Sex After Christianity by R. Dreher

Sex After Christianity

This starts out discussing homosexuality or homosexual marriage and moves on to broader sexual topics, and how Christianity impacts societal views of sex and so forth. Very interesting read.

(Link): Sex After Christianity by R. Dreher

Excerpts:

    Gay marriage is not just a social revolution but a cosmological one.

    By ROD DREHER • April 11, 2013

    … In a dinner conversation not long after the publication of American Grace, Putnam told me that Christian churches would have to liberalize on sexual teaching if they hoped to retain the loyalty of younger generations.

    This seems at first like a reasonable conclusion, but the experience of America’s liberal denominations belies that prescription. Mainline Protestant churches, which have been far more accepting of homosexuality and sexual liberation in general, have continued their stark membership decline.

    It seems that when people decide that historically normative Christianity is wrong about sex, they typically don’t find a church that endorses their liberal views. They quit going to church altogether.

    This raises a critically important question: is sex the linchpin of Christian cultural order? Is it really the case that to cast off Christian teaching on sex and sexuality is to remove the factor that gives—or gave— Christianity its power as a social force?

    Though he might not have put it quite that way, the eminent sociologist Philip Rieff would probably have said yes. Rieff’s landmark 1966 book The Triumph Of the Therapeutic analyzes what he calls the “deconversion” of the West from Christianity.

    Nearly everyone recognizes that this process has been underway since the Enlightenment, but Rieff showed that it had reached a more advanced stage than most people—least of all Christians—recognized.

    Rieff, who died in 2006, was an unbeliever, but he understood that religion is the key to understanding any culture.

    For Rieff, the essence of any and every culture can be identified by what it forbids.

    Each imposes a series of moral demands on its members, for the sake of serving communal purposes, and helps them cope with these demands. A culture requires a cultus—a sense of sacred order, a cosmology that roots these moral demands within a metaphysical framework.

    … Rieff, writing in the 1960s, identified the sexual revolution—though he did not use that term—as a leading indicator of Christianity’s death as a culturally determinative force.

    In classical Christian culture, he wrote, “the rejection of sexual individualism” was “very near the center of the symbolic that has not held.” He meant that renouncing the sexual autonomy and sensuality of pagan culture was at the core of Christian culture—a culture that, crucially, did not merely renounce but redirected the erotic instinct.

    That the West was rapidly re-paganizing around sensuality and sexual liberation was a powerful sign of Christianity’s demise.

    It is nearly impossible for contemporary Americans to grasp why sex was a central concern of early Christianity. Sarah Ruden, the Yale-trained classics translator, explains the culture into which Christianity appeared in her 2010 book Paul Among The People.

    Ruden contends that it’s profoundly ignorant to think of the Apostle Paul as a dour proto-Puritan descending upon happy-go-lucky pagan hippies, ordering them to stop having fun.

    In fact, Paul’s teachings on sexual purity and marriage were adopted as liberating in the pornographic, sexually exploitive Greco-Roman culture of the time—exploitive especially of slaves and women, whose value to pagan males lay chiefly in their ability to produce children and provide sexual pleasure.

    Christianity, as articulated by Paul, worked a cultural revolution, restraining and channeling male eros, elevating the status of both women and of the human body, and infusing marriage—and marital sexuality—with love.

    Christian marriage, Ruden writes, was “as different from anything before or since as the command to turn the other cheek.”

    The point is not that Christianity was only, or primarily, about redefining and revaluing sexuality, but that within a Christian anthropology sex takes on a new and different meaning, one that mandated a radical change of behavior and cultural norms.

    Continue reading “Sex After Christianity by R. Dreher”

No Man’s Land – Part 3 – Liberal Christians, Post Evangelicals, and Ex-Christians Mocking Biblical Literalism, Inerrancy / Also: Christians Worshipping Hurting People’s Feelings

No Man’s Land – Part 3 – Liberal Christians, Post Evangelicals, and Ex-Christians Mocking Biblical Literalism, Inerrancy / Also: Christians Worshipping Hurting People’s Feelings

BIBLICAL LITERALISM AND INERRANCY

Another common thread I see on forums for spiritual recovery sites (or ones by ex Christians, liberal Christians, etc), is a rejection of

1. Biblical literalism
2. Biblical inerrancy

This is all so much intellectual dishonesty in another form it makes me want to throw up.

I spent years studying about the history of the Bible, Bible translation, and so forth.

I came away realizing that the Bible is inerrant and yes, we can trust the copies we have today; the Bible is not filled with historic blunders and mistakes, and all the other tripe atheists like to claim.

It is not entirely accurate for critics to paint the Bible as a purely man-made document, that contains mistakes because it was copied and re-copied numerous times over the centuries.

While there is an aspect of truth to that description, the end conclusion, or how that description, impacts the NIV or NASB Bible version you have sitting on your coffee table right now, is not how critics of the Bible paint it.

Atheists and ex-Christians who are critical of the Bible are disingenuous and duplicitous in how they paint some of their arguments against the Bible, and they should be ashamed for it, as some of them claim to be truth lovers.

Not too long ago, an ex-Christian woman at another site was declaring that Christians cannot “trust” the Bible because the originals (called the Autographa) do not exist.

Oh please! I pointed out to her that is not so: as far as the New Testament is concerned, scholars have many thousands of copies of the Autographa (some dating within decades of the originals), and by use of lower textual criticism, they can reconstruct the READINGS of the Autographa.

It is not necessary to have “the biblical originals” themselves to know what they said, as she was dishonestly arguing (but she later accused me of being dishonest!).

I pointed this FACT out to her (about it not being necessary to have the autographa to know what the autographa said), where upon she shot back the falsity that one cannot trust the translations anyway because they are done by “conservatives.”

Oh, but she is willing to grant liberal scholars or liberal theologians the title of un-biased, as though they do not have an ax to grind against the Bible and dating its documents and so forth?

Because the liberal scholars do in fact start out their examinations of the Bible from an anti- Christian bias.

The woman with whom I was corresponding on this matter doesn’t seem to understand that the practice of lower textual criticism is a science – a liberal who uses that methodology would come to the same conclusion as the conservative who uses it.

So here we have an example of one type of ex-Christian I am talking about:

This woman claims she was a Christian at one time, now fancies herself atheist or agnostic (and some kind of expert on the Bible), but who now spews inaccurate or untrue things about the Bible, because she disdains all of Christianity in general.

My view: Do not lie about the Bible’s history, accuracy, and textual evidence just because “Preacher Fred” at your old church was a big meanie to you X years ago (or insert whatever other emotional baggage you carry against Christians that now colors all your other views about the faith and Bible here) – please!

Give me a freaking break.

I am genuinely compassionate towards people who have been hurt by churches, but not to the point I cover for their dishonesty about how they discuss church history, the biblical documents, etc.

Because some of these folks claim to have been hurt by Christians in general, or a particular denomination, or what have you, they feel fine now rejecting biblical literalism and inerrancy.

Continue reading “No Man’s Land – Part 3 – Liberal Christians, Post Evangelicals, and Ex-Christians Mocking Biblical Literalism, Inerrancy / Also: Christians Worshipping Hurting People’s Feelings”

No Man’s Land – Part 2 – On Post Evangelicals or Ex Christians or Liberal Christians Ignorantly Hopping Aboard Belief Sets They Once Rejected

No Man’s Land – Part 2 – On Post Evangelicals or Ex Christians or Liberal Christians Ignorantly Hopping Aboard Belief Sets They Once Rejected

✹ What follows is actually the heart of my “No Man’s Land” view. This is what prompted me to write it: ✹

✹ TAKING THE OPPOSITE POSITION OF WHAT YOU USED TO BELIEVE BUT NOW HATE – DUE TO EMOTIONAL REASONS OR A KNEE JERK RESPONSE OR FROM SPITE – IS JUST AS WRONG AND MISTAKEN ✹

As to the forums and blogs by ex Christians, liberal Christians, self identifying post-evangelicals, or those still Christian who expose spiritual abuse…

I notice a number of the regular visitors to these sites – the ones who left an abusive or legalistic church or denomination – simply now operate in the reverse in their thinking, which is, IMO, just as bad or wrong as the thinking they are leaving.

There are different types of ex-Christians one must take into consideration when discussing this topic, so I shall present some sketches of them first.

IFBs (Independent Fundamentalist Baptists)

For example, there are ex IFBs (Independent Fundamentalist Baptists).

IFB preachers and churches are ridiculously legalistic. They make up rules that are not in the Bible, or twist or exaggerate the rules already there to the point those rules then become unbiblical.

IFBs are the contemporary, American versions of the Bible’s Pharisees: nit picky, anal retentive, legalists who make up man-made rules but insist they are “biblical” and thus binding on all believers.

IFBs concoct man-made traditions they expect all IFB members to adhere to, just like the Roman Catholic hierarchy does towards Roman Catholic members.

For example, IFB churches are legalistic about secular entertainment and clothing and physical appearance.

IFB churches teach their congregations that women should not wear pants but only skirts. And the skirts should be only so many inches above or below the knee.

According to IFBs, men should not have hair that touches the back shirt collar – not a mullet to be found in IFB, which may be a good thing. Secular music and television is sinful and should always be avoided.

IFBs have other legalistic rules for just about every aspect of life.

IFBs are vehemently anti-Roman Catholicism as well as anti-Calvinism.

Continue reading “No Man’s Land – Part 2 – On Post Evangelicals or Ex Christians or Liberal Christians Ignorantly Hopping Aboard Belief Sets They Once Rejected”

No Man’s Land – Between Agnosticism and Christianity / Also: It’s Emotional Not Intellectual (Part 1)

No Man’s Land – Between Agnosticism and Christianity / Also: It’s Emotional Not Intellectual (PART 1)

This will be a series of posts where my thoughts wander in and out and all over, and it rambles, but there is a point or two behind it.

Since I’ve been in a faith crisis the last couple of years, somewhere between being an agnostic and a Christian, I have noticed I don’t fit in anywhere. I reside in No Man’s Land.

(Even before then, when I was a total, committed Christian, and politically, I was, and am, right wing, I still didn’t fit in at most blogs and forums, including political ones, and including ones for right wingers!

I tend to be one of those personalities who annoys or angers everyone, even those on “my side” of an issue, except a small number of people, who are either on my side of a topic or not, who “get me” or who appreciate where I’m coming from – again, this is true for even the ones who disagree with me on whatever topic we are discussing.)

I am in this really weird place now, where I am critical of some aspects of conservative Christianity, and see where conservative Christians get some doctrines and other things wrong, but, too, I am not fully on board with militant atheism (I find the New Atheists to be arrogant, vile, hateful and rude), and I don’t even care for lukewarm atheism.

Nor am I in the camp of anything and all things liberal Christianity, except where I think they get the occasional point correct (such as their rejection of gender complementarianism).

Since drifting away from the Christian faith more the last few years, I more often began frequenting forums or blogs for and by atheists, ones by liberal Christians, ones by ex Christians, or by Christians who were abused by a former church who remain Christian but who dropped out of Church, or who now are on a crusade to expose abuse by preachers or the absurdity and harm of current evangelical gimmicks.

THE MILITANT ATHEISTS

A clarification: when I say I have been visiting atheist forums and blogs more often, I am very picky about which ones I regularly visit.

I do not like the frothing- at- the- mouth, extremely bitter, biased- against- Christians- type atheistic communities.

The bitter atheist groups sound like a bunch of irrational, hate-filled loons who reject Christianity for emotional reasons, but who lie to others and themselves and say, “Oh no, it’s purely intellectual.”

But their unrelenting, insane amount of hatred at any and all things God and Christian, is just a total turn-off to me, so I try to avoid such sites.

These angry, always-ranting atheists are really nothing more than Fundamentalist Atheists or Taliban Atheists. They are just as dogmatic about their atheism as Muslims are in their Wasabi Islam or Baptists are in their Neo Fundamentalism.

Really, those types of atheists are just as bad as the religious groups they claim they hate, but they don’t seem to spot that they are. It’s ironic – and it’s hard to stomach the day in, day out anger and hatred, so I try to avoid their sites.

HYPOCRITICAL CHRISTIANS VS NON HYPOCRITICAL CHRISTIANS

Also, you have to be honest with yourself, which I do not find militant atheists to be, by and large: not every single Christian is a hypocrite, jerk, idiot, dullard, or complete jackhole.

I say this as someone who is very fed up with Christianity and Christian persons myself these days.

But your average militant atheist will never admit that some Christians are in fact okay and not being hypocrites.

I have known and met a few Christians who were sincerely trying to live the Christian faith out, such as my mother, who is now deceased, and her mother before her (my grandmother).

I’ve met a few honest, sincere Christians online who do help people and show compassion to the wounded.

So it’s not fair to completely dismiss the entirety of Christians and their faith or treat them all like jerks because some are liars, mean, or abusive.

Which is not easy for me personally, because at the same time, I do keep noticing that a lot of self-professing believers do NOT live out what the Bible says.

Many self professing Christians today, for example, do not protect victims, such as young church members who have been sexually molested by preachers.

Nor do many church goers today hold accountable preachers who bilk their church goers out of millions to buy big mansions and jets.

These idiots, these lemmings, actually defend their greedy pastors online, which I’ve written about here: (Link): Your Preacher Sucks – and People Have a Right To Say So And Explain Why.

Then you have a conservative or evangelical culture, which claims to care deeply that people preserve sex until marriage, but if you actually find yourself 40 years of age and still single – and therefore still a virgin, such as myself – these same churches and Christians do not offer you any support.

You either go ignored, or preachers and talking heads of such groups “run down” and insult celibacy as well as older, celibate adults. Churches treat single (and especially celibate) adults as though they are flawed, lepers, weirdos, or losers.

Churches wrongly counsel abused wives to return to their spouses – this is particularly true, again, of churches or Christian groups who buy into “biblical womanhood” (aka “gender complementariansm”) or “patriarchy.”

Churches and average Christians also remain ignorant or callous about matters pertaining to mental health issues, from P.T.S.D. to depression and anxiety attacks.

Some Christians wrongly and insensitively teach that “real Christians” can never get depression or other mental health maladies.

Or, some Christians believe and teach that prayer, faith, service to the poor, or Bible reading alone can cure one of mental illness.

Still other Christians (or the same type) will shame and guilt suffering Christians for using anti-depressant medications, or for seeing secular or Christian psychiatrists and therapists (see this link for more, “Over 50 Percent of Christians Believe Prayer, Bible Reading Alone Can Cure Mental Illness (article) – In Other Words Half of Christians are Ignorant Idiots Regarding Mental Illness”).

Yet other Christians are incompetent at, or unwilling, to provide more ordinary, “every day,” run- of- the- mill comfort to other Christians who are hurting, such as a Christian who is stressed out over a job loss, someone who is in mourning for a deceased loved one, etc.

Christians are dropping the ball in numerous ways.

And this failure, this huge failure, causes life long Christians like me to look long and hard at the faith and wonder if it’s true at all.

It causes even someone such as myself to ask if the faith is true, because

  • it doesn’t appear to be working,
  • it doesn’t make a difference in people’s life who profess it,
  • most who claim to follow Christ don’t actually do what he taught,
  • and some Christians refuse to hold Christians caught in bald faced sin accountable but excuse them for the sin,

~ and it makes you wonder “what is the point, then.”

I find this discrepancy between confessed belief and actual practice shocking, because I myself sincerely tried living out the faith since childhood.

Also, my Christian mother was a role model for me, and she genuinely, consistently lived out and by biblical teachings, including getting up off her ass and actually HELPING people (giving them money if they were in a bind, cleaning their homes for them when they were sick, listening to them cry and rant about their problems for hours without judging them or interrupting them, etc).

I am not seeing most other Christians do any of this. They say they believe in those things but then they do not do them.

BLOGS AND FORUMS FOR SPIRITUALLY ABUSED OR THOSE HURT BY CHURCHES

Before I actually get into this topic (which I discuss more in Posts 2 and 3), here is some background leading up to it.

As far as the sites I have visited by liberal Christians, ex Christians, atheists, as well as sites by Christians for the spiritually abused:

By and large, these have been wonderful, supportive sites and groups to visit (the ones run by Christians for hurting Christians).

I have noticed, though, that there are problems even within these types of communities, and I don’t entirely fit in at them, either.

Continue reading “No Man’s Land – Between Agnosticism and Christianity / Also: It’s Emotional Not Intellectual (Part 1)”

Long Editorial about Virginity at CT – Don’t Blame Evangelicals for the Cult of the Virgin – I Notice It’s the Fornicators Who Want to Ignore or Downplay the Bible’s Teaching that People Are To Stay Virgins Until Marriage

Long Editorial about Virginity at CT – Don’t Blame Evangelicals for the Cult of the Virgin

I am not in complete agreement with all points raised in this editorial farther below.

In particular, I disagree with this view (among a few other portions of the essay):

    Additionally, Christians should extol obedience— in all its forms— not virginity. Chastity is, after all, an act of obedience

Yes, virginity should in fact be extolled; currently in Christian culture, as well as this very editorial, it is being disrespected and downplayed.

You know the Christians who do not want virginity upheld, valued and extolled? None of them were virgins when they married.

The people who have failed at the Biblical command to remain virgins until marriage are the ones who want the teaching ignored or watered down.

You may possibly be able to find some Christian somewhere, who stayed a virgin past age 35, who feels Christians should ditch or downplay the virginity teachings and stop esteeming virginity, but by and large, most of the people I am seeing talking smack about virginity are fornicators.

Some are self-admitted: they will tell you they boinked around a lot as teen aged kids and hearing sexual purity lessons in Bible class when they were 18 or 25 years of age hurt their feelings or made them feel ashamed.

This is like a convicted thief telling Christians,

    “Look, I’m 35 years old now. When I was a teen ager, I robbed a lot of convenience stores and a few banks.

All those sermons I heard against theft when I was 18 or 25, and all the lessons on how stealing is wrong I heard at age 19 in Sunday School, made me feel so dirty and ashamed!

Therefore, I think Christians should stop condemning theft and esteeming honesty in particular and just speak in very generic terms about being ethical in a very vague way.”

That is what fornicators, those who had pre-martial sex, are asking the rest of Christian culture to do in regards to sexual sin and virginity.

And it makes no sense to me why Christians should stop condemning “sin X” or stop extolling “virtue Z” just because some have failed to do “Z” or feel guilty about “X.”

I am not sure I am comfortable or trusting of sexual sinners dictating to the rest of the Christian community how churches should be discussing or handling topics such as sexual sin and virginity. (It also reminds one of this: (Link): How About Using Celibates as Role Models For Celibacy? (Oddity: Christians Holding Up Non-Virgins [Fornicators] As Being Experts or Positive Examples on Sexual Purity)))

Virginity is a form of obedience, how odd the writer of this piece assumes otherwise.

Oddly, while this paper at “Christianity Today” portends to defend virginity in some fashion, it actually puts virginity down by saying virginity is a lost cause and Christians should really only support a broader concept of purity or chastity. ~Way to abandon adults who have remained virgins past age 35, author of this web page.

(Link): Don’t Blame Evangelicals for the Cult of the Virgin

    As the saying goes, we didn’t start the fire.
    by Karen Swallow Prior

Even in the midst of a sexual revolution, of a generation drawn to open relationships, hookup culture, and “polyamory,” virginity still enthralls.
Yet another beautiful young woman is auctioning hers off.

The cable show My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding juxtaposes a cultural expectation to maintain virginity until marriage with a flashy celebration on the day-of. Feminist defenses of virginity crop up on edgy websites. A burgeoning academic field is devoted to (Link): “virginity studies.” Even the “first kiss” video that recently went viral is but a variation on the “first time” theme.

In the midst of this, younger evangelicals question the church’s message to encourage Christians to maintain “purity” until marriage. They have a point: some of our efforts cross the line between encouraging chastity and venerating virginity. But as the examples above show, making an idol out of virginity is a problem that’s much bigger than evangelicalism.

A recent (Link): article [Naked and Ashamed: Women and Evangelical Purity Culture] at The Other Journal that details virginity’s history in the church moves toward correcting a myopic vision that can’t see past the pews of personal experience to the broader historical and cultural contexts. Yet, the exaltation of virginity for virginity’s sake began, and continues, well outside the church.

Rather than merely an evangelical hang-up, our adoration of virginity is a universal impulse with a long tradition.

Throughout human history, virgins have been worshipped in paintings, sculptures, poetry, prose, and song. Today’s church needs to do a better job at distinguishing between biblical and cultural views of virginity to develop a robust theology of the body, human sexuality, and chastity.

Chastity, sexual abstinence outside of marriage and faithfulness within it, has been a distinctive of the Christian church since its beginnings, brought into sharp relief by an array of sexual practices found in the surrounding pagan cultures.

Unlike the balanced view of sexuality offered by the church—as a gift that promotes human flourishing when expressed within the limits of its Creator’s design—ancient sexual practices embraced the extremes: homosexual pederasty, for example, on one end and sacred virginity on the other.

…Fascination with virginity is by no means limited to medieval Catholics, courtiers, and queens—and virginity was no less fashionable in the modern era.

In the Victorian age, women were caught in a double bind: in her idealized role as wife and mother, the Victorian woman couldn’t, of course, be a perpetual virgin and fulfill those roles, so she was exalted instead as the “Angel in the House.”

In the meantime, a thriving prostitution industry arose, perpetuating a dichotomous view of women as either angels or whores and nothing in between.

… Christians, of course, are commanded to live chaste lives before and during marriage. But when we decontextualize the purpose and meaning of virginity or attempt to promote it through guilt or gimmicks, the church reflects ancient myths and modern fetishes more than biblical principles.

While there’s no formula for how Christians can encourage chastity without accommodating cultural practices that are at odds with biblical principles, a few guidelines come to mind.

First, chastity is best cultivated within the context of vibrant relationship and genuine community.

Yet, the (Link): rituals and (Link): pledges [Study: Abstinence Pledges Aren’t Enough] popular with some Christians reflect ancient pagan rites more than a biblical faith centered on personal relationship.

Continue reading “Long Editorial about Virginity at CT – Don’t Blame Evangelicals for the Cult of the Virgin – I Notice It’s the Fornicators Who Want to Ignore or Downplay the Bible’s Teaching that People Are To Stay Virgins Until Marriage”

Stop Rewarding People For Their Failure – Christians Speaking Out of Both Sides of Their Mouths About Sexual Sin – Choices and Actions and How You Teach This Stuff Has Consequences – Allowing Sinners To Re-Define Biblical Terms and Standards

Christians Speaking Out of Both Sides of Their Mouths About Sexual Sin – Choices and Actions and How You Teach This Stuff Has Consequences

The over-riding point I wanted to make in my post from yesterday, but I do not think I was clear enough about it (I was half asleep when I wrote the last blog page) is that Christians speak out of both sides of their mouth on the sexual sins front, but then, ironically, have the nerve to complain about sexual sins.

On the one hand, a lot of American, socially conservative Christians complain, whine, and cry about the high rates of fornication, adultery, and homosexual sex and homosexual marriage in American culture, but then turn around and downplay, ridicule, or water down the Bible’s teachings about sexual purity, virginity, and celibacy in their blogs, magazines, sermons, television appearances, and pod casts.

If you want to know one reason homosexuality has taken off or received an embrace among evangelicals to the degree it has, and why there is more fornication now, even among Christians, it’s because the church does not esteem, defend, and respect adult singleness, virginity, and celibacy.

Good lord knows churches either insult adult singles or refuse to help them, something I’ve written of before in several posts, including this one:

    • (Link):

To Get Any Attention or Support from a Church These Days you Have To Be A Stripper, Prostitute, or Orphan

Ignoring adult singles and their needs, a respectable amount of whom are staying celibate, or insulting adult singles, and treating them like second class citizens, acting as though singleness and celibacy are not as good and worthy as marriage, or acting as though adult singles are failures (and many married Christians do in fact behave in these ways or adhere to these stereotypes), is contributing to the rise of sexual sin in the church.

Even socially conservative Christians have taken it upon themselves within the last several years to be influenced by emergents, liberal Christians, and post-evangelicals to water-down virginity and celibacy, if not ceasing to preach about the worth of both altogether.

These groups – no longer the post-evangelicals and liberal Christians only, but also the conservatives now – are attempting to re-define terms and words, as well.

Some want to do away with the word “fornication,” for example, because they feel it is too old-fashioned or too judgmental.

Starting around ten years ago, I started hearing Christians on Christian talk shows use phrases such as “born again virgin” or “secondary virginity” which are phrases that are applied to Christians who have committed sexual sin, to make them feel less guilty about having sexual failings.

I do believe that the terms “sexual purity” and “virginity” are inter-changable, but I am seeing more and more Christians try to divide the two, by explaining that sexual purity is not tantamount to virginity – and I disagree.

That is not to say that a fornicator cannot cease having pre-marital sex, because a fornicator can make a change and stop fornicating. That is true.

But, it is also true that virginity is a form of sexual purity. But more and more Christians today are denying that “virginity = sexual purity,” because a lot of self professing Christians have failed to keep their virginity intact until marriage.

It’s so strange to me, and an abject travesty, that Christians are seeking to change biblical teachings, to move the goal posts on what constitutes acceptable and un-acceptable behavior, all based upon people’s failings, sins, and feelings.

It seems to me that robbery is on the increase in the last several years.

Why are we not seeing these same Christians, who are so willing to pardon sexual sin and downplay celibacy – saying things like,

    “Let’s not refer to robbery as “stealing” anymore, let’s call it by a euphemism, so as not to hurt the feelings of bank robbers. Let’s stop sermonizing against theft, because if we keep insisting the God of the Bible is opposed to theft, it might hurt the feelings of all the kleptomaniacs out there. Let’s not positively teach about, or encourage, honesty and holding down an honest day’s labor at a 9- to- 5 job.”

Why would you re-define standards and rules, all to spare the feelings of people who fail to keep those rules and standards, who do not even attempt to keep the rules?

If a person keeps failing at something (as in sexual abstinence), rather than encourage that person to buck up and improve, the majority of the Christian culture very oddly has decided a winning strategy is to go the opposite direction, which is quite un-biblical, and say, “hey, we get it – you cannot help but fail in this area, so don’t even try. Just give up, cave in, and later call yourself a ‘born again virgin.'”

FFS, Christian people. You cannot sit there and say virginity, sexual purity, and celibacy are really not all that important, as is your habit, and tell people you expect them to fail at biblical sexual ethics, then turn around and complain that homosexual and hetero fornication rates are sky rocketing.

Continue reading “Stop Rewarding People For Their Failure – Christians Speaking Out of Both Sides of Their Mouths About Sexual Sin – Choices and Actions and How You Teach This Stuff Has Consequences – Allowing Sinners To Re-Define Biblical Terms and Standards”

Christian Gender Complementarian Group (CBMW) Anti Virginity and Anti Sexual Purity Stance (At Least Watered Down) – and their Anti Homosexual Marriage Position

Christian Gender Complementarian Group (CBMW) Anti Virginity and Anti Sexual Purity Stance – and their Anti Homosexual Marriage Position

This is one of those pieces that seems to seek, at least on some level, to affirm virginity, celibacy, and sexual purity, but in the end scheme of things, somewhat undermines all of it to say Christians need to soften their stance on all these issues, because, gosh durn it, don’t you know that some women (who have engaged in consensual pre-marital sex) get really hurt feelings when they hear that the Bible condemns sexual sin, and such teachings makes them doubt their self-worth?

Sexual abuse victims are also tossed into the mix, which is one of my huge pet peeves in these discussions about sexual purity and virginity.

Folks need to keep these issues separate.

Bringing up rape and sexual abuse in conversations about the Bible’s standards on consensual sexual activities unnecessarily muddies the waters, and has the effect of Christians saying,

    “These purity and virginity discussions make abuse and rape victims feel just awful, so let’s just water the Bible’s sexual standards down, and even pretend like the Bible does not demand that all people remain virgins until marriage. This will spare the feelings of so many sexual abuse victims.”

The Bible’s teachings on sexual ethics in regards to consensual sex become negated, in other words.

It’s really kind-hearted, nice, and considerate to care about people’s feelings, but to the point where one’s sense of compassion and kindness over-rides definite standards of right and wrong as laid out in the Bible, and to say, “Aw shucks, let’s just explain away or ignore the Bible’s teachings on ‘Topic X!’,” to spare that person’s feelings, no. At that stage, I think you have tip-toed over into heresy.

Notice, too, that even in the headline that the notion of even defending the Bible’s view on sexuality is termed in a derogatory manner: if you are someone who defends the Bible’s position on sex, you are referred to as a “purity pusher.”

Continue reading “Christian Gender Complementarian Group (CBMW) Anti Virginity and Anti Sexual Purity Stance (At Least Watered Down) – and their Anti Homosexual Marriage Position”

Christian World Vision Charity Okay and Dandy With Homosexual Marriage But Not Okay With Singles Fornicating

Christian World Vision Charity Okay and Dandy With Homosexual Marriage But Not Okay With Singles Fornicating

A few days ago, the news reported that charity World Vision, which is apparently Christian-based, announced that they would not prohibit the hiring of homosexual married couples to work for their organization. I have included a few links about this much farther below.

World Vision later reversed this decision when evangelicals had a collective heart attack and threatened to pull funding.

So your emergents, liberal Christians, and ex-Christians then went online to complain and cry about the reversal with chants of “Homophobes!” and so on.

I find both sides of the homosexuality debate annoying, frankly.

While I don’t support homosexuality (or homosexual marriage), I think too many evangelicals and other types of conservatives make much too much of it and should perhaps pipe down about it.

On the other hand, the homosexual rights groups and their hetero fan club can be vicious, hate-filled, Gestapo, running about persecuting and harassing anyone who does not enthusiastically jump aboard the Big Gay Train. So both sides can go take a long walk off a short pier as far as I am concerned.

Now, concerning this World Vision bruhaha, I don’t have a big opinion in and of itself.

The one aspect of this that caught my attention is that initially, World Vision said that while they were (at the time) open to hiring homosexual married people, that they never the less still expected all their staff and employees who were single to remain abstinent.

I assume they meant all singles, not just hetero singles, but who knows?

I really tire of this. I really do. I understand that the Non Christian world will be fine and dandy with all manner of behavior the Bible condemns, such as homosexuality, but I am beyond fed up with a church or groups who claim to be Christian who hold double standards on sexuality.

If you are a Christian who expects me to remain celibate because I am unmarried (I happen to be Hetero), then how can you then turn around and in effect give a stamp of approval to homosexuality vis a vis a nod of approval towards homosexual marriage? Every time Christians take a step towards basically embracing homosexuality, they are chipping away yet some more at any reasons as to why a HETERO adult should remain celibate.

If you are going to let the homosexuals trollop around, you have no grounds upon which to tell hetero singles they must still refrain from sex.

(Link): World Vision’s Gay Compromise

Excerpts:

    by Brad Kramer

    World Vision, a global Christian anti-poverty nonprofit and one of America’s top ten largest charities, announced yesterday it has changed its policy and will now hire gay employees who are in legal same-sex marriages.

    The billion-dollar-a-year organization already requires employees to agree to an evangelical lifestyle code, including abstinence outside of marriage. In an interview with Christianity Today World Vision president Richard Stearns justified the policy shift as an acknowledgement of the diversity of opinions on homosexuality inside the American church.

    Stearns argued that World Vision has historically removed itself from contentious theological debates in favor of unity around their core focus on poverty. He also strongly urged supporters not to interpret the change in hiring policy as a salvo in war over gay marriage. With naiveté that boggles the imagination, Stearns hoped that the evangelical world, and in particular the organization’s large evangelical donor base, would also look past this “minor” policy shift and continue their support.

    The conservative evangelical blogosphere immediately exploded with condemnation. A who’s-who list of influential conservatives like Franklin Graham (son of Billy) and Russell Moore (political voice for the Southern Baptists) excommunicated World Vision for its capitulation to the dark side. Other notable figures made it clear that the entire Christian faith, and perhaps even Western Civilization itself, is threatened by World Vision and others who profess to be Christian and tolerate gay relationships. Many urged Christians to stop their monthly financial support of third-world children through World Vision (even if it means breaking off relationships between sponsor and child) and supporting alternative organizations who do not employ “unrepentant homosexuals.”

    World Vision is arguably the biggest and broadest “parachurch” organization in America, and thus has the unenviable role of trying to please everyone.

(Link): World Vision to recognize gay marriage of employees

(Link): Special Report World Vision Goes Liberal

(Link): Famous Christian charity hiring married ‘gays’

    In an effort to encourage “unity” among its church partners, the highly influential evangelical Christian relief and development ministry World Vision has announced it will permit Christians in legal same-sex marriages to be employed.

    In an interview with Christianity Today, Richard Stearns, president of the U.S. branch, called it a “very narrow policy change” that should be regarded as “symbolic not of compromise but of [Christian] unity.”

    The U.S. branch, based in Federal Way, Wash., has about 1,100 workers. In 2012, Washington became one of the first states to legalize same-sex marriage by a popular vote.

    Stearns said the policy still will require employees to confine their sexual activities to within a marriage.

    “Changing the employee conduct policy to allow someone in a same-sex marriage who is a professed believer in Jesus Christ to work for us makes our policy more consistent with our practice on other divisive issues,” Stearns told the evangelical magazine. “It also allows us to treat all of our employees in the same way: abstinence outside of marriage, and fidelity within marriage.”

    The announcement drew strong criticism from other evangelical groups.

    “World Vision president Richards Stearns said they will leave the debate over same-sex ‘marriage’ to the churches where he acknowledges it is tearing them apart,” said Diane Gramley, president of the American Family Association of Pennsylvania. “However, the only reason there is any debate among churches on this issue is because those who accept ‘gay’ pastors or allow same-sex ‘marriage’ or blessings cannot read the plain language of Scripture.

    Gramley noted that in Matthew 19, Jesus “defines marriage as only between one man and one woman, and I Corinthians 6:9 includes homosexuals in the list of wrongdoers who will not share in the Kingdom of God.”

    “One cannot be a true Christian and be involved in a so-called same-sex marriage, thus World Vision has already wavered on its resolve that all employees be followers of Jesus Christ. Compromise and creating division are at the center of this decision,” she said.

    Worse, she said, the decision by World Vision to “empower” the homosexual movement will “continue misleading many who turn to the world, rather than the truth of the Gospel, for answers.”

(Link): World Vision Reverses Decision to Hire Gays

(Link): The apostasy of World Vision

(Link): World Vision will hire those in same-sex marriages

Continue reading “Christian World Vision Charity Okay and Dandy With Homosexual Marriage But Not Okay With Singles Fornicating”

Elderly Widower Dude is a Slut Says Adult Daughter – Why Churches Need to Teach Celibacy Applies to Even Married People Not Just Under Age 25 Singles

Elderly Widower Dude is a Slut Says Adult Daughter – Why Churches Need to Teach Celibacy Applies to Even Married People Not Just Under Age 25 Singles

So this adult daughter writes to an advice columnist explaining that her elderly father lost his wife (her mother) a few years ago, and ever since, he has been a big slut. (Farther below, I have pasted in her letter to Dear Amy so you can read it for yourself.)

I’d like to point out that “slut shaming” happens to men too, but I usually only hear secular feminists complain that it happens to women.

The woman’s senior-aged father is sleeping around with numerous women, he has several girlfriends at a time, but keeps each girlfriend (GF) in the dark about all the other GFs.

The daughter is afraid someone, her dad, or one of the dad’s GFs, is going to get an S.T.I. (aka S.T.D.).

This is yet another reason Christians need to get over the mentality that teachings about sexual purity and celibacy are for young singles only.

Not only do you have never-married (or not- married- yet) adult singles over the age of 30 who are trying to remain sexually pure, there are plenty of whom are still virgins, but you get these married couples whose spouse dies at some point in their lives, and they go out and start having sex with a lot of people after the death.

Celibacy is not just for young singles, it’s for ~everyone~. !HELLO, Christian culture, HELLO preachers of America!

You have married couples where one partner loses his (or her) sex drive due to stress, physical health (illness), or one or both partners find the sex boring after several weeks or months. As a result, some marriage counselors are telling such partners to go have an extra-marital fling (an affair).

I wrote about that situation here:

      (Link):

Why Christians Need to Uphold Lifelong Celibacy as an Option for All Instead of Merely Pressuring All to Marry – vis a vis Sexless Marriages, Counselors Who Tell Marrieds that Having Affairs Can Help their Marriages

It’s not enough for churches to keep acting as though messages of sexual purity are for teens and college students only.

Another reason they need to step up: a lot of 20- somethings and 30- somethings today, ones who drift away from church or the faith now, reject a lot of the church’s teachings on sexuality – that is, the churches and preachers who even bother to teach that pre-marital sex is a sin at all, because many do not.

(See: (Link): Christian Preacher Admits He Won’t Preach About Sexuality / Sexual Sin For Fear It May Offend Sexual Sinners)

The problem is, a lot of these ex-Christians or uber- liberal Christian types feel that their conservative churches wrongly taught about sex. These types feel that the Bible does not speak out against sex outside of marriage, even though yes, it in fact does. So, they disregard about any and all limitations on sex at all.

Churches need to do a better job, and try a different approach of, speaking about sexual sin, because a lot of the 20-somethings are later rejecting or disregarding what they are hearing about sex in church when they later leave church.

The fact remains that even married adults need to hear sermons about sexual purity, because some of them are failing miserably at it.

If your husband takes a two week business trip, and you find yourself alone, are you going to sleep with your UPS delivery man, or next door neighbor, while the husband is gone?

If you are a married man whose wife is in the military, and she gets shipped overseas for a six month tour of duty, are you going to remain faithful to her, or whore it up with other women while she is away?

What if you’re 50 years old and your 50 year old spouse is physically disabled or gets early-onset dementia, are you going to be true to him or her, or start sleeping around?

Churches need to address those types of situations and stop assuming that sexual temptation and sin is something that besets ONLY 17 year old kids.

Here’s the letter:

Ask Amy: Randy widower worries his daughter

Dear Amy:

I’m really concerned my widower father is turning into something of a slut.

My mother passed away seven years ago, and then my father had the very unfortunate luck of having a girlfriend who succumbed to cancer a few years later.

I understand that he’s lonely, and needs affection that only a female companion would give, but he’s currently courting three women, none of whom know about each other.

I know it is none of my business, but I am actually frightened that these women he met online who so easily jump into bed with him will leave him with an STD.

I’ve heard that the spread of STDs is actually more prevalent among the older generation these days. What would you suggest I do to convince him that these trysts may be more than he bargained for, without overstepping boundaries?

He’s quite headstrong and rarely listens to me; what should I do?

Signed,
— Concerned daughter

You see, preachers need to be preaching about sex in such a way that even married people understand that sex outside of marriage is SIN.

Because evidently, there are a lot of married men who feel okay and fine cheating on their wives while the wife is alive, or like the man in the letter above, they feel just fine engaging in fornication, and with multiple partners, once the wife dies.

Here was Amy’s reply:

Dear Concerned:

I shared your question with a spokesperson for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who responded:
“While CDC continues to find that STDs disproportionately affect younger people in the U.S., it is important to understand that many older Americans face unique prevention challenges (e.g., discomfort in discussing sexual behaviors with physicians and partners and discomfort discussing condom use). It is also important for physicians to assess older patients’ risk.”

Older men may not have gotten the memo about wearing a condom. In their randy youth, condoms were used for birth control; now they are vital disease control devices. Your father could become infected and/or infect his partners.

Onto his sluttiness. There is not much you can (or should) do about his choice to sleep around.

The women he is seeing may also be mutually consenting (slutty) elders, and while this prospect isn’t quite what you want for your dear dad — it is what it is and you may have to accept it and only remind him to speak to his doctor about his risks.

Sexual promiscuity can be a sign of depression, however. If you feel he is out of control, you must do your best to urge him toward a mental health evaluation.

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Related posts:

(Link): No Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity – Christians Attack and Criticize Virginity Sexual Purity Celibacy / Virginity Sexual Purity Not An Idol

(Link):  Sex and Alzheimer’s – Selfish, Perverted Husband Rapes His Alzheimer’s Wife

(Link): Married People Who Find Themselves Single Again – Spouses With Dementia / Married People Who Are Lonely

(Link): Widower to Advice Columnist Talks about Being Stereotyped by Married Couples or Ignored by Other Marrieds Since His Wife has Died

(Link): AARP post: How to Handle a Sexless Married Life – But Christians Promise You Great Hot Regular Married Sex

(Link): Horny Celibacy – Another Anti Virginity, Anti Sexual Purity Essay – Also discussed: Being Equally Yoked, Divorce, Remarriage

(Link): Grieving widow doesn’t need to start dating in order to heal (letter from advice column)

(Link): Widows and Childless and Childfree Have Better Well Being Than Married Couples and Parents says new study

(Link): “Family-ing” Single Adults by D. Franck – How Churches Can Minister to Single Adults
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To Tweet:

Elderly Widower is Slut Says Daughter – Y Churches Need Teach Celibacy 2 Married Pple Not Just Teens https://christianpundit.wordpress.com/2014/03/18/elderly-widow-dude-is-a-slut-says-adult-daughter-why-churches-need-to-teach-celibacy-applies-to-even-married-people-not-just-under-age-25-singles/ #Celibacy

Church Touts Homosexuality as a Gift, Not a Sin

Church Touts Homosexuality as a Gift, Not a Sin

Isn’t this like saying being a hetero fornicator is a gift? Or, a little like Christian blogger Tim Challies insisting (Link): “all fornicators are virgins now”?

(Link): Church Touts Homosexuality as a Gift, Not a Sin

    BY ERYN SUN, CHRISTIAN POST REPORTER
    April 27, 2011 |9:47 pm

    Being gay is a gift from God, asserts one church in Ohio.

    That’s the message that Central United Methodist Church is spreading throughout their community via a digital billboard, launched on Monday.

    This “simple statement,” the church announced, is “intended to be a gift to those who have experienced hurt and discrimination because of their real or perceived sexual orientation.”

    …. Jeff Buchanan, the director of Exodus Church Equipping & Student Ministries, agrees that the Church must display love and compassion for those in the LGBT community. But he opposes the message that CUMC is sending through their “Being Gay is a Gift from God” campaign.

    “Why would God bestow this ‘gift’ only to condemn it throughout the Bible? This would seemingly contradict His character as a God who is loving and just.”

    The Toledo church’s controversial billboard ad is directly connected to a long month-long sermon series by its new pastor, Bill Barnard. The church is hoping that the ad will move the public towards tolerance, reported ABC 13, and not perpetuate anti-gay attitudes and behaviors, which were harming the LGBT community.

    Continue reading “Church Touts Homosexuality as a Gift, Not a Sin”

Anti Virginity Christian Blogger Tim Challies Now Writes: ’31 Days of Purity: My Identity’ – What?

Anti Virginity Christian Blogger Tim Challies Now Writes: ’31 Days of Purity: My Identity’ – What?

This is rich. I just learned about a new Tim Challies post via Twitter, a post where he is starting a new blog series where he discusses being sexually pure for 31 days.

I left this response below Challies’ post, the second one in the series (link to that post on the Challies blog page):

    LOL, is this a joke? Challies is the same guy who wrote an anti virginity editorial a few months ago, where he declared that “even fornicators are virgins now.” Which totally makes a mockery out of adults such as myself, who are literal virgins past the age of 40.

    When you downgrade the importance of virginity to soothe the injured feelings of fornicators, who often claim these days of feeling ashamed or guilty when they hear sermons or read blogs esteeming sexual purity and virginity, you are inadvertently insulting adult Christians who are still virgins into their adulthoods.

First, some background to get you up to speed:

So, Challies is one of those Christians who runs around wanting Christians to downplay the concepts of -and biblical teachings concerning- virginity and sexual purity, because a lot of Christians today – especially emergents, ex-Christians, and post evangelicals – are running around on their blogs saying how horrible sexual purity teachings make them feel, because they fornicated in their teens or early twenties.

Such women want, and expect, the entire body of Christ to ignore, and stop talking about, sexual sin. They want Christians to stop teaching that sex prior to marriage is sinful.

Next thing you know, well-known emergent, liberal, and post-evangelical, feminist Christians bloggers took up the banner of this cause, going on and on about how teaching about virginity and denouncing pre-marital sex was harmful to women and should be stopped. Not too many months after, more conservative Christians – such as Tim Challies, Al Mohler, and others – took up that banner too.

Oh gosh golly, by writing this,
(Link): 31 Days of Purity: My Identity by Tim Challies,
isn’t Tim concerned that he may hurt and shame the feelings of men who have not been sexually pure?

And, if, based on Challies previous posts, all of us are virgins now, even the fornicators, what on earth possible difference does it make if a man engages in pre-marital sex (or views pornography), since, when he does, according to Challies, that man can just consider himself a virgin?

Here are a few excepts from
(Link): 31 Days of Purity: My Identity by Tim Challies

    March 02, 2014
    by Tim Challies

    Through the month of March, I am inviting you to 31 Days of Purity—thirty-one days of thinking about and praying for sexual purity. Each day features a short passage of Scripture, a reflection on that passage, and a brief prayer. Here is day two:

    [snip (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) which mentions that fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God, etc]

    As men we face the temptation to gain our deepest identity from our sexuality. For some, identity is found in sexual prowess while for others it is defined by sexual failures. The Corinthians, like us, suffered from identity confusion.

    … [Challies then goes on to explain 1 Corinthians 6:9-11]

    …. What Now? Consider joining our 31 Days of Purity Facebook group. It is optional, but you will find it a good place to go for discussion and encouragement. (Note: that Facebook group is for men only; here is one for Women Supporting Men)

I never prayed about sexual purity. I’m not sure if Challies is suggesting that men pray and ask God to keep them from caving in to sexual temptation.

You know how I resisted the urge to cave in and have pre-marital sex, and I’m still a virgin in my 40s (and I was engaged for a few years; I had the opportunity to have sex)? Here’s how: I made a choice not to have pre-marital sex, and I utilized self-discipline. That was all there was to it. I did not pray and ask God to keep me from sexually straying.

I’m not necessarily saying it’s wrong for a person to pray and ask God for help in this matter, only I don’t believe it’s necessary. I remained a virgin this long without praying about it.

By the way, if you are thinking that I have no sex drive or a low libido, you are incorrect about that.

If you assume God “gifted me” with celibacy, you are incorrect. God does not gift anyone with celibacy, or give them supernatural abilities to resist sex – for more information on that, please see posts such as…

Anyway, as the Challies post I am discussing in my post here is only “day two” of Challies 31 day blog series, there will be plenty more blog posts about sexual purity by Challies in the future.

I am just gob smacked. How Christians so often speak out of both sides of their mouth on these topics. They often claim to support sexual purity, celibacy, and virginity until marriage, but they don’t.

When they start writing op eds or blogs encouraging fornicators, they tend to downplay the importance of sexual purity and make sexual sin sound like it’s not a big deal at all. Take Challies’ earlier comment about fornicators in his previous post, where he wrote “we are all virgins now [even fornicators].”

To write that is to make the word “virgin” nonsensical. The word “virgin” loses its meaning when Christians redefine it to mean “fornicators included,” or to say it can and does refer to people who have fornicated previously but who are currently celibate (ie, “born again virgins” or “secondary virgins” or “spiritual virgins.”)

What they don’t seem to comprehend is that such lack of support for honest to God virginity – no penis has been in my vagina ever, and I am over age 40 – has in part caused me to give up on this.

I have changed my thinking and intend on having pre-marital sex when I resume dating.

I mean, really, what could Challies’ comeback be to that? He has no comeback, no response.

Challies could say, “Well, um, er, the Bible forbids pre-marital sex.” Well no kidding!

But does this not take us back to first base: I’ve been saying so all along, that God frowns on pre-marital sex and the Bible says pre-marital sex is a sin, but every time I do so, a guy like you, Challies, comes along and says, “But even if you have pre-marital sex and are a fornicator, you too are a virgin now; Jesus forgives you of your sexual sin, so let it go.”

With a rationale like that, I don’t see much of a downside or negative penalty to fornicating, unless you happen to hook up with an HIV- infected preacher who doesn’t tell you he’s HIV- infected (like this).
——————————–
Related posts, this blog:

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity (they attack both concepts)

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming

(Link): Cheating Married Christian Women and Lessons I Take Away – and Being a Virgin Does Not Guarantee God will Send You a Spouse

(Link): Christians Not Only Accept Pre Marital Sex Among Adults But Are Also Now Accepting “Shacking Up” as The New Norm

(Link): Joshua Rogers of Boundless / Focus on the Family Attacks Biblical Teaching of Virginity Until Marriage

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re: Celibacy

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”

(Link): Christian TV Host Pat Robertson says on Christian TV show that ‘Virginity Has Nothing To Do With Marriage’ and Says (Paraphrasing) ‘Virginity Was Fine For Mary But Not Applicable For Any Other Christians’

Links About Sex Week / Male Modesty & Male Shaming / Online Dating Scammers / Female Sexuality / Rampant Pre Marital Sex Among Christians / Single Christian Women Feel Pressured to Fornicate In Dating / other topics (Link Dump)

Reports About Sex Week / Male Modesty / Online Dating Scammers / Rampant Pre Marital Sex Among Christians / Single Christian Women Feel Pressured to Fornicate In Dating / other topics (Link Dump)

I do not have the patience to make separate posts out of each link / story / topic below, so here is another link dump, with links to lots of different sex, infertility, marriage, online dating, purity, and whatever, editorials and stories.

I’m not necessarily in agreement with any or all of the views expressed in any of these pages. I post them only because they touch on topics I regularly discuss on this blog.

Some of these links from The Christian Post I present below are from the last two to three weeks, but they cover topics I already discussed here on this blog weeks before (CP authors are sometimes weeks or a couple of months behind material I post to this blog first).

Sometimes, The Christian Post quotes people I don’t agree with about everything, such as Mark Regnerus – see this link and this link for more about that.

Regnerus pushes for early marriage and seems to engage in a bit of singles-shaming (blaming singles who want marriage for being single, for not being able to find a partner), which is wrong. You can see the links above for more about that.

About me covering stories before The Christian Post does.

Take this first link of their below as an example – not only did I cover this story first (on Jan 28, 2014 here, this link, but also on Feb 8, 2014, see this link), but also some of the web sites the author references in his series (which makes me wonder if he’s been to my blog and is copying my material):

(Link): Christian Dating Culture (Part 1): Majority of Christian Singles Reject Idea of Waiting Until Marriage to Have Sex

Excerpts:

    • BY MORGAN LEE, CHRISTIAN POST REPORTER

February 12, 2014

Survey Reveals That 61% of Christian Singles Are Willing to Have Casual Sex

A majority of single Christians are rejecting biblical doctrine by choosing to have sex before they are married. Sixty-one percent of self-identified Christian singles who answered a recent ChristianMingle survey said they are willing to have casual sex without being in love, while only 11 percent said they are waiting to have sex until they are married.

…But despite this realization, after Lindsey moved to New York, she did not abide by this new sexual ethic. Instead, she entered and exited relationships frequently, often sleeping with the men she was dating.

“Even though I knew it was wrong, I continued to have sex outside of marriage,” Lindsey told The Christian Post. “Why? Because when you’re single you don’t want to be lonely.”

“I was the girl that broke up with one boyfriend and had another one on speed-dial—that afternoon I’d already be going out with somebody else. I kept a boyfriend because I liked the attention,” she continued.

For Lindsey, her behavior was not simply a result of her conforming to the sexual values of her non-Christian peers. Instead, she had friends from church with similar sexual ethics and even dated and became sexually involved with a man who was serving at the same church that she was.

“We all went to the church. We were hypocrites. We said we loved the Lord but we ignored the scriptures that said that fornication is a sin,” said Lindsey.

Lindsey eventually cut off all people that had been a part of that lifestyle. Several years ago she got married and moved to Atlanta, where, now 31, she is the founder and CEO of Pinky Promise, an organization that encourages single and married women to “rise above cultural pressures and to “stay determined to live for Christ regardless of their circumstances.”

So she’s a fornicator being used as an example of sexual purity now? LOL.

Why do Christians do this? You have actual, honest- to- God virgins who are over 30 and 40 years of age, but Christians rarely if ever seek them out for inspiration or interviews. Instead, they seek out people who engaged in fornication constantly, and ask them to serve as role models about sexual purity.

This odd situation is a topic I have addressed in older posts, including this link (“born again virgins”), this link, this link, or this link, How About Using Celibates as Role Models For Celibacy? (Oddity: Christians Holding Up Non-Virgins [Fornicators] As Being Experts or Positive Examples on Sexual Purity).

(Link): Christian Dating Culture (Part 2): Does Church Attendance Impact How Often You Have Sex?

Excerpts:

    • BY MORGAN LEE, CHRISTIAN POST REPORTER
    February 13, 2014

Christians who attend church and read the Bible at least three times a week are less likely to have sex outside of marriage than those who do not engage in those religious practices.

In a 2012 study of Millenial Christians by the National Association of Evangelicals and Grey Matter Research, only respondents who attended worship services at least once a month were considered. Of the 1,007 polled by NEA and GMR, only 44 percent of unmarried Evangelicals ages 18-29 had had sex.

In contrast, in a ChristianMingle study released in January, only 50 percent of female Christians and 39 percent of Christian males said that they went to church at least once a month. Of the 716 Christians surveyed, 90 percent of them said they would be comfortable with premarital sex and 61 percent without any strings attached.

… Mark Regenerus, an associate professor of sociology at the University of Texas at Austin, concurred with the findings of this research.

“When you see greater religiosity, you’re more apt to have measured at the same time a more pronounced awareness of the sexual norms of Orthodox Christian communities and a person’s willingness to abide by them,” he told The Christian Post in an email.

Regenerus also pointed to the lack of institutions also promoting the church’s ethic of abstinence as one reason for the high numbers.

“It’s certainly true that unmarried Christian adults are more ‘at risk’ on sexual matters (attitudes, behaviors), because there are now few (and maybe no other) institutions that reinforce Christian sexual ideals today. And there are more unmarried Christian adults too. So it’s a recipe for some cultural clash over sex, for sure,” he wrote.

Daniel Weiss, the founder and president of The Brushfires Foundation, whose organization exists to help “people discover and live out God”s design for sexuality and relationships,” said that the Church must wake up to the fact that it is not the primary influencer of many Christian young people’s sexual ethics.

(Link): Christian Dating Culture (Part 3): Women Struggle in Dating Scene That Expects Openness to Premarital Sex

Excerpts:

    • BY MORGAN LEE, CHRISTIAN POST REPORTER
    February 14, 2014

Evidence suggests that Christians are increasingly tolerant of casual sex, but what does the dating scene look like for those who are choosing not to engage in premarital sex?

A ChristianMingle poll released last month suggests that Christians are increasingly open to having sex outside of marriage. Sixty-one percent of the 716 Christians surveyed said they would be willing to have sex without any strings attached. Only 11 percent indicated they would be willing to wait until marriage.

To get a sense of what the dating landscape looks like for Christian women who are unwilling to treat sex casually, The Christian Post talked with three women who shared how they feel their moral convictions are treated by men and the culture at large.

Sexual ethics of Christian men

Several years ago Lisa Anderson signed up for online dating.

Anderson, 42, who heads Boundless, Focus on the Family’s ministry to singles and young adults, and is single herself (“I am the true 40-year-old virgin” she laughs,) decided to be upfront with potential boyfriends about where her sexual ethics lay.

“As I got to know these guys, I think they sensed pretty early on that I was not going to go there, so I think that that probably ended it. It was never a situation where we’re together and that’s going to go too far so I stopped it,” Anderson told CP.

Yet she was surprised that many of the Christian men on online dating sites openly admitted that they expected sex in a relationship.

Continue reading “Links About Sex Week / Male Modesty & Male Shaming / Online Dating Scammers / Female Sexuality / Rampant Pre Marital Sex Among Christians / Single Christian Women Feel Pressured to Fornicate In Dating / other topics (Link Dump)”

Mature Christians Need to Stop Allowing the Under 30 Crowd to Direct the Entire State of Christian Affairs

Mature Christians Need to Stop Allowing the Under 30 Crowd to Direct the Entire State of Christian Affairs

I remember being in my twenties seeing articles appear in the paper about how Christians over 30 were freaked out or worried about Christians in their twenties and younger. I did not understand this mindset then (when I was a teen and in my twenties), and I don’t understand it now.

If you are someone reading this in 2014 who is currently under the age of 30, this blog post might piss you off. Welcome to the club, because I am already there now.

If you are in your twenties as you read this now (2014) and feel offended by it, please book mark this page, save it, and re-visit it when you are 40 or 50 years of age, and you will probably have a change of heart when you are older.

It’s hard to see and understand when you are under the age of 35, but once you’re past 35, you really start to notice what I’m writing about in this post.

I have written before about American Christianity’s fixation on youth, specifically, today’s “Millennials.”

I have a blog post where I was for a time keeping track of all the “Oh noes, the youth be leavin’ the church, how can we stop this travesty” type stories I kept coming across.

It’s located here:
(Link): (Ageism): Links about the never ending obsession with why the kids are bailing on church (one stop thread)

What just clicked in my mind today after glancing over a headline on a Christian news site, the headline being something like, “Must one believe in a six day creation account to be a biblical inerrantist?,” was this:

Christians are allowing much of the state of Christian affairs today to be dictated by people who are under the age of 30, especially those who are under the age of 25. And this is not good.

Interestingly, this stupidity falls equally across the aisle from liberal Christians to conservative ones. Both liberal and conservative Christians get their knickers in a bunch over what teeny-boppers and college kids think about the faith, the Bible, and Jesus.

Both liberals and conservatives are oh- so- concerned and oh- so- sensitive about what the kids think today.

While churches continue to heap finances and resources on marriage and married couples, they also spend a great deal of time, money, and energy routinely twisting their hands in agony over how to appeal to 21 year old kids.

Why?

Jesus said your duty is to share the Gospel with every one. I don’t remember Jesus saying to obsess over only one demographic, how to get only the 21- year- olds in a church building every week, or how to respond to their questions about the faith and their spiritual struggles.

Continue reading “Mature Christians Need to Stop Allowing the Under 30 Crowd to Direct the Entire State of Christian Affairs”

Pat Robertson says ‘Virginity Has Nothing To Do With Marriage’ and Says (Paraphrasing) ‘Virginity Was Fine For Mary But Not Applicable For Any Other Christians’

Pat Robertson says ‘Virginity Has Nothing To Do With Marriage’ and Says (Paraphrasing) ‘Virginity Was Fine For Mary But Not Applicable For Any Other Christians’

This is the second or third time in the past year or so that Christian TV personality Pat Robertson has pretty much said that God or the Bible do not teach that Christians are to abstain from pre-marital sex.

Robertson tends to “gloss over” sexual sin committed by heterosexuals, as though it’s not a big deal, which makes it harder for hetero people who are still single and virgins in their 40s, such as me, to continue to hold on, to continue to find compelling reasons not to sleep around.

(But then, I’ve begun a slow drift away from the Christian faith the last couple years, so maybe some of this is not applicable to me, but it bothers me to see that it is impacting single people who are still squarely in the faith.)

I have noticed any time Robertson classifies homosexuality as sinful that left wing sites jump all over him, but they fall silent when he basically endorses hetero pre- marital sexual sin or writes it off as being a non-issue. (Nice double standard the liberals have there.)

I don’t see any Christian speakers or media personalities calling out Robertson on his anti- virginity views, and I have blogged about them before (like here: (Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”).

(Robertson also sometimes takes a lax view towards men who cheat on their wives, which is also troubling.)

You can watch / listen to the video under discussion in this post here:
(Link): ‘Bring It On’ – Robertson Answers Questions From Viewers – CBN site (broadcast Feb 11, 2014)
-That same video is also embedded at the bottom of this post, via You Tube-

The question (viewer letter) we are interested in for the purpose of this post is the third or fourth letter in the video.

The letter from the married woman to Robertson in the video reads:

    I met my husband in church at a time I was a virgin.

    He was divorced with two kids, having left his wife after she cheated on him. Within weeks, I was living with him and got pregnant by him.

    We have since married and have been together three years, but now I feel like I betrayed God because I didn’t marry a virgin, had pre-marital sex, and had a child out of wedlock.

    My husband and I get along great and never argue, but I feel like I should start over. Should I stay married, or leave him and become celibate?
    – Viewer

I notice that Pat gets these sorts of letters with regularity, about once every 3 – 4 months; someone will say they were a virgin but then slept around, or whatever, then married the guy, then want to know if God wants them to divorce the spouse.

How can people be so ignorant and naive? Two wrongs don’t make a right.

While I don’t believe that the Bible teaches a “permanence” view of marriage (e.g., I don’t believe the Bible teaches an abused woman has to stay with her abusive spouse forever), it does hold marriage in pretty high esteem – which means, you would be heaping sin on top of sin to divorce the dude just because you had pre-marital sex with him.

Anyway, Robertson’s response to her was to diminish virginity, as is his habit when people write to him with questions about virginity and celibacy. Why is Robertson not being called out for this unbiblical position? Why are other Christians remaining silent?

Here is Robertson’s reply (this is my paraphrase, it may not be word- for- word; the site does not provide a transcript, so I’m typing this as I am listening to the audio; emphasis added by me to the text):

    [Pat Robertson responding to woman’s letter]

    Wow. You know it’s amazing this guy is a Christian yet… this man, he’s married and is seducing a woman two weeks after he met her, he’s having sex with her. Within two weeks? [Or weeks?]

    He must have really put the move on you really heavy. You must have been pretty willing. All right, but.

    But the subject, the fact that you weren’t a virgin or he wasn’t a virgin has nothing to do with marriage.

    There’s nothing in the Bible that disqualifies somebody, ‘well you gotta marry and you weren’t a virgin.’ I don’t know anything in the Bible that talks about that.

    That was fine for Mary, she was a virgin, but she was… what was in her was conceived by the Holy Spirit of God. All right.

    So you’ve been married, you have a child, you have what is apparently a Christian husband, the reason for his divorce was infidelity of the spouse, so…. that’s okay; and I see no reason why you should not live a happy married life.

    You’re doing OK together, so rejoice in what you have. Don’t be coming up with all these spurious problems.

    I mean you now… so far, so good.

    You made some mistakes, you did something wrong, but you have rectified that and now you’re living according to God’s law, so enjoy.

    Forgive yourself, God will forgive you, it’s over, no you don’t want a divorce and start all over again, that makes no sense at all.

True enough, the Bible does not say that non-virgins are not “marriage material,” but, the Bible does make a case for virginity in being the expectation for singles, in passages that discuss that the marriage bed should not be defiled, the penalty for fornication in the Old Testament was stoning to death (which indicates God is not fine with people having pre-marital sex, only that the penalty changed in the New Testament), and the Bible says if one cannot control one’s sexual passions, one should try to get married – which suggests having sex prior to marriage is frowned upon by God.

In other words, the Bible may not declare “non virgins are not marriagable” but the assumption still seems to be, “followers of Christ are to remain virgins until marriage.”

It’s rather disingenuous, therefore, for Robertson and other Christians to teach, in a round about way, that virginity is not a “requirement” for marriage for Christians – because it still is.

Fornication is a forgivable sin, yes, but still remains a sin never-the-less, and no matter how many fornicators feel shamed, guilty, or dirty over that knowledge.

The Bible may not “disqualify” a fornicator from marriage and forbid virgins from marrying non-virgins, but the Bible still teaches that Christians are to remain virgins until marriage.

Your shame or guilt feelings do not negate that the Bible classifies some behavior as sinful.

Perhaps one of the oddest views Robertson spouts in the video is where he seems to imply that virginity- until- marriage was a quality and discipline and state of being which God expected only of Mary (who was betrothed to Joseph) and no other human before or since; that is simply not biblical.

There ARE Christian adults, who are over 30, 40, and older, who are still virgins, who have never married – there are also some adult, divorced Christians who are staying celibate after they have divorced.

How do you suppose it makes such Christians feel to be surrounded by a Christian culture that just shrugs its shoulders about pre- or extra-marital sex, as if fornication is not a sin, and God winks at it?

I’ll tell you, and as I said above: it makes it harder and harder for adult celibates to hang in there.

What is the point in me staying sexually pure, when so many Christian talking heads say, “Nah, God does not REALLY expect you to abstain. If you slip up and fool around, just forgive yourself. God created you to be sexual. Just get over it and move on. Virginity is not for marriage.”

This type of rationale, meant to soothe the guilty feelings of fornicators, removes any incentive for an adult virgin to remain a virgin.

Doesn’t the Bible say don’t do or say anything that may cause a sister in Christ to stumble?

I’m not asking for Christian fornicators to be bashed in the heads with rocks by church- going mobs, but I’d like to see a little more accountability in this area, instead of an, “aw shucks, we all fornicate, don’t worry about it” lax attitude from Christians.

You see where Robertson said,

    That was fine for Mary, she was a virgin, but she was… what was in her was conceived by the Holy Spirit of God. All right.

I have noticed that the usual evangelical or conservative Christian response to singleness, virginity, and celibacy is to respect all three conditions ONLY when discussing certain Bible figures, such as Jesus or Paul, or in the case of Robertson today, with Mary.

As to those Christian adults who are singles and virgins in this day and age, there is no support for us; we are expected to fornicate.

(Or, in other branches of conservative and liberal Christian thought today, hetero singles are expected to abstain, but homosexual singles are not, which I have blogged about before as well).

Anyway, I blogged about that odd and frustrating phenomenon before, where virginity and singleness are respected only in regards to Jesus, Paul, and Mary, here:
(Link): Ever Notice That Christians Don’t Care About or Value Singleness, Unless Jesus Christ’s Singleness and Celibacy is Doubted or Called Into Question by Scholars?

Feb 11, 2014 video of Pat Robertson saying that virginity is not for marriage, and only for Mary (Mother of Jesus):


——————————–
Related posts, this blog:

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”

(Link): Christian Preacher Admits He Won’t Preach About Sexuality For Fear It May Offend Sexual Sinners

(Link): Sometimes Shame Guilt and Hurt Feelings Over Sexual Sins Is a Good Thing – but – Emergents, Liberals Who Are Into Virgin and Celibate Shaming

(Link): Biblical Balance in Teaching About Sexual Sin – don’t white wash and downplay sexual sin, but don’t continually beat people up over it

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity – Christians Attack and Criticize Virginity Sexual Purity Celibacy / Virginity Sexual Purity Not An Idol

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Early Marriage Position Advocates A Low View of Celibacy and Virginity and Adult Singleness – another example: Justin Deeter Blog about Early Marriage

(Link): Virgin – and Celibate – Shaming : Christian Double Standards – Homosexuals Vs Hetero Singles – Concerning Thabiti Anyabwile and Gag Reflexes

(Link): Liberty Counsel Fears Prom, Losing Freedom To Be Abstinent Before Marriage – their marketing has been jeered by ex Christians, atheists, liberal Christians, and secular left wingers / Re: Day of Purity Campaign

(Link): Preacher Mark Driscoll Basically Says No, Single Christian Males Cannot or Should Not Serve as Preachers / in Leadership Positions – Attempts to Justify Unbiblical, Anti Singleness Christian Bias, Has Incorrect and Unbiblical Views about Celibacy

(Link): I thought Christians “worshipped” virginity? Guess not: TLW (True Love Waits) Spokesman Says TLW Will NOT “Elevate Virginity” – Life Way to Relaunch “True Love Waits” Campaign

(Link): Where Are America’s Virgins? Discouraging the Virtuous / Sex and Never Married Single Christians / Virginity Virgin by Julia Duin

(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re: Celibacy

(Link): Why So Much Fornication – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): Joshua Rogers of Boundless / Focus on the Family Attacks Biblical Teaching of Virginity Until Marriage

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming

(Link): Famous Historical Christian Figure Expects Everyone To Fail At Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

Alan Jackson Asks, Who’s Cheatin’ Who? ~ Music Interlude! ~ Selection of Music About Married People Who Have Affairs

Alan Jackson Asks, Who’s Cheatin’ Who? ~ Music Interlude! ~ Selection of Music About Married People Who Have Affairs

I have presented musical interludes on the blog before, such as…

Now, a new twist: songs about people who have affairs with each other. Because, as you know if you’ve been on this blog before, Christians live in this Fantasy World where married couples never fall prey to sexual vices, sexual sin, or sexual temptation, only Un-married people do.

Presenting: Alan Jackson singing “Who’s Cheatin’ Who?”

— VIDEO IS BELOW —-

(Link): LYRICS to Who’s Cheatin Who
Excerpts:

    I thought I knew her well
    I really couldn’t tell
    That she had another lover on her mind
    You see it felt so right
    When she held me tight
    How could I be so blind

    But still you wonder
    Who’s cheatin’ who
    Who’s being true
    And who don’t even care anymore
    It makes you wonder
    Who’s doin’ right with someone tonight
    Who’s car is parked next door

    A heart is on the line
    Each and every time
    Love is stolen in the shadows of the night
    Though it’s wrong all along
    It keeps goin’ on
    As long as you keep in outta sight

You Tube link: Alan Jackson- Who’s Cheatin Who (posted by kanenanite3)

Back up link if the video (posted by kanenanite3) gets pulled:

(Link): Who’s Cheatin’ who by Alan Jackson (hosted by Drax Videos)

♫ ♫ ♫ Alan Jackson singing “Who’s Cheatin’ Who?” ♫ ♫ ♫

➡ Yes, married people are sinners. Some married people are guilty of SEXUAL SIN even WITHIN MARRIAGE.

MARRIED PEOPLE USE PORN.
MARRIED PEOPLE HAVE AFFAIRS.
MARRIED PEOPLE FONDLE CHILDREN.
MARRIED PEOPLE HAVE AFFAIRS.
MARRIED PEOPLE SOLICIT PROSTITUTES.

➡ (Link): Marriage Does Not Make People More Loving Mature Godly Ethical Caring or Responsible (One Stop Thread) Confronting Refuting Correcting Rebutting Christian Propaganda Arguments Stereotypes About Marriage Married Matrimony

➡ — SEXLESS MARRIAGES —

By the way, while some married folk are gettin’ sex from all the wrong people (not their spouse), some ain’t gettin’ ANY SEX AT ALL.

➡ (Link): Posts on this blog with examples of Sexless Marriages

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

Alan Jackson singing “Who’s Cheatin’ Who?”

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

Mefferd Guest Focus on the Family Spokesperson Stanton Incredulous that Preachers Push Kids To Marry Early

Mefferd Guest Incredulous that Preachers Push Kids To Marry Early

I will be tweeting a link to this to Janet Mefferd.

Mrs. Mefferd (if she is reading this at all!), I realize this post is way long.

However, I would appreciate it if you would read it and really take to heart and consider what it is saying, and maybe take the time to look over the links to other materials I’ve provided. The evangelical and Baptist and Reformed churches are alienating and hurting a lot of celibate, single adults.

And for anyone else reading, today, I am blogging about this:
(Link): (Janet Mefferd Show) Hour 2- Glenn Stanton from Focus on the Family discusses divorce rates. AUDIO.

Today, at least 44% of the American adult population is single [Sept 2016 update: as of 2014, according to various news sources, that figure is now 51% or higher]. This includes a big chunk of Christian women over 30, 40 who would like to marry, but marriage is not happening for them.

Evangelicals, however, continue to ignore these singles to harp on (nuclear) family, marriage, and babies.

And yes, Evangelicals are pushing for Early Marriage. They are not helping the over-30 singles, but ignoring them and advising 18 year olds to marry now.

I sent Janet Mefferd (Christian radio show host) an e-mail several months ago alerting her to some of the un-biblical, strange, and insulting views of adult, celibate, Christian singles that are held and taught by married Christians – even by famous Christians, such as Southern Baptist Al Mohler – but I got no reply from her.

I have no idea if Mrs. Mefferd read my e-mail or saw it. I used the “contact form” at her site to send her the message.

I don’t always agree with Mrs. Mefferd on all issues, but I do like her on a personal level, I sometimes feel a bit grouchy with her if I feel she’s falling into the “family idolatry” trap that is so pervasive among evangelicals and other Christians…
But I do appreciate that Mefferd thinks Christians should actually expect other self professing believers to walk the Christian walk.

Because when it comes to virginity and sexual purity – though I myself am an ACTUAL virgin past my 40s (since I have not married) – I am now seeing a Christian culture that runs from ‘Laissez-faire’ on sexual ethics to bashing and attacking the concept of virginity and adult virgins themselves. Here are just a link or two (more links at end of this post):

    (Link):

No Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity – Christians Attack and Criticize Virginity Sexual Purity Celibacy

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming

One of several reasons I am drifting towards agnosticism after having been a devout Christian since youth has to do with this very topic: Christians being hypocrites, especially on these sexual issues.

Here I stayed a virgin into adulthood, trying to stay true to the faith and the Bible’s teachings (that is, I am a LITERAL virgin, not one of those fornicators who calls herself a “born again” or “spiritual” or “secondary” virgin, puh-leaze).

And instead of getting acknowledged for remaining sexually pure into middle age (notice that mothers in churches get carnations, they get recognized, on Mother’s Day, etc, what do virgin, adult women get? Nothing, that’s what, no sermons, no flowers, nothing), nor do I get support (emotional, practical, or financial support) from Christians during my celibate, adult singleness.

I am getting blamed and bashed for being a virgin past 40, or totally ignored (links about this below).

False teachings about celibacy, adult singleness, and sex abound in Christendom these days, even among conservative evangelicals, but not many Christians care or even notice.

Even when I alert other Christians to this information, they do not seem to care.

Evangelical, Reformed, Fundamentalist, and Baptist Christians do NOT esteem virginity or celibacy for anyone who is over 25 years of age but actually attack both concepts. (Keep reading, I explain more below, with links to proof.)

In this audio (see link to audio below), where Janet Mefferd interviews Stanton of Focus on the Family, Stanton disputes some recent findings by some study about divorce rates being higher among Protestant Christians.

(I blogged about that study a few days ago, (Link): here).

In this interview with Mefferd, Stanton says the researchers concluded that one reason for higher divorce rates among Protestant Christians is that Preachers encourage young people to marry early (ie, very young).

Stanton laughed this claim off and said, “I have never heard such a thing, ha ha ha.”

(Link): (Janet Mefferd Show) Hour 2- Glenn Stanton from Focus on the Family discusses divorce rates. AUDIO.

But, the claim is TRUE.

Just about a week ago, this young preacher named Deeter wrote a post encouraging people to marry young, and I wrote this rebuttal:

    (Link):

Christian Early Marriage Position Advocates A Low View of Celibacy and Virginity and Adult Singleness – another example: Justin Deeter Blog about Early Marriage

Yes, some preachers and branches of Christianity are most certainly advocating Early Marriage, to the point it has been editorialized about on “Christianity Today,” see:

    (Link):

A Case Against Early Marriage by Ashley Moore (editorial from Christianity Today, excerpts on my blog)

Other Christians, some of whom are authors, have commented on the phenomenon of preachers and churches advocating Early Marriage.
Here are some examples (some of these pages are by me):

    (Link):

A Response by (Christian author) Colon to (Christian) Regnerus Re: Misguided Early Marriage Propaganda

(Link): Marrying Young – from “Stuff Christian Culture Likes,” by Stephanie Drury
– Drury is, if I understand correctly, a former conservative evangelical, a “preacher’s kid,” who is now very liberal in her views of Christianity, but even she picked up on the “Early Marriage” trend among Christians

(Link): The Nauseating Push by Evangelicals for Early Marriage
(blog post by me, I think not too long after I began noticing the trend)

Even right wing, Non Christians have jumped on the “kids should marry young” band wagon:
(Link): Secular Media Also Pushing Early Marriage

The reason some pastors are advocating Early Marriage is that they see high rates of fornication going on among self professing evangelical youth.

Evangelicals, Reformed, Baptists, and other sorts of Christians, assume if they can get a teen Christian to marry at age 21, that pre marital sex will not be an issue, and that the rates or pre-marital sex among youth can be lowered.

Continue reading “Mefferd Guest Focus on the Family Spokesperson Stanton Incredulous that Preachers Push Kids To Marry Early”

Southern Baptists (who don’t TRULY support sexual purity) Announce 2014 Sex Summit

Southern Baptists (who don’t TRULY support sexual purity) Announce 2014 Sex Summit

I was watching a Christian TV show that said there is an upcoming Sex Summit planned.

I have found several links about the event (which I have put in the post much farther below).

I assume they mean Christians are going to gather at this thing to talk about how to combat porn and what not.

One wonders if all spokes persons at this shin dig will be married Christians who are having sex, or if they will actually come up with celibate adults who are over 30 to contribute to this thing, in any way?

I, a virgin who is over the age of 40, never married, don’t really appreciate being lectured to about sexual ethics and issues by a married guy who is banging his wife weekly and/or who is probably looking at porn (a lot of married preachers are porn addicts), or having affairs (another problem with a lot of married, Christian men, see this link for examples).

I am over 40 and have stayed a virgin this long without any support from Christians, preachers, churches, or Southern Baptists.

These Baptist jack holes are NOT sources of authority on sex or sexual purity, as they do NOT support Christians who are celibate and single over the age of 25 – 30, and so, they should shut up about these topics.

Until or unless a church or denomination is ready to offer regular and concrete, emotional, spiritual, and financial support to celibate adults who are over 30, they need to shut up about the evils of fornication and all these related topics – S.T.F.U.

Southern Baptists and many other denominations and churches do NOT support sexual purity or virginity, in that they do nothing to support celibate adults, those who are actually living celibate lifestyles.

If anything, we celibate adults get shamed by other Christians for being virgins, for NOT being married and for not procreating.

We older virgins are told by Southern Baptists and other Christians that we are not as mature as married parents, we are suspected of being homosexual, and receive all manner of other put downs and negative assumptions.

Mature celibates get lectured by Christians on their stupid blogs or pod casts that we are “prideful” about being virgins (when we are no such thing).

Southern Baptists, Reformed, Fundamentalists, and Evangelicals ignore adult,celibate adults and at that to support marriage and married couples. They have turned marriage and having children into IDOLS.

You cannot be consistent and say on the one hand you think sex is for marriage only, but then turn around and tell fornicators that their sexual sin is no big deal, and that people who are over 30 and still virgins, are “prideful,” or are “fetishizing virginity.”

You can’t have it both ways, but that is exactly what Southern Baptists and other conservative Christians are doing on topics pertaining to sex.

Baptists and other conservative Christians say from one side of their mouth that you should stay a virgin (until you marry), but when you are still single and still a virgin at age 30 or older, they shame you and insult you for being a virgin.

Married couples, yes, even Christian ones, engage in sexual sin.

Will this Baptist-hosted sex summit be mentioning the staggering numbers of married Christian men who admit to being pornography addicts (see examples)?

Will the summit discuss married preachers who have affairs, fondle children, and who use prostitutes (see examples and see more examples)?

Here’s a link or two about the sex summit:

(Link): Southern Baptist Leaders to Host Sex Summit

I have not yet read that page.

I’m going to guess that either:

1. There will be lip service paid to virginity and sexual purity by the Baptists in these articles (but what goes un-said is that they only support virginity for people under the age of 25; they expect everyone over 25 to fornicate, so they tend to look the other way when adult singles fornicate);

or,

2. Somewhere, their mission statement will say they are trying to downplay the importance of virginity / sexual purity, so as not to cause offense to, or shamed feelings among, fornicators.

What a freaking joke.

Notice that, according to the reports below, the Southern Baptists will only be addressing “Teen sex.” There is no support or mention of adult celibates (i.e., post age 30 celibates / sexuality). None.

This only further proves my point that Christians only believe in virginity and sexual purity for people under the age of 20 / 25.

To any teens reading this, you might as well have sex prior to age 25, since once you get to age 25 and after, Baptists no longer care if you’re having sex, how often, and with whom (as long as it is hetero fornication).

If Baptists do address fornication, they are sure to reassure the adult (past age 25) fornicators that Jesus loves them anyhow, and they are not saved by their virginity (sexual sin is downplayed).

So really, with this Baptist, evangelical, fundamentalist, and Reformed attitude that sexual sin is no biggie past your mid 20s, I don’t see why it’s so problematic for the under mid 20s set, as in teenagers. (Barring the naive nature of teens, which makes them dupes and easy prey for sexual predators.)

Here are excerpts from the page:

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. January 27, 2014 (AP)

    Southern Baptist Convention leaders are hosting a summit in Nashville that will focus on sex.

    The topics will range from pornography, teen sex, homosexuality and how pastors can talk to their congregations about human sexuality.

    Russell Moore, Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission president for the Southern Baptist Convention, says the summit’s theme is a timely one.

    Panel topics include discussions on the gospel and homosexuality and the gospel and ministry in a sex-saturated world.

    The sessions will also focus on how the “gospel shapes a person’s sexual identity, redeems sexual desire and sets free people held captive by sin.”

    The summit will be held from April 21-23. The event’s main sessions will be streamed live on the Web for people who cannot attend.

Russell Moore does NOT support sexual purity or virginity, see this post:

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

Continue reading “Southern Baptists (who don’t TRULY support sexual purity) Announce 2014 Sex Summit”

Christians Are Following Secular Trends in Premarital Sex, Cohabitation Outside of Marriage, Says Dating Site Survey (survey/article)

Christians Are Following Secular Trends in Premarital Sex, Cohabitation Outside of Marriage, Says Dating Site Survey (survey/article)

“Christians Are Following Secular Trends in Premarital Sex, Cohabitation Outside of Marriage, Says Dating Site Survey”

You don’t say! *feigned shock*

Not only are many Christians no different from Non Christians in the divorce, shacking up, and pre-marital sex departments, but many Christians today are telling the wider Christian culture to stop preaching about sexual purity and virginity, while preachers are admitting that they don’t want to preach about or against sexual sin, since it may offend or hurt the feelings of folks in the pews, some of whom have engaged in sexual sin.

(Link): Christians Are Following Secular Trends in Premarital Sex, Cohabitation Outside of Marriage, Says Dating Site Survey

Here is a long excerpt (if you want the rest, you can you the link above):

    BY TYLER O’NEIL , CP REPORTER
    January 27, 2014|8:45 am

    A new study on Christian attitudes toward dating and marriage reveals a broad acceptance for cohabitation, premarital sex and a rejection of traditional gender roles. Experts believe that many Christians are following cultural trends over scripture when it comes to sex and marriage.

    “Christians are perhaps more influenced by the culture than they are by the teachings of scripture or the church,” Peter Sprigg, senior fellow for policy studies at the Family Research Council, told The Christian Post in an interview on Friday.

    According to the “2014 State of Dating in America” report published by Christian Mingle and JDate, 61 percent of Christians said they would have sex before marriage.

    Fifty-six percent said that it’s appropriate to move in with someone after dating for a time between six months and two years.

    Fifty-Nine percent said it doesn’t matter who the primary breadwinner of the family is.

    And 34 percent responded that while it would be nice to marry someone of the same faith, it’s not required.

    Interpreting this data, Sprigg shared his warning to Christians about dating sites. “Those who are active, committed Christians who believe in biblical values need to be cautious in using sites like Christian Mingle and not assume that others on the site share their values.”

    Rachel Sussmann, a licensed psychotherapist and relationship expert, agreed with Sprigg that even those who consider themselves strong Christians make unbiblical decisions about sex.

    “Oftentimes couples find this as something personal between the two of them,” Sussman explained. “Even if the church frowns on this behavior, they take it upon themselves to make an educated decision between the two of them.”

    Sussmann paraphrased a common expression she hears from religious patients: “I practice what the church teaches me, but this is something personal between me and my partner.” The therapist commented that, in many ways, churches are “fighting an uphill battle because this is nature.”

    According to Sprigg, “there may be a weakness on the part of churches” that explains the gap between sexual behavior and biblical standards. He described “a vicious circle,” where a pastor welcomes people regardless of their past sins, and then fails to preach biblical morality due to a fear of being considered too harsh.

    “I would encourage pastors to speak bluntly and boldly about sexuality and a biblical view of sexuality and marriage,” Sprigg declared. He urged religious leaders to “not shy away from challenging the values of the culture.”

    Continue reading “Christians Are Following Secular Trends in Premarital Sex, Cohabitation Outside of Marriage, Says Dating Site Survey (survey/article)”

Slut Shaming and Virgin Shaming and Secular and Christian Culture – Dirty Water / Used Chewing Gum and the CDC’s Warnings – I guess the CDC is a bunch of slut shamers ?

Slut Shaming and Secular and Christian Culture – Dirty Water / Used Chewing Gum and the CDC’s Warnings – I guess the CDC is a bunch of slut shamers ?

✤ This is a post about consensual sex only, not about sexual abuse, human sexual trafficking, or rape. ✤

Please see my previous posts about “slut shaming” and “virgin shaming.”

Sometimes secular culture engages in “slut shaming” and your secular feminist bloggers rant against it. That is true enough.

I take it that any and all expressions of disagreement with another person’s or group of person’s sexual behavior and choices is considered wrong, judgmental, and hence, “slut shaming.”

Nobody is supposed to stand for any limitations at all on any sort of sexual behavior.

We’re supposed to live in this wacky, sexual free for all society, where we look the other way, and remain in denial that sexual actions can and sometimes do have physical and emotional consequences (not always, but sometimes).

I guess we might as well let NAMBLA have their way, and permit adult-child sex, or let the sicko zoophiles off their leashes and let them rape dogs and other animals.

Can’t have any slut shaming, because that entails having boundaries, decency, morality, and a willingness to speak up and say you disagree with someone else’s sexual proclivities, habits, or preferences – which also includes the ability to see that everyone has a right to have her own opinions and to voice them publicly without fear of reprisal.

Not only have secular feminists been crying out against “slut shaming” on their blogs the last few years, but Christian bloggers, have, in the last few years, also taken on a Christianized version of an anti-slut shaming stance, though they prefer to use the more wholesome, more biblical-sounding phrases such as “virginity fetish” or “sexual purity idolization” to get their hate on – their hatred of virginity and celibacy.

I’ve discussed in previous posts that slut shaming (or whatever term one wishes to use for it) may not be such a bad thing ((Link: Sometimes Shame Guilt and Hurt Feelings Over Sexual Sins Is a Good Thing – but – Emergents, Liberals Who Are Into Virgin and Celibate Shaming).

Another angle that crosses my mind comes via those slut shamers -of all slut shamers- the secular slut shamers, the CDC (Centers For Disease Control).

I remember particularly in the 1980s, when HIV and AIDS were in the news nightly, that secular medical bodies and individuals would go on television news shows, or say in news paper interviews, to tell the public to remember that having sex is risky business.

These health worker professionals would tell you that when you have sex with one person, you weren’t really having sex with just that one person, but with every person that person had ever have sex with.

This is one reason why, when a guy (or woman) is diagnosed with some sexually transmitted creeping crud, that the doctor or CDC (or whatever other health-related, American, investigative department) demands that he give them a list of every person he has slept with.

These authorities then begin calling those individuals on the list to inquire as to who all those individuals have slept with, and so on and so forth, because they are trying to stop the spread of the creeping crud.

I think when you are 13 years old and your Christian speaker at your high school or Sunday School Class drops an ounce of dirt in a glass of clean water (or refers to used chewing gum), that is one concept they are trying to convey to you – you are not only sleeping with that one person but with anyone that person slept with before you, and you may suffer some mental or physical issues as a result.

Liberals, secular feminists, and militant homosexual rights activitsts began yelling and screaming about wanting five year old children in public schools to witness demonstrations of condoms put on cucumbers in classrooms. (That started around the 1980s or 1990s.)

Sometimes, the CDC and other medical groups issue updates and warnings about STDS (or STIs, Sexually transmitted infections, as some now call them).

Here’s an example from the New York Times, 2007:
(Link): Sex Diseases Still Rising; Chlamydia Is Leader

Here are some excerpts:

    • By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN
    Published: November 14, 2007

The incidence of gonorrhea, which had declined sharply, has risen in the last two years in this country while the number of chlamydia and syphilis cases continue to rise, federal health officials said yesterday.

Chlamydia and gonorrhea are the two most common diseases among those doctors must report in the United States. And the 1,030,911 cases of chlamydia in 2006 are the highest ever recorded for any nationally reported disease in any year, the officials said in releasing their annual report on sexually transmitted diseases. They said that because of underreporting, a more accurate estimate is 2.8 million new chlamydia cases annually.

So I guess all these university researchers, CDC employees, and doctors reporting on the spread and dangers of sexually transmitted diseases are just a bunch of “slut shamers” who are into “slut shaming,” huh?

Continue reading “Slut Shaming and Virgin Shaming and Secular and Christian Culture – Dirty Water / Used Chewing Gum and the CDC’s Warnings – I guess the CDC is a bunch of slut shamers ?”

Sometimes the Bible is Clear – Regarding Rachel Held Evan’s Post

Sometimes the Bible is Clear – Regarding Rachel Held Evan’s Post

Rachel Held Evans recently wrote this post:
(Link): The Bible was ‘Clear’

Her position is that the Bible is not always clear as Christians think or say or believe it to be.

Sometimes I agree with Mrs. Evans, sometimes I don’t. This is one of those “in between” times where I am sympathetic to her overall point but feel she’s in danger of tipping over, too.

Let me start with giving you an excerpt from her post that she published last night or today, so you can see what her motives are:

    In 1982:
    “The Bible clearly teaches, starting in the tenth chapter of Genesis and going all the way through, that God has put differences among people on the earth to keep the earth divided.” – Bob Jones III, defending Bob Jones University’s policy banning interracial dating/marriage. The policy was changed in 2000.

Mrs. Evans goes on to list several more examples, where some Christian or another from 100 or more years ago wrote a statement that most Christians today would likely agree is wrong, scientifically incorrect, or racist, or what have you, a comment that said Christian insisted the Bible was “clear on.”

As someone who was raised in a home and church that taught gender complementarianism, and I used to be gender complmenetarian myself but am no longer one, I can see how, yes, sometimes a person can believe the Bible is very clear on a topic, even though there may be other Bible verses or passages that negate or contradict one’s views.

For example, a lot of Christian gender complmentarians only pay attention to two or three verses in the New Testament – the ones that talk about a woman being silent in church, the one where Paul says he does not permit a woman to teach, and so on – and not only do gender complementarians ignore key words within such favored verses, but they have a nasty tendency to ignore the examples that contradict their views – such as the existence of Junia the female apostle in the New Testament; Deborah, who was a leader over the nation Israel; and that Paul elsewhere says that women may prophesy – which requires women to open their mouth and speak, and not remain silent in church, or anywhere else.

Your average gender complementarian, however, will bang a fist on a desk and insist vehemently that the Bible is abundantly clear that no woman may ever teach, lead, or be a preacher or apostle, despite the fact the Bible contains examples of women doing those very things, and with God’s approval.

(For more on those particular gender complementarian issues, please see:
(Link): LOST IN TRANSLATION Part 2 – A Look at 1 Timothy 2:12-15 (off site link; hosted on Junia Project)
(Link): Why I’m an Egalitarian (off site link) )

Contrary to what gender complementarians think, the Bible is not clear or cut- and- dried, once- for- all about whether women can and should be preachers and so on.

I think Christians such as Evans need to be equally aware that it can be problematic and sloppy, however, to make the Bible out to be completely fuzzy and vague on any and all topics, as though the entirety of the Bible is up for grabs and can be defined in any old way.

That the Bible can be hard to understand on some points is true does not mean that one cannot figure out what God thinks or believes about other topics.

When people approach the Bible with a pet doctrine in mind, or with an agenda, they will not take the biblical text for what it really says, but attempt to find “loop holes” that negate the verses they do not like, or to give alternate interpretations that fit their pre-made conclusions of what they WISH the text said.

Continue reading “Sometimes the Bible is Clear – Regarding Rachel Held Evan’s Post”