It’s Okay To Call A Guy Creepy (article) / Little Sympathy for Ugly Single Guys

It’s Okay To Call A Guy Creepy (article) / Little Sympathy for Ugly Single Guys

Before I get to the “It’s Okay To Call A Guy Creepy” article, I wanted to comment on all the guys out there who perceive themselves as being ugly- to- average looking who are angry at women who they feel only want to date really good-looking guys.

I have little sympathy for most of these men, because women in American culture have been heavily judged on their looks alone for many, many decades, and they still are.

There are times I will defend un-married males on this blog where I feel they are genuinely under attack from whomever, but other times, I feel their complaints are unfounded, whiny, or grossly exaggerated, and this is one of those times.

When I was growing up, I (and I am a female) went through a “tubby” phase around junior high school age (ages 11 – 13), where I also had acne, wore thick glasses, and had frizzy hair. Both genders let me know at that time of life I was ugly. But the males in particular were very cruel to me about it.

I never got dates in my teen years. Boys did not flirt with me or ask me out. They would spit on me, pull my hair, gather in circles around me on the bus ride home to tease me with cruel put- downs until I cried, and then make fun of me for crying.

Men are total unreasonable, unrealistic jerks when it comes to judging women on their looks. They really are – from the time they are teen-agers to grown men, males will dismiss women on their looks alone.

All men, Christian and Non, from the scrawny, un-muscular, geeky, dorky guy, to the sloppy, fat, obese, 956 pound bald male, all feel entitled to a thin, gorgeous, movie star Megan Fox look-alike.

When on dating sites, the only criteria men care about – even the so-called “Christian” ones – are what women look like.

Men look at a woman’s profile photos on dating sites but never read the damn profiles, where you, the woman, mention what your favorite band is, what your hobbies are, and so forth. All the men care about is your damn physical appearance.

Female politicians get hammered for their weight, hair styles, and wrinkles in the media and from everyday commentators on sites, but the male politicians seldom get scrutinized or criticized for their fat bellies or balding heads or wrinkles.

Teen-aged girls and women are judged harshly by men in the area of looks.

I was just told by a sexist Christian idiot on another site about a week ago that now that I’m in my early 40s that the “bloom is off your youthful beauty,” so no man will want me now, according to this guy. I’ve seen that same view by Christian men (and on occasion by married women) on other sites or in books about singles.

Most dating advice books and blogs aimed at women, even the Christian ones, wrongly assume that the reason women remain single is that they must be ugly or fat, so women (or teen-aged girls) are told in such material to lose weight, diet, have long hair, wear lip stick all the time, and look pretty.

I have never really seen males get instructed by other males in dating advice sites to stay thin, work out at the gym, use Rogaine (if they are balding), etc. I suppose you could cite an example or two, but by and large, I have not seen men advised to shed extra pounds, get in shape, or get a toupee.

Historically in American culture, males have had no where near the pressure to look beautiful that females have.

But it is true that women love good-looking, built men. This is a fact that is over-looked by conservative Christians.

I’ve blogged about this subject many times before, such as (Link): Superman, Man Candy -and- Christian Women Are Visual And Enjoy Looking At Built, Hot, Sexy Men, (Link): Atlantic: “The case for abandoning the myth that ‘women aren’t visual.’” and (Link): Women Are Visual And Like Hot Looking Men (Part 1) Joseph in Genesis Was A Stud Muffin.

We women get the message from preachers and Christian dating blogs that we’re not supposed to be too picky when selecting a Christian mate. We single ladies are not supposed to care about the guy’s money, the guy’s looks – but, rather, that he reads his Bible daily and hands out rice on yearly missionary trips to Africa, and so on.

You Christian men (and the Non Christian men) are let off the “stay in shape, exercise, and diet” responsibility hook, but women are still expected to be youthful, pretty, and thin if they hope to get a spouse.

Even though most women are visual, some of them are willing to date an ugly- to- average looking guy, if he has some other feature they find compelling, such as he’s very funny, sweet, wealthy, attentive, interesting, or romantic.

I seldom see hot- looking (or even ugly or average looking) men willing to date ‘ugly- but- sweet,’ or ‘average-looking but funny’ women. Many women are more willing more often to bend their criteria in the ‘physical appearance department’ when it comes to who they date, than men are.

Women have a right to be attracted to whomever they are attracted to; they are under no obligation to date men they do not consider physically attractive or men they find odd or dorky. Men have had this right for ages and ages, but women are expected by most Christians -and all ugly men themselves- to date ugly or average-looking men.

(Link): It’s Okay To Call A Guy Creepy

Excerpts:

    by HUGO SCHWYZERJUN
    June 27 2013

    What SNL [television show Saturday Night Live] played [the situation of good looking men scoring with women while the ugly men are regarded as creepy by women] for laughs, many men (and some women) took – and still take – seriously: Some men can’t win with women, these people believe, no matter what they do or say.

    This attitude is best observed in the recent backlash against calling men “creepy.”

    “Creep is the worst thing you can call a man,” wrote Jeremy Gordon for the Hairpin, pointing out it’s an impossible charge for a guy to disprove.

    As Gordon writes, “creepy is a vibe you can’t define… you just know it.”

    Others argue that “creepiness” connotes something specific: male homeliness.

    Men’s rights activist Robert Lindsay titled a post “Creepy” is Woman Speak for “An Unattractive Man Who Shows Interest In Me,” while Thought Catalog’s Johanna de Silentio wrote that “there are also a lot of guys who are labeled ‘creepy’ just because they happen to be really unattractive.”

    I often hear something similar in my gender studies classes. (It was in a “Men and Masculinity” course years ago where an anguished young man first drew my attention to the Brady skit.)

    Whenever the subject of sexual harassment or “creep-shaming” comes up in class, someone– almost always a man– makes the case that SNL was right: the only way for straight men to safely express sexual interest in women is to do so while following the skit’s three rules.

    With almost invariable bitterness, these young men complain that unless a guy has won striking good looks in the genetic lottery, he’s doomed to be rejected and seen as overstepping his boundaries, no matter what he does.

    …A society where people are judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin, he [a male student of Schwyzerjun’s] declared, should also be a society where men are judged “creepy” solely on the basis of their words and actions rather than their looks. He got cheers from several other guys in the classroom.

    … My student’s mistake is an obvious one: Enjoyment can’t be coerced. Congress can’t pass a law requiring people to be delighted by the advances of others they find unattractive.

    I can get my children to eat broccoli by alternating promises of rewards and punishments, but I cannot do anything to make my daughter love vegetables as much as she loves ice cream.

    Similarly, no law can compel “Ashley,” a barista at the local coffee shop, to feel the same way about the advances of an older co-worker whom she finds repellant as she does about those of the young hottie who joins her on the opening shift.

    Until recently, however, few women could make sexual choices based primarily on physical desire and emotional attraction.

    In a world where few women had the opportunity to prosper without a man’s protection, marriage was about survival. The more educational and economic opportunities women acquire, the more opportunity they have to choose based on what they want rather than what they need for survival.

    As Daniel Bergner’s bestselling What Do Women Want? argues, once you level the economic playing field, women are just as likely as men to make sexual decisions based on desire alone.

    … Men’s rage about sexual harassment regulations and “creep-shaming” may well be rooted in an unwillingness to accept these cultural changes that have given women unprecedented power to say “no” to the lecherous and the predatory.

    Complaints that unattractive, socially awkward men are unfairly labeled “creepy” miss the point. “Creepy” describes having “the creeps;” it’s a word that centers on women’s own feelings.

    It’s no more “unfair” for Ashley the hypothetical barista to be “creeped out” by the advances of an older, unappealing co-worker than it is for her to be excited by the same approach from the man to whom she’s attracted. In that sense, the SNL sketch got to an important truth: Women’s subjective experiences and instincts matter.

    The freedom to act on those instincts doesn’t just lead to romantic fulfillment. In his indispensable 1997 bestseller The Gift of Fear, Gavin de Becker encourages women to rely on their own intuition to keep themselves safe from violence.

    There are few things more risky, de Becker argues, than overriding one’s own sense of real danger (“the creeps”) for the sake of preserving a relationship – or simply being “nice” to a stranger.

    Crucially, de Becker points out that people-pleasing and the urge to avoid causing offense put more women in danger than acting on sexual attraction.

    Women are more likely to be assaulted because they were too polite to someone whom they sensed was creepy than because they were too responsive to the charms of someone who turned them on.

    When men complain about being “creep-shamed,” or insist that the Tom Brady sketch accurately reflects reality, what they’re really lamenting is a culture that is increasingly willing to honor women’s right to be sexual — and women’s right to be safe.

Goodness knows I was judged harshly by males as a teen girl, then, when I lost the weight and the acne cleared up, I was lusted after in my 20s and 30s in person by men who I found to be CREEPY, dorky, ugly or weird, or, in a few cases, by guys that were attractive and okay, but I was just not interested in them romantically.

I’m on dating sites now, and I am still getting judged on my appearance by men of all ages, from their 20s, 30s, and some in their 60s and 70s, who want to date me.

Women are routinely judged on their looks alone by males, all through their life, from their girlhood to their senior years, so no, I can’t feel sorry for the dorky, scrawny, ugly, or fat guys who are upset that some women turn them down for not looking like Brad Pitt.

I used to get turned down for not looking like Megan Fox or Angelina Jolie, but I don’t quite hate the entire male gender for it. I accepted it and worked on my looks – which worked, because guys began asking me out. I do think males need to consider other qualities in a woman other than her looks, however.
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Some guy left a post replying to this one; I did not approve it to appear, but wrote about it here:
(Link): Follow up: Bitter Guy Replies to ‘It’s Okay To Call A Guy Creepy (article) / Little Sympathy for Ugly Single Guys’
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Related posts this blog:

(Link): Nice Guys: Scourge of the Single Woman

(Link): Nice Guys – the bitter single men who complain women don’t like nice men

(Link): Testosterone-Deficient Gamma Male Whines About the ‘Friend Zone’ (post from The Other McCain) – AKA, Ugly, Fat, Weird, Awkward, or Poor Nice Guys Who Unrealistically Expect to Attract Rich, Pretty, Thin, Socially Normal Women

Internet dating firms entice lonely hearts with faked profiles based on real people (article)

Internet dating firms entice lonely hearts with faked profiles based on real people (article)

(Link): Internet dating firms entice lonely hearts with faked profiles based on real people

    Investigators found some sites were buying people’s personal data

Some fake contact details featured pictures of Brad Pitt and Michael Caine

Information Commissioner’s Office has pledged to look into the industry
By IAN DRURY

PUBLISHED: 18:52 EST, 28 July 2013

Internet dating firms are using the details of real people without their permission to create fake profiles designed to entice lonely customers into paying to find love.

Investigators also found some matchmaking sites were buying the personal data of members of the public to artificially boost the number of people who appeared to be using their services, thereby helping the sites attract more customers.

The details included those of Brad Pitt, Michael Caine and a member of the House of Lords.

The Information Commissioner’s Office has now pledged to look into the industry over concerns that it is breaching data protection law.
It acted after BBC Panorama investigators bought the data of 10,000 people from a company called Usdate, which has a sales office in Florida. The profiles included photographs and lists of names, email addresses, dates of birth and sexual orientation.

Some contact details were clearly fake, featuring pictures of stars such as movie stars Pitt and Caine.

Continue reading “Internet dating firms entice lonely hearts with faked profiles based on real people (article)”

Creepizoids Weirdos and Perverts on Dating Sites

Creepizoids Weirdos and Perverts on Dating Sites

I saw this on (Link): Single Steve’s blog – he had an unfortunate experience with eHarmony.

Well, who hasn’t, other than that one anecdotal story you always hear from your married friends who tell you,
“Oh cheer up, I’m sure you’ll meet a great guy! My friend Bertha met her husband Ralph on eHarmony! Have you thought of eHarmony!?”

Here’s the comment on Single Steve’s blog, by Amanda:

    Amanda January 26, 2011 at 4:49 pm

I met the urinator on eHarmony.

They should have that as one of their levels of compatibility. Do you enjoy being peed on?

They should also have the question Do you enjoy people with no personality? During 99% I would have rather been at work.

That’s right, when you join dating sites, you do meet weirdos like “the urinator.”

I met a few on dating sites. (Other types of weirdos that is, not specifically urinators.)

You married people out there need to remember that dating sites are not a magical solution to getting dates or a spouse. There are weirdos and perverts on Yahoo! Personals, Plenty of Fish, eHarmony, Match, and rapists on Christian Mingle.

Some of the men who say they are Christian on those sites behave like no such thing.

I’ve had “Christian” men contact me on dating sites who ask for sex up front, or list sexual preferences up front, make crude jokes, or else have vulgar comments or sexual jokes on their profiles.

Clue time: if you would not state your sexual preferences the first time you meet a woman – say you walk up to her at a bar, or it’s a blind date you were set up with – you would NOT mention sex on a first date. Why the hell would you think it’s proper or appropriate to do this on a dating site profile, or the first 2 or 3 exchanges on a dating site? It is not.

Related posts this blog:

(Link): Stop Telling Your Single Friends to Try Dating Sites – Please.

(Link): Beware of Rapists on Dating Sites

(Link): More 40-Something Single Women Falling Prey to Dishonest or Violent Men in Dating (says report)

(Link): Men Posting Profiles on Dating Sites Could Use Some Tips (from Dear Abby column)

(Link): Police urge caution when using dating websites / Murderers on Dating Sites

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Sick of Being Single / I Am So Sick and Tired of Being Single Alone Unmarried Lonely

Sick of Being Single / Sick and Tired of Being Single Alone Unmarried

My main reason for making this post? Apparently there are a lot of people out there doing a search on the web for pages that contain the phrase “I’m so sick and tired of being single,” or something like it. So here’s a thread for you folks!

On this blog, I discuss singleness a lot – as a semi-former Christian (I’m not sure if I’m sticking with the faith or not), so in particular, I discuss how singleness is viewed by Christians, though I do occasionally post material about singleness from secular sources, or stereotypes secular culture has about singles.

You can go through lots of old posts on this blog if this is the first post of mine you’re reading, and please definitely check out (Link): my “About” page.

Even though I have a background as a Christian and am right wing, if you happen to be liberal, an atheist, or what have you, you’re welcome to post about your experiences about being single, as long as you’re respectful towards me (see the (Link): Policy on Dissent post).

I’m at a point (I’m in my early 40s now, was engaged once, but never married), where I’m at peace with being single, with occasional days or periods where I’m sad or frustrated by it. I guess I’ve gotten so used to being single that it doesn’t bother me too much as it did in my mid 30s, or not as much, or not as often.

Here are a few older posts from my blog (click the “continue reading” or “read more” link to see the links to those older posts):

Continue reading “Sick of Being Single / I Am So Sick and Tired of Being Single Alone Unmarried Lonely”

The Dating World of Tomorrow (article)

The Dating World of Tomorrow (article)

(Link): The Dating World of Tomorrow (article)

    … If you look at Figure 1 in this 2012 paper on how Americans meet their mates, you basically see that many of non-collegiate modes of meeting a partner have been in free-fall since the 1990s. Here’s how the authors frame it:

      From about 1960 to 1990 … neighborhood and church had a roughly steady influence over how heterosexual couples met, with about 10% of heterosexual couples meeting as neighbors and about 7% meeting in or through houses of worship.

      After 2000, neighborhood and church went in to steep decline along with most of the other traditional ways of meeting romantic partners.

      The post-1995 declines visible in Figure 1 for heterosexual couples in meeting through friends, meeting through coworkers, meeting through family, meeting in school, meeting in the neighborhood, and meeting in or through church are all statistically significant declines.

    College has also dipped since 2000 as a place to meet, but only modestly; bars and restaurants have ticked upward, and the internet, predictably, has exploded.

    This trend may not be a bad thing for marriage as an institution: So far, the data on unions formed online looks pretty encouraging, and it’s possible that the internet is helping to compensate for the eclipse of other forms of community, rather than contributing directly to those other forms’ eclipse.

    But it seems fair to assume that there are still a lot of people who would prefer to meet their future spouse the old fashioned way — through initial flesh-and-blood encounters embedded in a larger pre-existing social network.

    If that’s your preference, the university campus is one of the few flesh-and-blood arenas that seems to be holding its own as a place to form lasting attachments.

    So for those Americans who do attend college, the case for taking advantage of its denser-than-average social landscape might actually get stronger as the non-virtual alternatives decline.

Online Dating: Women Want Younger Men (article)

Online Dating: Women Want Younger Men

Challenging more gender stereotypes….

(Link): Online Dating: Women Want Younger Men

    Evidence shows more ladies are embracing their inner cougar.

    By Alexandra Sifferlin
    June 13, 2013

    When it comes to dating, there’s an unscientific, but prevailing opinion that older men want younger women and vice versa. Turns out, the opposite may be true for women on the online dating scene. Numbers culled from various dating sites have consistently shown both sexes prefer to date down the age spectrum rather than up.

    AYI (Are You Interested?), is one of the largest websites and apps designed to help users find their mates, but it works in an unconventional way.

    Users allow the app to access their Facebook profile, and people are then are paired based on interests. To sweeten the appeal, AYI also flags any mutual friends the prospective pair share. Users who like what they see ”fave” the profile. If not, they can click “skip.”

    AYI pulled data from its 68 million downloads and 20 million Facebook profiles to see which subscribers are making successful matches.

    It focused in on the 1 million recommended pairings in a specific population of 35,942 users ages 30 to 49. The surprising finding: a woman was five times more likely to show interest in a man was five years her junior that one who was five years older.

    If only the men would catch on. Among the 26,434 men ages 30 to 49, 42% wouldn’t even consider a woman if she was older than him.

    However, if contacted by an older woman, men wouldn’t necessarily turn her down. The data shows that a man is only 22% less likely to respond to an older woman than a younger woman if she initiates contact.

    What are some of the reasons for this? AYI analysts suspect that younger women are inundated by requests from older men and while that might once have had some appeal— in a marrying-for-wealth sort of way — it simply doesn’t anymore.

    A 2008 study published in the journal Psychology of Women Quarterly found that women who are 10 or more years older than their partner report more satisfaction and relationship commitment compared to women who are the same age or younger than their partner.

    Continue reading “Online Dating: Women Want Younger Men (article)”

July 4th Holiday Brings On Even More Dating Site Commercials

July 4th Holiday Brings On Even More Dating Site Commercials

See my previous post:
(Link): Too Many eHarmony Commercials

If I thought there were too many eHarmony dating site commericals before, they’ve gotten even more common place shortly before and even after the July 4th holiday this year. I’ve seen a slight rise in Match.com commercials, but a huge increase in eHarmony spots.

eHarmony seems to run more commercials around holidays.

As I said on my last post:

I hate eHarmony and am tired of their stupid commercials.

Neil Warren Clark and eHarmony can go suck on a rock.

Here’s one of the latest eHarmony commercials (2013) TV stations have been airing frequently (showing founder Clark on a speed date):

Marriage from online meetings is more stable, satisfying (article)

Marriage from online meetings is more stable, satisfying

(Link): Marriage from online meetings is more stable, satisfying

    by John Timmer – June 3 2013, 2:10pm CDT

    Like everything else, dating has moved online in recent years through a combination of organized dating services and incidental meetings (the Ars forums have enabled a number of matches). Now, a new survey of American households shows just how important this phenomenon has become: since 2005, a third of marriages were the result of online meetings, with nearly half of those coming through online dating services. The good news? Fewer relationships that started online ended up in divorce, and people were generally more satisfied with the ones that survived.

    The numbers come from a survey sponsored by eHarmony, a dating site that frequently uses its advertisements to suggest that it makes matches based on psychologically validated personality profiles. As revealed in the conflict of interest statement, one of the researchers involved in the new study is a scientific advisor to eHarmony. But the researchers got the dating company to allow them to publish their survey analysis no matter what it showed, and the group hired an outside statistician to validate the work.

    Overall, the survey included more than 19,000 people who had married between 2005 and 2012. Although it was performed online, the demographics of those who responded suggest it is broadly representative of the US population.

    All told, about a third of the marriages that occurred during that period arose from relationships that started online. A total of 45 percent of these came from online dating sites, 20 percent occurred through social networks, and another 10 percent came from chat rooms. Things like e-mail, blogs, and instant messaging all accounted for less than five percent of the relationships (online gaming came in at 3.6 percent). The real world was even more heavily fragmented: work and mutual friends accounted for 20 percent each of the introductions; school and social gatherings came in at around 10 percent each.

    Males and Hispanics are more likely to meet someone online. Online success stories are more likely to occur with older individuals (30-50) who are currently working and financially secure. There is a demographic shift in the medium used, of course. Older people are more likely to use e-mail, while younger people were more likely to meet via social networks or in virtual worlds.

    Is all this meeting online distorting our social fabric? Not if this survey is to be believed. Less than six percent of the marriages that started online ended up in divorce or separation; for real-world meetings, that figure was more than 7.5 percent. Hispanics and Asians experienced even greater benefits from online meetings. (Oddly, both Catholics and Atheists also saw a boost in marital stability if they met online.) Within the marriages that were still in existence, the marital satisfaction was higher among those who met online. Both these effects shrank a bit when demographics were controlled for, but they remained significant.

    The survey also provided some hints about what to avoid if you want to experience higher marital satisfaction. For real-world relationships, these include blind dates, bars, and meeting your future spouse through work. If it’s online, stay away from chat rooms and virtual worlds.

    Why might meeting online have a significant effect? The authors can’t rule out that there’s something specific to the personalities of those who choose to set up dates online. But they note that past studies have shown that just about everyone who communicates online is more willing to disclose things about themselves, which may help people evaluate their potential partners. In addition, they are undoubtedly able to choose from a larger group of potential partners than they’re likely to meet through work or friends.

    In the end, the survey told the company that paid for it, eHarmony, that it both is and isn’t anything special. It’s special in terms of size: it and Match.com combined account for half of the marriages that resulted from dating sites. The next closest competitor, Yahoo, only accounts for seven percent of the market. But it’s not especially good at setting up lasting relationships. The different sites initially had slight differences in how well they generated marriages, but those differences vanished once demographic factors were controlled for. So at least as far as this survey is concerned, all dating sites are pretty much the same. And they’re all better than a chat room.

_____Related posts this blog:_____

(Link): Stop Telling Your Single Friends to Try Dating Sites – Please.

(Link): Why Online Dating Doesn’t Work

(Link): Online Dating Vs Meeting in Real Life (copy)
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Weird Ass Farmer’s Dating Site Commercial

Weird Ass Farmer’s Dating Site Commercial

I wrote about these guys before (Link): here.

I just saw a new commercial for their dating site:

 

“City folks just don’t get it.” I’m a suburban girl, and no, I don’t get it, I guess, because that is one weird ass commercial and dating site niche.

See more posts about dating sites on this blog:

(Link): Dating Sites

The Netherworld of Singleness for Some Singles – You Want Marriage But Don’t Want to Be Disrespected or Ignored for Being Single While You’re Single

The Netherworld of Singleness for Some Singles – You Want Marriage But Don’t Want to Be Disrespected or Ignored for Being Single While You’re Single

I really don’t feel as though I fit in anywhere, even among singles. I am single and have never been married but would like to be married. Then there are times I’m fine with being single.

A problem I have experienced is that most people fall into strictly one side or the other, or some married people handle singlness strictly one way or another; there doesn’t seem to be a middle ground, but I’m in the middle.

There are occasions I’d like to be married, but I resent being overlooked, hounded about, or mistreated by churches and society while I am single, or for being single.

I’d like to be married because it would be great to share life with someone. It would be nice to have companionship.

However, I don’t think I should fall into the codependent habit of thinking I require a man to be whole, happy, or to have an identity.

I also reject Christian sexism (which sneaks into churches under the guise of “gender complementarianism”) which teaches all manner of obnoxious garbage, such as, women need a “male priest” (a.k.a. a husband) to access God on their behalf (yes, they really do teach this crud), or, women need a “male covering.” No, we don’t need either one of those. Those ideas are foreign to the Bible.

Yes, I hope to marry eventually, but while I am single, I want to be treated with respect by secular and Christian culture. I want to be noticed and acknowledged while I am single.

Churches, preachers, and most married Christians typically ignore singles over the age of 30.

If they aren’t ignoring us, churches, pastors, and married Christians are treating us singles over 30 as though we are slaves meant to do nothing but church menial work. Or, they insultingly assuming we’re all fornicating, or, they assume we are still single because we are weird, fat, ugly, socially retarded. Or, they wrongly assume, we singles past 30 must be blazing homosexuals, or stalwart, liberals and feminists.

For singles such as myself who want marriage, it’s frustrating and insulting to hear from preachers and churches that I should just accept singleness, I should “be content,” or I should “make the most of my singleness” and to hear other platitudes.

I abhor the books and blogs by older Christian singles such as myself who have thrown in the towel on their own hopes of marriage to lecture singles like me to just give in too, and they write we should remember God doesn’t care about our earthly happiness (supposedly), and we should remember eternity, where we’ll all be single anyhow.

I want to be respected while I am single and have my needs met by churches as a single. I want to be met where I am. I don’t want my singleness brushed aside, overlooked, or treated like it’s a disease that needs to be cured.

At the same time, though, I want my goal and hope of getting married one day to be RESPECTED and ENCOURAGED, not as is the usual case: shamed, insulted, ignored, or put down, and don’t tell me it’s a sin to be single, or that I am at fault in any way for being single, or that I failed because I was supposed to be married by my mid-20s.

I also don’t want to be given guilt trips or have it implied I am being selfish or ungodly for wanting to be married.

I don’t want pastors, Christian dating and relationship advice authors, and older Christian singles telling me to lay down my hope of being married.

I don’t want or need any more stupid, condescending, rude advice or cliches such as “just grow your hair long,” “Jesus is all you need,” or, “try eHarmony.”

Singles who are happy being single, who don’t want marriage at all, should be respected for remaining single if they so choose.

Some first marriages today in the USA aren’t taking place until one or both partners are in their late 20s or older. I have started collecting news stories of people who don’t get married for the first time until age 35, 40, 50, or older.

I’m afraid a lot of older married couples (as in ones who have been married for decades now) haven’t caught on that culture has changed, and people are delaying marriage until they are older – and contrary to the Al Mohlers and Debbie Makens of the world (the few Christians who do bother to notice that people are marrying later in life), that is not necessarily bad, sinful, or wrong. You just might get married for the first time in your late 30s, age 45, age 55, or who knows when.

Nobody should be pressured into marriage. Singlehood needs to be accepted and respected as a valid life choice for Non Christians and Christians. But often, it’s not. Here’s an example from an “Ask Amy” column:

DEAR AMY: My daughter, 40, was married to a man who was mentally abusive. He estranged her from her brother and friends and tried to end her relationship with her father and me. When she divorced him about five years ago, we were very happy. Fortunately there were no children.

A few years after the divorce she went to therapy, but I don’t know how much progress was made. Now she has no desire to date or to have a committed relationship with a man (or woman, for that matter).

She just says she is not interested. Her brother, who is married, has tried multiple times to encourage her to have a relationship with someone. The way he approached the subject was somewhat harsh, and she is more adamant than ever about meeting or dating.

She is a beautiful and intelligent woman and a very successful lawyer with her own practice. She and I are close. We are able to speak openly with each other, but this is a delicate subject. We are a very small family, and my husband and I won’t be around forever. I would appreciate any advice you can give me.— Worried Mother

DEAR WORRIED: My advice is that you (and her brother, especially) should stop urging your daughter to believe that there is something wrong with her.

You don’t say that she is angry, depressed or friendless, only that she is a successful survivor and a very successful professional and a beautiful, intelligent and lovely daughter.

Marriage and intimate emotional partnerships are not the answer for everyone. If your daughter says she is not interested in having this sort of relationship in her life, I think it would be great (and honest, true and supportive) for her family members to believe her. And then stop bothering her about it.

Amy’s advice is good on this letter. People should not be pushed or hounded into getting married. Singleness should be respected. Singles should be respected.

At the same time, though, remember:

If you are an un-married person who is desiring marriage, that’s acceptable too, regardles of you age.

Don’t let anyone, not famous preachers or older Christian singles in books, blogs, or forums, make you feel ashamed, selfish, or guilty for wanting to get married or for actively pursuing marriage (if you are using dating sites, asking friends to fix you up on dates, using churches to meet other singles, etc).

——————-

Related Posts:

(Link):  Christian Blogger About Divorce, Pastor Andrew Webb, Thinks All To Most Mid-Life Never – Married or Single – Again Adults Are Mal-Adjusted, Ugly Losers Who Have Too Much Baggage

(Link):  Research: Being Single [or Fear of Being Single] is a Meaningful Predictor of Settling for Less in Relationships

(Link):  ‘Leftover’ Is A Term Used In Many Parts of Asia For Women Who Haven’t Married By Their Mid-20s

Too Many eHarmony Commercials

Too Many eHarmony Commercials

I’m one of those people who keeps the television set on while I’m working or playing on the computer, so I hear a lot of TV commercials. I have basic cable and watch a lot of AMC, History channel, and other channels.

For the last 2 to 3 months, it seems like eHarmony commercials have been on more and more often. Not a day goes by I don’t see ol’ Neil Warren Clark peddling “eHarmony.” (I also see match.com commercials quite a bit. And I don’t like those either, but they don’t seem as annoying as eHarmony spots.)

I tried eHarmony some time ago, and it didn’t work for me.

I hate eHarmony and am tired of their stupid commercials.

Neil Warren Clark and eHarmony can go suck on a rock.

I might consider posting a link to an actual recent eHarmony commercial, but here’s a parody video or two:

eHarmony spoof commercial:

Spoof by MAD TV

How churches can play role in dating, marriage

How churches can play role in dating, marriage

Southern Baptists and other Christian groups can learn something from the page I’m linking to below.

Married Christians complain that Christian singles are remaining single, but they do nothing to help us singles get hitched.

We singles are not deliberately choosing to remain single – we are single because we cannot meet eligible bachelors. It’s left totally up to us to find a partner, and let me tell you, after you leave college, meeting single people in your age range becomes incredibly difficult.

Some Christian singles don’t like dating sites, have had no success with them, or can’t afford using them. So the church needs to step up to the plate and give Christian singles opportunities to meet and mingle, and Sunday School don’t cut it.

By the way, it’s incredibly stupid and counter-productive to segregate Sunday school by gender, as many Baptist churches do. To get a man and a woman married, they have to meet together in the SAME ROOM. Placing the woman in one room and the man in another will keep both single.

There are some singles who object to churches being used as meeting places for singles, but where the hell else should you expect to meet a potential mate, a bar? A night club? And again, dating sites such as “match.com” and “eHarmony” doesn’t work for some of us.

If the church wants to see more singles marry other Christians, the married ones need to start playing match-maker, introduce their single lady friends to the single guys, churches need to put on more social events for singles, etc.

This comes from a page by United Methodists.

(Link): How churches can play role in dating, marriage

Excerpts:

    Mr. Oates added that during their courtship and even now, the church has given the couple plenty of opportunities for shared activities and a shared ministry. It was “a no-brainer,” he said, that the couple would volunteer to help at the church’s vacation Bible school or serve as lay readers at worship.
    As many couples have discovered, a church potluck or Christmas pageant can make for a great date night.

    Opportunities to meet

    The United Methodist Church also offers singles a variety of ministries where they might discover their future sweethearts.

    Among those who responded to the UMNS Facebook question were people who met their spouses at United Methodist youth gatherings, campus ministries, seminaries and even annual conference sessions.

    …Emily Walter met her future husband, Jeremy, 13 years ago on the front steps of First UMC in Conway, Ark.
    They were introduced by a mutual friend who had invited Jeremy to church. Emily knew that friend through the Ozark Mission Project, a United Methodist ministry in Arkansas that connects church youth groups with short-term mission projects.

Article: Christian T-Shirts For Christian Singles

Article: Christian T-Shirts For Christian Singles

I am not sure what to make of this.

(Link): ‘Gutzy Wear’ Clothing Brand Designed to Help Singles Connect
Excerpts (visit the Christian Post link above if you want to see the whole thing):

    By Jeff Schapiro , Christian Post Reporter
    May 13, 2013|5:06 pm
    A brand of clothing designed to help singles connect with one another face-to-face was recently launched nationwide and is raising funds via Kickstarter in order to roll out some new products.


    Arizona entrepreneur Kari Holt came up with the idea for Gutzy Wear in 2011. As a single mother to three boys, she had tried online dating but often found that the people she met on the Internet didn’t live up to her expectations once she met them in person. Sometimes they looked different than they did in their profile pictures, she told The Christian Post, and other times the chemistry she had hoped for just wasn’t there.

    While driving in her car one day, she says, she came up with the idea to put a logo on a shirt that would suggest to others that the shirt’s wearer is “single, available and approachable.”

    …Although she’s starting small, Holt says she has a number of products planned for the future, including jeans, golf attire and accessories. Among the accessories she has planned is a ring for singles to wear on their right hand.

Westboro Mingle Dating Site

Westboro Mingle.com Dating Site (Satire)

Watch the video (parody of the Fred Phelps Westboro Church whose members picket funerals with picket signs that say “God Hates Fags” and “God Hates America”):


Related Posts:

This is NOT parody, it’s for real:

(Link):  Dating Site Bans White Supremacist From Their Site

Women Are Visual And Like Hot Looking Men (Part 1) Joseph in Genesis Was A Stud Muffin

Women Are Visual And Like Hot Looking Men (Part 1) Joseph in Genesis Was A Stud Muffin

Many secular and Christian males typically place too much emphasis upon female physical appearance. Both groups of males believe if they just have a stunning personality or are very wealthy, that they can obtain a movie-star good looking wife. (I use the term “males” to cover most age ranges: teen aged boys, young adults, and grown men.)

The Christian males in particular get this message indirectly by way of the fact that most sermons and Christian dating advice books and sites forever tell the females only to “look pretty,” to stay in shape, stay thin, grow their hair long (supposedly all men prefer long hair), etc. The silence to males on this topic is interesting, disturbing, and sexist: males of all ages are never told by pastors and in Christian dating advice blogs that women like handsome men with six pack abs, a full head of hair, and so on.

Men are seldom told to stay in shape, get thin, work out at a gym, etc. Christian men also get a double dose of this by being told that God designed males to be “visual” or “visually oriented.” This is used as a rationalization why they have to make no effort to stay in shape or be good-looking to nab a girlfriend.

The truth is that secular and Christian women do care about good looks in a man. Most of us ladies would prefer to date a studly, built, hot-looking guy.

Some of us ladies don’t care if you are a regular- church- attending Joe who lives in a mansion; if, however, you are a male who lacks hair, have a beer gut, or looks like nerdy Barney Fife, we’re just not going to be interested. That is the cold, hard reality.

The American Christian culture, males within it at least, feel safer if they live in this world of denial where they think they can be sloppy fat, have bad breath, have greasy hair (or no hair at all), and look dumpy, but as long as they’re a stand- up, spiritual kind of guy who volunteers at a soup kitchen once a month, they feel they will still rate, merit, or deserve a woman who looks like Angelina Jolie: and this is false.

There are even examples in the Bible where it’s noted that females notice if a guy is sexy, attractive, and good looking – and it’s not terribly relevant that the female examples are non-believers: Christian women care just as much, or almost as much.

Here’s an example from the book of Genesis chapter 39:

Now Joseph was well-built and handsome, and after a while his master’s wife took notice of Joseph and said, “Come to bed with me!” (Genesis 39: 6 – 7)

How about that! A woman who has eye sight noticed that a male was smokin’ hot. She was not turned on first and foremost by his integrity, brains, or spirituality… but his buff bod and chiseled jaw, oh yeah.

I find this terribly amusing, because one would get the idea from reading conservative evangelical, fundamentalist, or Baptist literature and blogs about true love, marriage, and dating that women don’t really give a fig about physical appearance – but we do, we really do.

Observe this video from the 2:35 to the 2:50 Mark, taken from a kid’s Bible cartoon show:


(Video: Potiphar’s Wife Thinks Joseph is Hubba Hubba)

In the video, see how Potiphar’s wife gives Joseph a going- over with her eyes, around the 2:35 mark and around 2:45 / 2:50.

Women have eyes in their heads. They notice if a male is in shape, has a full head of hair, and they notice if the guy is a tub of lard, lacks hair, is thin but has no muscular development (i.e., has the body of a five year old boy).

So, if you are an unmarried Christian male, if you want to get a girlfriend or get married, you better make very sure you look presentable.

Looks should not be the only thing a woman cares about, but plenty of women do indeed care about them, contrary to the messages you hear from your Baptist preacher on Sunday mornings, or the messages you see on Christian dating blogs.
————–
Related posts, this blog:

(Link): Atlantic: “The case for abandoning the myth that ‘women aren’t visual.’”

(Link): Article: Scientists: Why penis size does matter [to women]

(Link):  Yes Women Are Visually Oriented – Hundreds of female marathon runners abandon their race to mob ‘impossibly handsome’ policeman for selfies

(Link): The Annoying, Weird, Sexist Preoccupation by Christian Males with Female Looks and Sexuality

(Link): Conflicting Message to Christian Women by Christians About Physical Appearance

(Link): Gender Complementarian Product for Females: Don’t Base Your Value on Your Looks, but Wait, Yes, You Should

(Link): Superman, Man Candy -and- Christian Women Are Visual And Enjoy Looking At Built, Hot, Sexy Men

Beware of Rapists on Christian Dating Sites

Beware of Rapists on Christian Dating Sites

(Link): ChristianMingle Date Rape Victims Sought by California Cops

(Link): POLICE SEEK ‘CHRISTIAN MINGLE’ DATE RAPE VICTIMS — READ THE DISTURBING DETAILS

(Link): Second rape charge filed against man linked to Christian dating site

A second rape charge has been filed against a 37-year-old Del Mar man already accused of raping a woman he met on the ChristianMingle.com dating website.

Sean Banks of Del Mar was arrested Feb. 11 and charged with rape, burglary and penetration by force involving a woman in the San Diego suburb of La Mesa, according to court records.

On Friday, a second rape charge was added, alleging that Banks raped a woman in 2009. He was also charged with attempting to intimidate a witness. Banks has denied those charges.

———–
Related posts on this blog:

(Link): Stop Telling Your Single Friends to Try Dating Sites – Please.

(Link):  Tips For Defensive Dating, Including Warning Signs that You Could Be The Target Of An Online Romance Scam – From the WSJ

(Link): More 40-Something Single Women Falling Prey to Dishonest or Violent Men in Dating (says report)

(Link): Police: Woman raped, stabbed by man she met on dating website / Separate news story: Man used dating sites to find rape victims

(Link): Various articles about online dating – Online dating leads to marriage / why men fail at online dating – other articles

(Link):   Risky Business: The Dangers of Online Dating and How to Protect Yourself

(Link): Woman Meets Man on Dating Site, He Steals Her Dog and TV on First Date

(Link): Ladies with Husbands and Boyfriends – Beware of Revenge Porn

(Link): Police urge caution when using dating websites / Murderers on Dating Sites

(Link): Beware of HIV / AIDS Infected Christian Male Preachers On Dating Sites

(Link): Facebook Uses Photo of Dead Girl (by suicide) in Dating Site Ad

(Link): Homosexual Satanist Kills Cop He Met Via Grindr Dating App, Eats Part of Body, Acid Burns the Remainder

(Link): Why Online Dating Doesn’t Work

(Link): San Jose woman loses $500,000 in online Christian Mingle dating scam

(Link): Blogs by Single Women Who Discuss the Weirdos, Perverts and Losers Who Contact Them on Dating Sites

(Link): Weird Dating Sites, Toilet Dating, Dating Sites and Privacy

(Link): Online Dating: Women Want Younger Men (article)

(Link): Why Online Dating Doesn’t Work (article)

(Link): Stop Telling Your Single Friends to Try Dating Sites – Please.

(Link): Beware of Rapists on Christian Dating Sites

(Link): Online Dating Vs Meeting in Real Life (copy)

(Link): Creepizoids Weirdos and Perverts on Dating Sites

(Link): Internet dating firms entice lonely hearts with faked profiles based on real people (article)

Seniors Flirt With AARP’s Online Dating Service

Seniors Flirt With AARP’s Online Dating Service

Oh geeze, does it never end? Another specialized dating site…

(Link): For those 50 and older, AARP is helping to find that special someone.

“I never expected to be single and 50,” says Dina Mande of Santa Monica, Calif., a frequent user of the site.

Related posts at this blog:

More Weird Ass Highly Specialized Dating Sites – Part 2 (or are we up to 3 now?)

More Weird Ass Highly Specialized Dating Sites

More Weird Ass Highly Specialized Dating Sites – Part 2 (or are we up to 3 now?)

I was just made aware of a new dating site: “For Farmers Only.com”

There are dating sites for people over 50, people with Herpes (see link far below), Jewish people only, people with mental health problems.

Here is a quote from the Farmers dating site home page:

    For Famers Only – Dating Site

    Online Dating for down to earth singles is growing across America’s Heartland coast to coast!

    FarmersOnly.com is a dating site like no other. We exist because, the way we see it, there are basically two groups in America. Group one revolves around four dollar cups of coffee, taxi cabs, blue suits, and getting ahead at all costs in the corporate world. If you fall into this group then FarmersOnly is not where you want to be dating online. There are plenty of hard to trust dating sites out there for ya though! Group two enjoys blue skies, living free and at peace in wide open spaces, raising animals, and appreciating nature. We understand the meaning of Southern hospitality, even if we don’t all live in the South. This group makes up America’s Heartland – the slice of America with good old fashioned traditional values, values that were never lost by the farmers of our country. These values have also been preserved by the cowboys and cowgirls who still live on the edge, nature lovers who don’t take the outdoors for granted even though it is free, and horse lovers, ag students, and other animal lovers. If you’re in this group and going to be dating online, there is no dating site that comes even close to FarmersOnly.com. And you don’t have to take our word for it: You can check out who is on our site for free!

    So why is it different from other dating sites?

    We feel there is a greater need for this dating site than any other. The founders of FarmersOnly work with thousands of farms and ranches across the country, and met a number of single farmers of all different ages with one thing in common–they were all having a difficult time finding someone special. Why? Let’s face it: How many new people do you meet working on the farm all day?

    One farmer told us the story of her frustrations in finding her match. She thought that dating online would be the answer and joined some of the big national online dating sites.

    What she found was that the city folks that dominated these online dating sites couldn’t relate to her lifestyle. They wanted to meet at 9:00 p.m. for a cup of coffee when she would typically be preparing (going to bed) for the next day, which started at 5:00 a.m. Caffeine at that hour was the last thing she needed!

    We also talked to people living in small towns surrounded by farmland, where everybody already knows everybody. If they didn’t marry their high school sweetheart, it was difficult to meet someone new who understood the rural lifestyle.

    City folks just don’t get it!™

    When we looked for dating sites for farmers, we found sites that claimed to cater to farmers, ranchers, and country dwellers, but the majority of postings seemed to be from people living in big cities—if the people were real at all! Just looking at the postings, they sure didn’t look like farmers to us!

    So we built an online dating site that’s 100% for farmers, ranchers, and those who can relate to the rural and country lifestyle, and where you can register for free in order to get a feel for who is on our site.

    Instead of asking what your astrological sign is, at FarmersOnly.com we ask if you raise or breed alpacas, horses, cattle, chickens, dogs, goats, rabbits, sheep, grow crops, or if you’re an organic farmer, student farmer, cowboy, cowgirl, or just a farmer wanna be! How many singles sites do that?!

Related pages at this blog:

Those Times When You’re Glad to be a Celibate, Single Christian – 2 [Dating Site for People with Herpes]

Stop Telling Your Single Friends to Try Dating Sites – Please.

Why Online Dating Does Not Work

Fatherhood Not Quite the Producer of Manly, Mature, Godly Men Some Conservative Christians Make It Out To Be

Fatherhood Not Quite the Producer of Manly, Mature, Godly Men Some Conservative Christians Make It Out To Be

And don’t even get me started on the Andrea Yates-type news stories about women who drown, shoot, stab, suffocate, neglect- to- the- point- of- starvation, or yes, even sexually molest their own children. There are volumes of those.

I am not against parents or parenting or their importance, but I am against some factions of conservative Christianity which has placed pro-creation / fatherhood / motherhood (and marriage) on a pedestal.

Here’s a news story about a woman who says fatherhood turned her husband into a perverted, violent person:

‘Cannibal cop’ breaks down as wife readies to testify against him – By BRUCE GOLDING, February 25, 2013

The URL is (I don’t want trackbacks to this page, if NY Post uses trackbacks):

nypost.com/p/news/local/jury_hears_
openings_in_cannibal_S83Q92apEuUBIR7NNzqFAJ

Other points of interest:

The creepy guy in this story who fantasized about killing women acted like the sort of old-fashioned biblical gender complementarian John Piper would endorse: his wife said he would open doors for her, etc.

Also note that she met this guy, who she said at first seemed “nice,” on dating site “OK Cupid.”

And what did I just finish blogging about last week? Yep, this:

(Link): Stop Telling Your Single Friends to Try Dating Sites – Please.(*)

*(Not that I am opposed to dating sites, only to married Christians (and Non Christians) who keep pressuring their single friends to use them. Dating sites are not an instant fix for singlehood, folks.)

Excerpts from the NY Post story:

    Fatherhood brought out the worst in accused cannibal cop Gilberto Valle, who emotionally checked out of his marriage delved into dark worlds of sexual fantasy, his heartbroken wife told jurors today.

    Valle’s been charged with planning to kidnap, torture, rape and eat women, so he could bring violent sexual fantasies to life. Mangan discovered Valle’s twisted fantasies on his computer.

    “I just remember it was porn and it was disturbing. I know S&M is popular with `Fifty Shades of Gray’ but this seemed different,” she said of the kinky best-seller. “The girl on the front page was dead. “

    Mangan revealed the once-happy couple met through the dating Web site OKCupid.com.

    “He was nice,” said Mangan. “He opened doors and pulled out chairs.”

    But that all changed when she got pregnant, the wife said.

    “I had a complicated pregnancy toward the end and had to go to the hospital,” she said. “I remember my friends visiting more than him.” When baby Josephine was born less than a year ago, Valle emotionally vanished. “It’s like he was gone,” said Mangan, a special education teacher.

Another site carrying a story about this guy:

New York ‘cannibal’ cop watched death porn: wife

smh.com.au/world/new-york-cannibal-cop-
watched-death-porn-wife-20130226-2f2te.html

So this guy uses a dating site, finds his future wife that way, they have a kid together, and she says fatherhood pushed him over the edge, or changed him in some way, for the worse. We seldom hear this kind of thing from the “get married and be fruitful and multiply” nuts(*).

*(“Nuts” meaning the Christians and other religious groups who make marriage and/or parenting requisite for every one, or for everyone in their group, and/or who do not equally value and respect singlehood/ childfree/ childless.)
————————
Related posts, this blog:

(Link): Married Youth Pastor Father of Four Caught Raping and Molesting Several Little Boys claims the molesting kept the boys sexually pure and cures them of homosexuality

(Link): Apparently Marriage and Parenting Turns Adults Into Incestuous Child Rapists

(Link): Focus on the Family advice columnist perpetuates stereotypes about single women

(Link): Married Christian Preacher Men are Drug Addicts and Thieves

(Link): Motherhood Makes Women Selfish and Thieves

(Link): (Married) Pastor Busted in Prostitution Sting – If Married Sex So Great Why Do So Many Married Christian Men Have Affairs

(Link): Motherhood Does Not Make Women More Godly or Mature (Mother Suffocates New Born and Shoves It In Toilet)

(Link): Married Christians Defending Married Male Preacher Caught in Sexual Sin – Re TBN Paul Crouch / Jimmy Swaggart 1988 Broadcast

(Link): Married Christians Who Were Arrested for Rape, Attempted Murder, or Other Crimes – more examples

(Link): Married Church Pianist Found Guilty of Repeatedly Raping Little Girl Over Four Years

(Link): Married Christian Expert on Child Spirituality Pleads Guilty To Possessing Child Porn

(Link): Married Preacher and Father of Five (Geronimo Aguilar) In Trouble Over Multiple Affairs and Sex with Kids

(Link): Christian TV Personality ( Jimmy Evans ) Says You Cannot Meet God’s Destiny For Your Life Without A Spouse = Anti Singleness Singlehood Singles Bias Prejudice Making Idol out of Marriage

(Link): Lousy 40 Year Marriage – Husband Cheats on Wife for Decades

(Link): Married Woman Has Affair With Married Man While Her Own Husband Deals With Cancer Stricken Parents

(Link): Porn Usage Stats Among Christians 2013 (article)

Those Times When You’re Glad to be a Celibate, Single Christian – 2 [Herpes Dating Site]

Those Times When You’re Glad to be a Celibate, Single Christian – Part 2

Eeeee!

I did a google to see if one of my recent posts here had already been indexed by google (it has), and the link below turned up on the front page (and no, none of my posts have had anything to do about herpes – well, aside from the one where I pasted a quote by someone who had herpes asking an advice columnist for help, which I mentioned (Link): here).

Here’s the site that turned up on the first page of the results:

Herpes Dating Sites – Happy with Herpes
happy-with-herpes.com/herpes-dating-sites.html
Here’s a list and review of some Herpes dating sites so you can find a partner … You have something in common (though it might be awkward telling people … In 2007, on a boring Thursday night, I received a wink on PositiveSingles, … I have decided after years of having herpes to stop hiding, and learn how to be honest.

Seriously, there’s a whole dating site for people with herpes? (Edit: and they’re “Happy” about it. All righty. Odd.)


Related:

(Link): ‘STD-Verified’ Dating App Is Startup Culture Via Nutshell: Frank, Unchecked, Inevitable  by J. Burns