Still Qualified to Lead? Rev. Ron Carpenter, Mired in Marital Woes, Refuses to Quit Pulpit (article); Churches Hypocritical in Barring Celibate Singles from Leadership/Preaching but Allowing Married Pastors With Sin to Continue

Still Qualified to Lead? Rev. Ron Carpenter, Mired in Marital Woes, Refuses to Quit Pulpit; Pastor’s Integrity ‘100 Percent Intact,’ Says Spokesman

❈❈ I have some comments to make below this excerpt: ❈❈

(Link): Still Qualified to Lead? Ron Carpenter, Mired in Marital Woes, Refuses to Quit Pulpit; Pastor’s Integrity ‘100 Percent Intact,’ Says Spokesman

    Ron Carpenter, senior pastor of the 19,000-member Redemption World Outreach Center in Greenville, S.C., revealed last October that his marriage has been rocked by his wife’s infidelity for the past 10 years, and attributed the turmoil to her unspecified “sickness.”

    Yet, Pastor Ron, as the RWOC family calls him, has no intention of stepping down from the pulpit, not even briefly, because “his integrity [is] 100 percent intact,” according to the executive director of the megachurch.

    … “He doesn’t plan on stepping down,” repeated Hayes. “He is taking the time, spending lots of time with God and advisors and counselors but doesn’t plan on taking any time off. He believes God has got a relevant word for him and God is using all of this situation, and he’s sharing it with the congregation and they seem to be embracing it.”

    … Redemption World Outreach Center congregants appeared overwhelmed when they heard on Jan. 5 that Carpenter had changed his previously declared “solid” position on avoiding reconciliation with his wife.

It is extremely hypocritical that many evangelical, Reformed, Fundamentalist, and Baptist churches will not allow un-married men or women to preach or lead, but will usually permit married men who have copped to having child porn habits, using prostitutes, or extra marital affairs, to continue in the pulpit.

Sometimes, there are exceptions, such as:
(Link): Arizona Preacher Resigns After Being Caught in Extra Marital Affairs

In that particular story, if I remember rightly, his church elders and deacons asked him to resign when they caught wind of his affairs.

Most churches I read about, instead, circle the wagons around the preacher caught in the affair. Some only temporarily give the preacher the boot for several months, but then permit him to come back on board later on; it’s business as usual.

In this case, it’s the preacher’s wife who was having affairs. Yes, it was Carpenter’s wife who was involved in adultery, not Carpenter himself.

    Side note:

    There goes the Christian propaganda that:

    1. married people never sexually sin; and

    2. married women are not interested in sex / single women are over sexed harlots and home wreckers.

The reason why I’m still not keen on this Carpenter guy being permitted to return to the pulpit of his church, despite the fact it was his wife who sinned and not him, is that churches who exclude singles from leading and preaching do so on a very, too-narrow interpretation of biblical passages that mention church leaders being married to one woman and parents to children

(note the plural of children in such verses; this would mean a man with only ONE child would not be qualified, if sticking to a very wooden, narrow interpretation).

I have read testimonies in blogs, forums, and in books by and for Christian singles, of married people who, once their spouse died, were forced by their churches to resign as preacher, Sunday School teacher, or whatever position they held, because their churches did not approve of an un-married person (even one widowed) being in any sort of leadership position.

One such gentlemen told the interviewer he had been a preacher of his church for 15 – 25 years (I don’t recall the details, but he acted as preacher of the same church for a long time), who was asked to step down once his wife passed away. When he applied to act as a Sunday School teacher for adult singles, they said no; they insisted upon having a married person fill that role.

Note that such churches are enacting rules that the Bible does not even lay down; the Bible does not limit preaching, teaching, or leadership roles to only married individuals, or married couples who have children. Some Christians totally misapply passages such as Titus 1: 6 and artificially narrow requirements.

In other words, even before I became interested in the subject of Christian singlehood, I never once understood this verse…

    An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. (Titus 1:6)

…to mean that the ONLY type of person qualified or permitted to fill the role HAS to be married with several children.

I only took passags such as Titus 1:6 to mean that the person in the running must be in self control and live a moral life, and IF the person in question happens to be married, then he must not have out of control children, etc.

It never occurred to me to read such passages as saying, “ONLY married persons may hold thus- and- so position,” and I remain baffled why other Christians continue to believe it does.

If churches are going to be this overly narrow and nit picky in how they dole out leadership roles, this narrow in how they interpret how and when marital status eliminates who is barred from holding certain roles, then, to be fair and consistent, they will have to be equally nit picky in applying and in woodenly literally interpreting verses about divorce, remarriage, and how a man with a cheating spouse, or a divorced one, may not preach any longer.

It is very hypocritical to bar celibate, hetero males (and females) from being preachers but to permit a married one with a cheating spouse to continue preaching.

Even if you are a celibate single – you are unmarried but NOT engaging in sex outside of marriage – whether you are a celibate never-married, celibate divorcee, celibate widower – most churches will still exclude YOU in favor of married persons who are guilty of sexual sin or whose partners are guilty of sexual sin.

If churches are going to excuse, justify, or overlook the sexual sins of married couples, to permit them to keep working in pastoral or leadership roles despite their sins, they doubly have no excuse to prohibit celibate, single adults from serving in those same roles.
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Related posts, this blog:

(Link): Christians and Churches Discriminate Against Unmarried People / Singles

(Link): Preacher Mark Driscoll Basically Says No, Single Christian Males Cannot or Should Not Serve as Preachers / in Leadership Positions – Attempts to Justify Unbiblical, Anti Singleness Christian Bias

(Link): Wife of Kinda Famous TV Preacher Guy [Ron Carpenter] Committed Multiple Affairs – He tells congregation at church service

Christians Not Only Accept Pre Marital Sex Among Adults But Are Also Now Accepting “Shacking Up” as The New Norm

Christians Not Only Accept Pre Marital Sex Among Adults But Are Also Now Accepting “Shacking Up” as The New Norm

I have blogged on here the past couple years of how morality in the American church has fallen so far, that fornication (pre-marital sex) is now pretty much accepted.

Now, being an actual virgin past the age of 25 or 30 (as opposed to being a “spiritual virgin” or “born again virgin”) is considered, by evangelicals, Neo Reformed, fundamentalists, Pentecostals, Non Demoninational members, and Baptists, to be weird or very rare.

Evangelicals and Baptists have no expectation that anyone can or will possess sexual self control and abstain from sex past one’s mid 20s.

Now, it looks like evangelicals and other types of Christians, are caving in to the new trend in secular society: couples living together without being married.

(Link): ‘Preachers of LA’ Puts Spotlight on ‘Shacking Up’ – Can Christian Couples Live Together Before Marriage?

Here is an excerpt, with further comments by me below this excerpt:

    BY NICOLA MENZIE , CHRISTIAN POST REPORTER
    December 4, 2013|3:35 pm

One topic in particular featured in the docu-series that elicited strong responses is “shacking up,” or the state of an unmarried couple living together as if they are husband and wife. The situation suggests that a shacking couple is a couple having sex, or facing the temptation to have sex. But is “shacking” even mentioned in the Bible?

In the Oct. 16 airing of episode 2 of “Preachers of L.A.” (“Acceptance”), gospel recording artist and former pastor Deitrick Haddon and his fiancée, Dominique dine with Bishop Ron Gibson and his wife, LaVette, for the purposes, according to Haddon, of getting wisdom from the long-time married couple.

Despite beginning amicably, the meeting quickly turns south as Bishop Gibson states that “a shaky suspect engagement is indicative of a shaky and suspect marriage.”

Cutting to the chase, Gibson asks Haddon, “Are you guys shacking?” Haddon, offended by Gibson’s question, declares that shacking up isn’t in the Bible.

The issue of intimacy involving the Haddons, who have since married, was overshadowed by the fact that Dominique was impregnated by Haddon before his divorce to his first wife was finalized. Haddon, 40, also appeared impatient in early episodes of “Preachers of L.A.” to have his wife, 29, and their two-year-old daughter living together with him under one roof, as opposed to Dominique and their child residing with her mother until the wedding ceremony.

(end quote)

I’m not exactly sure what a “bishop” is especially as opposed to a preacher, but at least the bishop guy was willing to lay it out there and point out to the shacked up couple that couples living together (suggesting sexual involvement) is a sin.

Most preachers today are reluctant to refer to sexual sin as sin; see for example my previous post:
(Link): Christian Preacher Admits He Won’t Preach About Sexuality For Fear It May Offend Sexual Sinners

I’ve noticed a disturbing trend among some Christians today – usually the liberals, feminists, and emergents – to redefine what sexual sin is, to criticize the practice of being a virgin until marriage, or to claim that the Bible is so murky and vague about what sexual sin is, that by golly, we all might as well have sex anytime, anywhere, and with whomever we want, because who is to say exactly how God feels about sex?

Which brings me to very good observations made by another writer in an editorial about the bruhaha over Phil Robertson’s (Duck Dynasty Star’s) comments about homosexuality (the most pertinent parts for my purposes are in bold face):

(Link): The Anus Monologues

    by Ann Coulter | Dec 31, 2013

… There’s absolutely no question but that Robertson accurately summarized biblical strictures.

But liberals [and feminist and emergent Christians] can’t grasp that God is not our imaginary friend, who says whatever we want Him to say, when we want Him to say it. (I promise you, except for venereal disease and eternal damnation, life would be a lot more fun if we were making it up as we went along.)

So they blamed Robertson for Holy Scripture. True, God created the universe and every living thing, but liberals think they can improve on His work.

Since Robertson’s interview appeared, I haven’t heard as much sophistical nonsense about the New Testament not condemning fornication since I was a teenager in the backseat of a car.

Continue reading “Christians Not Only Accept Pre Marital Sex Among Adults But Are Also Now Accepting “Shacking Up” as The New Norm”

Christian Preacher Admits He Won’t Preach About Sexuality / Sexual Sin For Fear It May Offend Sexual Sinners

Christian Preacher Admits He Won’t Preach About Sexuality For Fear It May Offend Sexual Sinners

Not that I’m surprised in today’s uber-forgivey Christian culture concerning sexual sins (seriously, I’ve said this before and will say it again: where the heck is all this “slut shaming” going on in churches that the Christian feminists keep going on about, because I see the reverse: I see Christians constantly downplaying sexual sin and shaming adults who are virgins).

I don’t think churches should obsess about homosexuality, but on the other hand, to have such a dismissive attitude as the preacher quoted in this article has is not a good direction, either.

The attitude of the preacher interviewed, who says he is reluctant to condemn sexual sin from the pulpit, is sort of,
Shucky darn, we can’t risk offending the feelings of fornicators, so we can’t be preaching against sexual sins from the pulpit, now can we? <– my reaction to that: 🙄 (oh puhleeze!)

I do not support beating people up relentlessly over sexual sin, but this other extreme of “la la la, who cares, it doesn’t matter, la la la” doesn’t cut it, either, and it’s an affront to Christian men and women who are virgins past the age of 30.

Inadvertently, such “easy forgvisim, refuse to call sexual sin for what it is” attitudes as on display with the preacher in the article below is another assault and affront to adult virginity.

(Link): Pastor Carl Lentz Will Not Preach on Sexuality From Pulpit; Refuses to ‘Ostracize People’

    • BY NICOLA MENZIE , CHRISTIAN POST REPORTER
    December 20, 2013|12:18 pm

Hillsong NYC Pastor Carl Lentz has made it clear that he will not take a public stance on social issues like homosexuality because, as he said during media appearances this week, that is not the example Jesus Christ models in the Bible.

When asked during an interview with Katie Couric on her self-titled daytime show if he felt that he had a moral imperative to speak publicly about “some of these more controversial issues,” Lentz said, “No, because we try to be like Jesus.”

He explained, “Very rarely did Jesus ever talk about morality or social issues. He was about the deeper things of the heart. Often people want to talk about behavior modification, and our church isn’t about that. … We’re about soul transformation. You start talking about some of the symptomatic stuff, that’s not what we’re about. We’re about talking to people about their heart and the condition of their soul, and some of that stuff out-works itself. But we’re not trying to change anybody because we can’t.”

…Host Ahmed Shihab-Eldin asked Lentz, 35, if same-sex couples were welcomed to attend the popular megachurch, which prompted the Pentecostal pastor to speak out against critics who insist that he needs to make a public stance on homosexuality and other social issues.

“Some media wants us to use our pulpit to have a soapbox for social issues,” said Lentz. “I don’t believe that’s our job.”

…Pointing to Jesus as his example for ministry, Lentz added, “You go look at what Jesus did, he was always talking about the heart of an individual and the soul of a person, not these symptomatic societal problems. People hate that, because a lot of churches are about what they’re against. We’re about what we’re for.

“When it comes to people’s sexuality, I don’t want to use a public forum to talk about private things. Because how in the world could you have a dialogue? How in the world can I hear your story? How in the world can someone have a question?”

… Asked if he was “in a position to support homosexual couples,” the married father said, it was not his job to be a judge and jury for others.

“If I sat down with a homosexual couple and they ask me what I thought about their relationship, I would tell them, and it would be at their table and it would be our business. But their situation is different than the next situation,” Lentz explained.

“Often people get these two words mixed up: acceptance and approval. If someone comes to my church, I don’t have to approve of every single thing in their life, because that’s not my job. I’m not God. My job is to accept you as I have been accepted. With everything in my life, God accepted me. So acceptance and approval, we draw a really cool line in there…”

…”I refuse to ostracize people any longer, I hate it. I think that there’s been so much hate, and so much bigotry and so much insensitivity, I’m done with that,” said Lentz.

I agree in part that the church was not put in charge of reforming society whole scale, but Jesus did in fact deal with sexual sin and other problems in public.

The Pharisees routinely quizzed Jesus in front of crowds or his disciples about divorce, healing on the Sabbath, adultery, and other matters. Jesus did not back down but replied to each question or confrontation. He did not shy away.
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Related posts:

(Link): Theology of Convenience, Expediency, and Borne of Culture – Christian Preachers and Writers Diminishing Seriousness of Sexual Sin

(Link): Most Pastors Say Their Churches Never Discipline Members for Sinful Misconduct, Survey Finds

(Link): No, Christians Do NOT Support or Idolize Virginity and Celibacy, they attack both)

(Link): When Adult Virginity and Adult Celibacy Are Viewed As Inconvenient or As Impediments

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link):  A Father Tries to Deny His Daughters Birth Control Coverage – I take this as another indication that conservatives do not truly believe in celibacy or sexual purity

(Link): Pastors avoid ‘controversy’ to keep tithes up, author says – Confirms What I’ve Been Saying All Along, Re: Churches: Contrary to Progressive Christians, Churches / Christians Do Not Support or Idolize Sexual Purity, Virginity, or Celibacy – they attack these concepts when not ignoring them

(Link): Warning: This Column Will Offend You – by M. Moynihan (Re: Trigger Warnings in Written Material, Terms such as slut shaming, man-splain, etc)

(Link): Religious Dating Sites: More than Half of Users Surveyed Are OK with Premarital Sex (2014)

(Link): Why So Much Fornication – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Sometimes Shame Guilt and Hurt Feelings Over Sexual Sins Is a Good Thing – but – Emergents, Liberals Who Are Into Virgin and Celibate Shaming

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Link): More Anti Singleness Bias From Al Mohler – Despite the Bible Says It Is Better Not To Marry

(Link): Why Do Christians Ask if Homosexuals Can Change Their Orientation – Why Not Explain that Celibacy is an Option?

(Link): Typical Erroneous Teaching About Adult Celibacy Rears Its Head Again: To Paraphrase Speaker at Ethics and Public Policy Center: Lifelong Celibacy is “heroic ethical standard that is not expected of heteros, so it should not be expected of homosexuals”

(Link): Joshua Rogers of Boundless / Focus on the Family Attacks Biblical Teaching of Virginity Until Marriage

(Link): Christian TV Host Pat Robertson says ‘Virginity Has Nothing To Do With Marriage’ and Says (Paraphrasing) ‘Virginity Was Fine For Mary But Not Applicable For Any Other Christians’

(Link): Article: Our Born-Again Virgin Bachelor – Secondary or Spiritual Virginity