Miserable in a Marriage to a Covert Narcissist – Content by Renee Swanson – Complementarians Push People to Stay in Toxic Marriages Like This One (This Content Can Help Single Adults Too)

Miserable in a Marriage to a Covert Narcissist – Content by Renee Swanson (This Content Can Help Single Adults Too) – Complementarians Push People to Stay in Toxic Marriages Like This One

This post has been edited to add more material

It would be nice if more psychologists, therapists and lay persons wrote articles or blog posts from the vantage of how things affect single adults, but that’s not always the case.

As you know from my blog, I am a never married, middle-aged adult. Yet, I still find some content about marriage helpful in navigating or understanding my relationships with family members and friends.

This lady, Renee Swanson, has a blog, several social media channels, and a podcast about having been married to a Covert (Vulnerable) Narcissist for 21 years – in my opinion, based on what she’s written, her husband is not only a Covert Narcissist but displays elements of what is called Neglectful Narcissism (more on that below).

It looks to me as though some of Swanson’s accounts have not been updated in two or so years, but the content is still quite helpful and illuminating.

I’m going to excerpt a few of her blog posts below.

I want you to note that contrary to what extreme marriage (and parenthood and nuclear family) promoters have to say, that marriage (and parenthood, etc), does not necessarily make a person happy, safe, and secure, as Renee Swanson’s content once again demonstrates.

The person you marry, should you marry, can end up being emotionally, sexually, financially, or physically controlling, negligent, or irresponsible.

There are some personality disorders for which there is no cure, and for which the disorder is largely impervious to therapy.

Which means, should you marry someone with one of those disorders, such as severe pathological narcissism, your partner is never going to change or get better, no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, or how much you do for them, love them, or pray for them.

I think that the Christian gender complementarian interpretation of the Bible is incorrect on many topics, but certainly in regards to divorce.

Many complementarian persons, churches, denominations, and pastors believe that the Bible never allows for divorce, including in cases of physical, sexual, and/or emotional abuse.

Such anti-divorce, complementarian churches and pastors frequently mistakenly teach people (usually women) who are married to abusers to simply submit more to their spouse, and that will make the mistreatment stop. Such pastors, churches, etc, are entirely ignorant about personality disorders and abuse dynamics.

If these complementarian, anti-divorce clowns spent any time at all looking up information on abuse dynamics or personality disorders, they would learn soon enough that there is nothing another person can do to fix, change, or heal an abusive or toxic person – and the spouse sure won’t be able to do it.

I’ve never married, but I’ve had family members, co-workers, bosses, friends, and acquaintances display presence of disorders or toxic behaviors, and no matter how kind and loving I was to those persons, it didn’t get their abuse of me to stop.

In each case, I either had to limit contact with the toxic person, or cut them out of my life entirely. The same should be true of marriage – you may have to limit contact with your toxic spouse (grey rocking or yellow rocking), or divorce the person.

The following blog post by Renee (the second one featured below, particularly) accurately explains many family and friendship relationships I’ve had over the course of my life.

I used to be extremely Codependent until a few years ago, and during the time I was Codependent, I often attracted Vulnerable Narcissists, or self absorbed, perpetually angry (or depressed) people, who would contact me mainly to complain to me about their problems, where they’d expect me to just listen and give empathy, something I did for many people for many years, and it left me mentally exhausted.

And those who used me as their “Free Therapist” rarely did anything to work on their own problems or their own mental health.

Such persons preferred to take their frustration, disappointment, pain, or anger in life, and phone or text me about it, and make their pain my pain.

It’s as though some of them wanted me to handle or carry their inner pain for them, so they wouldn’t have to face it or carry it themselves. But no person can do that for another person. It’s something we must each do for ourselves.

And the people dumping all their pain or anger in life on me very rarely (or never) allowed me to discuss MY pain or MY frustrations in life with THEM.

When you are a people pleaser, an emotional dependent, a Codependent, or an empath with no boundaries, you will often end up in these unfair friendships (or marriages), where you’re meeting the needs of the perpetually wounded or disordered person, but they generally refuse to meet your needs in return.

(Link):  The Narcissist’s Constant Victim Role

Excerpts:

by Renee Swanson

Covert narcissists are constant victims. Everyone has done them wrong. Everyone has injured their precious ego at some point or another.

The whole world is responsible for their anger, negativity, lack of initiative, lack of motivation, and even their lack of empathy. From the tiniest injury to the grandest, the narcissist continues to be the never-ending victim.

This causes all relationships with the narcissist to be strained and exhausting.

When the narcissist plays the victim so well, it leaves you with two roles in life. You are either the therapist or the enemy. You are either the rescuer or the perpetrator.

The trouble is that healthy people do not want to play these roles with their loved ones.

Your Role as a Therapist

Healthy individuals recognize that they cannot serve as a rescuer to their parent, spouse, adult child, friend, boss, etc. When a person is constantly relying on your approval and validation in order to feel good about themselves, this is not a healthy situation.

You are not helping them or yourself. You are not their therapist and should not serve as such. They need to be working on their own problems on their own, just as you should be with yours.

… Your Role As Enemy

… That peace, however [that you get from constantly apologizing to the Covert Narcissist], will be short-lived. There are not enough apologies in the world to satisfy the victim role of a narcissist.

Their pain comes from within, and yet they constantly look for external reasons and external solutions. Those solutions will NEVER be good enough. To stop being the perpetrator, you have to set your own boundaries and walk away.
— end excerpts —

You’ll note in this next blog post, excerpted below, how being married to this Covert Narcissist of hers, whom she refers to as Steven (not his real name) for 21 years did not bring this lady any joy or peace.

She does say in other podcasts or blog posts, and I think maybe this one, that there were a few moments of happiness with her husband here and there, but ultimately, her spouse would display his sullen, entitled, insensitive nature the majority of the time.

The thing about abusive or toxic people is that they are rarely abusive or toxic 100% of the time.

Abusive or toxic individuals have moments or days where they can be fun, loving, or considerate – so, you end up thinking the relationship is not so bad; it’s intermittent reinforcement (which I believe plays a role in “trauma bonding,” or is the basis of it) – that combined with fear and false hope can keep someone stuck in a terrible relationship for years.

Remember, just because your toxic or abusive person (family member, spouse, friend, whoever it is) occasionally acts nicely towards you, or treats you to a lovely dinner on your birthday, gifts you with a wonderful vacation or a ruby necklace, or whatever nice gesture or gift
– does not excuse or make-up for the rest of the relationship, where they are constantly invalidating you, neglecting you, nit picking you, overtly abusing you, or exploiting you!

Narcissists are known for “Love Bombing” their victims. You will waste years of your life on this person, longing to “bring back” the nice, sweet, kind funny version of them that they first put on display when you were first dating (or befriending) them, but that was a fake persona. It was never genuine.

The person who chronically invalidates or who ignores you now is the “real” them.

You’re never (permanently) getting back to that fake “nice, charming, loving” version of them again, unless they sense you are going to dump them, in which case, they will temporarily put on the “nice guy” (or the “I’m a poor, helpless victim in life, please help me, rescue me”) mask again (called “hoovering“) to “breadcrumb” you. Don’t fall for it.

(Link): How the Covert Narcissist Plays Rejection, Abandonment, and Abuse

Excerpts (you should read her ENTIRE post, not just the portion below):

by Renee Swanson

My marriage lasted almost 21 years. For most of these years, I convinced myself and the world that I had the perfect marriage. We were simply great together.

There was no other option available. The mind is powerful and can do amazing things. I truly believed that it was a match made in heaven and that he was perfect for me.

…Besides we had some really good days in between these outbursts. So I swept it under the rug every time and continued to believe that our marriage was great and wonderful.

Ever so slowly, my eyes started opening. …

More Christian Abuse Survivor Infighting – Yikes – this time it involves ‘Sacred Wilderness’

More Christian Abuse Survivor Infighting – Yikes – this time it involves ‘Sacred Wilderness’

Several months ago, Christian abuse survivor advocates were ganging up on Christian journalist Julie Roys – I wrote a blog post or two about it, like (Link): this one. I’ve been meaning to write another post or two about it but didn’t get around to it (maybe some day – a lot of Christian abuse survivor advocates are appallingly ignorant about Codependency).

This time, there was another “Civil War” among Christian abuse survivor advocates, some of the names or groups I do not recognize.

Someone named Johnna Harris (who runs or is somehow affiliated with a group called Sacred Wilderness) was being accused of things, and attacked for weeks on end, by another so-called Christian abuse survivor advocate calling himself Kyle Howard. Also, staff or volunteers of SW (Sacred Wilderness) were accusing higher ups at SW of abuse or something.

Again, I’m not familiar with everyone in this drama, so I’m not sure who started what and why, and who is pushing what agenda – well, after having read through the PDF mentioned below, I now have a better idea, but it’s a somewhat long and convoluted mess.

This SW group hired a third party to investigate them, to ensure they were above board.

They released their findings of this third party in (Link): an open letter, Organizational Assessment with Pellucid Consulting,  and a PDF file (I believe the PDF file is linked to at the bottom of the open letter).

Excerpts from the open letter:

Kyle Howard has personally tweeted many hurtful lies towards one of our founding members, Johnna Harris, including tagging her in an email claiming that she was fearful Kyle would try to sexually assault her. This is just one example of hundreds of tweets that we have screenshots of directly targeting Johnna or her work.

Our former employee tweeted on multiple occasions that we chose to do an assessment over an investigation. He said that was wrong because since abuse claims had already been made we should have gone straight to an investigation.

We interviewed and reached out to several corporate investigation companies, both secular and non-secular.

After reviewing our situation with associates of three companies, none of those companies thought we qualified for an investigation. Things they brought up were that we “were not a company with a history of abuse,” “this is too small for them to take on,” and “this just sounds like a corporate conflict where you need to amicably part ways and move on.”

There are so many examples of harmful things said about us that could have been included, but we encourage you to read the report to see more, specifically pages 38-48.
— end excerpts —

Nearly Half of Single People Receive Unsolicited Nudes, Get Ghosted: Poll – and a Few Dating Tips

Nearly Half of Single People Receive Unsolicited Nudes, Get Ghosted: Poll – and a Few Dating Tips

The page I’ve linked to below has some “first date dating tips,” a few of which I’ve included in my post.

May I add another tip or two (this is especially for single women), and this is also applicable to friendships, family relationships, and any job you have (your co-workers or bosses):
Please spend time researching Narcissistic Abuse and Cluster B personality disorders (which includes but is not limited to Narcissism and Sociopathy).

Particularly if you are a woman, and you’re a shy, people pleasing or codependent woman, you may be prone to over-sharing when you meet someone new (whether a date, a co-worker, etc) because you mistakenly think that sharing personal details when you first meet someone will establish intimacy.

You need to throw that thinking, assumption, and behavior into the trash can immediately.

One reason you do NOT want to overshare early in a relationship (as one of the tips gets into below – and remember, this is applicable to friendship and co-workers too, not JUST dating) is that the person you are dating might be a Cluster B,
and a Cluster B person will exploit any personal information or weaknesses you admit to, or that they can pick up from observing you, to control or manipulate you as the relationship progresses.

Such persons (especially Vulnerable Narcissists) will get you to talk about yourself WAY too much on a first or second date (and of course psychopaths and sociopaths will use this strategy too, but it seems to be a little more of a classical move that Vulnerable Narcissists play).

They may start out acting very, very interested in you, asking you all sorts of questions about what makes you “tick,” about your background, what kind of family you come from, etc.

You need to be careful how much or what type of that information you share.

You can also choose to refuse to answer any questions out-right, just tell the person, “I choose not to answer that question.” If they keep pressing or nagging you into giving an answer, just keep repeating over and over (however many times necessary), “I decline to answer that question.”

You do not always owe other people answers (not all the time with all people in every situation – this is highly context specific, but on a first, second, third, fourth, etc., date, NO, you do NOT owe your date answers to any or all questions!), nor do you owe people justifications or explanations for whatever choices you make in life, either.

Vulnerable (also known as Covert) Narcissists (and other Cluster B persons) try to pry into your personal business and learn about weak areas and regrets as much as they can, not because they truly care about you or your background, or your likes, your triggers, or your vulnerabilities, but they want that information so that they can use it to exploit and control you with later on.

They will eventually intentionally bring up your triggers, your weak spots, and/or shame you with painful or embarrassing things you admitted to them on a first or second date.

For example, if you admit early on in a relationship to always having had body issues and insecurities, to feeling embarrassed about not being stick thin, then as time moves on, they will more than likely start mocking you about your weight, or making thinly veiled insults
– like if they walk in seeing you eating a slice of pie, they may make a low key snide dig like, “Oh, is that your second piece of pie today?,” or, “Do you really think with your weight issues you should be eating that?”

They are doing that kind of thing on purpose. It’s calculated to make you feel shame. It is deliberate.

They want to chip away at your self esteem so that you are easy to control, abuse, and manipulate.

Some of them, especially the Covert Narcissists, will sometimes feign innocence and act as though they really and truly DO care about your weight and your health when they make comments about you eating another piece of pie. But they don’t actually care about your health or your weight.

Their end goal is to shame you more so they can control you, and you unknowingly tipped them off early in the dating stages that they can use your sensitivity about your body image / weight to clobber you with down the road.

One good book on this topic to get you started, what to look for early on in dating (or in forming friendships, or what to look for on job interviews to make sure you’re not walking into a toxic work environment with an abusive boss or co-workers),
and to learn about some of the typical emotionally manipulative games Cluster B persons play on their targets, is this book:
“Psychopath Free” by Jackson MacKenzie.
The book “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker also offers a few similar insights. 

(Link): Nearly half of single people receive unsolicited nudes, get ghosted: poll

by Jack Hobbs
March 28, 2023

Single people who’ve been ghosted or sent an unsolicited nude photo — you’re not alone.

A new poll revealed that nearly half of the single people asked have been victims of nasty dating etiquette.

The dating app Plenty of Fish created a survey along with a dating guide in partnership with life coach Michelle Elman to help single people avoid “undesirable dating behaviors and engineer more positive experiences.”

“Helping daters understand and navigate different behaviors on their dating journey is something I’m really passionate about, which is why I’ve partnered with Plenty of Fish to create the Desirable Dating Guide,” Elman told the Sun. “The guide highlights some of the negative behaviors and experiences that can occur in the dating world, while also shining a light on how singles can enact some positive change.”

According to the survey, which sampled nearly 4,000 British singles, 48% of respondents said that they received unsolicited nude photos from a match or date — with 45% of the 48% revealing that it made them feel disgusted.

Woman Podcaster Killed by Former Male Listener Who Became Her Stalker – Good Lesson in Using a Pseudonym Online, Not Befriending Your Listeners or Readers IRL (ATTN: Codependents and Empaths)

Woman Podcaster Killed by Former Male Listener Who Became Her Stalker – Good Lesson in Using a Pseudonym Online, Not Befriending Your Listeners or Readers IRL (ATTN: Codependents and Empaths)

The following news story, of a male podcast listener who began by befriending, then stalking, a woman podcaster (before murdering her and her husband) is one reason of a few why I like to stay Anonymous on my blog.

I’ve been screamed at in years past (by liberals, progressives, and at least one conservative man) for not writing under my real name here or on my Twitter account, or for refusing to divulge this information to them privately when they e-mailed me or tweeted me about it.

Some of these readers get infuriated and vehemently demand that I reveal more details about myself, including my real name – when it’s none of their business.

The liberals and progressives obviously want my identity only so that they can harass me off-line and get me fired from any job I hold. That is their intent – I knew that years ago, before progressive cancel culture began in earnest.

During the years I used to be very empathetic and a total Codependent, I intuitively knew to keep overtly hostile, controlling people at arm’s length.

However, it took me much longer, after accumulating life experience and researching topics later in life, such as Vulnerable (Covert) Narcissism and Sociopathy, to be on guard for subtle, non-aggressive, emotional manipulation, where a person will use guilt trips, kindness, and so on, to chip away at your boundaries in a very nice manner.

Some of these dishonest, troubled individuals will use your kindness and empathy against you to manipulate you into doing what they want.

I’ve had a few people I’ve met online pester me about something I initially told them “no” in response to, some request they made, but they pestered me in a very friendly, kind-hearted way to drop one or more of my boundaries, so they got me from saying “no” to saying “yes.”

That one lady, “Emma,” who approached me to befriend me online (that I talked about here, among other posts – she came across my twitter and this blog and approached me, I did not approach her) spent about a year to year and a half, very politely pursuing me, jovially and cheerfully hounding me to cave in and let her know more about me.

I kept politely telling her “no” for many months, but I finally caved in and befriended her on other social media sites; I let her get to know more about me after a year or more of her friendly pestering. I should’ve stuck to my boundaries and kept her at arm’s length.

Back then, it was more difficult for me to spot when people were using (fake) kindness to get me to lower my boundaries: I had my guard up at that time against hostile (the rude, angry, demanding) attempts, which are easier to spot.

Also, if you’re an empath, a people pleaser, or a codependent, this may be eye opening for you, but:

1) not everyone is as kind hearted, giving, and empathetic as you.

Stop assuming others are as loving as you are.

Stop projecting your kindness and empathy on to other people.
Some people, due to having personality disorders, are literally incapable of having empathy, but they will use yours against you to exploit you.

2) You have to become more choosy about who and when you give your affection, empathy, and time (or money) to

Almost everyone in life is undergoing some kind of problem.

Almost everyone is still walking around (even into their 40s and older) with left over wounds from childhood.

Many people, even into their 40s, 50s, and older, are lonely (even if they’re married, they’re being emotionally neglected by their spouse).

A lot of people are hungering to be heard, seen, and listened to and empathized with.

Many of these hurting, lonely, lost, emotionally needy or wounded people would love nothing more than to have an empathetic emotional rock, a caring sounding board, who they can rely on to get their emotional needs met.

If you allow them, they will call or text you daily to weekly to monthly to complain about their pain (both physical and emotional), how others have let them down and hurt them, or how nothing in their life ever works out, or how they were abused or misused by their family or ex spouse.

You will hear (in great detail, for hours, over months to years) about every pain and frustration they’ve ever had in their life, and/or whatever their current problems are.

You cannot save such people, no matter how much empathy, attention, and emotional support you give them: and it will never end.

These types of people (some of whom have BPD or Vulnerable Narcissism) are endless black holes of emotional need or emotional dis-regulation with an identity crisis, asking and demanding that you fill those needs, regulate their dysfunction, and provide them with a stable identity.

However, you cannot do any of that constantly or permanently for them, no matter how loving and kind you are. You’re just human with your own needs to deal with.

And they will very rarely give you support and validation in return. They will drain you dry, leaving you mentally (and perhaps physically) exhausted.

If you have a blog, video channel, podcast, or some other way you are online publicly, I’d advise using a fake name, no matter how many temper tantrums some of your readers or listeners pull.

If you use your real name on your video channel, blog, or podcast, be very careful about who you permit into your life.
This is ten times more true if you have poor boundaries, you’re overly empathetic, are reluctant (or too afraid, or feel guilty) to turn other people down and say “no” to them, and/or you’re a codependent.

If not, you’re going to have one of these mentally disturbed lunatics possibly hunt you down IRL (in real life) and murder you.

Or, at the very least, they will start contacting you frequently, draining you mentally dry, wearing you down to the point of exhaustion, because they want you to give them constant emotional support, and they will make no effort to take responsibility for their own happiness and to make changes in their life.

They will come to depend on YOU to “make them happy” (which you and no other person can do), or to regulate them emotionally. You’re not obligated to be anyone’s compassionate free therapist.

Anyway, notice that being married did not keep this woman safe. Her stalker murdered both her and her husband. Being married didn’t give this woman a happy fairy tale ending.

(Link): Texas trucker, 38, kills Seattle ‘podcaster’ he’d been stalking AND her husband after climbing through a window of their $1m home: Victim’s mother escaped and called 911

March 10, 2023
by Jen Smith

A Texas trucker killed a Seattle podcast host he had been stalking and her husband last night after climbing through a window of their $1.6million suburban home.

Redmond Police say Zohreh Sadeghi, 33, was shot and killed by trucker Ramin Khodakaramrezaei, 38, last night. Sadeghi’s husband, Mohammed Naseri, 35, was also killed.

Police say Khodakaramrezaei was a listener and became so obsessed with her that she filed a restraining order against him. 

Court records obtained by DailyMail.com show there was a warrant for his arrest on charges of telephone stalking and stalking. The criminal complaint was filed against him a week ago.

At 2am last night, the trucker broke into the home in Redmond, Washington, shot her and her husband before turning his gun on himself.

Dear Abby: I’m Happy Now That My Abusive Ex is Dead

Dear Abby: I’m Happy Now That My Abusive Ex is Dead

 This is not the first time I’ve come across this sort of thing. I have another blog post or two from the past several years detailing letters by widowed women who say their dead husband was abusive or a big jerk, and they are thrilled the husband is dead.

(Link): Dear Abby: I’m Happy Now That My Abusive Ex is Dead

DEAR ABBY:
I have been a widow for six months.

My late husband was a physically and verbally abusive alcoholic.

I spent numerous nights in the ER waiting to be seen and nursed many black eyes throughout the years.

During all those years of abuse, which was witnessed by numerous friends and family, I remained faithful and dedicated to him and our marriage, but due to the toxicity of our relationship I was severely depressed and needed antidepressants.

I tried many times to get him help and had family interventions, only to end up being threatened with getting all my teeth knocked out.

Pathologies of Victimhood by R. Gunderman – The Danger of Victimhood Mentality

Pathologies of Victimhood by R. Gunderman – The Dangers of Victimhood Mentality

I wanted to explain a few things before I paste in excerpts from the article about victimhood by Gunderman, so nobody will misunderstand my views upfront.

I do think there are actual victims out there in life, including in the Christian church context. I am not denying that.

I recognize that sometimes painful or unfair things happen to all of us in life, and sometimes those painful things are due to other people’s cruelty, incompetence, negligence, or sins against us, and not due to any personal moral failings or choices we make.

Sometimes bad things happen to good people through no fault of those people. One can be more sinned against than sinner.

A few years ago, there was a guy on Twitter with several accounts (he seemed to be a Christian), all of which were disgustingly used to mock victims of church abuse or of sexual abuse whose churches tried to cover up the abuse.

I think he later deleted these accounts, or his accounts received so many complaints from others that Twitter deleted them all.

One of his Twitter accounts used the name “Victim Princess,” as if to suggest that any and all women who spoke out against abuse they received by their churches or by Christians was nothing but entitled, petty whining with no merit. I was appalled by his account.

This guy would do things like actually tweet rude or nasty comments at Christian women on Twitter who discussed how their church covered up their abuse by other church members.

Politically, I am a conservative, and I do not agree with the vast majority of liberal or progressive “woke,” intersectional identity politics, which is largely based on victimhood mentality.

In progressive identity politics, different identity groups end up competing for “who is the most oppressed and biggest victim in life,” which creates (not solves) all sorts of problems.

However, while I do think that the “woke” go over-board with their grievance culture mentality, that does not mean that people who complain about having been hurt in life are always lying, exaggerating, or trying to get special accommodations.

Out of Knee Jerk Dislike of Wokeness, Among Other Factors, Sadly, Too Often, Too Many Conservatives Minimize Actual Abuse

While some progressives over-play the “victim card” to exploit and manipulate others, it is still wrong for conservatives to deny, minimize, or to reject altogether that churches do usually cover up sexual abuse in their midst or by their members.

It is wrong for conservatives to fail to acknowledge the reality that most pastors and churches do in fact fail domestic abuse victims and constantly enable abusers.

I do think that most churches are insensitive and incompetent at handling abuse among their members, and that should change.

There is such a thing as a victim. People can be exploited, hurt, and abused by other people – that is not something that “woke” liberals and progressives are making up.

I’m a conservative who has been taken advantage of and bullied through my life by school mates, my ex fiance, siblings, co-workers on jobs, etc., and this through no fault of my own.

Victims do actually exist.

Conservatives can and have been abused and mistreated on an individual and group level, whether by liberal and progressive persons and policies, or by their spouses or bosses on jobs.

At one time or another, we’ve all been bullied, abused, harassed, exploited, or on the receiving end of rude or cutting comments, regardless of our identity or political beliefs.

It is therefore unrealistic and cruel for conservatives to act like any and every person who claims victim status is a sensitive snowflake or is lying about it.

Flip Side of Coin: People Who Choose to Stay in Victimhood Status (yes, it’s ultimately a choice), Refuse to Move Forward

However, I have seen people, and groups of people, who – whether they are actual victims or not – wallow in victimhood status and victimhood mentality, and this is not acceptable, either.

Some of those still participating in the “exvangelical” (ex-evangelical) tag over on Twitter in 2022, which has been going on for several years now, are one example of this.

I’ve seen so many people, under that “exvangelical” tag,  as well as non-ex-evangelical people I once befriended online,
or people (including family members I’ve had, real life friends and co-workers) who may have been honestly victimized and wounded in childhood or adulthood, but they remain “stuck” in their rage, anger, and hurt – they still think of themselves as victims, and they want to be viewed as victims.

They want to be endlessly coddled and validated.

These are people who are very resistant to, or who refuse to take, the only avenue out of the pain, regret, anger, and disappointment and into joy, peace, and happiness – which includes, after a period of grieving and anger (that comes to an end and does not go on indefinitely),

• accepting, once for all, what happened to them,
  realizing that remaining focused on external causes and other people (ie, their abuser or abusive church) is keeping them “stuck,”
• to make a deliberate decision at some point to move forward, whether they “feel like it” or not
  (i.e., to no longer stew in anger, to ruminate, stew in past wrongs done against them, to dwell on how life is unfair, to dwell upon the idea they are a good person who didn’t deserve the abuse, etc),
• to realize in order to change their life for the better, they will have to look inwards,
  which will allow them to get to the next healing point…
• take personal responsibility for their life, healing,
  and realize if you want your life to change,
  you will have to get active and make changes yourself
  – sitting around all day doing things like watching TV or complaining to people on social media about how life, your former church, God, or your abuser, treated you so unfairly
  (even if any and all those things are in fact true, ie, you WERE treated horribly and unfairly)
  – won’t ultimately help you in the long run, it won’t make the necessary changes;
  complaining frequently, and receiving validation that, yes, what happened to you was horrible and wrong, and yes, you were a victim who didn’t deserve abuse, will only offer temporary emotional relief but will not produce long lasting inner peace and happiness

Stewing in anger, hurt, and regret and enjoying or wanting to receive validation that one did not deserve to be abused, is all but a step in the overall journey of healing.
It is the first step… but too many victims want to stay in Step One forever and ever, rather than moving through the rest of the steps.

Yes, there should be time limits on how long you are angry, ruminating, and upset and wanting to receive validation – a lot of therapists and victims (and former victims) get upset when this view point is stated, but it’s true.

Maybe that time limit is different for each victim and should not be rushed – which is fine.

HOWEVER, I do not support any person staying mired in “victimhood land” perpetually.

Staying in step one – never getting over or past the anger and hurt, refusing to let go or from even considering to do so, being addicted to external validation like it’s a drug one craves and needs – is one huge component of what keeps people trapped in depression, anger, pain, and from enjoying the rest of their life.

If you feel perpetually wounded, hurt, or angry, as long as you keep shifting blame towards those outside you (even if yes, those others deserve that blame), as long as you continue to dwell on being angry at your abuser, at God, life circumstances, or former churches that treated you like trash, you’ll never be able to move on and enjoy life again.

You have to look inwards in order to move forward, and that is a choice one has to make, because it won’t instantaneously happen.

Furthermore, your emotions will never magically change on their own; you will never “feel” like getting up, making changes, and moving forward. It’s a matter or choice and self discipline.

So if your mindset is, “I will make changes and move on when I feel like it, when my emotions change,” that is never going to happen.

Moving on is more a matter of will.

While I do think there are actual victims out there (and anti-woke conservatives need to be sensitive to these persons),
I’m also aware of legitimate victims who cannot or who refuse to move on,

-and there are persons with Covert or Vulnerable Narcissism (a personality disorder – more about that on this blog (Link): here and (Link): here), a hallmark of which is holding a life-long self-pitying, victimhood mentality – these people, of their own accord, are mired in depression and misery of their own making, because they refuse to look inwards and take personal responsibility.

Covert Narcissists, for one, prefer to point the finger of blame for their misery at their family of origin, God, and / or their former church, ex-spouses, and so on. They never want to look at how their attitudes or actions keep them in a limited, unhappy situation.

Sorry for that very long intro, but I didn’t want anyone to get to the following link and excerpts and think by posting it that I am in denial that yes, at times in life, sometimes people have legitimate pain and grievances and can be honest to goodness victims.

I do believe there are honest- to- goodness victims out there and that these victims deserve compassion, empathy, and justice,
but – however –
I am also aware that, unfortunately, some people, whether legitimate victim or not, will milk and exploit a “victim” label to lash out at others, to demand special treatment (at the expense of others), and that  clinging to a “victim” identity and view of themselves will cause them to remain stuck in unhappiness.

I have more commentary below this link with excerpts:

Pathologies of Victimhood – the Essay

(Link): Pathologies of Victimhood by R. Gunderman – Victimhood Mentality

Excerpts:

by Richard Gunderman
November 13, 2022

[Piece opens by discussing the late Sacheen Littlefeather, who claimed to be a Native American but who was actually of Mexican descent. She wanted to be viewed as a Native American to depict herself as an undertrodden member of a victim class.
As someone who actually is part Native American, I don’t view myself as a victim, so I find her ploy strange]

…Everyone has experienced genuine victimization at some point in their lives. Some have been the victims of political persecution and violent assault, while others have suffered lesser slights, such as bullying, verbal insults, and interruptions when speaking.

Most of us have also experienced situations where presumed victimhood stemmed from a mistaken assumption—for example, a driver who “cut off” a fellow motorist by abruptly changing lanes might appear to harbor malicious intent, but it might turn out that he was merely attempting to get to the hospital as quickly as possible to be with an ailing loved one.

Some among us, however, have a habit of adopting a posture of victimhood too easily and too often, a tendency that can damage communities, interpersonal relationships, and supposed victims themselves.

They Put Their Faith in a God-Fearing Man Selling Them Tiny Homes. Now They’re Suing Him For Fraud – Christians: Please Learn the Red Flags, Research Cluster B Personality Disorders

They Put Their Faith in a God-Fearing Man Selling Them Tiny Homes. Now They’re Suing Him For Fraud – Christians: Please Learn the Red Flags, Research Cluster B Personality Disorders

Before I get to the links way below about a self-professing, devout Christian man who was allegedly swindling customers out of their very expensive purchases:

For any of you super trusting people out there – especially if you consider yourself kind, decent, empathetic and/or a Christian (though what I say below is also applicable to kind-hearted Non-Christians as well):

Please, please educate yourselves and accept reality.

There ARE people out there with what are called “Cluster B” personality disorders (such as NPD, malignant narcissism, or, they’re on the narcissism spectrum, or they are sociopathic or psychopathic) who cannot, or will not, have empathy (and on top of an empathy-deficit, sociopaths lack a conscience, too).

Not all of these Cluster B personality disordered persons are serial killers, as is often assumed(*) – but they all lack remorse and empathy and will use and abuse those in their paths, even their own spouses and family members! (*Some Cluster B personality disordered persons love to financially scam other people or financially exploit them, for instance.)

The primary drivers and motivations of Cluster B persons are control and dominance of other people.

These people can be your neighbor, sibling, parent, spouse, a friend, your boss, or a co-worker.

These dangerous persons can work as church pastors, doctors, school teachers, veterinarians, psychologists, therapists, plumbers, IT professionals, UPS delivery persons, mailmen, hair stylists – any and every occupation, even “care based,” charity based, or church ministry related ones!

These people have learned to “pass” as normal. They will pretend to be normal. Many will act as though they have compassion and empathy for others, but they do not.

Just because someone is working in a care-based occupation doesn’t mean they have empathy and are warm, nurturing, and have your best interest at heart.

Some narcissistic or sociopathic persons who work as therapists or as social workers INTENTIONALLY undermine their patients or others in their care. That’s one reason you must be careful when shopping around for a mental health professional, should you want to see one for treatment.

Some of these personality disordered persons will do things like say they are a “Jesus-follower,” a Christian, they will even volunteer for charity work, attend church regularly, and “play act the part” of loving, devoted Christ follower while simultaneously committing financial fraud (or other sins and crimes) against you or others.

And they do NOT CARE AT ALL how much it hurts your feelings or hurts you financially.

They are not sorry, and they never will be. They do not experience remorse or sorrow for how they hurt others.

Even the non-personality disordered abusive persons out there have very large entitlement attitudes, so their view on relationships is that being mean, lying, nasty, and controlling of or to you is getting THEIR needs met for them, their abusive behavior of you is working well for them, so why bother to care about you and your needs and how YOU are being hurt by them in the process?

They feel they have no reason to change for the better (this is from their perspective).

There is nothing you can do to fix, change, save, or help such persons (even most therapists agree such persons are beyond help or fixing), nor is it your responsibility to fix or change them.

Avoid them as much as possible. No amount of compassion, love, attention, pity, or empathy from you or someone else will change or fix such persons.

No amount of church attendance, Bible reading, or exposure to the Gospel or the teachings of Jesus will heal, change, or fix them.

This includes the marriage context: a wife being “more submissive” or “loving” towards a narcissistic or sociopathic husband will not “heal,” change, or fix the husband and cause him to stop hurting his wife.

Please do some research, and stop allowing people to take advantage of you! Look for the red flags.

Perhaps start out by reading books such as “The Sociopath Next Door” by Stout

(though, caution: in an otherwise very good and educational work, I think she sugar coats her descriptions of narcissism in her book too much – narcissists, especially at the moderate to high end of the spectrum, are essentially watered-down sociopaths, so far as I am concerned,
but, in her book, Stout makes narcissists sound more lovable, redeemable, reachable, and friendly than they actually are,
which contrasts what I’ve read in a lot of research by other mental health professionals and accounts by narcissistic abuse survivors who all specialize in the topic of narcissism),

or “Husband, Liar, Sociopath – How He Lied, Why I Fell for It & the Painful Lessons Learned” by O. N. Ward,
or “Becoming the Narcissist’s Nightmare: How to Devalue and Discard the Narcissist While Supplying Yourself” by Shahida Arabi.

There are many other books – and free online articles and videos – that describe all these issues.

Just because someone claims to be a Christian and acts really sweet, caring, and nice does NOT mean they will NOT abuse you financially, or will not abuse you physically, verbally, or sexually in private.

Because such people do exist, and they will abuse or exploit you.

Stop thinking the best of people, stop being so trusting, stop assuming that because someone talks favorably of Jesus that this must mean they are trust-worthy, and stop giving people third, fourth, and more chances if they’ve already hurt or lied to you twice!

Stop rationalizing their behavior, stop excusing it on the basis they told you they are having a bad day, they’re under stress, or they were abused as a child (whether they were or not still does not excuse their abusive or dishonest behavior).

Such attitudes and behaviors on your part, where you keep forgiving, pitying, trusting, and grant repeated chances and do-overs, is what enables alleged frauds like the guy in the article below to scam you in the first place.

I am not victim blaming anyone who has been abused or targeted by any of these abusers or scammers.

Here is where I am coming from:
I just want to pull my hair out in frustration in particular at how Christians, in their sermons, books, social media, blogs, and their attitudes, frequently encourage or pressure behaviors or attitudes in believers that encourage them to be very susceptible to attracting abusive people or con artists, or from eliminating them from their lives once they encounter them.

Christians are setting other Christians up to be attractive and easy targets and prey for sociopaths, narcissists, and other troubled and dangerous people.

Misguided Christian teachings about grace, forgiveness, compassion, helping one’s neighbor, turning the cheek, the “no divorce for any reason” teachings, and giving second chances, and Christian complementarians especially are really bad about this.

Christian gender complementarians promote “gender complementarianism,” where they strongly condition girls and women to adopt beliefs and actions that are indistinguishable from Codependency (ie, which includes things like lacking boundaries, being passive, etc), which makes girls and women reluctant to engage in perfectly healthy and normal actions, such as standing up to abusers or bullying behavior, and leaves them vulnerable from recognizing abusive behavior as being abusive in the first place.

Secular culture of course also re-enforces such harmful beliefs and behaviors in girls and women as well, via traditional gender stereotypes (see the book The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker for some examples; research by others has also been done in this area going back years with the same results being shown).

(Link): They Put Their Faith in a God-Fearing Man Selling Them Tiny Homes. Now They’re Suing Him For Fraud

People around the country who have paid Matt Sowash thousands of dollars for the small dwellings after seeing him on TikTok say he never delivered on his promises.

by Sept 20, 2022

By Deon J. Hampton

DENVER — A man who had been convicted of bilking investors out of thousands of dollars and who professed his love for God while selling tiny homes online swindled homebuyers out of their life savings for dwellings that were never delivered, three alleged victims said in lawsuits filed in federal and state courts.

Developer Matt Sowash, founder of the Colorado-based nonprofit Holy Ground Tiny Homes, promoted the small residences on social media, including to his 80,000 TikTok followers, with short videos portraying an upbeat, God-fearing man selling the American Dream — affordable homes with financing and no credit checks.

“For people that can’t pay for a house all at once, we can finance you. Holy Ground Tiny Homes. Get yours today,” Sowash said in one TikTok video.

“Great house, available now, around $45,000 is what this goes for. Come in and take it away,” he said in another video, wearing a T-shirt adorned with “Faith Over Fear.”

Sowash said in an interview that he never set out to take advantage of homebuyers, but he’s not sure he’ll be able to build the 250 homes already paid for, in full or in part.

…A plaintiff in one of three lawsuits filed against Sowash said in an interview that the builder’s persuasiveness and Jesus-loving persona convinced her to part with her hard-earned cash.

“That’s part of what sold me. He’s charming, convincing and I believe in God,” said Clara Virginia Davis, 24, an elementary schoolteacher in upstate New York.

Victim Blaming Codependents, or Victim Blaming People Who Exhibit Codependent Behaviors

Victim Blaming Codependents or Victim Blaming People Who Exhibit Codependent Behaviors

The concept of Codependency is not victim-blaming.

The concept of Codependency does not pathologize domestic abuse survivors,  targets of narcissistic abuse, or other victims of other types of abuse, contrary to a lot of online rhetoric I have seen, and I don’t care what psychiatrist with what degree behind his name has stated things like, “Codependency is victim blaming and pathologizing!” – that psychiatrist, despite his eight years in medical school, is wrong.

He is wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.

I disagree with him entirely. And I do not have to have a medical degree to see where he’s wrong, and to know that he’s wrong.

I am a recovered codependent, and I remain astounded at people, especially therapists, psychologists, and abuse survivor advocates, who should know better, who never-the-less keep peddling this trope that the concept of Codependency is victim blaming, or it’s too broad in scope to be of much use.

(There are actually other mental health professionals out there who do not believe that Codependency is useless, too broad, or that it pathologizes anyone.)

A few months ago, when news stories about Anna Duggar were more prominent – she’s married to convicted child pornography user Josh Duggar, former reality television show star
– and then, a little later, when so-called abuse survivor advocates, such as Ashley Easter started commenting on that and victim blaming Anna Dugggar, and Amy Smith of Watchkeep began attacking journalist Julie Roys, I kept seeing these people, and others who follow them, showcase a very stunning misunderstanding of, or in some cases, a lack of awareness of, Codependency.

I may in the future do more posts – ones specific to Ashley Easter, Anna Duggar, and the Amy Smith – Julie Roys fiasco from months back – but for this post, I wanted to address this topic via at least two videos I saw on Dr. Ramani’s You Tube Channel.

Dr. Ramani is a psychologist who specializes in treating victims of narcissistic abuse.

I actually like Dr. Ramani quite a bit, and I’ve seen and listened to many of her videos. I like her on a personal level, and I think she’s quite astute.

I do  not feel comfortable being critical of someone who I usually agree with often, and who I find to be personable, but Dr. Ramani made a few comments in some of her videos here and there, pertaining to codependency, which I didn’t entirely agree with.

And no, I myself do not have to be a psychologist or have a mental health degree to form opinions or conclusions based upon what I hear and see!

While I do not have a mental health degree, I am college educated, and I did spend the past several years researching mental health topics. I did take psychology courses in college, but that is not what I earned my degree in.

So, I may not be an “expert” on mental health topics (in a degreed sense), but I am not an entirely uninformed person.

Pop Singer Ricky Martin Slapped With Restraining Order, Reportedly After Breakup – with His Own, Much Younger Nephew

Pop Singer Ricky Martin Slapped With Restraining Order, Reportedly After Breakup – with His Own, Much Younger Nephew

Eeewwwww! EWWWW! Gross. 🤮

I did like a few of his pop songs back in the 1990s or early 2000s. This is gross. So gross and awful.

Aside from that, the age gap! May December relationships are gross. Here one person was age 50, the other is 21. 🤮

(Link): Ricky Martin accused of ‘incest’ crime in shocking Puerto Rico reports

Ricky Martin allegedly could be facing 50 years in prison following domestic violence allegations reportedly filed by his 21-year-old nephew.

(Link):  Ricky Martin faces 50 years in prison for alleged incest, domestic violence, per report

By Mark Heim
July 15, 2022

Ricky Martin’s alleged domestic violence accuser is his 21-year-old nephew, according to a report by Marca, a Spanish news website.

Earlier this month, a Puerto Rican judge approved a restraining order prohibiting the singer and actor from contacting the person who filed it, according to The Associated Press.

The unnamed petitioner reportedly dated Martin for seven months before filing the order under Puerto Rico’s domestic violence law.

…The report Friday identifies Martin’s accuser as his nephew, Dennis Yadiel Sanchez, 21.

 The “Livin’ La Vida Loca” singer’s brother, Eric Martin, per the report, identified the alleged victim. The case is scheduled for court on July 21. Marca is reporting that Martin faces up to 50 years behind bars if convicted. “This is what Puerto Rico’s laws state when it comes to incest,” the report states.

(Link): Pop Singer  Ricky Martin Slapped With Restraining Order, Reportedly After Breakup – with His Own Nephew

C. Weil
July 15, 2022

Pop icon Ricky Martin faces allegations of domestic violence and incest, stemming from a romantic relationship he allegedly had with his nephew.

According to Yahoo! News, Martin’s nephew, Dennis Yadiel Sanchez, has obtained a restraining order against his uncle under a Puerto Rican statute known as Law 54, which relates to instances of domestic violence.

Marca, a Spanish newspaper, reports that Martin, 50, and Sanchez, 21, recently dated for seven months, during which time, Martin supposedly subjected Sanchez to physical and psychological abuse.

Mischaracterizing or Misunderstanding Codependency (Re: Sexual Betrayal, and Julie Roys Book) – Christian Abuse Survivor Community On A Witch Hunt – Introduction

Mischaracterizing or Misunderstanding Codependency (Re: Sexual Betrayal, and Julie Roys Book) – Christian Abuse Survivor Community On A Witch Hunt – Introduction

Work on this post first began in April 2022, or maybe early May 2022. As I wrap this up, today’s date is May 24, 2022.

---

Introduction

Ever since Christian journalist Julie Roys began publishing reportage of domestic abuse cover ups, or child sex abuse cover ups, by John MacArthur and his church (such as this one), various JMac (John MacArthur) defenders have come out of the wood-work to dig up any dirt on Julie Roys that they can (these people are supposed to be Christians but behave as though they’re in a JMac cult, where JMac is their cult leader).

As for me, JMac is one of those Christian guys whose opinions I occasionally agree with, but I sometimes disagree with him, depending on the topic.

Based on a few of the tweets I’ve seen by Roys over the past couple of years, I don’t think she and I share the same political views – well, I suspect that is so, at least. I’m not 100% sure.

When I politely tweeted minor disagreements with Roys in the past on political related topics, Roys did not block or mute me.

It does look to me as though JMac (John MacArthur) and his church have grossly mishandled or covered up abuse in the church going back decades, which is wrong – his Fan Boys need to recognize that, own up to it, and stop defending JMac on these points and stop harassing Julie Roys, or whomever else, for merely reporting on these things.

At any rate, Julie Roys has a site where she sometimes publishes articles about church- or Christian- related topics. Some of them involve coverage of church sex abuse scandals and so forth, and I’ve followed her Twitter account for months to keep up with church related news stories.

Beyond that, I am not familiar with Roys, I’ve never met her in real life or spoken to her by DM or by phone.(*)

The fact that Roys reports on church scandals gets some Christians very upset and angry with her, and they harass her online.

It looks like Roys wrote a book, with another woman named Kay Arthur, entitled “Redeeming the Feminine Soul: God’s Surprising Vision for Womanhood,” and it was published in 2017. 

Digging Up Dirt

People who are upset with Roys for exposing JMac’s disgusting sexism and incompetence at dealing with abusers at his church caused these wacked-out, enraged, JMac Fan Boys (and maybe some James MacDonald fan boys) to dig up any perceived dirt on Roys that they could to try to demonize or discount her so the public will disregard anything she publishes about MacArthur.

(The JMac Fans are too dumb to realize pointing out any flaws with Roys still doesn’t invalidate her reports of JMac – her reporting on JMac can remain true even if one can discover something supposedly unsavory about her or her past behavior).

So the JMac Fan Club came across this “Redeeming the Feminine Soul”  book Roys wrote years ago, and they began sharing excerpts of it on Twitter about a month ago.

At the time, I read excepts from that Roys book that some of these Fan Boys had scanned and posted to Twitter.

How creepy is it, by the way, that these church boys are such ass-kissers of a pastor that they felt the urge to go combing through anything Julie Roys has ever said, published, or done, all so they could find something – anything – to pounce on her with – and the abuse survivor community ate it up, too. Also weird and disturbing.

(This is also what the woke left usually does, goes digging around for ten or twenty year old tweets or articles to use to harass someone today.)

So desperate are the fan boys of some of the churches or pastors that the Roys site has published exposes on, one of them seems to have fabricated some more accusations against Roys, posted it to You Tube, where it was then picked up and shared by Roys haters and over-zealous “abuse survivor advocates” (but then, I repeat myself) on Twitter.

Roys later released a rebuttal to the video, which you can read here:

(Link): Opinion: Former Harvest Volunteer Publishes Falsehoods; People Quick to Retweet

From that page:
(and this is the first time I’ve read past the first fourth of the page when I first glanced it over weeks ago, so… wow – Amy Smith’s, Ashley Easter’s, and their ‘abuse victim advocates’ pals’ obsession with, and vendetta against, Roys is worse than I first realized – I have more to say about this below):

Survivor advocates spread unsubstantiated rumors
(by Julie Roys – excerpts)

… But what’s most disheartening about Engleman’s video isn’t the video itself. Engleman has been producing angry, misleading videos for some time. Most people familiar with what happened at Harvest know to disregard them.

What’s disheartening is how a new audience is eagerly spreading Engleman’s rumors without verifying what he says. And people you’d expect to be wary of deceptive troll accounts are instead retweeting them.

For example, Amy Smith, an abuse survivor advocate, on Wednesday retweeted a tweet from an account titled “NOT Julie Roys.” The retweet advertised a “bombshell torching of Julie Roys” and linked to Engleman’s video.

[Roys includes screen shots on the page]

This is the same troll account that attacked me relentlessly for reporting child abuse coverup by John MacArthur and Grace Community Church.

 [More embedded tweets on the page by Roys haters]

The account also has labeled the survivor community “#VictimhoodCulture” and attacked Lori Anne Thompson with names I won’t repeat. This seems a strange bedfellow for an abuse survivor advocate.

Yet Smith has also been retweeting Protestia and David Morrill tweets, which is bizarre given those accounts’ track record for misogyny, sensationalism, and half-truths.
Morrill has similarly ridiculed the survivor community with the “VictimhoodCulture” hashtag, and does disgusting things like mock a racial trauma counselor for his lisp.

Smith’s embrace of these fringe and hateful voices is concerning.

Smith also published a blog Friday with Engleman’s video and leading questions.

Similarly, Ashley Easter, another victim advocate, retweeted Engleman’s allegations Wednesday night.

In response to Easter’s tweet, I tweeted information showing that Engleman’s allegations had been debunked by Rob Williams and Ryan Mahoney. I also offered to provide Easter with Williams’ email so she could talk to him herself.

Easter never asked for Williams’ email, but instead defended her right to “post opinions I think are interesting.”
— end excerpts from Roy’s page —

Some of the scanned material from Roy’s book that JMac fans posted involved Roys’ discussion of how, when she was in her early 30s and was a youth ministry leader at her church, she attempted to help a 17 or 18 year old troubled teen in her church class whom she calls “Sarah” in the book.

(I assume that “Sarah” is a fabricated name. Roys does not list a last name in the excerpts I saw. In other words, and I could be mistaken – but it looks like Roys kept “Sarah” anonymous,
so why some of Roys critics online said it was wrong for Roys to divulge some of Sarah’s personal details in this book was strange to me.
Nobody outside of Roys and Sarah herself, (if Sarah even reads the book), and possibly Sarah’s mother, will ever know who “Sarah” really is, so what huge difference does it make if Roys shared some personal details about Sarah in this book?
I personally have no idea who Sarah is, as the author did not give out Sarah’s last name, and I don’t think “Sarah” is even her true first name but is a pseudonym.)

So, this all begins with outraged Fan Boys of preacher JMac (John MacArthur) bringing this book up to attack Roys over, to attack Roys with, since they are angry with her for exposing JMac for the (Link): sexist, (Link): abuser-coddling hack he is.

And soon enough, if my understanding of events is correct and in proper chronological order, the usual “abuse survivor advocates” I have seen on Twitter for years (among these, I would include Ashley Easter and Amy Smith of the “Watchkeep” blog) – and others  – jumped in to the fray to essentially start hinting or depicting Roys as a groomer who (sexually, or spiritually) intentionally, maliciously, preys on 17 year old teen girls.

I think that is a very, very uncharitable and inaccurate way of filtering the whole thing.

Let me pause here to say that while I have generally supported and agreed with a lot of the work the abuse survivor advocates have done in years past, I at times, on occasion, do disagree with them on some topics.

Furthermore, I think they sometimes have over-reacted and have gone over-board – in regards to things and persons such as, but not limited to, Anna Duggar (married to pedophile Josh), ex-Christian Joshua Harris, and others – in how they react to or treat people they suspect of protecting or enabling abusers.

I’ve never been comfortable with their behavior in those areas, at times, and I think in regards to Julie Roys, they’re doing the same thing to Roys.

Christian Gender Complementarians and Far Left Woke Progressives and Transactivists – What They Have in Common

Christian Gender Complementarians and Far Left Woke Progressives and Transactivists – What They Have in Common

There are a few things Christian gender complementarians have in common with the following: the woke; progressives; social justice warriors; anti-Trumpers; exvangelicals (ex evangelicals); transactivists; critical theory advocates; BLM; Antifa, and anti-racists.

I don’t want to get into all the similarities I see among these seemingly- at- first- glance- totally- in- opposition groups, but one or two I did want to mention for now:

Both the Christian complementarians and the Progressives participate in “identity politics.” You’re not allowed to be an individual.

Complementarians divide people into the groups of “men” and “women,” and then ascribe gender stereotypes to both groups. They believe that all women are, or should be, passive, non-confrontational, and docile and enjoy crocheting tea cozies, for example.

If you’re a woman who is not passive, docile, or who does not enjoy knitting tea cozies and has no desire to do so, they either ignore you, or other types of complementarians may insult you or question your fealty to Jesus, the Bible, and the nuclear family.

The progressives, of course, put everybody into groups and then in sub-groups; the progressives will not only divide people up by biological sex, for instance, but if you are a “person of color” AND a woman, you’re now in a sub-group.

The progressives will then try to determine, via “intersectionality,” which group or sub-group is the “most” oppressed, and which ever group is deemed most victimized gets all the cookies (devotion, protection, attention, energy).

Members of these groups, who are declared to be most marginalized, are given carte blanche permission by woke liberals to treat other groups terribly, and to stomp all over other groups’ needs, rights, and concerns (one example of this on my blog).

Women Are Not Allowed to Have Their Own Opinions On Either Side, Christian Complementarian OR Progressive

Christian gender complementarians and woke, far left liberals (including transactivists, BLM supporters, and even a lot of progressive Exvangelical, anti-Trump persons, and some abuse survivor advocates) all have the distasteful, unfortunate habit of pressuring women to think a certain way.

All those groups also tend to guilt trip women or shame them when they won’t cave in to the pressure, and they also advise – more like command and dictate! – women to “let this group do your thinking for you. You are not allowed to question the group or its assumptions or opinions. You are not allowed to have or hold a dissenting view from that of the group.”

Women Who Disagree With Christian Gender Complementarianism

If you’re a woman who doesn’t agree with Christian gender complementarianism (or Christian patriarchy, which is essentially the same thing as complementarianism, but usually more severe),
complementarian men (and some of the women) in those belief sets will accuse you of being a liberal, a feminist, and/or a Democrat and will sometimes also accuse you of hating babies, men, meritocracy, due process, or the nuclear family.

The more crude, overtly sexist ones will also suggest on occasion you are “trying to be like a man,” you are “too old, past your expiration date,” you own 47 pet cats, and you never shave your legs.

Women Who Disagree With Progressives or Any Progressive View or Behavior

If you’re a woman who doesn’t agree with progressives on, well, any of their socio-political views (CRT, pro-choice, BLM, transactivism, etc), they will accuse you of being bigoted, racist, homophobic, transphobic, and/or of possessing “Internalized Misogyny,” and they’re rarely civil in how they express those views.
(This is, laughably and remarkably, after they stress repeatedly, especially in their online communities, how, unlike Trump voters and evangelical Christians, how tolerant and loving they are.)

Lundy Bancroft on Narcissists vs Abusers for The Audacious Life podcast

Lundy Bancroft on Narcissists vs Abusers for The Audacious Life podcast

The first half to two thirds of this video of what the speakers describe, how they describe the typical views of abusive men, is reminiscent of some Christian Gender Complementarians and their views, and what some complementarian adherents believe.

Especially if you are a Christian single woman who’s wanting to marry AND in particular you were raised by Christian parents or in a church that taught traditional gender roles (perhaps under the phrase or label of “gender complementarianism“) please pay special attention to the video below.

Under “gender complementarian” teachings (and just mainstream, evangelical or Baptist and Christian dating advice), Christian women have been taught to accept all sorts of toxic teachings and to accept on-going mistreatment from a spouse (and from other people in their lives).

Chances are good that if you’re a single Christian woman who was brought up to believe in gender complementarian teachings that you were heavily encouraged to adopt people pleasing or codependent behaviors, beliefs, and attitudes, which will make you attractive to abusers and people with personality disorders (many of whom can be abusive).

Additionally, if you do marry an abusive person (whether he is emotionally, sexually, verbally, or physically abusive) the majority of Christian churches and denominations teach women that divorce is not an option, not even in cases of abuse.

You (if you’re an abused wife asking a Christian for advice or help in regards to your marriage) will usually be told just to “submit more,” give your spouse more sex, and to pray about it – but none of those methods will change your spouse or cause him to stop abusing you.

There is nothing you can say or do that will get your husband to stop abusing you – (Link): nor is it your responsibility to try to fix or change your spouse in the first place.

You have to go into a marriage to a self professing Christian man knowing before-hand  that if your spouse turns abusive, that you must eventually divorce the guy, and you most likely won’t get any help or encouragement in that area from your church, church group, church friends, or pastor.

Most churches and pastors will shame, pressure, and guilt trip an abused wife to stay in the abusive marriage at all costs, because they value the institution of marriage above the safety and mental health of the abused wife.

If you’re a Christian woman in an abusive marriage, your church, church friends, and your preacher will never, ever give you permission to divorce – but you don’t need their permission or approval – you just need your own. It’s your life, not theirs.

(Link – to video on You Tube): Lundy Bancroft on Narcissists vs Abusers for The Audacious Life podcast

Excerpts, video description (from text below the video on the You Tube page):

I’m happy to interview Lundy Bancroft, author, and expert on male abuse behaviors and tactics.

Lundy has 30 years experience working in the field of abuse. His book “Why Does He Do That” is a one of the first I read and it helped tremendously.

Lundy is a lifelong advocate for the safety of women and children and it shines through in his books. You may be wondering whether you’re in a relationship with a Narcissist or an Abuser or someone who’s both.