Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)

Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)

Pat Robertson, evangelical host of the television show “The 700 Club,” was answering a viewer question about adultery on today’s (May 15, 2013) program, in the segment of the show called “Bring It On.”

The woman said her husband had an affair, and she was trying to forgive him but couldn’t move past it.

Robertson’s answer to this viewer is similar to previous ones he’s given, where he rationalizes and excuses the male’s sinful actions, and he continues to imply that men just can’t help it, gosh dang it, because males are wired to see a hot woman and get worked up over it, and they cannot resist.

Contra to Pat Robertson the Bible says something about the Holy Spirit giving each believer a measure of self-control, and in other New Testament passages, Paul talks about sexual behavior as though it is something that can be controlled by each believer; the Bible does not speak of sex as something that is beyond a person’s control or ability to avoid.

In his response to the married lady’s letter today, Robertson said (I am typing this from memory – though the first comment is a word- for- word quote of his; the rest are accurate paraphrases of his comments):

    “Well he’s a man, okay.”
    “Males have a tendency to wander a little bit and you have to make home as appealing as you can so he won’t want to cheat.”
    “The magazines are filled with salacious pictures of women”
    “Everywhere there are salacious temptatations to tempt a man.”

Robertson has taken a similar position in the past, when women write in to ask him why their husband is an alcoholic; a cheater; or what have you.

Robertson’s response is to blame the woman. In some situations, and despite not having a photo of the wife, and despite the letter writer not mentioning the appearance of the wife, Robertson assumes the wife is ugly and fat, and tells her men like pretty ladies, so the wife needs to lose weight and dress nice, that if only the wife would be skinny, pretty and non argumentative, she would not give her a husband a reason to be unfaithful, get drunk, or whatever.

I find it jaw dropping, very sexist, and incredible that Robertson keeps being so sexist.

A man is responsible for his own actions. It doesn’t matter if his wife is 800 pounds and toothless; that still would not give him a right to seek out a 25 year old 120 pound fashion model to start up a fling.

If you think about it, some of Robertson’s views are sexist against men.

I’d like to think at least some men on the planet are not so prone to, or easy to, caving in to sexual temptation, mistreating their wives or committing adultery, but he suggests men are helpless against their lusts or hormones, and a woman should just accept this as a fact of life.

By the way, this gets back to one theme I have been hammering away at on this blog for over a year:

One reason that there is so much sexual sin among Christians is that there is NO EXPECTATION THAT CHRISTIANS CAN OR WILL CONTROL SEXUAL BEHAVIOR.

It is continually ASSUMED and put forth by pastors, Christian authors on dating books, Christian blogs about dating, and by average lay persons, that sex is something that cannot be resisted or lived without.

Robertson’s quotes to his viewers that I have highlighted in this post is an example of what I mean. He is not the only one, however. I see other Christians, “every day Joe’s” around the web, who make similar comments: they feel they cannot live “X” number of days or months without sex.

Pastor Mark Driscoll of “Mars Hill” church frequently makes the same assumption in his speeches, blogs, or books about sex, dating, marriage: because he cannot picture himself living without sex for more than 3, 4 days in a row, he cannot conceive of any Christian being able to go long without sex.

And of course Driscoll is not the only one. If you look around the web long enough, on sites containing blogs by Christian pastors, or listen to their sermons on You Tube, or watch Christian talking heads on “TBN,” these assumptions come up over and over and over again.

As long as Christians keep buying into the secular premise that sex is a biological necessity that cannot be resisted, and preachers do not have an attitude of EXPECTATION that Christians can and will refrain from sex, we will keep seeing Christians, both married and single, committing sexual sin.

Update: Here’s the video (at least I think it’s the same thing I saw the other day):

Same video segment hosted here:

(Link): Robertson: Husband Cheated But “Well, He’s A Man” (Video on You Tube)

Continue reading “Pat Robertson Expects Men to Commit Sexual Sin (and it’s not the first time)”

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Glad I’m Not Married – ‘Help! My Husband Caught Me Cheating and Now Wants an Open Marriage.’

Glad I’m Not Married – ‘Help! My Husband Caught Me Cheating and Now Wants an Open Marriage.’

This is also another example of married couples who are engaging in sexual sin. That’s right, the old trope about all un-marrieds being sleazy, randy, horn dogs who hump everything in sight isn’t true. Some married couples are into that. Here’s another example.

From Dear Prudence:

    In a live chat, Prudie counsels a woman whose husband caught her cheating and now wants an open marriage.

    Q. Husband Wants an Open Marriage: A few months ago, my husband uncovered an affair I was having with an old flame. He moved out and initiated divorce proceedings, but in the time since, I was able to convince him that I am truly repentant and to give our marriage another chance for the sake of our children.

    The problem I have now is that he says that if we are to stay married, he wants it to be an open marriage.

    I’ve tried to tell him that I’ve gotten that out of my system and I don’t want to be with anybody other than him, but he says there just isn’t any way he can ever trust me again, he doesn’t feel an obligation to be faithful to me anymore, and at least this way we’re being honest about it.

    Prudie, it makes me ill to think about him being with another woman. I just want things to go back to how they used to be. How can I convince him that we need to be completely committed to each other in order for this to work?

No Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity and Sexual Purity – Christians Attack and Criticize Virginity Sexual Purity Celibacy / Virginity Sexual Purity Not An Idol

No, Christians and Churches Do Not Idolize Virginity or Sexual Purity or Modesty

When doing a search for the phrase “does Christianity idolize motherhood,” several post headings by more liberal Christians, or secular critics, or emergents, popped up with the heading, “Do Christians Idolize Virginity.”

I looked over several of these pages.

The consensus by most of these bloggers and other writers is that yes, Christianity idolizes virginity, especially for women.

No, no, I’m afraid Christian culture does not idolize virginity, not for males or females. Far from it.

Conservative Christians pay a lot of lip service to celibacy and sexual purity, but most, including famous preachers, don’t live it out (look how many get caught having affairs and so forth; (Link): (see examples, or see this link for further examples) and do nothing to assist or encourage any Christian virgin past the age of 30.

I made this post so that anyone doing a search for “Do Christians idolize virginity” would find this, so I can direct you to my previous post on this blog -please see the following post:

(Link): The Contemporary Church Undervalues Celibacy / Virginity – Christians do not truly support celibacy or virginity let alone idolize either one – especially not for anyone over the age of 30

I’m a Christian virgin at age 40+ (I had hoped to be married by my mid 30s; staying single this long was not a choice) and Christian literature and many churches actually treats me, and those like me, as a freak, as a failure, and we older virgins don’t feel welcome in churches, because most of them worship marriage and family. Just visit my blog post linked above to read more.

The flip side of all this, is that some churches are paranoid about sexual sin and end up teaching younger -and even older- Christians to fear the opposite sex, to avoid any possibility of fornication, which means, Christians don’t date each other and eventually marry. I have written posts about that, too – see the categories off to the right of the blog page, “how Christians are keeping Christian singles single,” and “Christian teachings about dating.”

But, contrary to Rachel Held Evans, other emergents, liberals, and anyone antagonistic towards Christianity, there is really no idolization of sexual purity and virginity going on in Christian circles, not in most mainline, normal Christian denominations: the opposite is true; most preachers and denominations expect you will eventually fornicate, and they also preach an “easy forgivism” of sexual sin.

Remember, I said ‘normal’ and ‘mainline.’ I realize there are a few small, aberrant groups that claim Christianity who do go crazy with legalism over virginity and sexual purity. I’m not talking about those kook, hyper legalistic, fringe groups, but rather, the more common, run of the mill, conservative evangelical, Southern Baptist, and fundamentalist groups and churches.

See my previous post for more on this topic:

(Link): The Contemporary Church Undervalues Celibacy / Virginity
__________________________________________

Related posts, this blog:

(Link):  Some Researchers Argue that Shame Should Be Used to Treat Sexual Compulsions

(Link): Stop Telling Adult Singles and Adult Virgins That Their Virginity and Singleness is “For God’s Glory” – just stop it already

(Link): Are Most Churches Too Judgemental About Sexual Sin? (of the hetero variety)

(Link): A Day In The Life Of An Abstinence Ed Teacher by S. Gomez

(Link):  Gonorrhea Super Strain Becoming ‘Untreatable’ (in the UK; may ben heading to the USA) – 2015 story

(Link):  CDC Report: Virgin Teens Much Healthier Than Their Sexually Active Peers (2016 Report)

(Link):  Our Bodies Were Not Made for Sex by T. Swann

(Link): The Christian and Non Christian Phenomenon of Virgin Shaming and Celibate Shaming

(Link):  Churches No Longer Teaching that Pre-Marital Sex is a Sin

(Link):  An Example of Mocking Adult Virginity Via Twitter (Virginity Used As Insult)

(Link): Anti Virginity Editorial by Christian Blogger Tim Challies – Do Hurt / Shame Feelings or Sexual Abuse Mean Christians Should Cease Supporting Virginity or Teaching About Sexual Purity

(Link): Christians Who Attack Virginity Celibacy and Sexual Purity – and specifically Russell D. Moore and James M. Kushiner

(Link): Christians Speaking Out of Both Sides of Their Mouths About Sexual Sin – Choices and Actions and How You Teach This Stuff Has Consequences

(Link): Christian Gender Complementarian Group (CBMW) Anti Virginity and Anti Sexual Purity Stance (At Least Watered Down) – and their Anti Homosexual Marriage Position

(Link): Christian TV Show Host Pat Robertson Disrespects Virginity – Says Pre-Marital Sex Is “Not A Bad Thing”

(Link): Joshua Rogers of Boundless / Focus on the Family Attacks Biblical Teaching of Virginity Until Marriage

(Link): Christian Double Standards on Celibacy – Hetero Singles Must Abstain from Sex but Not Homosexual Singles

(Emergents, Sexual Abuse Victims, some Feminists, and Liberals attacking sexual purity teachings and virgin until marriage teachings mentioned in the following post):

(Link): Emergent Christian Guy Says Christians Need to “Celebrate Pre Marital Sex” (Fornication)

(Link): Why So Much Fornication (sex outside of marriage) – Because Christians Have No Expectation of Sexual Purity

(Link): Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – Easy Forgivism

(Link): Church Postcards That Would Keep Me Away From Church (Re Marriage and Family Vs Singles and Childless / Childfree)

(Link): Douglas Wilson and Christian Response FAIL to Sexual Sin – No Body Can Resist Sex – supposedly – Re: Celibacy
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When Adult Virginity and Adult Celibacy Are Viewed As Inconvenient or As Impediments

When Adult Virginity and Adult Celibacy Are Viewed As Inconvenient or As Impediments

I’ve been meaning on writing about this topic for some time, but it’s not one I want to spend a lot of time on.

A recent visitor comment at the blog reminded me of it. Here’s the comment, from a previous thread:

Most churches probably are bored with the “average Jane” stories [testimonies]. But I think the real reason we [mature Christian celibates] are silenced is because we would make too many people look . . . bad.

We are an embarrassment to them and would make most church parents uncomfortable if we spoke about virginity or saving sex until marriage.

How many of them waited? Several fathers over the years have asked me “John, what am I going to tell my children?” My answer is always “the truth.”

// end quote

Certainly there is a problem in Christian circles among hetero-sexuals and fornication, but I have seen this attitude in comment sections on Christian blogs that it’s cruel, as the Christian faith does, to ask those with same-sex attraction to remain celibate over their lives.

I do not understand this view point at all, since the Bible also tells hetero-sexuals to refrain from sex outside of marriage.

I have arrived at my early 40s and have never had sex because I have never married. And I am hetero with a normal libido. I may never marry.

Why would any Christian want to argue that homosexuals get a special exemption from the “no sex outside of marriage” biblical dictate? (And yes, the Bible teaches this, no matter how much feminists, ex-Christians, or egalitarian, liberal Christian women who hate purity teachings want to admit.)

I have actually seen self professing Christians on blogs say,

“Oh wow, I’m a married man, but I don’t know, if I were homosexual, could I live my whole life celibate? I don’t think so. I’m afraid that’s asking too much of any man. Maybe the church should back off on this.”

// end quote

Oh. I see. Homosexual men and homosexual women get a special pass concerning fornication, but hetero-sexual singles such as myself have to continue to buck it up and deal? Sorry but no. No double standards.

Because lifelong celibacy is viewed as an impossiblity (it is not; living proof right here), or as too hard (no, it’s not always easy, that is true, but it can be done), some people think homosexuals should be allowed to go to it (and some think heteros should be allowed to go to it, too).

Continue reading “When Adult Virginity and Adult Celibacy Are Viewed As Inconvenient or As Impediments”

Students Discuss Dissatisfaction with “Hookup Culture” [Casual Sex, Fornication, Pre Marital Sex]

College Students Discuss Dissatisfaction with “Hookup Culture” [Casual Sex, Fornication, Pre Marital Sex]

I just (Link): did a post the other day by a secular source that published commentary by a Christian (or former Christian) gal who said she was sorely misled by Christian sexual purity teachings.

Isn’t it interesting, though, that the secular “anything goes when it comes to sex” culture also produces young people -or adults- who are dissatisfied with sex? Because it does. See article below.

Read the article here:

Students Speak Out Against the ‘Hookup Culture’

    CBN News has reported on the growth of immoral activities on college campuses such as Yale’s “Sex Week.” It’s part of a longtime trend of casual sex on college campuses known as the “hookup culture.” But students are growing tired of it and taking a stand for sexual purity.

    Princeton University freshman Christian Say admits he likes to swim against the tide. He is one of many students pushing back against pressure to have sex before marriage.

    “We don’t think the assumption should be that students are just going to be hooking up and having sex because there are people who think that is just not what leads to a good human life,” Say told CBN News in a recent interview near the school’s campus.

    College professor and author Donna Freitas writes about that “hookup culture,” naming three characteristics to describe it.

    …”There is an understanding with a lot of people in the hookup culture that there is this sort of emptiness to it,” Say told CBN News.

    ..”To hear so many students, either really unhappy or incredibly ambivalent [about] their sexual experiences in college is depressing to me,” Freitas said.

    Freitas surveyed more than 2,000 college students across the country. Forty-one percent of those students used words like “regretful,” “miserable,” “disgusted,” “ashamed,” “duped” and “abused” to describe their hookup experience. Twenty-three percent of them expressed ambivalence.

    From that study, the author concluded many of the students felt alone and unsure of how to change the culture.

    Freitas said, “In a lot of ways, starting is the hardest part because that requires some courage. The biggest hurdle to that is you have got all these students on campus who will say ‘I am the only one who feels this way, but everyone else is over here, and I am all alone over here.’ But you have so many students who are saying that, so a part of me wants to say ‘Listen, you are just like this other person. You should tell the world you feel that way and you are going to find all these friends.'”

(Link): Click here to read the rest of the CBN report

Cloud’s Critique of Family Integrated Churches

Cloud’s Critique of Family Integrated Churches (which idolize the family)

This may not be the exact page I had in mind, but if you look around his site, you can find one or more pages that are critical of family idolatry.

I think Cloud is a IFB and KJVO. Please be aware that I do not fully agree with IFB, and I certainly do reject KJVO (google “KJVO” if you ain’t never heard of it).

(Link): THE INTEGRATED CHURCH AND VISION FORUM, by D Cloud

Excerpts:

    I am writing about the Integrated Church Movement and Vision Forum in one report, because they are so closely tied together. While the Integrated Church Movement is larger than Vision Forum, Vision Forum is probably the most influential part of it.

    The Integrated Church Movement (ICM), also called the Family Integrated Church, is defined as follows:

    “The family-integrated model jettisons all age-graded ministries. Those who adhere to this model view each family unit (single or married, with or without children) as one ‘block’ that comprises the local church. That is, they view the church as a family of families. They view the church’s purpose as equipping the parents, primarily the fathers, to evangelize and disciple their children” (Terry Delany, “Three Perspectives on Family Ministry,” March 18, 2009).

    It is not an organization but a philosophy, and there are many varieties of Family Integrated churches.

    THE DANGERS

    But there are also some serious dangers represented by the Integrated Church movement.

    3. The Integrated Church neglects the Great Commission.

    If you look through Integrated Church literature and web sites, there is little emphasis on the Great Commission and the preaching the gospel to the ends of the earth. I am not saying there is nothing at all, but there is far more emphasis on the family and other things. Their conferences are not missions conferences or evangelism conferences but family and dominionist conferences. Preaching the gospel to the ends of the earth is not even mentioned in Vision Forum’s mission statement.

    …The family is not an end in itself. The objective of both family and church should be the fulfillment of the Lord’s Great Commission, which He emphasized greatly after He rose from the dead and before He ascended to Heaven.

    The book of Acts models the working out of the Great Commission rather than the Family Integrated Church model. Though we believe in a strong emphasis on godly families, this should not be an end in itself. Paul, a single man who could not model the strong family emphasis, preached the gospel and started churches. Paul took the young Timothy away from his family and discipled him apart from his father and mother and grandmother, and there is no evidence that Timothy ever married.
    Continue reading “Cloud’s Critique of Family Integrated Churches”

Article: Christian T-Shirts For Christian Singles

Article: Christian T-Shirts For Christian Singles

I am not sure what to make of this.

(Link): ‘Gutzy Wear’ Clothing Brand Designed to Help Singles Connect
Excerpts (visit the Christian Post link above if you want to see the whole thing):

    By Jeff Schapiro , Christian Post Reporter
    May 13, 2013|5:06 pm
    A brand of clothing designed to help singles connect with one another face-to-face was recently launched nationwide and is raising funds via Kickstarter in order to roll out some new products.


    Arizona entrepreneur Kari Holt came up with the idea for Gutzy Wear in 2011. As a single mother to three boys, she had tried online dating but often found that the people she met on the Internet didn’t live up to her expectations once she met them in person. Sometimes they looked different than they did in their profile pictures, she told The Christian Post, and other times the chemistry she had hoped for just wasn’t there.

    While driving in her car one day, she says, she came up with the idea to put a logo on a shirt that would suggest to others that the shirt’s wearer is “single, available and approachable.”

    …Although she’s starting small, Holt says she has a number of products planned for the future, including jeans, golf attire and accessories. Among the accessories she has planned is a ring for singles to wear on their right hand.

Criticism of Purity Teachings by Christians via a Woman’s Personal Testimony

Criticism of Purity Teachings by Christians via a Woman’s Personal Testimony

Before I issue the link and paste in a few excerpts from the testimony, a few words of clarification.

I believe the Bible teaches that sex is for marriage only. This view is under attack.

There is a trend lately among Christians, and from ex-Christians, usually by women who have felt wounded by Christian views on sex, to speak out against sexual purity and virginity teachings one usually hears in churches or sees in Christian publications.

I understand they are hurt and angry. I’m sorry they’ve been hurt by Christian teaching that makes them feel like used merchandise for having sex outside of marriage, or tells them they are damaged goods.

I will say one totally annoying component of these discussions is that a sexual abuse victim usually chirps in to say “what about me?” The thing is, when Christians discuss purity, they almost always have consensual sex in mind.

I’ve seen only a small sliver of alleged Christian groups, such as some Independent Baptist Churches, who blame women for being rape or molestation victims. The vast majority of Christians do not think of sexual assault victims as being to blame or as being “damaged goods.” Sexual assault victims are not to blame for having been violated.

When I personally discuss sexual purity, I am discussing it in terms of consensual sex. Unless I make a post specifically about sexual abuse and rape, always assume I’m referring to consensual sex.

Most of the rejection of sexual purity and virginity- until- marriage teachings I see come from women who were molested or raped. Then there are women who had consensual sex at some point and resent any Christian judging them for this behavior, or for the behavior itself being judged.

While I still believe the Bible condemns consensual sex outside of marriage, I also believe that most churches, preachers, and Christians present discussions of purity, celibacy, and virginity in a way that can be hurtful or too judgemental. It’s not the concept of sexual purity that is wrong, but how it is presented.

Perhaps I will write a long post discussing the attacks on virginity at a later time, but I wanted to preface the following editorial to make my views clear.

This is hosted on Slate:

(Link): My virginity mistake
BY JESSICA CIENCIN HENRIQUEZ
I took an abstinence pledge hoping it would ensure a strong marriage. Instead, it led to a quick divorce

    [The author says she took a purity pledge when younger, remained a virgin until marriage, and the sex she had with her husband on their wedding night was unremarkable]

    Three minutes later when he [her husband] finished [having sex] he appeared pleased with himself and I was glad that it was out of the way.

    …This was not lovemaking. There was no bond, no sanctity – this was not the amazing sex I was promised from the pulpit. This was disappointment three to four times a week.

    Continue reading “Criticism of Purity Teachings by Christians via a Woman’s Personal Testimony”

Gotta Be Trendy and Relevant – The Church Wants Your Sex Part 3

Gotta Be Trendy and Relevant – The Church Wants Your Sex (Part 3)

Don’t you love how the average conservative Christian has fits that approximately 70% percent of Christians admit to having sex outside of marriage, but then, they turn around and endorse tasteless, provocative sexy sexy sermons in their churches about sex, or provide sexually salacious content on their You Tube church videos or church blogs?

Oh yeah, they like to remind listeners that “sex is only for marriage,” but they don’t seem to care that there are un-married Christians listening who are trying to refrain from sex.

It’s bad enough people are flooded with sex in TV, movies, and secular magazines day in and day out, but preachers insist upon sexing up their sermons and blogs too.

I do want to point out that not all singles struggle heavily with sexual temptation or sexual sin. Too often, singles are depicted as raging hormonal horn dogs. Some of us do experience some sexual desire, but we are not all wanking off to naughty photos or have insatiable pr0n addictions.

But still, the constant refrain on sex by churches means that the issues of virginity and celibacy are ignored. There are celibate singles sitting in the pews, but churches offer them no sermons, tips, advice, or encouragment.

I would assume that a lot of these churches that push these sensationalized sex series think they are being cool, trendy, or relevant. Maybe they think the secular culture considers Christians uptight fuddy-duddies when it comes to sex, and they’re trying to change that perception.

The Bible already says that the world (secular society) is not going to embrace Christians or Christianity. So why would a pastor expect, or even care about, how Non-Christians think how Christians view sex?

Some types of Christians keep saying they want to be “counter cultural.” Well, you know, since secular culture is already steeped to the hilt in sex- it’s in all the advertisements and so on – how “counter cultural” is it really to give church attendees more of the same?

As a Christian woman who has remained a virgin at age 40+, despite all the pressure from secular society to Do The Deed, and in spite of all the feminists in the 1980s during my teen years telling me I’m repressed or not as empowered if I’m not Doing It, and in spite of all the Christian pressure to pair off and marry just to have sex and pop out a kid, I’m already pretty “counter cultural.”

–SEXISM ALERT–

I have noticed in most of the ads for these church-sponsored sex sermons, a female form is chosen for illustrative purposes.

In one graphic for one church’s advertisement, a woman’s feet in pink stiletto heels is shown. In another, part of a woman’s face with red lips is used (that picture included with this post).

Why are these churches not using buff, sexy hot young shirtless men in their ads? Why show close-ups of female body parts? It’s hypocritical and sexist. And notice that the females they choose are always young and white. So we have possible racism and ageism going on as well. / Sexism Alert Over

“The Museum of Idoltary” (alittleleaven.com) has many examples of what it calls “Christian Erotica” that Christians and churches are pushing on the Christian community. Here are a few examples.

(Link): Porn star speaks at Hudsonville church

    Adult film actor Ron Jeremy spoke of business, God

    Published : Sunday, 21 Oct 2012, 6:53 PM EDT

    HUDSONVILLE, Mich. (WOOD) – Hundreds of people attended a Hudsonville church Sunday to hear a famous adult film actor speak at an event.

    Ron Jeremy spoke at Daybreak Church in Hudsonville, causing some curious conversations among members of the church.

    “Some of the people I work with and some of the people I know were wondering why would he ever be coming to speak at our church,” church member Julie Murphy said.

    Jeremy played piano and harmonica to warm up the crowd before his light and upbeat message. He was invited as part of a duo; he spoke alongside California pastor Craig Gross. Gross runs the website http://www.XXXChurch.com, a ministry aimed at helping those with an addiction to pornography.

(Link): Video: Ignite Church Members singing “I’m Sexy and I Know It”

(Link): Sex Sermon by Preacher: Carrot Vs Doughnut

(Link): video with sermon: Jesus is Bringing Sexy Back

Whoa. I just read the description next to the “Jesus is Bringing Sexy Back” video on the video page (I haven’t watched the video), and this preacher ties the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ to sex? And this is part of his Easter sermons series? What?
(click the “read more” link to read the rest of this post)

Continue reading “Gotta Be Trendy and Relevant – The Church Wants Your Sex Part 3”

More Schadenfreude – Glad Not To Be Married Series

More Schadenfreude – Glad Not To Be Married Series

((Link): See other posts in this series.)

From the Carolyn Hax advice column:

How About Using Celibates as Role Models For Celibacy? (Oddity: Christians Holding Up Non-Virgins [Fornicators] As Being Experts or Positive Examples on Sexual Purity)

How About Using Celibates as Role Models For Celibacy? (Oddity: Christians Holding Up Non-Virgins [Fornicators] As Being Experts or Positive Examples on Sexual Purity)

((DISCLAIMER. This post is addressing consensual sex, NOT sexual abuse or rape.))

As one regular blog visitor, John M.(*) has noted on a prior post or two, Christian culture has a very peculiar habit of holding up Non-Virgins as role models on virginity (or celibacy, sexual purity), and I’m not talking about married Christian people who have remained faithful to their spouse (which is also a tad annoying as far as using marrieds as spokes-persons for singles or for issues singles face), but also people who had sex before they were married.

Often in these stories, the so-called authority on sexual purity had sex as a teen or 20-something, but then decided to stop having sex until marriage. So technically, these sorts of individuals are not virgins.

Some of these individuals, ones who committed fornication, like to call themselves “spiritual virgins,” “secondary virgins” or “born again virgins.”(No, I’m not kidding about that, see this older post at this blog.)

Some Christian organizations, such as Ron Luce’s, teach kids about a concept called “Emotional Virginity.” (Yes, they do. (Link): See this post.)

I can only assume there is a corollary teaching in such groups, something called “Born Again Emotional Virginity,” or “Spiritual Emotional Virginity,” for those teens who have failed to keep “Emotional Virginity.” (Not that I believe in such a concept of “Emotional Virginity” myself; it sounds ridiculous and unbiblical.)

God certainly does forgive people their sexual sin, but coming up with terms such as “born again virgin” and the like to denote that you are forgiven for your fornication, and to ease your conscience on some level, cheapens honest- to- goodness virginity.

Such terminology and such attitudes (and it comes up regularly in secular and Christian feminist, anti- purity/ anti- modesty writings on the internet, too) makes a mockery of those of us who have literally held out past the age of 35 or 40 and are still virgins – not figuratively, allegorically virgin, but really- and- truly- we’ve- never- had- sex variety type of virgin.

-Churches and Christians Hold Up Fornicators As Paragons of Sexual Virtue-

Things get a little stranger when one realizes that in the Christian blogging, television, and magazine world, and on the speaking circuit, Christian fornicators (those who had sex before getting married) are held up as experts or as role models for sexual purity to teen-agers and young adults.

(I’d like to pause here to say, for the billionth time, celibacy and virginity are not just for Christians under the age of 25 or 30, when will the church address the needs and concerns of unmarried celibates past the age of 30? Most Christians continually assume that nobody is strong enough to resist the urge of sex past the age of 25 / 30, which is incorrect, since some of us have in fact done so.)

I just blogged the other day about an article from “Christian Post” online magazine about a woman, Gresh, who is hired to speak to teens or write literature for them concerning sexual purity, yet she had sex when she was 15 years old, and she was not married at the time. She says she regrets having been sexually active outside marriage.

I am not sure why the Christian community likes to hold up failures at sexual mores as pristine examples for youth to follow.

Maybe most Christians assume one who has failed at sexual purity but recommitted to celibacy at a later date is more relateable for teens. Maybe the thinking is such individuals have more insight because they made a mistake but conquered it or learned from it.

Here’s a novel idea, preachers and Christian community:

How about holding up Christians who have not failed at sexual purity as role models for sexual purity? If a Christian did not yield to sexual pressure as a teen or 20 something and is still an actual virgin (not a “born again virgin” but a genuine one) past the age of 40, Christians can learn from them.

The Bible contains advice in the Old Testament along the lines that if you want to know how to become wealthy, hang out with, befriend, and talk to wealthy people. The Bible does not say to hang out with people who are living in poverty or take financial tips from spend thrifts, or to take monetary advice from welfare recipients, now does it? No, it doesn’t.

The Old Testament also says, if you want to find out how to be wise, then associate and question wise people, and learn from the wise. The Bible does not say, “If you want to find out how to be wise, befriend and take advice from the biggest idiots you know, or people who regularly make foolish choices.”

So, wouldn’t it make sense for churches and pastors to point to Christians who are still virgins at age 35 and beyond as experts or role models for sexual purity?

I’m afraid one reason many churches do not is that there are several stereotypes about never-married celibate adults. The truth is that most older celibate Christians are HETERO sexual and have normal sexual drives.

(Please click the “read more” link to read the rest of this post)

Continue reading “How About Using Celibates as Role Models For Celibacy? (Oddity: Christians Holding Up Non-Virgins [Fornicators] As Being Experts or Positive Examples on Sexual Purity)”

Mother’s Day Ain’t A Happy Holiday For Some

Mother’s Day Ain’t A Happy Holiday For Some

Presenting a list of links about how Mother’s Day can be hurtful or irritating to some people and how Christians need to wake up and start showing more sensitivity in this area:

(Link): Remember the Infertile on Mother’s Day

Excerpts:

  • Mother’s Day is a particularly sensitive time in many congregations, and pastors and church leaders often don’t even know it. This is true even in congregations that don’t focus the entire service around the event as if it were a feast day on the church’s liturgical calendar. Infertile women, and often their husbands, are still often grieving in the shadows.
  • It is good and right to honor mothers. The Bible calls us to do so. Jesus does so with his own mother. We must recognize though that many infertile women find this day almost unbearable. This is not because these women are (necessarily) bitter or covetous or envious. The day is simply a reminder of unfulfilled longings, longings that are good.
  • ….What if pastors and church leaders were to set aside a day for prayer for children for the infertile?
  • ….In too many churches ministry to infertile couples is relegated to support groups that meet in the church basement during the week, under cover of darkness. Now it’s true that infertile couples need each other. The time of prayer and counsel with people in similar circumstances can be helfpul.
  • But this alone can contribute to the sense of isolation and even shame experienced by those hurting in this way.

There were aspects of this page I did not agree with:

(Link): Is Mother’s Day Insensitive? (from a 2010 blog post)

-But the author was quite correct when he said:

  • Perhaps the church could tone down the celebration, encouraging private family celebrations, while at the same time inviting those without mothers or women without children to partake in those celebrations. After all, we are (supposedly) a family.

(Link): Remember the Infertile on Mother’s Day

(Link): Some Do’s & Don’ts on Mother’s day

Excerpts:

  • Last Mother’s Day I made it a point not to take the whole “Mother’s Day” Phenom inn the church not too far. I talked about how insensitive we can be on Mother’s Day. I talked about barrenness, horrible mom’s, etc. After the service a young woman that recently started attending came and spoke with me. She thanked me. She said for years Mother’s day had been so awkward for her. She felt guilty. She felt less than other women because she was barren. She said that she had never been to a church that made her feel comfortable on Mother’s Day. That really humbled me. It inspired me to be careful on Mother’s day.
  • I certainly hope no one takes this post the wrong way. I have nothing against women. My mom is a woman. I married a woman. My daughter is on her way to womanhood. So please, bear with me. I just want to vent a little bit. If we are not careful as a church we can go a little overboard on Mother’s Day. In fact, as far as our worship service goes, it can become “Smothers Day”. Rather than focusing on Christ our focus can easily shift to people. I am aware that God has lots to say about moms. And I also believe that mothers are under appreciated and overlooked in our society. We could write volumes on those two truths. However, I want to use this space to steer our churches in the right direction this Mother’s Day.

1) Don’t say “Being a mother is the greatest privilege in the world.” Here are a few reasons why we shouldn’t say that:

* It isn’t true. Being a child of the King is the greatest privilege in the world.

* It is hurtful. It implies that if you are a father or a barren/childless mom you can’t enjoy the greatest privilege in the world.

* It is disingenuous. Honest people listening to us know that statement isn’t true. It can cause folks to tune us out for the rest of the service.

2) Don’t plan the worship service around moms. We do not go to church to celebrate anyone except Jesus.

4) Don’t deify moms. I’m convinced that some people want to go to heaven simply because their mother is there. I will guarantee you that there is not a mother in heaven that wants to be the center of attention. Everyone in heaven has their eternal attention on the Lamb of God. And please don’t portray mom’s as the greatest gift ever given to us! I think John 3:16 lays that one out for us pretty plain.

7) Do comfort those that are barren or single or have lost children.

((Link): Click here to read the rest of the post)

(Link): Mourning with Those Who Mourn on Mother’s Day

Continue reading “Mother’s Day Ain’t A Happy Holiday For Some”

My Blog Avatar

My ChristianPundit Avatar

When I turned the options for avatars on for this blog, it automatically assigned me this blue-colored face avatar:

Christian Pundit Avatar
Christian Pundit Avatar

That avatar either makes me look like…

1) I’m worried / nervous;

2) Constipated (need more fiber in my diet); or

3) Like I’m holding my breath

What a goofy avatar. It wouldn’t be my first choice if I had a choice. No, I don’t feel like customizing it. I’m stuck looking at the stupid thing.

Sexual Purity Under Attack in Nation’s Schools, Says Christian Author Dannah Gresh

Sexual Purity Under Attack in Nation’s Schools, Says Christian Author Dannah Gresh

Before you read the link/ editorial below, please see my previous post:

(Link, previous post at Christian Pundit Blog): The Contemporary Church Undervalues Celibacy / Virginity

(Link): (“Sexual Purity Under Attack”)

I can’t get too excited about the page or the efforts, because once again, all the concern is for the under- age- 25 demographic.

Christians don’t give a rat’s ass about anyone who is actually a virgin, still unmarried past the age of 30. Regardless, here are a few excerpts from the page (click the link to read the whole article):

    By Melissa Barnhart, May 11, 2013

    Dannah Gresh, a best-selling author and advocate for the sexual purity movement, was a featured speaker at this year’s TEDxPSU event at Pennsylvania State University, and spoke about sexual myths that are hurting teenagers and college students who are navigating a culture that promotes tolerance of all sexual behaviors and choices, except abstinence.

    “We’re waving the banner of tolerance over the nation, but the one thing that’s not tolerated is abstinence and sexual purity,” said Gresh in an interview with The Christian Post on Wednesday. “Something parents don’t understand is that their teenagers are living in an age where virginity isn’t tolerated.”
    Continue reading “Sexual Purity Under Attack in Nation’s Schools, Says Christian Author Dannah Gresh”

American Christians Idolize Motherhood – Mommy Rhapsody

American Christians Idolize Motherhood

Please see my previous post that I just made an hour or two ago before this one:

(Link): Un Happy Mother’s Day – universal church continues to worship parenthood, family

I did not plan on making another post about this subject so soon (or at all, really), but I just listened to an online radio program, hosted by Chris R. (“Fighting for the Faith, Christian Pirate Radio”). Reminder: I do NOT agree with all this guy’s view points (see this post). Sometimes Chris R. is right on the money, sometimes he is very wrong. About this Motherhood topic, I think he’s correct.

Here’s the specific Chris R. radio show I listened to:
Fake It Til You Make It?

On that radio show, Chris mentions that his church will NOT be honoring motherhood at his church this Sunday (Mother’s Day). He says his preacher will not be acknowledging motherhood at all.

What Chris also mentions is that some churches, on Mother’s Day, perform some horrid song in front of the congregation called “Mommy Rhapsody.”

Chris says there are a million videos of different churches putting on a “Mommy Rhapsody” during Sunday church services in honor of Mother’s Day. You can view these performances here on You Tube:

(Link): Mommy Rhapsody on You Tube

I have a pretty good sense of humor, and unlike Chris, I’m not opposed to some frivolity in church services, but this “Mommy Rhapsody” crap is ridiculous. It’s perhaps even worse than the ‘handing of carnations’ to all the mothers.

Un Happy Mother’s Day – universal church continues to worship parenthood, family

Un Happy Mother’s Day – universal church continues to worship parenthood, family

I am not anti-mother or anti-motherhood. I had a mom, and I loved her very much.

Mother’s Day can be painful or highly annoying to different people for different reasons, but do most Christians realize this or care? No, they do not.

Mother’s Day can be a difficult reminder for those of us whose mothers are dead.

Some women want to get pregnant and have a baby, but cannot, because they or their husband are infertile. Some women keep having miscarriages.

Some people are estranged from their mothers, maybe because their mother was abusive to them as they were growing up. They didn’t have a close, loving relationship with their mothers for whatever reason.

All these groups find Mother’s Day difficult.

Churches compound this pain or difficulty by making an idol out of parenting and tossing reminders of motherhood and family into people’s faces.

Many churches try to honor mothers or motherhood on Mother’s Day. The pastor will usually say a few words about mothers during a church service, and hand out free carnations to each Mom in attendance. The mothers are asked to stand in recognition.

Does the church celebrate the never-married adults in its midst? How about the preacher saying, “For the never-married, we salute you! Please stand so that we may honor you and hand you a carnation.” Do preachers ever do this for the child-free or child less, or the divorced or the widowed? No. If such a local church exists, I’ve never heard of it.

It’s not just Mother’s Day holiday in America that get churches going on this parenting celebration.

The idolization of family and parenthood is a year round ordeal. One frequently hears from the pulpit or Christian blogs and television programs how important fathers are, how valuable “the family” (as in nuclear family) is. “The family” is supposedly the backbone of American society (singles don’t matter and are irrelevant apparently).

Why do churches and Christian organizations never discuss how important all members of the body of Christ are, whether divorced, never married, widowed, male, female?

“The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” (1 Corinthians 12).

Where does the Bible say that families or moms, dad, kids are more important than un-married adults or are a backbone, or play a more central role in church or society?

Jesus Christ emphasized His spiritual family, not flesh and blood ties, and He instructed believers to take the same stance.

I went to a church once, and even though it was summer and Mother’s Day was long past, the preacher took about 15 minutes out of a service, to ask all the mothers of new-born babies to step forward, so they all came to the front, some with their babies.

The preacher than lectured about motherhood for a while, and said words of blessings over the babies.

Sounds very charming and what all doesn’t it? But at my mid-30s at the time, and wanting a family of my own, his little ode to motherhood made me feel excluded and served as another reminder of what I did not have. I cried in my car on the drive home.

The thing that makes me even more infuriated, I think, than a Christian culture that keeps excluding those who don’t have a spouse and kids, are the Christians who show up on Christian blogs by well-known Christian publications, when a writer tells Christians to be more sensitive to infertile or childless women on Mother’s Day, to say “we should celebrate with those who are celebrating – so what if a few people in the church are offended, we shouldn’t stop making a big deal out of motherhood.”

It never, ever fails. Every time a Christian site publishes a “let’s all be more sensitive to the child-free or childless on Mother’s Day among us and maybe tone down the “Rah Rah Motherhood” stuff,” some idiot, some jerk (and it’s almost always a woman), will leave a post saying “no way, uh-uh, the childless and the infertiles can just suck it up and deal, because those with children should be recognized. Stop being selfish and demanding church your own way, women without children.”

The depth and breadth of their heartlessness is stunning.

These idiots frequently overlook the rest of the bible passage which says to “weep with those who are weeping.” Handing out free carnations to all the mothers in the audience, while those who can’t get married, who have miscarriages, or who are infertile or who cannot adopt, is the height of insensitivity.

That these idiots are willing to cause deep emotional pain to certain females in their congregation, and all so they can get a free flower and a shout out from the preacher on a Sunday morning, makes me ill. I want to punch them in their stupid faces.

You mean to tell me, you pushy mother (or hyper- pro-motherhood person), that to spare some people’s feelings and hearts from breaking again, you cannot live without a flower, or without a mention from the pulpit on Mother’s Day? You people (mothers) get the rest of the year too, as most churches frequently opine and romanticize motherhood and fatherhood, and marriage, year-round, too.

Nothing is stopping nuclear families from celebrating Mother’s Day at home, or in a restaurant after church services. It is not necessary for a church to put on a Mom’s Day service every year, but many do.

Motherhood is fine, but making people feel excluded or hurt by highlighting motherhood year round, and culminating on Mother’s Day in a big old big ado by a pastor on a Sunday morning service, is not.

The Bible itself holds the spiritual family up over and above motherhood and other fleshly family relations. It’s too bad most churches, which claim to be “biblical,” do not actually follow the Bible on this point.

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Related Posts:

(Link):  Your Church’s Mother’s Day Carnation is Not Worth Any Woman’s Broken Heart – A Critique of ‘When Mother’s Day Feels Like a Minefield’ by L. L. Fields

(Link): Are Marriage and Family A Woman’s Highest Calling? by Marcia Wolf – and other links that address the Christian fallacy that a woman’s most godly or only proper role is as wife and mother

(Link): Mommy Blogger Confesses in Blog Post that Mommy Blogging is a Bunch of Fake, Happy-Clappy B.S. – Kind of Like Most Christian Adult Singleness Blogs

Family as “The” Backbone of Society? – It’s Not In The Bible

Family as “The” Backbone of Society?

I was kind of half-listening to today’s (April 10, 2013) episode Christian television program “The 700 Club,” being hosted by Gordon (Pat Robertson’s son).

I can’t remember the context of the comment he made, it might have followed the segment about adoption, but after bemoaning the number of single parent households and how fathers don’t hang around any longer, Robertson made the comment that “families are the backbone of society.” Are they really? Where does the Bible teach that?

If you would like to posit that families are “A” building block of society, I might not argue with that, but to imply it’s “THE” building block, or the “only” or “the most important” backbone of society? I do take issue with that.

The fact is some people do not HAVE families.

Some people never had kids and their spouse is dead.

There are people such as me who never married and never had kids.

Gordon Robertson is not the first or only conservative evangelical Christian to make this “the family is the building block of society” argument, I’ve seen it repeated time and again for over 25 years by other Christians and even by Non Christian conservatives.

I too am a conservative and am not “anti family,” but you know…

If your theology, doctrine, and world view as a Christian leaves no place, concern, or thought for UNMARRIED people, or for the INFERTILE, or for the WIDOWED, here’s a clue- by- four over your head: you might be making marriage, parenting, and the nuclear family into an IDOL, making something of “the family” that God never intended.

Jesus Christ taught if you put your family above Him and His church (that is, other believers who may not be related to you physically), you are not worthy to follow Him.

Almost 50% of the American population is single these days, so that un-married people are part of the “backbone of society” these days. (Edit. As of 2014, single adults are now over half of the American population, please see (Link): this post)
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Related posts:

(Link): Misuse of Terms Such As “Traditional Families” by Christians – Re: Kirk Cameron, Homosexual Marriage, and the 2014 Grammys

(Link): Hypocrisy: Conservative Christians / Catholics Pressure Women To Feel Their Only Worth is in Becoming Mothers, But If Women Try to Use Medical Technology to Get Pregnant, the Women Are Condemned by The Same Groups

(Link):  Statistics Show Single Adults Now Outnumber Married Adults in the United States

(Link): If the Family Is Central, Christ Isn’t

(Link): The Term “Family Values” And Its Use By Christians – Vis A Vis story: Grandma Gives Teen Granddaughter a Vibrator

(Link):  Facebook’s motherhood challenge makes me want to punch my computer screen by F. Everett

Male Preacher Marries For First Time At Age 44

Male Preacher Marries For First Time At Age 44

Please note: the following is hosted by on the site of the “Biblical Counseling Coalition”. I disagree with their views as to the causes and treatment of mental health issues.

(Link): The Bachelor Pastor: Three Reflections From my Single Life

His article is very long, so please click the link above to read the whole thing. Here are just a few excerpts:

    AUGUST 19, 2012: I have waited 44 years to write this. It is my last sermon as a single man. This coming Saturday I will marry the love of my life, Miss Jennifer Terrell.

    The unusual circumstances of my marriage give me an opportunity to say some important things. The first circumstance that makes my marriage atypical is my age. I am 44 years and 7 months old. If the national average age for a man’s first marriage is 28, this means I’ve had more time than average to think about these things.

    The second circumstance is my role in the church. I have been a pastor for 20 years and senior pastor here at Bethel for 15. My observation is that bachelor pastors are rarer than Packer fans at Soldier Field, and they are sometimes treated like them. They receive disparaging comments, questions of sexual orientation, and the like.

    These challenges are often overlooked in the church and I have one last chance to write about them as an insider, before I become one of those married pastors telling singles how they should feel.

    Many people have had the misunderstanding that my singleness was somehow related to a monkish vow of ministry or that I was so focused on Jesus that I had no interest in women or marriage. To the contrary, I have had my marriage radar on high alert since I went to college. I wasn’t desperate, and clearly wasn’t in a hurry, but I have greatly desired marriage and the blessings that go with it. In fact, I would say if I erred on any side, I have erred on marriage being too important.

    Related post this blog:

    (Link): Woman’s First Marriage at Age 40+

Article: ‘That’s Odd’: On Bias Against Single Pastors

Article: ‘That’s Odd’: On Bias Against Single Pastors

Please note: the following is hosted by the Gospel Coalition Blog. They are “gender complementarians” and tend to be Reformed. I vehemently disagree with gender complementarianism and do not accept Reformed theology (to me, it’s the same as Calvinism, and I don’t like Calvinism either).

Excerpts (the guy who wrote this later went on to get married for the first time at age 44):

(Link): ‘That’s Odd’: On Bias Against Single Pastors

    A friend wrote me about how I would respond to the recent New York Times article chronicling the frustration of singles pursing pastoral positions. I probably came to his mind because I am both single and a pastor. I am completing 14 years as senior pastor at Bethel Church—a church that bucked the apparent bias and took a risk on a 29-year-old single fellow. It has proved to be a great ministry partnership. I am no crusader for singleness in ministry, and I address this subject with a fair amount of shyness. Truthfully, I would very much like a wife and family and have prayed consistently since I was 18 for God’s provision and gift.

    I am well aware of the cultural expectations for marriage and ministry, both here and in other parts of the world. I recall candid discussions in Sierra Leone and Romania where men are not allowed to be pastors without a wife. An unmarried American pastor teaching and preaching there was a source of some concern and amusement. I have experienced countless moments of bewilderment and awkwardness from others when I answer their inquiry about my wife and children by pointing to the lack of a ring on my finger. The U.S. evangelical church’s perspective is well summarized by an experience in North Dakota a few weeks ago. I was enjoying a visit with some former members of our church when their 6-year-old daughter whispered to her mom, “Is he married?” She replied, “No.” The little girl proclaimed loudly, “That’s odd!”

    Not a bad summary of the attitude The New York Times highlighted when it comes to singles in pastoral ministry: “That’s odd!”

    Should It Be?

    The question is, should it be? From the perspective of the New Testament, it is hard to see why. As is often pointed out, the head and hero of the church is a single adult male. Jesus obviously gets a Messianic pass and is not often factored into the “oughtness” of married pastoral leadership. Yet the early church was dominated by apparently single men (at least when the manuscripts were written): John the Baptist, Paul, Luke, Silas, Barnabas, Timothy, and Titus. When this list is combined with a single Savior, we should at least be in a position of neutrality on the matter.

    It would be hard to see Paul as neutral, at least in respect to his own singleness in 1 Corinthians 7. He speaks to the single man’s freedom from anxieties (7:32) and freedom to serve with “undivided devotion” (7:35). The married man (pastor) has responsibilities that “divide” his attention. This is balanced by Paul’s affirmation that marital responsibilities are good and holy and also a “gift” (7:6). Paul teaches neither singleness nor marriage is inherently more spiritual or holy, although the freedoms of singleness lead him to say, “I wish that all men were as I am” (7:8). Paul’s basic starting point is that marital status in the kingdom is spiritually neutral, each with its own benefits and responsibilities.

Click here to read the rest

Westboro Mingle Dating Site

Westboro Mingle.com Dating Site (Satire)

Watch the video (parody of the Fred Phelps Westboro Church whose members picket funerals with picket signs that say “God Hates Fags” and “God Hates America”):


Related Posts:

This is NOT parody, it’s for real:

(Link):  Dating Site Bans White Supremacist From Their Site