Regarding: ‘Imagine Thinking the Holy Spirit Will Protect You from Covid but Not from CRT’ – some thoughts

Regarding: ‘Imagine Thinking the Holy Spirit Will Protect You from Covid but Not from CRT’ – some thoughts

So, there’s this guy named Scott something- or- other (surname Coley?) who I muted or blocked on Twitter about a year ago, but sometime recently, Julie-Anne retweeted him (on her Twitter account). I don’t know if I can find his tweet again.

Every so often, this Scott guy posts something critical of Christian Gender Complementarianism I agree with, but I often find his bashing or mocking of conservatives or Trump-voting evangelicals on other issues to be hypocritical, condescending, or smug.

He may not come right out and name names, but it’s usually pretty obvious that his barbs are aimed squarely at “Trump evangelicals,” or any Christian church or group that is not progressive.

The tweet I saw recently via Julie Anne by this guy said something like this (link to Tweet):

‘Imagine Thinking the Holy Spirit Will Protect You from Covid but Not CRT’

Please note that sometimes leftists and liberals refer to CRT (Critical Race Theory) under other monikers, including “Culturally Responsive Education.” It’s all the same thing, just under different labels.

First of all, as I just posted the other day to this blog:

(Link, this blog): Secular Americans Less Likely Than Evangelicals to be Vaccinated: Poll

Also:

(Link, off site): Black Vaccine Hesitancy Rooted in Mistrust, Doubts

(Link, off site): Why Some Black and Latinx People Are Reluctant to Get the COVID-19 Vaccine

(Link, off site): Only 28% of young black New Yorkers are vaccinated, some fear the government is experimenting on them

So, the reporting is showing at this time that the vaccine holdouts are not, by and large, Republicans, evangelicals, whites, and/or Trump voters.

Continue reading “Regarding: ‘Imagine Thinking the Holy Spirit Will Protect You from Covid but Not from CRT’ – some thoughts”

Pat Robertson’s Insensitive Reply to a Domestic Violence Victim (November 2018)

Pat Robertson’s Insensitive Reply to a Domestic Violence Victim (November 2018)

Before I present the viewer question from the domestic violence victim, and Pat Roberston’s horrible response to that person, I wanted to say a few words first.

I’ve already done a post on this blog called (Link): “Women, Stop Asking Pat Robertson Relationship Advice,” but women (and sometimes men) keep e-mailing Pat Robertson for relationship advice.

Here is the gist of that previous post:
If you write Robertson for relationship advice – especially if you are a woman – 9 out of 10 times, Robertson’s reply will be sexist, unsympathetic, and victim-blaming. So do not waste your time.

Secondly, you’re an adult.
You don’t need Pat or the Bible or any other person to tell you what you need to do or what you should do. You can make up your own mind as to what you think is best for you.

Abusers do not change, no matter how much you submit and pray for the abuser.

It is a waste of your time and “tossing pearls before swine” to stay with an abuser. If you consider divorce a sin (I don’t, certainly not in the case of abuse – and abuse can be verbal, emotional, and financial, not just physical), God says in the Bible he forgives sin.

What most all the competent articles and books about domestic violence say is this:
You will need to leave the abuser – contact your local domestic violence shelter for assistance in that.

Continue reading “Pat Robertson’s Insensitive Reply to a Domestic Violence Victim (November 2018)”

Single, Virgin Women Do Not Have Another Standard by Which to Be Saved, Contra Complementarian Group CBMW

Single, Virgin Women Do Not Have Another Standard by Which to Be Saved, Contra Complementarian Group CBMW

The Bible does teach that people should remain virgins until marriage, but oddly, some Christians do things like omit men from this teaching (as though virginity applies only to women).

In this case, they seem to be conflating being single, and a virgin, with receiving salvation, as though there’s some other standard by which others are saved. Christians also frequently make much too much out of the marriage analogy, in which they pretty much seem to suggest that a person has to be married (and having sex) to truly know God or be in relationship with God.

Via the Biblical Personhood blog:

(Link): Is “Biblical” manhood and womanhood compatible with the gospel of Christ?

The Biblical Personhood blog reproduces this quote from a Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood resource:

[from complementarian, CBMW, material:]

48. How can a Christian single woman enter into the mystery of Christ and the Church if she never experiences marriage?
[Their answer promotes offering your virginity to God. Nothing about becoming a Christian.] – CBMW, “Fifty Crucial Questions, Question 48

… The mystery of Christ and the church, likewise, is not about marriage or celibacy. Jesus loved you – male or female, single or married or divorced or widowed – first. Know you are loved by God, love God back, experience God’s love, and see how it never ends, and how it changes you to live for Him.

Continue reading “Single, Virgin Women Do Not Have Another Standard by Which to Be Saved, Contra Complementarian Group CBMW”

Death, Grief, Marriage, Single Again, Soul Sleep, Christianity, Obnoxious Male Fixation on Female Looks

Death, Grief, Marriage, Single Again, Soul Sleep, Christianity, Obnoxious Male Fixation on Female Looks

I have several topics I’d like to address here. I’m going to discuss death, grief, dating, how men are too fixated on women’s looks, etc, and so on, all in the same post.

I learned from watching the Christian program “It is Written” today (Feb 2017) that the wife of Christian TV host Mike Tucker, Gayle, died. I’m not sure when the episode was first filmed or first aired.

You can read a transcript of that episode, “From Grief To Hope” (Link, off site): here.

You might be able to watch that very episode or one like it here: (Link, off site): Coping with Grief.

I see from an online obit that Gayle Tucker passed away in April 2016.

I am sorry for his loss.

I lost my mother, and it hurt a lot.

(Link, off site):  Gayle Tucker, Beloved Marriage Counselor on Faith For Today TV, Dead at 60

April 2016 –  The prominent Adventist television personality dies after a brief struggle with pancreatic cancer.

(Link, off site):   Beloved Christian TV Host, Couples’ Counselor Dead at 60

I learned a few years ago that the hosts and backers of “It Is Written” are SDAs (Seventh Day Adventists).

I also learned from a glance over google search results that Mike Tucker is a Seventh Day Adventist.

Part of SDA theology is something called “Soul Sleep,” a view that I totally disagree with and find discouraging and cruel.

Continue reading “Death, Grief, Marriage, Single Again, Soul Sleep, Christianity, Obnoxious Male Fixation on Female Looks”

Some Liberals Call Gatlinburg Fire Punishment for Trump Support

Some Liberals Call Gatlinburg Fire Punishment for Trump Support

Well this is a switch.

Usually, we find right wing Christians saying that every natural disaster in the United States is due to homosexuality or abandonment of support to Israel, but here we have liberals saying that the wildfires in TN are due to people voting for Trump.

(Link) : Some Liberals Call Gatlinburg Fire Punishment for Trump Support

Excerpt:

Salvation Army Bans Duggar / Quivering Cult’s ‘Retreat’ (Called ‘Get Them Married’) that Promoted Arranged Marriages for Teen Girls – Quivering Advocates Are Anti-Adult Singleness and Anti-Celibacy

Salvation Army Bans Duggar / Quivering Cult’s ‘Retreat’ (Called ‘Get Them Married’) that Promoted Arranged Marriages for Teen Girls – Quivering Advocates Are Anti-Adult Singleness and Anti-Celibacy 

Before I present you with the links to the news reports about this story (which are much farther down the page), I wanted to make some introductory comments in general, and a few specific comments refuting a few points from a pro-Quivering page about celibacy.

In regards to the specific news story I am blogging about today, this Quivering group is completely overlooking Apostle Paul’s comments in (Link): 1 Corinthians 7 that it is better for people to remain single than it is to marry – and Paul does not say that this teaching is in regards only to “a few,” or only a “minority” of people.

The Bible nowhere states that marriage is “a norm,” or that God expects or wants all, or most, people to marry.

It just so happens that in other cultures thousands of years ago, most people did happen to marry – one should not deduce from this cultural situation that God supported it or wanted it to be so. It just was what it was.

If the Bible said that all or most ancient Jews painted their bodies green once a year and balanced weasels on their heads while jumping up and down on a watermelon one week out of a year, one should not assume from this that

  • 1. God created that cultural practice and/or that
  • 2. God wanted Americans in the year 2016 to practice these things as well.

The Quivering group’s position on marriage, celibacy, and singleness is unbiblical, not to mention disturbing.

According to this article (linked to much farther below), the Quivering group was going to call this event, (where they set up marriages for little girls to marry), “Get Them Married.”

Why not have an event called, per 1 Corinthians 7, “It Is Better To Stay Unmarried”?

Am I opposed to marriage? No.

Is the God of the Bible against marriage? No.

But the Bible does not say that being married is better or more holy for girls, women, or culture, than being single, but a lot of Christian groups, and these wacky Christian cults, insist otherwise.

Christians need to do a better job of recognizing adult singleness and celibacy as legitimate, godly, biblical lifestyles and choices for all persons (and not only meant for a small minority of people who were supposedly “gifted” with it), instead of promoting marriage and natalism as the only legitimate avenues or as ways of fixing culture, the nation, or as pleasing God.

Continue reading “Salvation Army Bans Duggar / Quivering Cult’s ‘Retreat’ (Called ‘Get Them Married’) that Promoted Arranged Marriages for Teen Girls – Quivering Advocates Are Anti-Adult Singleness and Anti-Celibacy”

James Dobson’s Flawed Take on Population Decline (no.1: We’re Not in Decline) by T. Grant

James Dobson’s Flawed Take on Population Decline (no.1: We’re Not in Decline) by T. Grant

As this report notes (link is much farther down this blog page), more pressure is placed on WOMEN to marry and have children than is placed on MEN.

I know that culture and Christians can treat single / celibate / childless men like trash, but they are TEN TIMES worse on Christian WOMEN in these regards.

Women get far more pressured to marry and have kids than men do or ever will.

Women get more shamed and insulted by Christians (and at times, secular culture) for staying single, celibate, and childless than males ever are.

Just because most women are capable of carrying a baby inside them, society and churches think it’s their DUTY to have a baby (as though women serve no other purpose in life), and if they choose to opt out (or cannot have a kid), they are still marginalized or insulted for it.

Men don’t face nearly as much insult or pressure to have kids as women do.

I am right of center – but I agree with this left wing (liberal) guy that other right wingers such as Dobson’s real goal is to be against what he perceives as liberal threats to the church or culture. That is one very real motivator some right wingers have, in why they do things like harass women to have children.

I also want to say how utterly moronic I find this approach by Dobson.

Continue reading “James Dobson’s Flawed Take on Population Decline (no.1: We’re Not in Decline) by T. Grant”

Unanswered Prayer and Diversity of Doctrine and Biblical Intepretation (podcasts)

Unanswered Prayer and Diversity of Doctrine (podcasts)

I was going over some of the other broadcasts of the Christian apologetics show “Unbelieveable” when I saw at least two topics that I’ve addressed on my own blog before.

A couple of problems I’ve been having with the Christian faith, among several, are unanswered prayer and the fact that Christians cannot agree on what the Bible says, how to implement what it says.

I wonder what the point is in having a book that is supposedly written by God, if those who say they believe in that book (and who say that they believe in that same God) never- the- less do not agree on what the book teaches, and that some of them use that book to justify abusing people (financially, sexually, emotionally, physically).

You would think if God wrote a book (through men or otherwise) that he would make all of that book’s points abundantly clear so that his followers would not mess things up and get into prolonged disagreements about what the book means or how to carry out that book’s teachings.

I also note that Christians who defend prayer try to “explain away” what the biblical text says about prayer.

Jesus does in fact say in one or more of the Gospels that what ever you ask for in his name he will do – but as quasi-Christians like myself point out to the true believers, many times, your prayers will go unanswered, to which they reply, well, Jesus did not REALLY mean to say that whatever you ask for in his name will come to pass.

Here are the links to the podcasts:

(Link):  Does prayer make sense? David Wilkinson vs Ed Atkinson – PODCAST

(Link):   Can Christianity be true if Christians can’t agree on doctrine? Andrew Whyte vs Nabeel Qureshi – PODCAST

The ex-Christian guy who is on that show who argues that the conflicting interpretations of the faith and the Bible are problematic for Christianity, or may imply that Christianity is false, has a You Tube channel where he makes videos on this topic. Here it is:

After listening to both those podcasts a couple of days ago, I was not completely satisfied with the responses given to the skeptics by the Christians.

It seems to me that some Christians really under-estimate how damaging some of these particular doubts or criticisms of the faith really are.

Despite that, both shows were still interesting to listen to, and I related to what the ex-Christians or the skeptics were saying.

—–

Here are previous posts I’ve blogged about these subjects before:

Diversity of Interpretation:

(Link): Christians Who Can’t Agree on Who The Old Testament Is For and When or If It Applies

(Link): More Musings about Applicability of the Old Testament, Via One Man’s Testimony About Jeremiah 29:11

(Link): Christians Once Again Trying to Explain Who The Bible’s Promises Are For – TGC Article

(Link): Pat Robertson Contradicts Himself On Healing and God’s Will

Unanswered Prayer:

(Link): Critique of Pastor Groeschel’s “I Want to Believe But…” Sermon Series

(Link):  How to Deal with Unanswered Prayers via Pastor Bil Cornelius 

(Link): Christian Viewer Expresses Disappointment in God, Wants To Know Why, In Spite of Years of Service, God is Not Helping Him

(Link): Joanne The Widow Lady Wants to Know Why God Didn’t Answer Her Prayer to Keep her Husband With Her

(Link):   When All We Hear from God is Silence by Diane Markins

(Link):   Gordon Robertson’s Quasi Insensitive or Lacking Advice to Cancer Patient / Unanswered Prayer / Christians should just sometimes admit They Do Not Know

(Link): Blaming the Christian for His or Her Own Problem or Unanswered Prayer / Christian Codependency

(Link): On Prayer and Christ’s Comment to Grant You Anything You Ask in His Name

(Link): Gary Habermas joins Janet to discuss dealing with doubt in the Christian life (Re: Unanswered Prayer)

(Link):  When you show God you don’t want it, that’s when God will give it to you – according to Joel Osteen – I disagree

Additional:

(Link):  Gallup: Record Low 24% Believe Bible Is Literal Word of God (May 2017)

Some of My Thoughts Regarding ‘Why do evangelicals lose their faith?’ – Podcast by Unbelievable

Some of My Thoughts Regarding ‘Why do evangelicals lose their faith?’ – Podcast by Unbelievable 

The other day, I posted this (part 1 to this post):

I have re-listened to the podcast this evening and wanted to comment on some of what I heard.

In the program, there is a guy named Rodney who was once a conservative Christian, who drifted into liberal theology, and who now says he has a “deistic philosophy” and he says he is “agnostic about most religious questions.”

He says he has same sex attraction, and was put off to Christianity for (among other reasons):

How American conservative Christianity tends to over-identify with, or promote, the Republican Party (right wing American party), and that some preachers are too condemning of homosexual persons.

Rodney also says he does not accept the notion of an eternal Hell.

A few times, Rodney mentions that he has a deist- like view of God. He thinks all of us humans are rats, the earth is a big laboratory, and God is a scientist in a white lab coat observing us all but not intervening.

Rodney thinks if God is involved with human life, that God should do things like cause all members of ISIS (terrorist group) to drop dead of heart attacks. He does not believe that God helps people to pass school tests, find parking spaces, or cures diseases.

The show had a Christian author and guest on named Os, who replied to some of Rodney’s points.

_Some of my thoughts on the show and the topics Rodney raised._

1.) Politics and Liberal Vs Conservative Christianity

I am right wing politically and have been a Republican (GOP) my entire life.

I have very large misgivings about the GOP the last few years, though, so I’m not totally sure where I stand politically, though I do not ever see myself becoming a liberal or a Democrat.

I do agree with Rodney that too many conservative Christians conflate Christianity with the Republican party.

But then, a lot of liberal Christians or liberal Christian denominations entwine a lot of liberal beliefs and causes with the faith too, (such as support of abortion, the Democratic Party, liberalism, and homosexual marriage).

Continue reading “Some of My Thoughts Regarding ‘Why do evangelicals lose their faith?’ – Podcast by Unbelievable”

Christian Patriarchalists and Gender Complementarians Sexualizing the Trinity and Insisting Sexual Activity and Marriage Are Necessary to Fully Know God (via Under Much Grace blog)

Christian Patriarchalists and Gender Complementarians Sexualizing the Trinity and Insisting Sexual Activity is Necessary to Fully Know God (via Under Much Grace blog)

There was actually a book by some Christian authors some time ago who quoted works by other Christian authors who suggest that to truly and completely know God, a person has to be married and having sex with a spouse. Of course, if you are a virgin into your 30s and older, this is a problematic view – as well as being bizarre, unbiblical, and ridiculous.

At Under Much Grace blog, Cynthia Kunsman wrote a series of blog posts about that issue as well, and related ones, such as the Christian gender complementarian tendency to sexualize the Trinity – yes, God Himself.

I will only copy a portion or two from Under Much Grace blog; please click the link below to visit Mrs. Kunsman’s blog to read the entire thing.

On the blog page I am linking you to here, there are links to five more pages on her blog. She has broken up her writing on this topic into a series of posts.

(Link):  Tim Keller, Sex, and Eternal Submission Doctrine: Summing up the Sexualization of the Trinity with Shirley Taylor (the introductory post), by Cynthia Kunsman

Excerpts:

… Ideas have consequences, and I find two most troubling consequences that result from these [Christian gender complementarian / Patriarchal] teachings claiming that marital sex concerns and mirrors the life of the Three Divine Persons in the Trinity.

Some engage in this debate because these ideas hinder women from participating in ministry which is troubling enough, but these same ideas are used to dehumanize women which can also result in abuse.  In terms of theology, I’m deeply disturbed by the theological implications.  In effect, they result in a sub-Christian understanding of God’s identity which robs Christ of His full deity

An Index to Posts on the Sex and Trinity Connection

The posts that address these issues concerning sex and the way that the developed are explored in the following posts in Five Parts.  They center around Tim Keller’s statements, and most include commentary from Shirley Taylor — both from her books and from some of our private exchanges:

I:Tim Keller on the Meaning of the Sex Act in MarriageII:  Sex, Tim Keller, and the Replacement of Salvation by Faith

III:  The Genesis of Eternal Subordinationism

IV:  Is the Trinity a Sex Orgy?

V:  The Connection between Marriage and Holiness  (The meaning of Ephesians 5:22-29)

 Further down that (Link): main page, Mrs. Kunsman has a handy-dandy chart you might want to check out, and she introduces it by saying,

Here’s a chart of the development of these doctrines which are further explored in the posts in this series

Here is are just a handful of excerpts from a few of the other pages in the series:

Shirley Taylor responds to this statement in her book Dethroning Male Headship in the discussion of the “Sexualization of the Trinity”:

Salvation by faith has been replaced

They have made the marriage bed into God’s grand design and demoted salvation by faith into a secondary design. But salvation for the Church Body was God’s grand design, not the marriage bed. Procreation was part of God’s grand design in marriage, and the Bible does not shy away from sex. However, God’s command to be fruitful and multiply does not indicate that the sex act reflects God Himself. Sex is procreational and recreational, but it is not symbolic of the relationship of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

(Source for above)

As we established in (Link): previous posts, Tim Keller’s writings (along with those of his like-minded ideologues) claim that marital relationships as well as sex itself gives us the best insight into the social nature of the Trinity and the personalities within it.  Along with thinking about our spouse as we are in the throes of passion, we are are told that we Christians should be thinking about the relationship between the Father and the Son.

….Keller says in Chapter 8 of his book that marriage is a “commitment apparatus” after explaining that sex is not dirty and it is more than a physical act.  But then, he goes on to say that we need the “spousal love of Jesus” in our lives.  I find this to be a profane (unholy) statement and nauseating.  I need God’s sacrificial love, and I need the love of my husband, along with the love of family and friends, too.

He [Tim Keller] then says that we all need the “cosmic need for closure that our souls find in romance.”  WHAT???  That means that if you are single, you can’t know God which is why Keller claims that if single, you must have a very large peer group community of singles who are all seeking marriage. 

Continue reading “Christian Patriarchalists and Gender Complementarians Sexualizing the Trinity and Insisting Sexual Activity and Marriage Are Necessary to Fully Know God (via Under Much Grace blog)”

Idiot Christian Husband Claims He Cannot Stop Visiting Prostitutes

Idiot Christian Husband Claims He Cannot Stop Visiting Prostitutes

Some married Christian guy wrote in to Christian TV show “The 700 Club” to tell host Pat Robertson he’s been seeing hookers and cannot stop. He wants advice on how to stop. Of course, moron boy can stop any time he wants.

Let this be a lesson to you, single Christian ladies who want marriage:

Christians will tell you that you can only be married to another Christian (they base this on only one or two Bible verses that are open to interpretation), but even if the Bible did teach this be equally yoked crap, if you want marriage, you may have to marry a Non Christian because Christian females out number the males. Other than that, some Christian men are pigs.

Here you have a guy who says he’s a Christian, but he regularly visits hookers, and I think he said he’s been doing so for years.

You, single Christian woman, are just as well off marrying a Non-Christian man, because the Non Christian man just may live a cleaner life style than a Christian one. You may find a Non Christian husband who would not even dream of seeing a hooker.

I also wonder what this sort of story says about God.

If the God of the Bible exists, why would he permit well meaning, devout, sincere Christian women to end up marrying abusive men, or perverts, like this one, who visits hookers?

If this man’s wife is anything like I was growing up, she probably prayed daily for years that God send her a Christian Mr. Right who would be a kind-hearted, decent guy. I can bet you dollars to doughnuts she did not pray, “Dear Lord, one day, please send me a Christian husband who will cheat on me, and by using prostitutes.”

No, she probably petitioned God for a clean cut guy who has decent morals. So why on earth did God send this woman a man who is a serial cheater?

God is not keeping up his end of the promise, for Jesus said God will only send “good gifts” to his children. Who among you reading this thinks that a serial cheater is a “good gift?” Me neither.

To refresh your memory, from Matthew 7:

  • Or if he [your child] asks for a fish, he [the parent] will not give him a snake, will he? 11 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

So what is the point in praying to God, or relying on him to meet needs?

God has utterly failed the wife this guy is married to, just as he has failed the many Christian women I have read about in books and other blogs who had to divorce their abusive Christian husbands.

Let this be another example as well that marriage or parenthood do not make a person more godly or mature.

Many Christians teach that singles are immature or are sexual perverts, and teach that marriage is necessary to make a person mature or ethical. Clearly, marriage or parenthood do not make anyone more mature, godly, or loving, since we have a Christian married man (who I think is a father too), who uses hookers.

The man’s letter is the 3rd or 4th one on this video:

(Link): 700 Club Video: Christian Married Man Uses Prostitutes – You Tube

(Link):  Bring It On-Line: Existence In Heaven / Married Christian Man Visits Hookers – hosted on 700 Club site

————————————-

Related Posts:

(Link): Forget About Being Equally Yoked: “My Abusive Christian Marriage”

(Link): Update on Christian Rapist Man Who Used Christian Mingle Site To Pick His Victims (he liked to discuss Jesus and the Bible with them before raping them – other details in update) Equally Yoked Teaching IS A FARCE

(Link): On Prayer and Christ’s Comment to Grant You Anything You Ask in His Name

(Link):  Blaming the Christian for His or Her Own Problem or Unanswered Prayer / Christian Codependency

(Link):  Depressing Testimony: “I Was A Stripper but Jesus Sent Me A Great Christian Husband”

(Link):   Shocking Porn ‘Epidemic’ Stats Reveal Details About Christian Consumption (2014 Study) / Nearly Two-Thirds of Christian Men View Porn Monthly; They Are Watching It at Same Rate as Secular Men, Says Study – Christian Single Women: More Proof “Be Equally Yoked” Teachings Are Pointless

(Link):  Florida Youth Pastor Is Behind Bars After Child Porn Discovery – Be Equally Yoked: What A Joke

(Link): Life in prison for Satanist who dismembered and ate mother-of-three after taking her back to his house for sex – The Flip Side to Be Equally Yoked

(Link): Conservative Jews question notions on dating, marrying only Jews

(Link): Pro Ball Player Convicted for Kid Diddling Three Kids Claims to be an Outstanding Christian (and he’s married with a kid of his own) – again, why should Christian single gals limit themselves to only marrying Christian men? The Whole “Being Yoked Equally” thing is irrelevant and unduly limiting for singles

A Response To J D Hall’s Vomit-tastic Post about Village Church’s Handling of Certain Members, Covenants, and Marriages

A Response To J D Hall’s Vomit-tastic Post about Village Church’s Handling of Certain Members, Covenants, and Marriages 

Before we get to the post by J D Hall:

Background:

  • The Village Church (TVC) of Texas has placed Karen, who was once a member of theirs, under church discipline because she did not, according to them, abide by the church covenant she signed.
  • Instead of conferring with the church on what to do, Karen, on her own, sought an annulment from the state of Texas, once she discovered her then-spouse, Jordan, was a pedophile.
  • Karen said she spent about 50 days conferring with other Christians (not from the TVC), and in prayer, mulling over what to do, before seeking the annulment.
  • This action of hers has ticked off TVC leadership, because Karen did not get their permission to get the annulment.
  • Matt Chandler is the lead preacher of TVC.

You can read additional reporting of this situation here (additional material is at the bottom of this post):

Here is the page I am responding to:

(Link, off site): A Rational Response to the Criticism of Village Church  by  J D Hall, Pulpit and Pen blog

The covenant that Hall is so rigorously defending – TVC’s membership covenant – here does not even mention annulments.

As Karen explains (off site Link, Source):

  • …it is worth noting here that although The Village Church claims [in their e-mail] that “We see an annulment as a subcategory of what Scripture defines as a divorce in Mark 10:9” …, this cannot be found anywhere in their Membership Covenant or Bylaws.
  • In signing their Membership Covenant shortly after my 24th birthday, I had agreed to nothing in regards to the possibility of annulment should I come to realize that my marriage had been a complete sham from the beginning.
  • There is a vast difference between a divorce and a marriage that is voided on the grounds of fraud, and I had no way of knowing that the leadership of The Village Church would respond to it in this fashion.

Continue reading “A Response To J D Hall’s Vomit-tastic Post about Village Church’s Handling of Certain Members, Covenants, and Marriages”