Why So Much Fornication – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

Why So Much Fornication Among Christians and Secular Society – Because Christians and Secularists Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

Take a look at this quote I placed in bold-face, in an article I pasted into my previous post (see comments by me below this excerpt):

(Link): Advice Needed: My Pastor’s Sex Talk is Too Much

I recently read a blog entry from a user that was concerned about the teachings of her pastor and if she and her husband should leave the church. My situation is very similar…only to the nth degree. Here are a few excerpts of things my pastor has said (and continues to say) in many of his sermons…and at any given time. (Note: sexual descriptions have been toned down by editors)

2. In the middle of sermons, he felt compelled to find out who in the church was fornicating. He proceeded to ask each and every unmarried member: “Are you screwing?”

At the very least, this gross, vulgar pastor at least phrased the question “Are you screwing” and not “WHO are you screwing,” but that he found it necessary to ask singles about this shows he, like many Christians, expect that most singles past the age of 25 are engaging in fornication.

Also, the pastor needs to ask his married members: “Who are you having sex with?,” because married people have affairs, hire sex workers, and look at dirty web sites. His question presumes only singles have sex outside of marriage, which is incorrect.

One reason singles are fornicating (having sex outside of marriage) is because they are expected to. Nobody in the church or in secular society expects that anyone can control his or her sexual behavior for more than two seconds.

There are Christians who are virgins into their 40s and older, ones who hoped to marry and who have NORMAL sexual drives, so quite obviously, it is a lie and distortion for pastors, Churches, and for Hollywood to keep insisting it’s abnormal, weird, strange, or too unrealistic to expect anyone past a certain age to refrain from sex.

Churches need to raise the bar higher. Stop assuming all your singles are fooling around.

Start talking as though you know they are not having sex outside of marriage, and watch as at least some segments of singledom… stop screwing around.

Singles are told constantly by preachers, churches, lay person Christians, Christian dating material, books, TV shows -and by secular society- that it’s inhumane, unfair, or impossible for them to refrain from sex longer than two seconds, so do not be surprised when singles shrug their shoulders and say, “Well okay then, even the preacher says I can’t be expected to abstain, so I’ll dive right into sex!”

One myth that feeds into the erroneous Christian view that singles (or marrieds) cannot live without sex for longer than two seconds is the misunderstanding about celibacy: it is not a “gift.” (Link): No where does the Scripture say that singleness or celibacy are “gifts.”

Not all singles choose to be single. Not all singles have been “called to singleness” or “gifted with singlehood” or “called to celibacy.”

Some singles like me had hoped to marry and have sex. I did not deliberately choose to be un-married this long.

God did not grant me any kind of special super power that removes all libido, sexual desire, nor was I granted with some supernatural disinterest in hot, hunky, muscular blue eyed dream-boats.

I’m an ordinary HETERO with normal desires for sex and married companionship. I don’t have some special gift, power, ability or “super power” or “calling” that empowers me to abstain. I don’t feel Christ giving me special grace to refrain from sex.

Celibacy is a matter of choice, self-control, and good old-fashioned self-discipline. If I, a normal mortal with a normal sex drive, can forgo sex this long, so can you.

If churches began showcasing virginity and celibacy as reasonable expectations, not as something only a few with Magical Super Powers can achieve, we might see more Christian singles avoiding sex outside of marriage.

That, and preachers need to shut up about sex from the pulpit, as in “Married sex is great!”

Singles don’t need to be exposed to the constant “married sex is awesome” sermons every other Sunday.

Preacher, would you go on and on every week about how great and yummy potato chips and chocolate cake are in front of your chubby friend who is dieting? No, you would not, because that would be rude.

So stop dangling sex in front of a room full of congregants who are single and trying not to have sex.

Some preachers are clueless idiots – they’re not “upholding” marriage with all the marriage sermons, they are un-necessarily torturing their single audience members.
Related posts this blog:

(Link): No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity (it’s actually quite the opposite: sexual purity is under attack by Christians these days)

(Link):  A Father Tries to Deny His Daughters Birth Control Coverage – I take this as another indication that conservatives do not truly believe in celibacy or sexual purity

(Link): Editorialist at WaPo Argues That Single Christian Adults Can Have Sex So Long As They are Chaste About It – Also Speculates that Jesus Was “Probably” Celibate

(Link):  Let’s Kiss Dating Hello – Ring By Spring Culture at Christian Campuses, by N. Sheets

(Link): Christians Speaking Out of Both Sides of Their Mouths About Sexual Sin – Choices and Actions and How You Teach This Stuff Has Consequences

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Southern Baptist Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Ever Notice That Christians Don’t Care About or Value Singleness, Unless Jesus Christ’s Singleness and Celibacy is Doubted or Called Into Question by Scholars?

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”

(Link): If the Family Is Central, Christ Isn’t

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re Celibacy

(Link): Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)

(Link): More Anti Singleness Bias From Al Mohler – Despite the Bible Says It Is Better Not To Marry

(Link): Christians and Cheap Grace Concerning Sexual Sin

(Link): Sometimes Shame, Guilt, and Hurt Feelings Over Sexual Sins Is a Good Thing – but – Emergents, Liberals Who Are Into Virgin and Celibate Shaming

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link): (Link): When Adult Virginity and Adult Celibacy Are Viewed by Christians As Inconvenient or As Impediments

(Link): Do You Rate Your Family Too High? (Christians Who Idolize the Family) (article)

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Link): Christians Using Fornicators as Examples or Role Models of Sexual Purity Rather Than Using Christian Celibates and Adult Virgins: Odd

(Link): False Christian Teaching: “Only A Few Are Called to Singleness and Celibacy” or (also false): God’s gifting of singleness is rare – More Accurate: God calls only a few to marriage and God gifts only the rare with the gift of Marriage

Preachers Who Use Strippers, Hula Girls, Topless Hunky Men, and Strip Poles During Church Services and Give Sex Diplomas to Teens – Yes, Really

Preachers Who Use Strippers, Hula Girls, Topless Hunky Men, and Strip Poles During Church Services and Give Sex Diplomas to Teens – Yes, Really

Some pastors have not ruled out using strippers in future church services (anything to lure in the un-saved to church!), while others have used hula girls and topless muscular men.

The host of the following radio show also discusses Christian television show host’s Pat Robertson’s view point that all men are horn dogs who are sex-obsessed, so you can’t blame a man for cheating on his spouse. (I wrote about Robertson on this topic (Link): here and (Link): here).

Here’s the radio show:

(Link): PERRY NOBLE HASN’T RULED OUT USING STRIPPERS IN CHURCH (also mentions Pat Robertson’s views that all men are sex obsessed, and a church that used hula girl and topless men in services)

Related links other sites:

This next link below: the strict gender role stereotyping and the assumptions of what either gender wants is disgusting.

Not all men are into strippers, like football, and not all women are into teddy bears, hearts, rainbows, and being “touchie feelie.”

I had a male co-worker once who HATED sports (and he was HETERO, and he later got married to a woman and had a kid by her), and not only was this guy BORED with football and other sports, but he said he hated being around men who talked about sports incessantly.

Had a female co-worker who adores college football, and an Aunt who loves football.

My ex used to bring me roses and do other typical romantic stuff, and I usually didn’t care for it.

I was a tom-boy in childhood (I hated Barbie and other dolls; I preferred playing with trucks, Planet of the Apes action figures, etc.), and in adulthood, I differ from the stereotypical “girly-girl” churches expect women to be.

Churches need to stop perpetuating gender stereotypes, because people cannot be neatly categorized into little boxes. Even if 90% of all females are all “love ‘n rainbows” all the time, it makes the other ten percent feel left out and alienated in these sermons.

Also: a lot of women LIKE VIDEO GAMES, and I mean the violent ones, not “dress- a- pony.”

(Link): Maverick pastor gets crowds streaming into church after erecting a stripper pole behind pulpit

    A local pastor said he put a stripper pole on his pulpit to help preach his message.

    It may raise some eyebrows, but Pastor Mike Scruggs said he’s hoping it will save some marriages. Scruggs admits he’s anything but a traditional pulpit preacher.” We try to make it relevant, straightforward.

    We don’t sugarcoat anything,” he said. On Friday, Scruggs’ sermon series drew a packed house at the Light of Word Ministries on Colerain Avenue.” We talk about sex. We talk about drugs. We talk about faith. We talk about relationships…, things that people are dealing with on a day-to-day basis,” Scruggs said.
    The series of sermons is called the “Battle of the Sexes,” with some rather interesting visual props.” On one side, (we’ll have) what men want or desire: your stripper pole, your video games, your sports,” Scruggs said.

    “The woman’s side (is) orderly, neat. It’s all about love, candy, teddy bears, roses and being wined and dined and cherished.”

    Scruggs said his church focuses on real situations and brings godly solutions.” We push the envelope, that’s true,” he said.

Continue reading “Preachers Who Use Strippers, Hula Girls, Topless Hunky Men, and Strip Poles During Church Services and Give Sex Diplomas to Teens – Yes, Really”

Weird Dating / Marriage Advice by Joel Osteen

Weird Dating / Marriage Advice by Joel Osteen

In addition to (Link): old cliches for Christian singles and (Link): new cliches for Christian singles, there’s weird Word of Faith marriage / dating advice for Christian singles.

Example: Joel Osteen’s May 19, 2013 telecast, “Keep Your Vision in Front of You.”

In this broadcast, he advises singles who want to be married to put an empty photo album or photo frame by their bedside. Somehow this will usher Mr/Ms Right into their life.

Or something. I’m not really clear how that works. What if I think the male model in the free photo that comes with the frame is a real dream-boat, can I keep that in the frame and expect Mr. Male Model to wind up being my Mr. Right?

I know that might be shocking to some Christians, depending on what denomination you come from, because Christian males (and even some females) have been brainwashed into thinking that Christian women don’t care what a man looks like at all, as long as he’s “Mr. Spiritual,” we single women will over-look the beer gut.

I remember in a similar sermon from a few years ago, Osteen told a similar story, but that time, he told of a single woman who wanted to be married, so she bought a pair of men’s pants and put them on at the foot of her bed and prayed nightly that God fill the pants – ????? Yes, that’s how Osteen told the story.

Putting empty photo frames and empty pants around one’s room seems to be a very strange way of trying to get a spouse.

I really like chocolate. I had an empty wrapper for M&M’s candy on my desk for a long time, but God never replenished my M&M bag, like he did with the oil in (Link): 2 Kings 4. But then, I didn’t pray about it, so I have M&M’s not because I asketh-ed not for my M&M wrapper to be refilled, I suppose. See James 4:2.

But overall, I guess I can’t get into the “God will fill empty pants and frames” idea.

Here’s the sermon on You Tube:

Someone filed a complaint and the video was removed. I’ll see if I can find a copy. This might be it (“Keep Your Vision in Front of You”).

Dec 2014. The second video I put in here was removed, I’m trying to find a 3rd copy.

Edit. Aug 2016. The third copy was removed, on to find a 4th copy. 

Edit Dec 2016. Okay that version was taken down as well. Let me try again.

Seriously, if the chuckle heads at Osteen’s church have all these yanked, go to (Link): You Tube and do a search for “Joel Osteen Keep Your Vision in Front of You” and you can get a copy

Audio only:

Or try one of these copies:


Related posts:

(Link): When you show God you don’t want it, that’s when God will give it to you – according to Joel Osteen – I disagree

Too Many eHarmony Commercials

Too Many eHarmony Commercials

I’m one of those people who keeps the television set on while I’m working or playing on the computer, so I hear a lot of TV commercials. I have basic cable and watch a lot of AMC, History channel, and other channels.

For the last 2 to 3 months, it seems like eHarmony commercials have been on more and more often. Not a day goes by I don’t see ol’ Neil Warren Clark peddling “eHarmony.” (I also see match.com commercials quite a bit. And I don’t like those either, but they don’t seem as annoying as eHarmony spots.)

I tried eHarmony some time ago, and it didn’t work for me.

I hate eHarmony and am tired of their stupid commercials.

Neil Warren Clark and eHarmony can go suck on a rock.

I might consider posting a link to an actual recent eHarmony commercial, but here’s a parody video or two:

eHarmony spoof commercial:

Spoof by MAD TV

New-ish Christian Cliche’ About Singlehood: Don’t Waste Your Singleness -or- Make the Most of Your Singleness

New-ish Christian Cliche’ About Singlehood: “Don’t Waste Your Singleness” -or- “Make the Most of Your Singleness”

I really hate cliche’s, at least when they are aimed at someone who is upset or hurting about something.

Say, for instance, you are tired of being single, and you tell your married friend, “I sure wish I could meet Mr. Right!,” and she responds by saying one or more of the following:

    -“Be content in your singleness!”

    -“Don’t look for The One, BE THE ONE!”

    -“When you are mature / godly/ spiritual/ content/ (whatever) enough – that is when God will send you your spouse!”

    -(to female singles): “Lose weight and you’ll get a man in no time!”

    -(to female singles): “Grow your hair long and you’ll get a man, men loooove long hair”

    -(to female singles): “Don’t be so independent/ smart/ opinionated/ rich/ capable, it will scare men away; they need to feel needed!”

    – “Get out there and LOOK! A spouse won’t drop in your lap / appear on your front door step by magic”

    – “Serve in the church, that’s how I met my spouse”

    – “When you’re not looking that is when it will happen”

    – “Singleness is a gift! / Celibacy is a gift”

    – “Jesus is sufficient to meet all your needs, the Lord is your husband!”

    – “Join eHarmony (dating site)! It worked for my cousin!”

There are probably several more cliches I’ve forgotten, but you get the idea.

A new cliche’ that has been showing up more and more often the last year or two on Christian blogs and sites, especially in articles for Christian singles, are these:

“Don’t Waste Your Singleness” and the variation,

“Make Your Singleness Count”

I can only assume these got started because at some point, famous (now retired?) preacher John Piper (who makes my skin crawl, and he has sexist, warped views about women, and stupid, dangerous opinions about how domestic abuse victims should deal with abuse), wrote a book with a title like, “Make Your Life Count” or “Don’t Waste Your Life.”

Ah yes, I see from an online book seller, the book by Piper is called “Don’t Waste Your Life” and was published in 2004.

Then of course, we have all these preachers such as Platt and Idleman, who, the last couple of years, lecture Christians that if they don’t sell all their worldly possessions to go work in soup kitchens full time or live in a hut in Africa, they are not serious followers of Jesus and are not radical enough.(See (Link): this post)

So, I’m not exactly sure of the origins of “make the most of your singlness” or “don’t waste your singleness,” but I wouldn’t be surprised if Piper, Platt, etc. weren’t the inspiration.

Anyhoo. What does it mean, anyway? “Don’t waste your singleness?” Should I be in contemplative prayer round the clock every day? Handing out rice to African orphans?

Basically, the only thing you can say to singles in this area will be based on a work-based mind set: you must be performing like a circus seal for the Son of God!

No thanks, Christ said He came to give His followers rest, not more works to perform.

Singles don’t need more cliches and platitudes.

You married Christians, or (Link): you peppy and perpetually happy with your single status types, stop coming up with pithy, and what- sounds- to- you- like- clever one-liners. The cliches don’t cheer up singles, and they don’t make me feel any better. They’re cheap and annoying.
Related Posts, This Blog:

(Link): Singleness Is Not A Gift

(Link): Fifteen Things You Shouldn’t Say or Do To Your Single Friends

(Link): Annoyances of Being a Christian Single

(Link): The Problem with Platitudes – for Christian single over 35 years old never married

(Link): Stop Telling Your Single Friends to Try Dating Sites – Please.

(Link): Responding to the Cliche’ “Jesus Is All You Need” – Re Christian Singles

(Link): The Obligatory, “Oh, but if you’re single you can still benefit from my marriage sermon” line

(Link): Five Things Single Women Hate to Hear

(Link): Same Old Tired Advice to Christian Singles

(Link): Article: My Savior My Spouse? – Is God or Jesus Your Husband Isaiah 54:5

(Link): Following the Usual Advice Won’t Get You Dates or Married – Even Celebrities Have A Hard Time

Glad to Be Single – Husband Married to Woman Now Says He’s Homosexual And Wants Out

Glad to Be Single – Husband Married to Woman Now Says He’s Homosexual And Wants Out

I’m not the type who is always thrilled to be single all the time (see this post for more), but, there are some occasions where I do okay with singleness, or I laugh and feel relieved to never having been married when I see things like this… (I have additional comments below this letter):

May 20, 2103 letter to nationally syndicated “Ask Amy” advice colum:

    DEAR AMY: I have been married for more than 15 years and have two great kids (14 and 9) with my wife. My life is seemingly perfect from the outside. No one would suspect there was a problem, but I’ve been living with the knowledge that I am gay for more than five years.

    I didn’t figure out my sexuality until after I was married. I became very depressed. My life would be so much easier if I were straight. I do love my wife and my kids, but I’m not attracted to her and have not been for quite a while.

    Now I’ve met someone in a similar predicament. We have become best friends and share a lot of the same interests and values. We have developed very strong feelings for each other, and I could imagine a life in which the two of us were together.

    Should this other man and I continue to live a lie with our families and fake being happy, or should we tell our wives and kids the truth and have a potentially hurtful situation for everyone involved?

    Sometimes I think it would be easier to just not say anything and sacrifice my own personal happiness for my family, but I’m not sure how long I’ll be able to do that. What are your thoughts? — Confused

I wonder. He says he just happened to meet a dude like him – oh really? I bet he went trolling online for sites for homosexual guys is how he “happened to meet” the other guy.

This gets back to a previous post of mine: older, never married guys are often suspected of being homosexual or as being child raping perverts by some Christians (sadly, though, some Christians are too trusting and too naive, and child molesters find churches easy places of prey because of this), but there is a stigma to being a male past age 25 / 35 / 40 and not being married.

This post goes to show that even if a guy is MARRIED and WITH KIDS no less, that he might be homosexual or has homosexual attractions. It’s wrong for churches to assume that all single males are homosexual and that married men (ones married to women) don’t act out in a homosexual manner or have SSA (same sex attraction).
Related post this blog:

(Link): Stigmas and Stereotypes of Single Unmarried Never Married Men Over 25 or 30 Years of Age – They’re Supposedly All Homosexual or Pedophiles

(Link): Older Single Males are Pedophiles says nationally syndicated columnist Ask Amy

The Types of Christian Singles Who Annoy Me

The Types of Christian Singles Who Annoy Me: The Perpetually Sunny Happy Christian Single Who Is Totally Thrilled With Singleness; The Condescending Single Who Brays “Jesus is all you need, your earthly happiness doesn’t matter”; or the Single Who Is Too Spiritual About Singleness

I. The Perpetually Sunny Happy Christian Single Who Is Totally Thrilled With Singleness And Doesn’t Understand Why You Can’t Be Too

To clarify something: there are times when I feel relieved about being single, and there are other times it bothers me. I’m not wholly on one side of the fence or the other.

I was just saying (Link): in a post yesterday I get very pissed off and annoyed over these sunny attitude, Rose-colored- glasses- wearing unmarried women (sometimes men, but it’s normally a woman) who go on and on in their editorials for Christian singles about how they are golly gee whiz happy-happy to be single, they love living for just Jesus by golly!, and they say they cannot wrap their heads around singles who think that singlehood sometimes sucks. They think everyone should be as happy-happy with singleness as they are.

The fact is, some of us are not always happy with singleness 100% of the time, and your constant sunniness about it is unrealistic, irritating, doesn’t acknowledge the pain some of us go through at times, and by being so dang chipper about singleness, you’re sort of denying how most churches and denominations ignore or belittle singles.

II. The Super Spiritual Christian Single Who Likes to Say Over and Over: “Jesus and My Bible is All I Need and To Want Anything Else is Inappropriate, Especially In Church” (Single Who Is Too Spiritual About Singleness)

These are usually the ones who pipe up in blog comments in articles for singles who say church is for worship of the Lord and Bible devotions only, that’s all THEY want when they go to a church, they say they are deeply offended when “Brother Hank” or “Sister Sally” tries to play match- maker for them.

And, they say, singles should not be using church to find a mate, because that’s turning church into a “meat market.” And remember, according to them, church is for worship and Bible reading and study only, nothing else.

If you are the kind of single who wants to view church as a Bible study only, fine for you, but don’t sit there and lecture myself and Christian singles that it’s wrong for another Christian person to use church to meet a mate.

There are other reasons for the creation of the church besides worship, Bible reading, the Great Commission, and helping African orphans.

Continue reading “The Types of Christian Singles Who Annoy Me”

I’m Single, But I’m Still a Whole Person (article)

I’m Single, But I’m Still a Whole Person

I just found this page, published in May 2013 – have writers from Crosswalk been to my blog and cribbing my material?

Aspects of this woman’s editorial sound quite similar to trends I’ve been pointing to on my blog for a few months now, how over the past year or so, more and more pastors are like, “single people are only one-half, it takes 1 + 1 married to equal a whole.”

There are parts of this editorial I agree with, and parts I do not. I explain below it why I’m not totally on board with her piece.

As a side note, I am not 100% happy all the time being single, and these “Rah rah! I’m so awesomely thrilled to be single, just as I am, you should feel the way I do, yippee, just me and Jesus is all I need” type pep talks piss me off, and this editorial is sort of one of those “rah rah, I’ve found total satisfaction at being a single gal, so you should be that way too” type of op/eds.

(Link): “I’m Single, But I’m Still a Whole Person”
Emily Maynard, Emily Is Speaking
UpTuesday, May 14, 2013

The editorial:

    When some people write about singleness, it sounds like they’re codependent on an imaginary person. I read stories of longing and waiting and tears and I just don’t relate. I hear tales of emptiness though hope holds steady, or resolution despite hope-on-the-rocks, and I raise my eyebrows. I don’t doubt that these words matter and are true, true, true for people.

    But I don’t get it. Maybe I am a sociopath, but I just don’t get it.

    I don’t feel like half a person because I’m single. I only feel like that when my society, my Church, or groups of people who cannot see beyond their own coupled lives, push that half-hearted position on me. I only experience that when I read another Christian book about marriage that talks it up in glorious grandeur for two hundred pages, then adds “but being single is better because, as the Apostle Paul says, you can do more ministry as a single person!” I only feel like a footnote when people make my life a theological footnote.

    When I wake up in the morning, stretch luxuriously, rummage through the open and still unpacked suitcase on my floor from my trip last week, and put on the clothes I find there, I’m not doing anything differently than I would if I were married. I wouldn’t stop doing those things if I were partnered up. I wouldn’t be anyone different. I’d be Emily, through and through. I would still spend hours planning outfits for a trip and when I came home, I would leave my suitcase out, open, as a monument to my adventures. Okay, and my laziness.

    More than people asking me why I’m not married yet, I am tired of the assumption that I am not a whole person. I’m tired of people saying, “Oh, it will happen to you someday, and you will meet your other half and you’ll understand.” I don’t believe in magical solutions to anything or from anyone. Not even from God. Not even Jesus shows up to fix everything about my life; He sent me the odd, mysterious, whispering Spirit. I have to do the so-much-work of listening to Spirit. I have to practice at it. That Spirit invites me into my life, this wild mysterious wonder, where things grow out of other things breaking down into dirt.

    I would love to meet a match. That sounds like fun, in the same way that having deep, ridiculous inside jokes with my best friends are fun. It sounds good and hard in the right ways, like a run that exhausts but stretches your muscles so you can run a little longer next time. I like the idea of being partnered. But my best dating has happened at times when I am most sure that a spouse would not fix my life.

    And not because when I got it together, finally, my life happened, so don’t even start down that train. It’s like that because relating to myself and other people in healthier ways leads me to relate to myself and other people in healthier ways.

    I didn’t meet a magical man once I did X or Y. I enjoyed all people more when I started being more fully me.

    I’m not counting on a marriage to fix all the aches I already have. Those are mine. I’m not betting on any one person to be all the balm I need after my reckless tearing around this world. That’s why we have the whole Church to rise up together and proclaim that God is King and we live out this shocking new Kingdom.

    So, when I read stories of men and women who are living in a state of pining, I have a hard time relating. I believe them and I think it’s perfectly fine that other people are different than me. But like, let’s be real. Having a boyfriend has never made my life that drastically different or better.

    I still have to get up and put on pants (ugh) and go to work and learn how to be a decent human and write out my healing. I still have doubts and victories, frustrations and blessings. I am still a whole human, even when I am in love.

    I am still a whole human, even though I am currently single. I would still be a whole human if I were married.


Other than the “rah rah, I’ve found total contentment at all times with singleness, so should all women” attitude which pisses me off, here are a few other areas of concern I have…

As I’ve noted before on this blog, there are some very kook, fringe elements in Christianity that seriously teach that single women are not “full” or “complete” humans. They are Reconstructionists. They believe only married females and married males are 100% human, complete and in the image of God. Click here to read more about them and other nuts that teach that singles are not “real” people, not 100% in God’s image. See also this link and this link.

The woman who wrote this editorial doesn’t seem to realize there are honest to God religious kooks out there who claim to believe in Jesus and the Bible who seriously and truly teach that single people are only “one half” and not made in the image of God. It’s not just that singles are feeling this way, it’s that some idiots are actually, literally teaching this bullshit.

One of my other quibbles:

The author needs to be chastizing Christian culture and secular culture for making singles feel as though they are only “one half” a person. She doesn’t do that nearly enough; she lays most blame on singles for feeling incomplete.

If Christian singles feel like a half, not a whole, I’d wager it’s because there are branches of Christianity who teach this, if not directly, than indirectly.

Women are repeatedly told by preachers and Christians writers that their highest, or only calling, in life is so be a wife and mother. So don’t keep sitting there saying, “I don’t get it, why do so many women sit around pining for a spouse, feeling like they are half a person.” -Why? Because they are being pressured by churches and secular culture that both teach you aren’t someone ’til someone (ie, romantic partner) loves you.

Related links, this blog:

(Link): Why Unmarried – Single Christians Should Be Concerned about the Gender Role Controversy (Singles are Said to be Not Fully in God’s Image, are not “real” people)

(Link): According to Pastor It Takes One Man and Woman Married To Equal A Whole – so where does that leave Christian singles ? / Too Much Sex Talk

Salvation By Marriage Alone – The Over Emphasis Upon Marriage by Conservative Christians Evangelicals Southern Baptists

Salvation By Marriage Alone

Internet Monk asks, from a 2010 entry (at least I think it’s from 2010, I may have the year wrong), have evangelicals and Baptists placed too much emphasis on marriage?

To which I would reply: Does the Pope wear a funny looking hat? Do bears crap in the woods? Is water wet?

(Link): Have We Said Too Much? (About Marriage, that is)

And, on that page, I.Monk links to:

(Link): Is Singleness A Sin?

Excerpts from “Have We Said Too Much? (About Marriage, that is)”

Recently, my daughter returned from a conference at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville. She had a fabulous time, but she mentioned something unusual. She said that every public prayer contained a request for God to guide the conference participants in finding a spouse. This wasn’t the theme of the conference, but the conference was primarily single young college students. Was this odd?

It didn’t surprise me. Southern has become increasingly visible in the culturally confrontational Christianity of its President, Dr. Al Mohler. (A personal hero of mine, and nothing that I write here changes that, I assure you.) And Dr. Mohler is on a crusade to get Christian young students to make marriage a priority.

In August 2004, President Mohler gave an address to a group of (primarily) Christian singles under the auspices of Josh Harris’s New Attitude conference. Mohler’s summaries of the address can be found at his web site: Part 1 and Part 2. The audio of the address is also available on the site.

The address created a bit of a firestorm, as Mohler did not just endorse marriage, but specifically criticized those who delay marriage.

[snip obnoxious quotes about singles by Mohler]

This debate is a small part of what I see as a major evolution within evangelicalism; an evolution toward overemphasizing marriage at the expense of much that is Biblical, good, healthy, balanced and normal in human and Christian experience. From the best of motives, some bad fruit is appearing.

…How can we over-emphasize marriage? Let me suggest some trends that disturb me, and make me want to suggest a larger, more critical discussion of the current “family values” emphasis before we buy everything that is being sold in all the current rhetoric.

1. Saying that delaying marriage is bad is overemphasizing marriage. This is too simplistic, and we all know it. Don’t get me wrong. Mohler sees a legitimate problem: singleness as an excuse for immaturity and rejecting legitimate adult responsibilities. There are such people. I’ve met them. Kick them in the pants.

On the other hand, there are so many other legitimate, good reasons people delay marriage, it’s almost beyond belief that they are ignored. Mohler is speaking to the culture that he sees influencing America in sitcoms like “Friends.” Let me speak about the single’s culture I see at our ministry here.

…thers are single because they have no real marriage prospects. Some are delaying marriage to care for parents or to pursue a larger career path beyond OBI… Of course, we also have divorced and widowed singles as well.

Frankly, many of the singles I know are more mature than I was when I was first married at 21. I absolutely encourage our high school students to delay marriage until they have matured in many different ways. Mohler is right to point out that marriage is a maturing experience, but it is not the only maturing experience, and it is not an automatically maturing experience. …

…Sometimes, listening to the current advocates, you would think that marriage is unfallen, or at least a refuge from the fall. While I agree it is a common grace, and even has sacramental qualities, it is thoroughly fallen and is not our salvation.

2. We overemphasize marriage when we say only “spiritually gifted” singles are truly in God’s will. Again, when Mohler talks about those called and gifted to be “single” as the only “normative” singles, he is running along a very narrow path, with plenty of ways to fall off.

The contemporary concept of spiritual giftedness has proven to be far from perfect or even helpful in many cases. I have done far more counseling with individuals who were confused about their spiritual gift than those who were finding assurance and joy from knowing their spiritual gift. How does one know he or she is called to celibacy and their delaying or passing on marriage is approved by God? In particular, given the differences in male and female sexuality and sexual development, how does a young man know that he is called to celibacy?

The concept of being “called to celibacy” occurs in the Bible in two ways: purposeful vows to be single, and pastoral advice to those who are single. Where in the New Testament do we see a “gift of celibacy” being considered by young singles in the way spiritual gifts are discussed in today’s church?

I have total respect for all those who believe God has called them to a life of celibacy, but I have to be honest. I know many who concluded God called them to singleness who later married. Our Roman Catholic friends could tell us a lot of stories about this.

3. It is an overemphasis of marriage when marriage is automatically called a “priority” for the unmarried Christian. Here is where I hope my readers will think carefully along with me.

…Does this mean that every Christian young person needs to make “finding a spouse” their major business? I say this as a youth professional and a youth minister who is watching many Christians- especially females- literally make finding a spouse the priority of their lives. Instead of boy crazy teenager girls, we have spouse-obsessed girls, who are seeing marriage as the most important, all consuming principle for living their lives. It is the focus of their prayers, the basis of their reading, the guiding principle of their involvements and a priority in all decisions. This concerns me.

… Should I be advising my daughter to put finding a husband as first on her list of priorities? Should my kids be, literally, pursuing mates in their relationships? (I use that word because I see this increasingly happening, and it’s not particularly spiritual.) Is there no value to a social activity with the opposite gender except what may lead to marriage?

In fact, shouldn’t the priority of general Christian character and growth be clearly ranked above any specific matter like marriage or missions, especially for a young person? Am I wrong to tell young people to pursue general Christian growth as the foundation of understanding God’s will in other areas? And will that general Christian growth always indicate that, yes, marriage should be the assumed priority for their life, even though Jesus wasn’t married and the New Testament shows a remarkable openness to single people in ministry?

4. We overemphasize marriage when those who are not married are out of the “center” of the Christian community, thus violating clear implications of the ministry of Jesus. I am extremely concerned that the emphasis on marriage in contemporary evangelicalism has created an imbalance within the body of Christ. I am already sensitive to this because of my own life experience.

I grew up in a fundamentalistic Baptist Church where the divorced were ostracized, baited, humiliated and blamed at every opportunity. (No, I am not exaggerating. Drinkers and divorced people were what was wrong with the world. Oh….and anyone who married a Catholic was bad, too.) This is why my dad only heard me preach, in person, five times in his life. What is outrageous about this is that 1) it was done by elevating never divorced families to the center of the church community, and 2) ignoring Jesus’ ministry to the marginalized and broken.

Jesus would have included- even preferred in some instances- the divorced, the single and the rejected in his community of followers. It is inconceivable to me that a church pastored by Jesus would put the emphasis on marriage that I saw in my childhood- or in many circles today. Today’s mega-churches specialize in that traditional family with two kids and a dog. Yes, many of them also successfully minister to singles and other groups, but am I the only one who hears such an incessant drumbeat of teaching on marriage, threats to marriage, crisis in marriage, marriage success principles and so forth that it can sometimes appear the church is preaching the “Good News of Marriage and Family” a bit louder than the Good News of Jesus?

I know single people can be whiners. Every pastor has those single members who don’t want to be single and annoyingly keep complaining that God is unfair. But are singles wrong when they say the church looks so much like a club for families that they don’t feel like they are normal, whole and blessed? Are so many family-oriented events and ministries done with serious thought to how Jesus did ministry? Did Jesus emphasize marriage as we do in most churches?

(Please click the “read more” link to read the rest of this entry)

Continue reading “Salvation By Marriage Alone – The Over Emphasis Upon Marriage by Conservative Christians Evangelicals Southern Baptists”

Video: Dating Advice for Single Christian Guys (satire)

Video: Dating Advice for Single Christian Guys (satire)

At least I’m assuming this is satire. I hope to goodness it’s satire.

(Link to video): 10 Dating Tips For The Christian Man

Post by Sarah Bessey Re: Churches Ignore Never Married Older and/or Childless Christian Women, Discriminate Against Them

Post by Sarah Bessey Re: Churches Ignore Never Married Older and/or Childless Christian Women, Discriminate Against Them In which they are overlooked in a sea of hipsters”

(Link): In which they are overlooked in a sea of hipsters by Sarah Bessey


    A few months ago, I requested stories or anecdotes about how it feels to be a woman in the church. I was more than a little overwhelmed by the responses, both the sheer number and the content, but I did my best to respond to each one. Women filled my inbox with stories – beautiful and horrible, hurtful and empowering – about their experiences within the institutions of Christianity.

    After all my research, I thought I knew what to expect. And sure enough, there were the stories about women feeling marginalized because they are not married or do not/ cannot have children; stories about women who had men turn their backs when they stood up to preach their first sermon; stories about women who stayed in abusive marriages because of their church teachings; a lot of affirming women who found their voice and healing within church.

    But one theme emerged that I hadn’t looked for, over and over: Women, in the middle of their lives, who felt invisible and ignored by the church, the same way they feel invisible or ignored in our culture.

    These are women of my mother’s generation perhaps, maybe ten or even twenty years on either side. And I heard their hurt and sorrow and stoicism.

    ..One woman told me about how she had led worship at her church for years. But when a new young pastor was hired, he wanted a cooler band to get more young people, and the first thing to go were the older women. “No one wanted to see old women on stage,” she wrote candidly without bitterness, and so she was replaced with young women in their late teens and early twenties. She misses leading worship.

    …Women told me about how hard it is to be middle-aged or to be considered unbeautiful in a church culture which values youth and energy and talent. In a sea of hipsters and motivated young people with self-promotion apparently engrained into their DNA, they feel invisible and over-looked, slow and ignored.

    ..I asked older women in my life and found the same was true. Once a woman reaches a certain age or if a woman is not considered beautiful or outgoing or charming, she often disappears in the eyes of her community. She still has a rich and meaningful life, don’t get me wrong, but they all said, sadly, that yes, they are well-educated or experienced or wise, and yet, they are never asked, they are never invited, they are rarely noticed.

    …It’s an idealist view, a dreamer’s dream, but if there is one place where women of a certain age or women who do not fit the cultural expectations of “beauty” should feel valued and affirmed, celebrated and acknowledged, honoured and even just seen, oh, my goodness, let it be within the Body of Christ!

((Click Here to Read the rest of her post))

Conservative Christian Sexist Immature Imbecilic Pressure on Women to Look Pretty and Skinny and to Put Out Sexually

Conservative Christian Sexist Immature Imbecilic Pressure on Women to Look Pretty and Skinny and to Put Out Sexually

Two posts from Christianty Today:

(Link 1): I’m Sick of Hearing About Your Smoking Hot Wife

(Link 2): Stay Sexy or Else? Well, Please Forgive These Mommy Hips

I’ve written about this situation in several older posts.

Christians, particularly certain types of Christian men – either the old fogies (as in they are in their 60s or older) who are still stuck in a 1950s American sexist mentality; or the younger (as they are in their 30s, 40s, and 50s), skinny- jeans wearing, YRR, Neo Calvinist type preachers and their devotees – keep telling Christian women that their looks really, really matter.

Some of these pastors or Christian television hosts – who are frat boys in grown men’s bodies – will sometimes toss out qualifiers or disclaimers to young girls and women in their sermons or blogs, such as, “But remember your value lies in your identity in Christ,” or some such spiritual-sounding platitude, but, their on-going, slavish obsession with telling women to look hot and sexy, be skinny, and please their husbands in the bedroom (even when they are feeling sick), are truer to how they really think and feel about the female gender.

Sometimes, female gender complementarians buy into this sexist, unbiblical nonsense too, and sell it to other Christian women (see this post: “Gender Complementarian Product for Females: Don’t Base Your Value on Your Looks, but Wait, Yes, You Should”).

I’ve yet to hear a male pastor tell his male audience that they must perform sexually no matter what, whenever their wife wants sex, even if the husband is feeling ill. Yet Christian women are subjected to this nauseating swill and pap on a pretty regular basis, and the preaching of this message seems to have increased in frequency in the last few years.

Other than one male Christian blogger who says that males need to stay in shape as well as ladies, I’ve not seen any Christian males, and certainly not any big name pastors (or even any small potato pastors) instruct the men folk to stay trim, muscular, and get hair plugs for the women in their lives.

Looks matter to women, even to Christian ones. They really do, even to the women who try to sound spiritual on the internet by saying, “Oh gosh, I don’t care what a man looks like, as long as he loves Jesus.” These women are in denial. No woman alive is into flabby, obese guys, and most prefer hair. And teeth. But you won’t hear your preacher say any of this from the pulpit or in blogs or books.

Here is a copy of “Stay Sexy or Else? Well, Please Forgive These Mommy Hips” by Janelle Aijian

    Some Christian marriage conferences and self-help books tell us it’s up to the wife to stay looking great and try new things in the bedroom, to (Link): keep her husband satisfied and her marriage strong.

    Mary DeMuth (Link): recently critiqued the popular “smoking hot wife” line, pointing out that for the many Christian wives recovering from experiences of sexual abuse, this kind of imperative makes the difficult path towards healthy intimacy even harder. For a woman trying to find a way to lower defenses, shake off memories, and find true, godly communion with a spouse, being told to act the part of the sexy wife is 11 steps in the wrong direction.

    But the real problem with all this evangelical sex talk is even bigger than that. Any woman trying to live intimately with her husband gets damaged by these sorts of claims, not just those who are recovering from abuse. It’s antithetical to the Christian view of marriage altogether.

    As we remind Christian couples to “stay in shape and try new things,” we can play into a broader cultural premise on sex—that it’s all right to leave a spouse once the spark of sexual excitement and attraction has dissipated, that couples who don’t find sex exciting anymore don’t, won’t, or even shouldn’t, stay together. An adventurous sex life becomes the unspoken requirement for lifelong monogamy.

    Once that idea gets in a woman’s head, it’s hard to shake it. In the back of her mind, she knows the choice to have children also means changing her body forever. Her shape will become different. The sex will be different. Amid the vulnerability of pregnancy and childbirth, women face the fear of becoming less attractive to their husbands, who are meant to find them sexy for years and years to come if they want their marriage to last.
    Continue reading “Conservative Christian Sexist Immature Imbecilic Pressure on Women to Look Pretty and Skinny and to Put Out Sexually”

‘Quitting Church’ Book by Julia Duin – electronic version now available

‘Quitting Church’ Book by Julia Duin – electronic version now available

Thank you to regular blog reader John M. for alerting me to the fact that a new version of “Quitting Church” by Julia Duin is now available, on Barnes and Noble and Amazon.

I’m also amazed I have any regular readers at all. There’s one lady who faves a lot of my posts on this blog, another lady who comments once in a while, and a guy who faves my stuff every so often. Thank you all.

As a reminder, my blog may turn you all off. I’m stuck somewhere between being a Christian at a very minimal basis and being an agnostic. I also find myself cussing more lately when I get angry, which shows up in my posts on occasion. That kind of stuff may be a turn off for people who are still die hard, conservative, devout Christians. Anyway.

About Duin’s new Quitting Church book: at this point, it looks like there is no hard copy version available, only electronic.

At least, I’m assuming this is a second edition/ updated version, and not just an electronic version of the first edition? I’m not clear on that, and the sites selling copies don’t really spell it out.

I think the church situation has gone even more downhill since Duin released the original version of the book.

Seriously. Just spend time on blogs by ex Christians, Christians who quit church due to spiritual abuse or their kids were molested by pastors and Sunday School teachers. Then, you have Christians mature in the faith who are sick of the “seeker friendly” model, whose preachers remain stuck on “Christianity 101.”

Video about Family Focused Churches and how not to alienate singles or the childless

Video about Family Focused Churches and how not to alienate singles or the childless

Video on You Tube, discussion about how singles are ignored by Family- and- children- obsessed churches around the 34:12, 35:14 mark (link below, video embedded in post farther down this page):

(Link): Pat Robertson vs. Orphans, Facebook Annoyances, Singles in Family Churches – Faith Today LIVE

If you watch this video you will have to sit through a long conversation about Facebook annoyances, Pat Roberton’s lousy attitudes about orphans before they begin discussing singles in the church.

Unfortunately, one of the guys in the video favorably quotes Mark Driscoll (who is sexist and perverted-see my previous posts mentioning Driscoll), but other than that, it’s an okay video – not stellar, but okay.

To the dude in the video who says singles assume that nobody will like them, especially not married couples, so they isolate and stay away from every one – wrong. Singles, when they do try to reach out in friendship to married Christian couples, often get rebuffed by the married!

Married Christian women also rebuff single Christian ladies, because they fear we single women want to sleep with their husbands. The husbands, being conceited asses, as most men usually are, assume single Christian women want to hump them, even if we don’t.

The moment a married chick with kids finds out I have never been married/had kids, often they get this look of revulsion or disgust on their face, or their face takes on a a look of utter confusion.

The majority of married women have NO CLUE how to relate to a never-married, childfree Christian woman who is over 30 years old.

Most Christian women (and some Christian men) think you are weird, abnormal, a pedophile, or messed up if you’ve never married or had a kid.

And it’s not just me, if you read testimonies by other single Christian women in blogs and books,they recount the same problem: married people who treat them like lepers or wackos the moment they find out the woman is not married and has no kids.

Such Christians will walk off the moment they find out you are single/no kids, after you have introduced yourself to them at church. I can’t compensate for that, video dude. I cannot force church people to befriend me when they think I am weird and choose to walk off and leave me after we exchange pleasantries.

BTW, I do not like children. So I have zippo interest in hanging out with other people’s kids.

Here’s the video. Video on You Tube, discussion about how singles are ignored by Family- and- children- obsessed churches around the 34:12, 35:14 mark:


Advocate of Family Values Doesn’t Uphold Family Values | Stop Asking Pat Robertson for Advice America!

Advocate of Family Values Doesn’t Uphold Family Values (Re Pat Robertson)

Why do people write Robertson for advice, espeically women?

Robertson is currently an 82 or 83 year old “gender complementarian” who has very definite views about the roles men and women are to play, ones which are rooted in a faulty understanding of certain biblical passages and stuck in 1950s American culture. If you are a woman and write to him with a question, he will usually take the husband’s side.

Women of America: stop writing Robertson questions! Stop asking him questions via the “Bring It On” online section of his “700 Club” site. Stop it. He doesn’t have anything valuable or sensitive to say about most life situations.

Pat Robertson promotes himself as being all about “family values.” But he doesn’t uphold family values in his private life, and he doesn’t support them when answering viewer questions to his television show.

I am using Robertson as an example, because there are already so many videos online of him and his sexist, anti-family values to point to, but he is by no means the only Christian champion of “family values” I’ve seen who is a hypocrite on the issues of marriage, divorce, spousal abuse, etc.

At one time, Robertson was a Southern Baptist preacher. That is also alarming, because SBC (Southern Baptist Churches/ Convention) promotes itself as being all about family values and traditional values.

Hell, I live out family values more often and more consistently than most SBC guys or Robertson, and I’ve never married, I’m a woman, never had a kid, never had sex outside of marriage, and I’m borderline agnostic these days.

I’m not having sex outside marriage, I’m not telling married men it’s okay for them to cheat on their wife, I’m not advocating that people divorce their sick spouse, etc.

Pat Robertson had pre-marital sex. His first son was born out of wedlock. However, Robertson periodically has “anti porn,” and “anti- sexually explicit material brought in to or taught to college kids” spokespersons on his 700 Club show.

Here is a guy lecturing the rest of us to keep our skirts down and legs crossed, but he’s engaged in sexual immorality himself.

Here are some links about Robertson’s pre-marital fornication and resultant illegitimate son:

(Link): Pat Robertson Lashes Accusers

    by By Rogers Worthington, Chicago Tribune.
    Published 1987
    On Friday, Robertson`s wife and son appeared on the Christian Broadcasting Network and said they have a loving home untouched by concern over Tim Robertson being conceived out of wedlock, United Press International reported.

    Dede Robertson said the public revelation surrounding her son’s conception stung at first, but added, “The freedom that I’m feeling and the prayers that I’m feeling have lifted me up.”

On to the next Robertson anti-family, anti- traditional marriage, anti- traditional values gaffe.

Contrary to what most Christians assume, Christ and the Bible does NOT teach that divorce is acceptable only in cases of
1. atheist spouse
2. adultery

(Don’t believe me about what the Bible says about divorce that it’s permissible in situations other than atheist spouse/adultery? (Link): Read this)

However, that does not mean that the Bible sanctions, or that it’s ethically okay, for a husband to divorce a spouse because the spouse is sick, yet that is precisely what Robertson advocated.

(Link to You Tube video): Televangelist Pat Robertson Condones Divorcing a Spouse With Alzheimers Disease

(Link): Divorce Wife With Alzheimer’s – Pat Robertson (hosted by Young Turks on You Tube)

Robertson claims to be “pro marriage,” but here he is taking a low view of marriage by telling husbands it’s okay to dump a sick spouse and divorce her. How is advocating the dissolution of a family over such an invalid reason “pro-marriage,” or “pro-family values”? It’s not. Yet Robertson has the nerve to keep passing himself off as a “family values” supporter.

(Link): Robertson: Divorce Your Wife With Alzheimers

The Bible is egalitarian in gender roles, not gender complementarian (as taught by CBMW), nor does the Bible teach that women cannot be preachers, leaders, or that they are to submit to a husband as though the husband were an authority figure. ((Link):Source)

The Bible does not condone or excuse husbands beating up their wives, but Pat Robertson gets into heresy on all this, and seems just fine with men beating their wives, and tries to make a joke out of it (see video clip below, linked).

Robertson also disturbingly compares a grown wife to little girls who rebels in one video segment; adult wives are not little girls.

Also bear in mind we don’t have the wife’s perspective of the marriage in all this, we only have the view of the disgruntled husband who wrote to Robertson for advice:

(Link – video on You Tube): Pat Robertson Tells Man to Beat his Wife, Move to Saudi Arabia

More un-biblical, anti family values comments and views from Robertson:

(Link): Ugly Wives Ruining Marriages says Pat Robertson

The Bible says that Christians are supposed to care for widows and orphans, but Robertson is anti-family values on this issue as well-

(Link): Pat Robertson’s Advice: Don’t Adopt Children

(Link): Pat Robertson: Don’t Adopt Sexually Molested Children, Could Grow Up “Weird”

See my previous posts:

(Link): Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time) | (Robertson says Wives are to Blame if Husbands Commit Adultery)

My follow up post to that one:

(Link): Pat Robertson to married woman: All men are cheaters and sex crazed horn dogs, but that’s okay because they’re men

Here are some more links about Pat Roberton’s fornication:

(Link): Robertson’s Son Conceived Out of Wedlock

(Link): Wild Oats Robertson Rewrites His Resume (TIME, 1987)

    Only one week after Televangelist Pat Robertson formally declared his presidential candidacy, he received a chilling political baptism.

    Press accounts disclosed that Robertson’s first child had been conceived out of wedlock and that the former minister had misstated his wedding date to conceal the fact.

    Robertson, who has condemned sex before marriage, said he had merely tried to “protect his family” in previously suggesting that he had been married in March 1954 rather than on Aug. 27.

    Robertson’s first son was born ten weeks after the wedding. Robertson said that he and his wife Dede considered March 22, 1954 — the…

Robertson Assails Press Admits Backdated Wedding

Keeping Tabs on Church Quitters

Keeping Tabs on Church Quitters

Some people on some sites find the desire by some pastors, or Christians in church staff positions, to do follow-ups with those who have quit their churches un-nerving.

The specific types of churches these folks are concerned about are spiritually abusive and authoritarian.

Here are some examples of people from churches that are considered to be authoritarian, who apparently want to stalk former members:

(Link): 1. Pastors, Don’t Let your People Resign into Thin Air, by Bobby Jamieson

(Link): 2. Gospel-Minded Churches Cooperating in Pastoring

I do think quotes in #1 are troubling – the guy who wrote it, Bobby Jamieson, has distorted certain Bible verses to uphold his view that churches can “force” a member to stay, which he denies is the view he is pushing, but which his other comments negate.

Whether or not a Christian attends a local body of believers in a brick building or not, he or she is still a “member of the body of Christ.”

One becomes a member of the body by professing and accepting Jesus as Savior, not by attending a weekly church service. But the guy who wrote #1 is saying the opposite.

One of the kookiest, creepiest comments this guy makes is this:

    What I am saying is that the church has the responsibility to oversee the lives of its members as long as they are under its watch—which includes their trip out the back door.

Churches and preachers do not have a right or a duty to “oversee the lives” of their members. He is grossly overstepping his bounds as a pastor (or staffer, whatever his church role is), or is attributing qualities to a church that the Bible never gives them, if he thinks in these terms.

It is the Holy Spirit’s duty to lead and guide each believer, not a man’s, not a church’s.

Christ said believers are not to “lord authority” over one another or live in a hierarchy where they exercise control over each other, but that is precisely what this guy, Bobby Jamieson, is advocating churches or preachers do.

And where this guy quotes Hebrews 10:24–25 (“And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.”), I’m sorry, but no.

Notice the verse is not written as a command, as in “Thus saith the Lord, you shall meet weekly with other believers,” but rather it is merely saying it is beneficial for believers to meet. They would be wise to lean on other believers, not that they absolutely have to do so.

I’ve never understood that verse (Heb. 10:24,25) to be an imperative that Christians must attend a weekly meeting of body of believers, and if they do not, they are in sin. The author (Jamieson) is trying to make a command out of something that is not a command.

Continue reading “Keeping Tabs on Church Quitters”

Book Review at CP: Sex, Dating, and Relationships: The Dating Friendships Alternative

Sex, Dating, and Relationships: The Dating Friendships Alternative (review by CP about a book by by Gerald Hiestand and Jay Thomas)

(Link): Book Review at CP about Dating, Sex

They’re hyping another book filled with Christian advice about sex and dating.

I stopped paying credence to dating advice books, sites, columns, and magazine articles eons ago, not that I was ever a fan to start with. Such material is a huge waste of time.

If you read the article about the book, the authors hold the view that most Christians are horny horn dogs who have fornicated all over the place. I didn’t see any acknowledgement that there are Christians remain virgins past the age of 30.

On the plus side, the review/ad of this book on CP says that the authors of the new book about sex and dating are not encouraging “courtship” or “kissing dating goodbye” strategies, which is a good thing, because such teachings are one reason Christian singles remain single.

See, most Christian dating advice (such as “kiss dating goodbye”) tells men to stay away from women because Christian single women are big whores who will have sex with them on a first date, and no man can resist sexual temptation. So a lot of Christian single men (and women) accept this screwball teaching and avoid each other.

Now, when single men and single women avoid each other so as to avoid fornication, they can’t chat, get to know one another, fall in love, and ergo, they do not marry. (please click the “read more” link below to read the rest of this post)

Continue reading “Book Review at CP: Sex, Dating, and Relationships: The Dating Friendships Alternative”

Hyper Sola Scriptura

Hyper Sola Scriptura

I have briefly discussed this topic on older posts (such as a post about NDEs). If one is going to be a Christian, then yes, one needs to embrace sola scriptura.

I am down with sola scriptura. When some people drift from sola scriptura, they come up with some bizarre, false teachings.

However, some Christians, particularly Neo Calvinists, take sola scriptura to an extreme, to discount any sort of supernatural or spiritual experience or knowledge that a Christian did not get directly from the Bible – which is, ironically, an unbiblical view point on their part (they claim to be so very biblical), because, for example, Christ promised that His followers would do greater things than He, such as raise the dead and so forth.

I don’t always agree with blogger Rachel Held Evans on every topic, but this is one view I do share with her; here’s a post to her site about this topic:

(Link): Is God’s presence limited to Scripture?

The Bible does promise the Holy Spirit to every believer, and the Holy Spirit is said to speak to believers in a “still, small voice.” The Bible itself witnesses that God will and can speak to believers in other ways, and not just in the Bible alone.

I don’t see any support, and not even in 2 Timothy 3:16, that indicates that God will not use any other means other than the Bible to communicate to believers.

Obviously, if someone claims to be a Christian and that person claims God spoke to them, then their so-called revelation needs to be compared and measured against the Bible, and if it runs contrary to the Bible, it must not be from God. But to completely discount any and all methods outside the written word is a mistake.

There is even a portion of the New Testament, in Romans, that says God reveals Himself via nature.

When I was younger, and on one occasion, under the age of ten, and in a time of minor crisis after I prayed for help, God spoke to me directly (and I didn’t have a Bible near-by to turn to, even had I wanted). I’m not going to go into detail about the specific incident, but God did speak to me, inwardly (not in an audible voice), and what God spoke to me did not run counter to any teaching in the Bible. The point being I know for a fact God does speak to people, and not only in or from the published book we call The Bible, because He spoke to me once.

I just get so tired of ultra conservative Christians, and the Neo Calvinists, who laugh at, mock, and ridicule any one and every one who says they heard from God in some way. Their arrogance in this area is appalling.

Anyway, I encourage you to read the blog post at RH Evans’ site about the topic.

(Link): Is God’s presence limited to Scripture?

Pat Robertson to married woman: All men are cheaters and sex crazed horn dogs, but that’s okay because they’re men

Pat Robertson to married woman: All men are cheaters, but that’s okay because they’re men

(Link): Yeah, remember my previous post:
Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)

Other sites carrying the same video:

(Link): Pat Robertson On Cheating Husband: ‘He’s A Man!’ (Video on You Tube)

(Link): Robertson: Husband Cheated But “Well, He’s A Man” (Video on You Tube)

Here’s the video (at least I think it’s the same thing I saw the other day):

How churches can play role in dating, marriage

How churches can play role in dating, marriage

Southern Baptists and other Christian groups can learn something from the page I’m linking to below.

Married Christians complain that Christian singles are remaining single, but they do nothing to help us singles get hitched.

We singles are not deliberately choosing to remain single – we are single because we cannot meet eligible bachelors. It’s left totally up to us to find a partner, and let me tell you, after you leave college, meeting single people in your age range becomes incredibly difficult.

Some Christian singles don’t like dating sites, have had no success with them, or can’t afford using them. So the church needs to step up to the plate and give Christian singles opportunities to meet and mingle, and Sunday School don’t cut it.

By the way, it’s incredibly stupid and counter-productive to segregate Sunday school by gender, as many Baptist churches do. To get a man and a woman married, they have to meet together in the SAME ROOM. Placing the woman in one room and the man in another will keep both single.

There are some singles who object to churches being used as meeting places for singles, but where the hell else should you expect to meet a potential mate, a bar? A night club? And again, dating sites such as “match.com” and “eHarmony” doesn’t work for some of us.

If the church wants to see more singles marry other Christians, the married ones need to start playing match-maker, introduce their single lady friends to the single guys, churches need to put on more social events for singles, etc.

This comes from a page by United Methodists.

(Link): How churches can play role in dating, marriage


    Mr. Oates added that during their courtship and even now, the church has given the couple plenty of opportunities for shared activities and a shared ministry. It was “a no-brainer,” he said, that the couple would volunteer to help at the church’s vacation Bible school or serve as lay readers at worship.
    As many couples have discovered, a church potluck or Christmas pageant can make for a great date night.

    Opportunities to meet

    The United Methodist Church also offers singles a variety of ministries where they might discover their future sweethearts.

    Among those who responded to the UMNS Facebook question were people who met their spouses at United Methodist youth gatherings, campus ministries, seminaries and even annual conference sessions.

    …Emily Walter met her future husband, Jeremy, 13 years ago on the front steps of First UMC in Conway, Ark.
    They were introduced by a mutual friend who had invited Jeremy to church. Emily knew that friend through the Ozark Mission Project, a United Methodist ministry in Arkansas that connects church youth groups with short-term mission projects.