all of us have sexual sin” confusing and discouraging, because I am in my early 40s and have not had sexual intercourse. It is simply not true that “all of us are fornicators.”

These easy forgivism attitudes towards sexual sin amounts to telling Christians they should not judge people’s sexual pasts, or hold their sexual pasts against them, nor should they adhere to biblical sexual standards, or expect others to live by them. Christians are further given the message – by other Christians – that they should not make an idol of virginity, and if you yourself have fornicated (had sex outside of marriage), to forgive yourself and move on.

The thinking is that nobody but nobody can hold out and resist sexual urges into their twenties and beyond, that we’re all guilty of fornicating, or habitually visiting X-rated sites.

Even though all of us are not guilty of these things – it is wrongly assumed all of us are, though.

The liberals and emergents think that Christians should cease with the virginity teachings and sexual purity teachings because some women, who chose to have sex as teens or as college students, feel guilty, ashamed, or dirty when they hear in sermons or Christian programs that sex outside of marriage is a sin.

Then your sexual abuse victims, who were fondled at age six by their Uncle Harry, say these sexual purity teachings hurt their feelings.

According to this “sensitive, delicate flower doctrinal” view point, Christians are to allow their emotions to dictate and influence which doctrines and morals Christians should accept, teach, and practice, and specifically, shame and guilt emotions should regulate how, when, or if biblical standards of sexual behavior are discussed, taught, or maintained.

Christian author and journalist Julia Duin is among one of the few who I’ve seen speak out or about the devaluing of sexual purity teachings and the mistreatment of Christian virgins.

Here is one post where Duin discussed the issue, and where she was rightfully critical of Russell D. Moore’s easy dismissal of virginity:

(Link): Where are America’s virgins? Discouraging the virtuous, by Julia Duin Here is an excerpt, the part where she mentions Moore:

    This past spring in Touchstone, a conservative Christian publication, Russell Moore, a Southern Baptist minister who is dean of Southern Seminary’s School of Theology in Louisville, penned “Like, A Virgin?” His essay criticized a chaste female who wanted her husband to be a virgin like she is. He hinted she was being unrealistic and judgmental for judging a potential mate on his sexual history rather than his Christian commitment. This hapless woman resisted the spirit of the age and yet, her Christian leader denigrated her values. So much for seeking out a pastor’s advice.

–end excerpt–

If I’m not mistaken, Duin was responding to this column by Moore (or one similar to it):

(Link): How Much Do I Need to Know About My Potential Spouse’s Sexual Past? My Response – By Russell Moore

That Duin piece above, was, in turn criticized by this James Kushiner guy:

(Link): Doesn’t Like “Like, a Virgin?” by James M. Kushiner

Here are excerpts from the page by Kushiner, who is critical of Duin for criticizing Moore’s views:

He [Moore] is clear throughout the article about the Christian teaching about sexual activity, that fornication is “damnable”, and the sad necessity that couples even have to have “the conversation,”….

–end excerpt–

The problem, my dear Mr. Kushiner, is that Christians speak out of both sides of their mouth on the celibacy and virginity and all related issues (eg, marriage/ singleness/ gender roles, etc etc). It’s all fine and good if Moore mentions in passing that ((Link): source)

    What’s important for you to know is how he [the letter writer’s fiance] views sexual immorality. A man who will brush off past fornication as “no big deal” from which he’s “moved on” is a man with a conscience trained to do the same thing with future adultery.

–end excerpt–

But then Moore’s next commentary betrays a true support of sexual purity when he condescendingly lectures this young woman that,

    On the other hand, your dismissing him automatically on the basis of immorality is also dangerous. If he is repentant, seeing his past sin as hell-deserving but crucified, then you should receive him (all else being equal), just as you have been received.
    You are not “owed” a virgin because you are.
    Your sexual purity wasn’t part of a quid pro quo in which God would guarantee you a sexually unbroken man.
    Your sexual purity is your obligation as a creature of God. And you have rebelled at other points, and been forgiven. If you believe the gospel, you believe the gospel for everyone, and not just for yourself.

–end excerpt–

It’s very easy for those who have fornicated themselves, or who are currently married (they were a virgin when they wed, but are currently getting their sexual needs met in marriage), and I am guessing Moore and Kushiner fall into either one of those groups, to be so blithe and dismissive of sexual sin, and/or to lecture a single virgin who wants marriage that it is selfish or unforgiving to be concerned about a potential partner’s sexual past or to desire a virgin to marry.

Really, Mr. Moore, if a person’s sexual past is basically “no biggie,” as you make it out to be (despite your “fornication is not good” spiel in the same column), and a person should just drop the matter and let it go as though it’s nothing, if the person has repented of it, what then, is the point in me personally staying a virgin?

The message I receive from these views is that I might as well be having sex right now with various men, or just one steady boyfriend, since according to Moore, if I do get a marriage proposal from a Christian man in the future, he should just overlook my fornication with some other guy. Continue reading “Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner”

Hollywood Actress Admits: ‘I waited until I was 29 to lose my virginity’

Hollywood Actress Admits ‘I waited until I was 29 to lose my virginity’

Regarding this quote in article: “she did inevitably have sex before marriage”

Why was it “inevitable”? I’m in my 40s and still a virgin.

Link – Hollywood Actress Admits ‘I waited until I was 29 to lose my virginity’

    Actress Tamera Mowry-Housley, 35, uttered a somewhat-surprising admission on Thursday: The “Sister, Sister” and “Tia and Tamera” actress said on Hot97, a New York City radio station, that she waited until she was 29 to have sex. The star noted that her Christian beliefs were the basis of her decision to remain a virgin until such a late age.

    Adam Housley, her husband, is a Fox News correspondent and the only man she has been with — a rarity in today’s word, especially among Hollywood performers.

    While she did inevitably have sex before marriage, Mowry-Housley decided to then wait three more years until she tied the knot with the journalist, who was her boyfriend at the time.

    “I’m religious, so I waited until I was 29 to lose my virginity and then, you may not understand this,” she said of her decision, “[but] I did it and then I felt guilty and then I became celibate until I got married.”

    Watch the stunning admission, below (starts at 13:00):

    The actress married Housley in 2011 after dating him for six years. Last November, the couple had a son named Aden.

    Mowry-Housley appeared on the radio program along with the co-stars of her new television talk show “The Real”: Loni Love (comedian), Jeannie Mai (fashion expert) and Adrienne Bailon (Cheetah Girl).

Continue reading “Hollywood Actress Admits: ‘I waited until I was 29 to lose my virginity’”

Dude Arguing for Legalization of Prostitution Uses Same Rationale as Christians Concerning Celibacy and Sexual Purity

Dude Arguing for Legalization of Prostitution Uses Same Rationale as Christians Concerning Celibacy

LOL. Ironic. On (Link): the Janet Mefferd Show-7/11/2013, she quotes some (Non Christian?) guy who says he wants prostitution legalized. His basis for this is in part because everywhere people go through out their day, they see sexy sexified sexually alluring sexy images, on billboards, in magazines, and on television.

He feels this creates an expectation in people, and they have a right to get that expectation met via sex, and from prostitution, if they don’t have a spouse. He feels it is unrealistic or mean to expect people to control their urges, or to ask them to deny their sexual urges.

Radio host Mefferd, who is a Christian, mocked this guy for all this, and she mocked the plight of the hypothetical guy the pro-prostitution guy was using – that is, a guy who is single, sexually frustrated, and lonely.

Understand I’m not a fan of prostitution, but I do think Mefferd needs to be a bit more sympathetic to the struggles older singles face.

It’s not loving or compassionate to mock and ridicule the fact that a lot of singles are lonely and want to have sex, but have nobody to have sex with, or nobody to share their life with.

Mefferd happens to be married by the way, with two or three kids, so I would assume she is not lonely and is getting her sexual needs met. It’s oh so easy for married people such as her, who are in what I would assume, is a relatively healthy marriage, to mock singles or their plight.

Anyway, the funniest, or saddest, thing about this Non-Christian’s guy’s rationale for the legalization of prostitution is the very same one preachers and Christian dating advice writers give for why celibacy and virginity among adults is unrealistic, or
2. for the defeatist attitude among even conservative Christians these days, that
a. since anyone and everyone is fornicating, or
b. that since nobody can resist sexual urges and will eventually fornicate,
we might as well teach an, “Oh well, so you fell down and blew it sexually, God forgives sexual sin, just call yourself a “born again virgin” now, and all is well” philosophy.

Non-Christian- prostitution- supporter guy, who Mefferd was mocking on her program, was only saying the same exact thing Christian preachers, Christian TV personalities, and Christian bloggers have been saying the last few decades: nobody can expect anyone to withstand sexual temptation, so we might as well [insert solution here for each respective party] and we should give up on the idea of sexual purity, celibacy, and virginity.

Hell, self- professing Christians nowadays, such as “emergents,” the liberals, and apparently popular Christian blogger Rachel Held Evans, have apparently given up on Christian teachings and standards of sexual purity,
1. deeming Christian sexual purity teachings too hurtful to the feelings of women who may have been molested when they were three years old by Uncle Fred; or
2. are considered too hurtful or shaming by women who diddled their college sweetie 25 years ago; or,
3. such teachings on purity should be abandoned because society tends to be more forgiving of males that diddle than they are of females.

Nobody, not even most Christians, believes in celibacy or virginity anymore.

Conservative Christians, emergent Christians, liberal Christians, and Non Christians only come up with different solutions or approaches to sex, or how to deal with the aftermath of sex (e.g., unplanned pregnancy, men who won’t commit to marriage, etc).

I don’t see anyone saying, “Hey you, with the burning groin o’ lust: I know you want to have sex, but that doesn’t mean you have to cave in and do it.”

Your dippy, simplistic Southern Baptists such as Al Mohler, or Christian think tanks and groups, such as Focus on the Family, and other blockhead conservatives would say, “Just get married if you want to have sex!”

Yeah, dumb ass, and how do singles who want marriage go about doing that? Can single women order a groom off a shopping site online? No, they can’t. Getting a spouse is not easy. Singles cannot snap their fingers and make a spouse appear. Even going to social functions or joining a dating site does not guarantee a date, let alone a spouse.

So, pro-prostitution guy’s position concerning sex is not any different from most Christians I see these days: there is no expectation that people can stay virgins past age 25-30 or stay celibate.

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re Celibacy

(Link): Famous Historical Christian Figure Expects Everyone To Fail At Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

A Case Against Early Marriage by Ashley Moore (editorial)

A Case Against Early Marriage by Ashley Moore (editorial)

Read it here:
(Link): A Case Against Early Marriage by Ashley Moore (editorial)


    Eight years later, I’m still not married. I’d tell you it’s been awesome, but you probably wouldn’t believe me. Society, and particularly the church, seems so uncomfortable with singleness. By the time we hit quarter-life, friendly faces are ready to pair us off at any moment, as if being single necessarily means we’re incomplete. Some even come at us with warnings that we’ll become “leftovers” if we don’t find our mate soon. (Ask me if I’ve ever been called leftovers. I dare you.)

Then come the blog posts and articles, with stats and theories on why all our friends who ended up marrying their high school or college boyfriends got it right. The 2009 Christianity Today cover story, “The Case for Early Marriage,” was just the beginning. This wedding season brought another bump in pro-early-marriage arguments in Christian publications and mainstream magazines.

…This line of thinking remains risky, presenting marriage as such a positive move for 20somethings when so many of them aren’t ready. Surrounded by proponents of young love and young marriage, I felt a pressure beyond my years to make a commitment, and I am so glad I didn’t give in to those expectations, having grown up and grown closer to God in the years since.

…The statistics about the sex lives of single adults, including single Christians, are grim. According to a recent study in Relevant magazine, 80 percent of Christian singles in their 20s have had sex, and 64 percent had done so in the past year. By age 20, 25 percent of single women in the general public have cohabited, but by age 30, 74 percent of women have done so.

So yes, early-marriage champs, the longer we stayed unmarried, the greater our chances of sexual screwups. You win on that one.

But sex isn’t enough to hold up an argument for early marriage (though we hear it (Link): again and again).

Single Christians have the opportunity to throw the curve—to demonstrate that a life devoted to honoring Christ is in fact possible outside of the binds of marriage.

Exercising restraint and resolve to live a biblical singlehood speaks volumes to our fellow single men and women who treat sex as a casual thing. Living out Christian singlehood might also instill a bit of hope in the hearts of our nonbelieving friends; hope that there is more to life in your 20s and 30s than sex on the first date and late night booty calls. And trust me, folks, God is sovereign in our singlehood.

Marriage isn’t the solution to the immaturity of today’s 20-somethings. We don’t become grownups by putting a ring on it. My prayer for my generation is that we can grow into more mature followers of Christ, living as brothers and sisters in the faith as we walk through this journey.

…God doesn’t give us a timeline for when we need to marry; never do we reach cutoff point and become “leftovers.”…

Read the rest by clicking here.
—–Related posts, this blog:—-

(Link): Male Preacher Marries For First Time At Age 44

(Link): The Nauseating Push by Evangelicals for Early Marriage

(Link):  Let’s Kiss Dating Hello – Ring By Spring Culture at Christian Campuses, by N. Sheets

(Link): Getting Married Does Not Necessarily Guarantee Frequent Hot Satisfying Sexy Sex – Husband is Sexless for Eight Years (article)

(Link):  Salvation Army Bans Duggar / Quivering Cult’s ‘Retreat’ (Called ‘Get Them Married’) that Promoted Arranged Marriages for Teen Girls – Quivering Advocates Are Anti-Adult Singleness and Anti-Celibacy 

(Link): A Response by Colon to Regnerus Re: Misguided Early Marriage Propaganda

(Link): Rush to early marriage feeds Utah’s higher-than-average divorce rate (article)

(Link): Marrying Young – from “Stuff Christian Culture Likes,” by Stephanie Drury

(Link): Christian Teachings on Relationships: One Reason Singles Are Remaining Single (even if they want to get married)

(Link): Secular Media Also Pushing Early Marriage

(Link): Links: Delayed Marriage and How Straight People Paved the Way for Gay Marriage

Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

I have no doubt that the majority of Christians, maybe aside from some liberals and emergents, would tell you that they believe homosexuality is a sin – at least the behavior, maybe not the orientation – and that they believe homosexuals should refrain from sexual activity. So I would not be surprised if most of them look at the heading of this post and feel very confused.

Concerning heterosexual singles, the majority of Christians are opposed to them having sex outside of marriage – or, they at least claim to feel this way.

However, such Christians stress God’s forgiveness of pre-marital sex and fornication to the point they somewhat cancel out the Bible’s commands of sexual purity, making them appear rather moot.

As I discussed (Link): in a previous post, there is still a current of thought on some Christian blogs, forums, and comment sections under articles on issues such as homosexual marriage, that because one cannot reasonably expect any adult to indefinitely refrain from any and all sexual behavior, that is it unrealistic or cruel to expect homosexuals to never have sex (which in their case, obviously, would be with someone of the same gender).

And, of course, there is the same thought at play for hetero singles: many Christian preachers and even lay persons assume it is impossible for any Christian to refrain from sex for months, years or decades.

Many Christians assume that only a small minority of Christians have the “gift of celibacy” (never mind (Link): there is no such thing). Further, these same Christians usually assume celibacy bestowed upon those “gifted” with it is some kind of super power, wherein God removes all sexual desire (also untrue).

With un-married heteros who stumble into sexual sin, preachers frequently get around this by emphasizing “God’s forgiveness.”

That is, almost any time I read a Christian blog, article, or book about sexual sin among heteros, or hear a Christian on television discuss the single and hetero-sexual sin, it is always mentioned that God forgives sexual sin, so the single is advised to not fret about it.

(Contrary to liberal and emergent Christians, (Link): I rarely see an over-emphasis on virginity or a shaming of fornication or fornicators.)

There was a story in Huffington Post where a mother explained she and her husband were very devout Christians, and at some point when her son was a teen or early 20 something, he texted her one day and told her he was homosexual.

This was a son who she and her husband raised in the church. The son confided in his youth group that he had homosexual tendencies and urges, and they supported him as best they could.

As the son got older, the article said, the mother said she basically told the son he had to choose between his sexuality or Jesus, and he tried to suppress his homosexuality even more than before.

This was stressful for her son. He turned to drug abuse to cope.

Eventually, the son called home and asked if he could come back, if she could love him even if he were homosexual, etc. By this stage, the mother said yes, she just wanted her son back. She got him back, but he later died from a drug problem (one last drug binge).

Here is the part of the article I wanted to call out (from the Huffington Post article “Just Because He Breathes”); the mother said,

“Choosing God [over a homosexual orientation], practically, meant living a lifetime condemned to being alone. He [her homosexual son] would never have the chance to fall in love, have his first kiss, hold hands, share intimacy and companionship or experience romance.”

I am quite sorry about the death of her son. Having said that, I would like to point out that the situation is no less different for hetero Christian singles.

While hetero, un-married Christians might be able to share a “first kiss” and “hold hands,” they are instructed by the Bible not to get intimate.

~ No Guarantee of Marriage for Heterosexuals Either ~

I may never marry. I am hetero. I have made it to age 40+ and have not married, though I wanted to. I may die single.

Ergo, one common argument I see, which is “Oh yeah, well as a hetero, you at least have a CHANCE at getting married, homosexuals don’t even have that” is a bogus one. In order for me to have a “chance” at marriage, I must first have a boyfriend. I do not have one. I may never get another one.

I saw a book review once by a 50 year old, never- married Christian woman where she said that she has a circle of 40- and- 50- something, never- married Christian women friends who all desired marriage. She said one of those friends died at the age of 52 or 54 (from cancer, if I recall correctly).

This woman’s 50-something friend, who wanted marriage, never got to experience it. So please, stop with the “oh yeah, but at least you straights have the possibility of marriage!” argument – because we really do not.

Continue reading “Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles”

Pat Robertson: (basically): Pre Marital Sex is Okay (or to be totally expected) Because People are “Sexual Beings”

Pat Robertson: (basically): Pre Marital Sex is Okay (or to be totally expected) Because People are “Sexual Beings”

On Today’s Bring It On segment (Bring It On consists of television viewers asking advice of The 700 Club show hosts):

The female co-host agreed with Robertson’s position, saying if God doesn’t permit sexual sinners into heaven, “a whole lot of people wouldn’t make it in.”

You can watch that segment here: LINK: Bring It On video

Some woman wrote in saying she did the pre marital nasty and popped out a kid as a result of that years ago, and she now assumes God will not let her into heaven as a result.

(I was not aware that the only un-forgivable sin the Bible mentions is pre-marital coitus – or having children out of wedlock. It is utterly remarkable how completely ignorant some people are about Christianity. Does this woman never read a Bible?)

About people being “sexual,” Robertson feels that way especially about “young people.” Robertson made it clear that young people can’t but help get all sexy sexified and do the sex because of their “hormones.”

It’s not like anyone past 25 years old ever has any sexual urges, there Pat. Dream on.

I managed to avoid giving in to sex as a teen and 20-something, despite the sexual urges and hormones: it’s called “self control,” Pat.

Remember also, I posted on an older blog entry that Robertson had sex with his wife before marriage, resulting in their first son (search for the name “Pat Roberston” on the upper right side of this blog, in the search field, to find that post). Maybe Robertson’s own dalliance is why the dude is typically so easy on sexual sin.

Interestingly, and on the same show, Robertson shows no tendency to forgive a guy who has a porn habit.

Another woman wrote in to say her current boyfriend (BF) admitted that two years ago he loved him some porn, but now says due to therapy, he doesn’t touch the stuff.

Robertson still advises the woman to drop ex-porn boy like a hot potato. Why so forgiving about a woman who popped a kid due to pre- marital sex, but no mercy for some guy who USED TO have a dirty web site addiction?

Anyway, contra Robertson: while it may be true that some people have sex before marriage, not all of them do.

Not advocating here that Christians bash in the heads of fornicators or unduly shame them, but really, what a slap in the face to Christian celibates past the age of 30 for these Christian spokespersons who dismiss sexual sin with a shrug of the shoulders and a, “Meh, every body does it, so don’t worry about it” stance. And this stance is regularly adopted by Robertson and Christian bloggers, and preachers I see on TBN (Christian network).
Related posts this blog:

(Link): Why So Much Fornication – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link): Advocate of Family Values [Pat Robertson] Doesn’t Uphold Family Values | Stop Asking Pat Robertson for Advice America!

(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

(Link): Pat Robertson to married woman: All men are cheaters and sex crazed horn dogs, but that’s okay because they’re men

(Link): Are Christians Tossing Out Prohibitions Against Pre Martial Sex (radio show)

(Link): Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)

Famous Historical Christian Figure Expects Everyone To Fail At Sexual Purity

Famous Historical Christian Figure Expects Everyone To Fail At Sexual Purity

Go to this page and click on the dark red colored link that says “Podcast 25”

(Link): Mere Christianity: Politics, Sex, Marriage

I listened to that podcast one time yesterday, in which the host discusses C S Lewis’ views about sex. It is possible either the host unintentionally misrep. the guy’s views, or I didn’t understand what he’s saying.

Based on my understanding of his podcast, it sounded to me as though he said Lewis was saying nobody, and I mean nobody, not even Christians, can be expected to live a life of sexual purity – and as such, because EVERYONE misses the mark in sexual purity, we should all be super duper, super forgiving about sexual sin.

I’ve heard of C. S. Lewis over the years, though I’ve never actually read any of his books for myself. I thought this Lewis guy was supposedly a great stalwart defender and expositor of the Christian faith – but he thinks it’s impossible for Christians to remain sexually pure? Not quite the defender of Christian morals I thought he would be.

One reason of several why there is so much fornication among Christians today is not due solely to delayed marriage, it’s not all the smut in society, it’s not due to The Pill and feminism, but that Christians have no expectation that people, whether Christian or Non, can practice sexual self control.

See my previous posts on this issue:

(Link): Why So Much Fornication – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re Celibacy

(Link): No Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

(Link): Never Married Christians Over Age 35 who are childless [and Celibate] Are More Ignored Than Divorced or Infertile People or Single Parents

(Emergents, Sexual Abuse Victims, some Feminists, and Liberals attacking sexual purity teachings and virgin until marriage teachings mentioned in the following post):

(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

For anyone reading this post, I would strongly encourage you to read a previous post I wrote:
(Link): ❈ Why So Much Fornication – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity
Here’s what caught my attention the other day:



    “A new sexual ethic for Christians is desperately needed. I for one am going to work on that. Will you join me?” – Tony Jones

    Tony Jones is asking all of Christendom to join him in a quest to lift the moral outrage we Christians seem to have over premarital sex. Yes, that’s right.

    Apparently the Bride of Christ has had its collective undies in a bunch over this for centuries, and we need to stop, and just do it. I’ll share more from his blog post about this titled, (Link): Is It Time for Christians to Celebrate Pre-Marital Sex? in just a moment. (Warning: You might be disturbed by the photo he used for this article. Just saying.)

    But first, you’re probably asking, who is Tony Jones and where does he get the authority to challenge God about anything?

    Tony’s bio tells you pretty much all you need to know about where his authority comes from. You can find this over on the Patheos Progressive Christian Channel [omit bio]…

    On to the article. He spends a moment or two gushing over two authors who lament at how unfair it is for Christians to have to wait until marriage to have sex.

      “Human beings are sexual beings. There’s no way around it,” says Jones. “And the fact that, in the West, the age of marriage has been steadily creeping upward means that our bodies are ready for sex long before we’re walking down the aisle. In the U.S., men get married at 29 and women at 27, on average. And we reach puberty a good decade-and-a-half before that.”

    He then gives a nod to Esquire Magazine writer John H. Richardson, who opines,

      “I want to suggest that sex, be it adulterous or premarital or deviant or polyamorous, is a good thing, not a bad thing, and that sex itself is the moment of grace. And that our sterile idea of perfection is the actual sin. To start with the subject on the table, adultery is a brave rebellion against the invisible prison we build for ourselves.

    And then this clincher from Jones, who tells us that we should stop pretending and accept that our children are probably doing it anyway:

    To pretend that those are two virgins walking down the aisle, approaching the coital bed for the first time is uncommonly naive. And it seems to me that Jesus was lots of things, but he wasn’t naive to the world in which he lived.
    He did, however, both preach and live prophetically within that culture. He didn’t take it as it was, without pushing back against it. In his day, it was that tax collectors were ostracized and that men shouldn’t pluck heads of grain on the Sabbath. Today, sex is everywhere. It’s unavoidable.

Does it matter a hill of beans what I think or what Tony Jones thinks? Nope. It only matters what God says. His breathed-out word, the Bible, promotes complete abstinence before marriage. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations of which God approves (Hebrews 13:4).

Continue reading “Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)”

Critique of CT Article: The Real Value of Sex

Critique of CT Article: The Real Value of Sex

(Link): CT Article: The Real Value of Sex (by Caryn Rivadeneira)

The first problem I have with the editorial by Ms. Rivadeneira: the stock photo accompanying the editorial on the top of the page is a teenage girl kissing a teen-aged guy in her bedroom.

So, right away, this is setting the tone: the author is primarily concerned with people under the age of 25 having sex.

The opening paragraphs are not any better: they talk about college aged women (20 somethings) selling their bodies on websites to older guys (“sugar daddies”) who will pay off their college expenses.

Next up, the author gets into how sexual purity teachings in religious circles (she cites the case of a young Mormon rape victim) make the female fornicators or female sexual abuse victims feel like trash, since such lectures often compare a fornicator (not sexual abuse victims) to “chewed gum” and use other analogies that revolve around the idea of “being used” or “used merchandise.”

I’ve discussed this stealth attack against Christian sexual purity teachings a little bit before, such as (Link): here, (Link): here and (Link): especially here.

Supposedly, so the thinking goes among many liberal Christians, emergents, and feminists, no Christian can or should ever uphold sexual purity as biblical and the right thing to do, because God forbid it might hurt the tender feelings of some woman who had sex with her boyfriend 15 years ago, or that of a 50 year old woman was fondled by her Uncle Herb when she was ten.

The sexual abuse victim has my sympathy for the abuse, but I do not see sexual assault as valid reason to ignore or throw away the Bible’s standards of sexual purity or expectation about people being virgins until marriage, in regards to consensual sex.
(Please click the “read more” link to read the rest of this post, thanks)

Continue reading “Critique of CT Article: The Real Value of Sex”

Preachers Who Use Strippers, Hula Girls, Topless Hunky Men, and Strip Poles During Church Services and Give Sex Diplomas to Teens – Yes, Really

Preachers Who Use Strippers, Hula Girls, Topless Hunky Men, and Strip Poles During Church Services and Give Sex Diplomas to Teens – Yes, Really

Some pastors have not ruled out using strippers in future church services (anything to lure in the un-saved to church!), while others have used hula girls and topless muscular men.

The host of the following radio show also discusses Christian television show host’s Pat Robertson’s view point that all men are horn dogs who are sex-obsessed, so you can’t blame a man for cheating on his spouse. (I wrote about Robertson on this topic (Link): here and (Link): here).

Here’s the radio show:

(Link): PERRY NOBLE HASN’T RULED OUT USING STRIPPERS IN CHURCH (also mentions Pat Robertson’s views that all men are sex obsessed, and a church that used hula girl and topless men in services)

Related links other sites:

This next link below: the strict gender role stereotyping and the assumptions of what either gender wants is disgusting.

Not all men are into strippers, like football, and not all women are into teddy bears, hearts, rainbows, and being “touchie feelie.”

I had a male co-worker once who HATED sports (and he was HETERO, and he later got married to a woman and had a kid by her), and not only was this guy BORED with football and other sports, but he said he hated being around men who talked about sports incessantly.

Had a female co-worker who adores college football, and an Aunt who loves football.

My ex used to bring me roses and do other typical romantic stuff, and I usually didn’t care for it.

I was a tom-boy in childhood (I hated Barbie and other dolls; I preferred playing with trucks, Planet of the Apes action figures, etc.), and in adulthood, I differ from the stereotypical “girly-girl” churches expect women to be.

Churches need to stop perpetuating gender stereotypes, because people cannot be neatly categorized into little boxes. Even if 90% of all females are all “love ‘n rainbows” all the time, it makes the other ten percent feel left out and alienated in these sermons.

Also: a lot of women LIKE VIDEO GAMES, and I mean the violent ones, not “dress- a- pony.”

(Link): Maverick pastor gets crowds streaming into church after erecting a stripper pole behind pulpit

    A local pastor said he put a stripper pole on his pulpit to help preach his message.

    It may raise some eyebrows, but Pastor Mike Scruggs said he’s hoping it will save some marriages. Scruggs admits he’s anything but a traditional pulpit preacher.” We try to make it relevant, straightforward.

    We don’t sugarcoat anything,” he said. On Friday, Scruggs’ sermon series drew a packed house at the Light of Word Ministries on Colerain Avenue.” We talk about sex. We talk about drugs. We talk about faith. We talk about relationships…, things that people are dealing with on a day-to-day basis,” Scruggs said.
    The series of sermons is called the “Battle of the Sexes,” with some rather interesting visual props.” On one side, (we’ll have) what men want or desire: your stripper pole, your video games, your sports,” Scruggs said.

    “The woman’s side (is) orderly, neat. It’s all about love, candy, teddy bears, roses and being wined and dined and cherished.”

    Scruggs said his church focuses on real situations and brings godly solutions.” We push the envelope, that’s true,” he said.

Continue reading “Preachers Who Use Strippers, Hula Girls, Topless Hunky Men, and Strip Poles During Church Services and Give Sex Diplomas to Teens – Yes, Really”

Conservative Christian Sexist Immature Imbecilic Pressure on Women to Look Pretty and Skinny and to Put Out Sexually

Conservative Christian Sexist Immature Imbecilic Pressure on Women to Look Pretty and Skinny and to Put Out Sexually

Two posts from Christianty Today:

(Link 1): I’m Sick of Hearing About Your Smoking Hot Wife

(Link 2): Stay Sexy or Else? Well, Please Forgive These Mommy Hips

I’ve written about this situation in several older posts.

Christians, particularly certain types of Christian men – either the old fogies (as in they are in their 60s or older) who are still stuck in a 1950s American sexist mentality; or the younger (as they are in their 30s, 40s, and 50s), skinny- jeans wearing, YRR, Neo Calvinist type preachers and their devotees – keep telling Christian women that their looks really, really matter.

Some of these pastors or Christian television hosts – who are frat boys in grown men’s bodies – will sometimes toss out qualifiers or disclaimers to young girls and women in their sermons or blogs, such as, “But remember your value lies in your identity in Christ,” or some such spiritual-sounding platitude, but, their on-going, slavish obsession with telling women to look hot and sexy, be skinny, and please their husbands in the bedroom (even when they are feeling sick), are truer to how they really think and feel about the female gender.

Sometimes, female gender complementarians buy into this sexist, unbiblical nonsense too, and sell it to other Christian women (see this post: “Gender Complementarian Product for Females: Don’t Base Your Value on Your Looks, but Wait, Yes, You Should”).

I’ve yet to hear a male pastor tell his male audience that they must perform sexually no matter what, whenever their wife wants sex, even if the husband is feeling ill. Yet Christian women are subjected to this nauseating swill and pap on a pretty regular basis, and the preaching of this message seems to have increased in frequency in the last few years.

Other than one male Christian blogger who says that males need to stay in shape as well as ladies, I’ve not seen any Christian males, and certainly not any big name pastors (or even any small potato pastors) instruct the men folk to stay trim, muscular, and get hair plugs for the women in their lives.

Looks matter to women, even to Christian ones. They really do, even to the women who try to sound spiritual on the internet by saying, “Oh gosh, I don’t care what a man looks like, as long as he loves Jesus.” These women are in denial. No woman alive is into flabby, obese guys, and most prefer hair. And teeth. But you won’t hear your preacher say any of this from the pulpit or in blogs or books.

Here is a copy of “Stay Sexy or Else? Well, Please Forgive These Mommy Hips” by Janelle Aijian

    Some Christian marriage conferences and self-help books tell us it’s up to the wife to stay looking great and try new things in the bedroom, to (Link): keep her husband satisfied and her marriage strong.

    Mary DeMuth (Link): recently critiqued the popular “smoking hot wife” line, pointing out that for the many Christian wives recovering from experiences of sexual abuse, this kind of imperative makes the difficult path towards healthy intimacy even harder. For a woman trying to find a way to lower defenses, shake off memories, and find true, godly communion with a spouse, being told to act the part of the sexy wife is 11 steps in the wrong direction.

    But the real problem with all this evangelical sex talk is even bigger than that. Any woman trying to live intimately with her husband gets damaged by these sorts of claims, not just those who are recovering from abuse. It’s antithetical to the Christian view of marriage altogether.

    As we remind Christian couples to “stay in shape and try new things,” we can play into a broader cultural premise on sex—that it’s all right to leave a spouse once the spark of sexual excitement and attraction has dissipated, that couples who don’t find sex exciting anymore don’t, won’t, or even shouldn’t, stay together. An adventurous sex life becomes the unspoken requirement for lifelong monogamy.

    Once that idea gets in a woman’s head, it’s hard to shake it. In the back of her mind, she knows the choice to have children also means changing her body forever. Her shape will become different. The sex will be different. Amid the vulnerability of pregnancy and childbirth, women face the fear of becoming less attractive to their husbands, who are meant to find them sexy for years and years to come if they want their marriage to last.
    Continue reading “Conservative Christian Sexist Immature Imbecilic Pressure on Women to Look Pretty and Skinny and to Put Out Sexually”

Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)

Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)

Pat Robertson, evangelical host of the television show “The 700 Club,” was answering a viewer question about adultery on today’s (May 15, 2013) program, in the segment of the show called “Bring It On.”

The woman said her husband had an affair, and she was trying to forgive him but couldn’t move past it.

Robertson’s answer to this viewer is similar to previous ones he’s given, where he rationalizes and excuses the male’s sinful actions, and he continues to imply that men just can’t help it, gosh dang it, because males are wired to see a hot woman and get worked up over it, and they cannot resist.

Contra to Pat Robertson the Bible says something about the Holy Spirit giving each believer a measure of self-control, and in other New Testament passages, Paul talks about sexual behavior as though it is something that can be controlled by each believer; the Bible does not speak of sex as something that is beyond a person’s control or ability to avoid.

In his response to the married lady’s letter today, Robertson said (I am typing this from memory – though the first comment is a word- for- word quote of his; the rest are accurate paraphrases of his comments):

    “Well he’s a man, okay.”
    “Males have a tendency to wander a little bit and you have to make home as appealing as you can so he won’t want to cheat.”
    “The magazines are filled with salacious pictures of women”
    “Everywhere there are salacious temptatations to tempt a man.”

Robertson has taken a similar position in the past, when women write in to ask him why their husband is an alcoholic; a cheater; or what have you.

Robertson’s response is to blame the woman. In some situations, and despite not having a photo of the wife, and despite the letter writer not mentioning the appearance of the wife, Robertson assumes the wife is ugly and fat, and tells her men like pretty ladies, so the wife needs to lose weight and dress nice, that if only the wife would be skinny, pretty and non argumentative, she would not give her a husband a reason to be unfaithful, get drunk, or whatever.

I find it jaw dropping, very sexist, and incredible that Robertson keeps being so sexist.

A man is responsible for his own actions. It doesn’t matter if his wife is 800 pounds and toothless; that still would not give him a right to seek out a 25 year old 120 pound fashion model to start up a fling.

If you think about it, some of Robertson’s views are sexist against men.

I’d like to think at least some men on the planet are not so prone to, or easy to, caving in to sexual temptation, mistreating their wives or committing adultery, but he suggests men are helpless against their lusts or hormones, and a woman should just accept this as a fact of life.

By the way, this gets back to one theme I have been hammering away at on this blog for over a year:

One reason that there is so much sexual sin among Christians is that there is NO EXPECTATION THAT CHRISTIANS CAN OR WILL CONTROL SEXUAL BEHAVIOR.

It is continually ASSUMED and put forth by pastors, Christian authors on dating books, Christian blogs about dating, and by average lay persons, that sex is something that cannot be resisted or lived without.

Robertson’s quotes to his viewers that I have highlighted in this post is an example of what I mean. He is not the only one, however. I see other Christians, “every day Joe’s” around the web, who make similar comments: they feel they cannot live “X” number of days or months without sex.

Pastor Mark Driscoll of “Mars Hill” church frequently makes the same assumption in his speeches, blogs, or books about sex, dating, marriage: because he cannot picture himself living without sex for more than 3, 4 days in a row, he cannot conceive of any Christian being able to go long without sex.

And of course Driscoll is not the only one. If you look around the web long enough, on sites containing blogs by Christian pastors, or listen to their sermons on You Tube, or watch Christian talking heads on “TBN,” these assumptions come up over and over and over again.

As long as Christians keep buying into the secular premise that sex is a biological necessity that cannot be resisted, and preachers do not have an attitude of EXPECTATION that Christians can and will refrain from sex, we will keep seeing Christians, both married and single, committing sexual sin.

Update: Here’s the video (at least I think it’s the same thing I saw the other day):

Same video segment hosted here:

(Link): Robertson: Husband Cheated But “Well, He’s A Man” (Video on You Tube)

Continue reading “Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)”