Pastor Actually Questions, in the Year 2017, If It’s Acceptable for Mothers to Work Outside of the Home.

Pastor Actually Questions, in the Year 2017, If It’s Acceptable for Mothers to Work Outside of the Home.

I cannot believe we are in the year 2017, and Christians are still asking about this sort of thing and pontificating about it. To even ask and muse about this in 2017 is just sexist.

In regards to this story linked to below, Dee of Wartburg Watch asked on Twitter, something along the lines of, how much money does preacher Todd Wagner earn so that his wife (assuming he has a wife and kids) is able to stay at home all day to watch their kids?

How many of the women in Wagner’s church congregation (who may even be mothers themselves) have jobs outside the home, part of whose job income are paid to him in tithes, so that he can afford to have his wife stay at home and be a stay at home mother?

(Link): Does the Bible Say It’s OK for Moms to Work?

Excerpts:

July 28, 2017

by Sheryl Lynn

The pastor of a multi-site church in Texas [Watermark Community Church] recently responded to a question on whether the Bible says it’s OK for moms to work.

While it’s not forbidden, Todd Wagner questioned the motive behind a mother choosing to work over being at home with her children.

// end excerpt

“While it’s not forbidden.” – Yes, you can end it right there. Anything beyond this is Wagner’s opinion.

Church Tries to Punish Girls Who Sued Over Sex Abuse by Outing Them – Singles: Don’t Take Dating Advice from Religious Groups Who Think It’s Acceptable to Harass Rape Victims – And Dump Equally Yoked Teaching

Church Tries to Punish Girls Who Sued Over Sex Abuse by Outing Them – Singles: Don’t Take Dating Advice from Religious Groups Who Think It’s Acceptable to Harass Rape Victims – And Dump Equally Yoked Teaching

This story is horrible enough as it is, and another indicator of how unsympathetic and awful churches are towards abuse victims of all kinds.

However, I also wanted to add this observation, as outlined in the next few paragraphs.

I was taught as a kid that Christian singles are only to marry other Christians, which is sometimes called “being equally yoked.”

My parents, who were Christians, would advise me when I was younger to seek out a spouse in a local church, if I wanted to marry.

In light of stories like the one I’m posting here, I don’t think I consider churches a good place to meet potential dates or mates any longer. I am questioning that.

If church members think it’s compassionate or acceptable to be hostile to child sex abusive victims and to protect the pedophile who assaulted them, one wonders how heartless and immoral the persons at that church must be in other areas, and how terrible their judgement concerning other things is.

Pro-Rape Pastor Defends Church’s Hiring of Child Rapist – Adult Singles: Dump the Equally Yoked Teaching

Pro-Rape Pastor Defends Church’s Hiring of Child Rapist – Adult Singles: Dump the Equally Yoked Teaching

I spotted this link (shared farther down page) when it was shared on WatchKeep’s Twitter today. My blog is not about child sexual abuse per se. I tend to focus, most often, on issues surrounding adult singleness.

If you are an adult Christian single who wants to be married, please reconsider following the “Be equally yoked” teaching. Whether or not the guy in this news story I have in this blog post is a “true” Christian or not is beside the point.

You can date a Christian man who you believe to be a “true” Christian – maybe you met him at church (which is pretty rare because single males do not attend churches), or maybe you met him on a Christian dating site (which some Christian men have used to select rape victims), and he shows all the outward signs of “loving the Lord” and so on and so forth – but then it is revealed he is a child rapist.

Would you really want to discover the guy you married is a child rapist, or views child porn?

I also question the pastor of this church who is defending the child rapist: could you imagine marrying a preacher, who you would assume is a godly man, only to find out he blames child rape victims for having been raped?

Also be aware that pedophiles actively seek wife material at churches. That’s right, single Christian lady: some guy who is a pedophile may start flirting with you at church or in Sunday School, hoping you will date and marry him. I did (Link): a post about this several days ago.

(Link):  Pro-Rape Pastor Defends Church’s Hiring of Child Rapist

Excerpt:

April 15, 2016

A Kentucky pastor is defending the decision to allow a convicted sex offender [Thomas Hopper] to work at his church [Truth Apostolic Church].

… Hopper was convicted of rape and sodomy of a 13-year-old girl in the early 1990s, followed by multiple criminal convictions in the early 2000s.  …

If You Were Sexually Abused, You Cannot Work At These Churches

If You Were Sexually Abused, You Cannot Work At These Churches

Not only is child sexual abuse addressed on some of these employment forms, but according to these articles (links farther below), some churches ask applicants about their views on fornication, or if they’ve ever been accused of homosexuality.

I find this pretty hypocritical. If you’ve followed this blog before, you know I was waiting until marriage to have sex – as a result, I am now over 40 years of age and still a virgin, because I never married.

What I have observed as I’ve gotten older is that while many Christians pay “lip service” to respecting adult virginity or celibacy, that in practice, they do not.

Sometimes, some Christians (conservatives, no less, but also most progressives) ridicule and mock virginity, and they ridicule or put down adult virgins for being virgins. (Please see the links under the “Related Posts” at the bottom of this post for examples.)

Not only is there little to no philosophical, theological, or intellectual support for adult virginity (and by extension, adult singleness past one’s mid 20s or so), but there is no concrete support – churches and Christians seldom have ministries to meet the needs of adult single celibates.

There are rarely sermons preached on a regular basis on adult single celibacy – compare that to the topic of marriage. Most churches offer a “ten steps to a stronger marriage” type sermon series once every few weeks but never sermonize about singleness.

Single, Adult Woman Lies on Church Employment Form About Pre-Marital Sex and Sexual Orientation, Says Friend – Letter to Ask Amy Advice Column

Single, Adult Woman Lies on Church Employment Form About Pre-Marital Sex and Sexual Orientation, Says Friend – Letter to Ask Amy Advice Column

I’ll paste in the letter below, and probably Amy’s response. I think Amy dropped the ball on her reply, for the most part.

I’m using this letter not so much as it pertains to homosexuality, but the phenomenon of singles (or anyone, I guess) lying about their sexual habits or pasts, especially in a church context.

When I was growing up, my parents encouraged me to seek a marital partner at church. The thought being that I could meet a decent, kind, stable man at a church and marry the guy.

The problem is (as I’ve detailed on this blog time and again) is that churches attract all sorts of weirdos, perverts, and losers (and liars).

If you are a single Christian woman who insists on meeting a single man at a church, you better be well aware that just because a guy is attending church, works at said church, or says he loves Jesus and is a Christian, does not mean he is a nice guy or is honest. He might be a child rapist, a woman abuser, or have a raging pornography addiction.

The letter below is about a lesbian woman who misrepresented herself (her sexual nature / sexual history) to a church to get hired, contra to  Ask Amy’s spin on it (you can read a copy of this letter here):

• Dear Amy:
• I have a huge dilemma. “Jane” and I have been good friends since middle school. I love her like a sister.
• Recently, Jane accepted a job at a church as the youth director in the town where we attend college. She is good with youth and is very outgoing.
• However, Jane was not fully truthful when applying for this job.
• The church asked all applicants to affirm its faith statement and a code of behavior that prohibits premarital sex. Jane signed the code of behavior, indicating that she would not have premarital sex.
• To further confuse the issue, she told them that she did not have a boyfriend. In truth, Jane does have sex. However, she is a (quiet) lesbian.

Church Knew of Preacher’s Affairs, Advised Him To Keep It Quiet

Church Knew of Preacher’s Affairs, Advised Him To Keep It Quiet

This is a follow up to my previous post (there are further updates at the bottom of this post):

• (Link): Preacher Tullian Tchividjian Possibly Involved in Another Inappropriate Sexual Relationship (March 2016) / Why Do Christians Not Have a RBGR – Reverse Billy Graham Rule

The pastor I reference in my headline of this blog post is Tullian Tchividjian.

I know I probably should not be surprised at this point, but I still find myself surprised or dumbfounded at how so many Christians or churches today do not take sexual sins seriously.

I already know that most churches prefer to hear sexual purity sermons (Link): from fornicators than they do from actual, honest- to- God adult virgins.

But I thought, maybe, just maybe, some churches out there at least have the sense to sermonize against adultery and other sorts of sexual sins, or hold sexual sinners  ~ especially pastors who commit adultery or some other sort of sexual sin – accountable.

But no. They don’t.

This article says that this church knew about their preacher’s adultery (even the previous one), and asked him to keep it hush-hush.

Unbelievable.

What is that verse from the Bible, again?: “God is shamed and judged negatively among the Gentiles because of your behavior.” -or something like that.

Okay, take that verse and reword it slightly to, “God is shamed and judged harshly among the Non-Christians because of your behavior,” and I think that would apply.

Do these churches and people claiming the name of Jesus Christ not care at all about what Jesus taught?

Do churches today and Christians not care about Christian ethics and morality, about doing the right thing, even if doing so may be unpopular?

How can anyone who claims to be a Jesus-follower be so causal about following His teachings?

Note that this other woman he had an affair with is MARRIED.

That’s right, Christians like to depict SINGLE women as the threats to married men, when here we have married people cheating on their spouses with OTHER MARRIED PEOPLE.

(Link): Coral Ridge Elders Knew of Tullian Tchividjian’s Affair With Married Woman, Advised Him to Keep Secret, Source Alleges 

• BY LEONARDO BLAIR , CHRISTIAN POST REPORTER
• March 18, 2016|4:07 pm

• At least two elders at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida allegedly had knowledge that their former pastor, Tullian Tchividjian, grandson to evangelical icon Billy Graham, had engaged in an adulterous affair with a married member of his flock and advised him to keep it secret from his wife.

  Reacting to a (Link): report in The Christian Post Thursday that Tchividjian was fired by Willow Creek Church in Winter Springs, Florida, after they were blindsided by his latest confession, a highly placed source informed CP Friday that the recent disclosure is really the result of a “systemic cover up” by church leaders that began two years ago.

  “Tullian had actually been confronted about that two years ago. At the time, he was confronted by two elders at Coral Ridge and Steve Brown (Key Life Ministries), and confessed to having a relationship with a married woman,” said the source.

  “At the time, he was not advised to step down as lead pastor, but instead was advised not to immediately inform his wife about the matter — she only learned about this last week. To make matters worse, the two elders never informed the rest of the session about this situation. One can only wonder whether the second situation could have been averted if the first situation had not been covered up,” the source continued.

  “This is not a situation that Tullian had kept quiet and suddenly disclosed to someone for the first time last week. It’s been known by at least three others in addition to Tullian and the woman involved for over two years,” the source added.

❤ Valentine’s Day, the Church and Single Awareness Day? by J. Storment

❤ Valentine’s Day, the Church and Single Awareness Day? by J. Storment  ❤

I don’t think I am actually going to make a Valentine’s Day post this year ON the day itself, or shortly before.

Valentine’s Day is this Sunday, so you can consider this here post this blog’s annual Valentine’s Day (Singles Awareness Day) post.

Unless I come across a really groovy, outstanding V-Day post between now and then, this is it, then I will consider logging in and making a new post – but I will be kind of busy later this week, so I don’t know if I will have time.

The following is a blog post that covers much of the same ground my own blog has addressed:

(Link): Valentines Day, the Church and Single Awareness Day? by J. Storment (on Jesus Creed blog)

Excerpts:

So unfortunately this year Valentine’s Day falls on a Sunday.

I say unfortunately because in most of the churches I’ve seen in life make a really big deal about marriage and families and romance and kids and happily ever after, and rightfully so. Those are good gifts from God in many people’s lives.

But what is so unfortunate about Feb 14th falling on a Sunday this year, is that many (most) churches have gone beyond celebrating marriage and family.

For the past several decades we’ve all but idolized it.

… Stanley Hauerwas points out that when Christianity first was introduced to the pagan world it changed the way they viewed marriage because it de-idolized it. After all, there was no more radical act in that day than to live a life without producing heirs.

Single Adult Christian Pressured Into Marriage by Her Church – And Regrets It

Single Adult Christian Pressured Into Marriage by Her Church – And Regrets It

A few excerpts by a single adult who was pressured to marry by her church but later regretted the marriage and divorced:

(Link): Singles ‘Need’ The Freedom To Choose by All Thinx Christian

I would never have thought the church would be a place where people were compelled to be married, but I found out the hard way that it is.

…Despite my yieldedness  and commitment to the LORD and His people, I was somewhat marginalized and often treated badly (disrespected and short-changed whenever possible) by God’s people.

When I complained about and challenged this behavior in one of the pastors I highly regarded and who was my mentor at the time, he informed me the problem with giving me full leadership support and integrating me into the life of the church was due to unmarried state. He said to me “If you were married, it would be different.”

After about another year of this very painful treatment and believing that the only reason for it was because I was unmarried, one day I went before the LORD and said “If marriage is what it will take for me to be properly treated in the church, then send me somebody and I will marry him.”

Leaving Christianity gave me the fairy-tale ending I always wanted / Divorce and pre-marital sex destroyed my relationship with Christianity by T. Sheehan

Leaving Christianity gave me the fairy-tale ending I always wanted / Divorce and pre-marital sex destroyed my relationship with Christianity by T. Sheehan

Even though the details of my life and situation are different, I sure did relate to this lady’s story.

My eye brow did raise at one or two points of this essay, such as her claim that people at her church encouraged her to get an abortion when she became pregnant out of wedlock, and from the way she discusses her church, they sound pretty conservative and legalistic.

Perhaps she is telling the truth and that really did happen, it’s just that most conservative Christians are pro-life, not pro-choice, so I am having a hard time picturing any of them advising a pregnant woman to get an abortion.

With possibly a few wacko Protestant church exceptions, (Link): like this one, where the church’s preacher allegedly encouraged the women members to get abortions. But then, of course, there is information such as this: (Link): 2015 Poll: 70% of American Women Who Have Abortions Identify As Christian

By and large, though, most churches are pro-life, not pro-choice.

At one point in this essay, Sheehan says that although she and her male friend were not having sex, that due to being constantly suspected and accused of having sex by Christians at her church, is actually what in large measure drove her and her boyfriend to become sexually active with one another.

Major irony there. Or maybe not…

As I have said time and again at my blog, most Christians, just like secular culture, just blindly assumes that celibacy is impossible for anyone over the age of 25 or so, and that it is impossible for men and women to be platonic friends.

It is entirely possible for men and women to remain friends, and it is entirely possible for an adult to stay celibate for months or years at a time.

I have also explained before, in previous posts, that one reason there is so much fornication among Christian singles is precisely because most Christians have such low expectations: they expect that single adults will, or have, had sex outside of marriage. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy quite often.

The couple discussed in this post were expected, assumed to be, and suspected by their fellow congregants of sleeping together; this couple got tired of being falsely accused, so they figured, well, we might as well have sex, since everyone is already assuming we are and harassing us over it.

I also notice that one reason this woman’s husband, who was a Christian at one time, but is now an atheist or agnostic, began losing his faith over how miserably his grief (over the death of his father) was mishandled by Christians.

Oh yes, I relate: after my family member’s passing a few years ago, rather than receiving love, empathy, and encouragement from Christians in my family or churches I went to, I instead received judgment, criticism, platitudes, or indifference. This in turn is one of several things that caused me to partially leave the Christian faith.

One of a few things that caused Sheehan to leave the faith is over how one church she attended mishandled her abusive marriage – her priest told her to stay with the abusive husband.

This advice is also usually given in Baptist or Protestant situations. Christians often put keeping an (abusive) marriage before the welfare of the two persons who comprise the marriage.

Abused wives are usually instructed to stay with the abusive spouse and submit to the abuser more, or just pray about things. None of this resolves the situation but actually prolongs it.

I am not surprised in light of all the insensitive treatment that she and her husband endured at the hands of other believers, that they both developed major doubts about Christianity and walked away from it.

There were a few supportive comments to the woman who wrote this, in the comments area under the essay, but there were also a lot of hateful, judgmental, or naive posts left to her by Christians.

There were also a few annoying posts by atheists who were just there to say “all religion is idiotic, there is no God” to any of the well-meaning, yet naive Christians who were telling her to hold on to the faith, in spite of the Christians who had been mean to her at her prior churches.

Honestly, I wish those types of atheists would refrain from posting under articles like this one by Sheehan. I find their opportunistic, anti-theism drivel and rants to be about as bad as the nasty posts by the Christians who scolded Sheehan for leaving Christianity.

(Link): Leaving Christianity gave me the fairy-tale ending I always wanted 

• Divorce and pre-marital sex destroyed my relationship with Christianity by T. Sheehan

• My family has always been part of the Catholic Church, including being actively involved in fighting for those beliefs in Ireland and France through the centuries. It is all I knew and I never imagined a life without it. Even in today’s permissive society, divorce is still a huge don’t in the Catholic Church.

  When my priest advised me to stay in an abusive marriage rather than lose access to the Catholic religion, I stayed — until my husband left me for one of the many women he had been seeing.

  I went back to my priest for help but instead found myself without a church.

  Confused and directionless, I ended up seeking help at a Word of Faith Christian Church in Texas.

  Although the church and I both believed in Jesus, the similarities ended there. Everything was so different from what I had grown up with, it made the transition very difficult.

  They kept trying to break down my identity by using scripture to suggest that everything about me, from Catholicism to my Irish culture, was evil and against God. It was like going through spiritual boot camp as they attempted to rebuild me into a person that could gain access to heaven.

  During my time there, I met my current husband. He was also having a tough time as his father had died suddenly the year before, causing him to question the church he had been raised in and even the existence of God due to how they handled his grief.

  We became really good friends who spent hours talking as we each struggled with our sheltered worlds collapsing around us, no matter how hard we tried to fight to keep the walls intact.

  The damage in our lives, caused by blind devotion to a religion, forced us to question all the truths we had been raised to believe.

Preacher Stole Five Figures From Church To Pay off Young Mistress

Preacher Stole Five Figures From Church To Pay off Young Mistress

The article says he’s a married guy who was a preacher at a church.

So much for the Christian “be equally yoked” teaching, or the idea that married sex is so rewarding and fulfilling that married people won’t sexually stray.

(Link):  Missouri pastor stole more than $21,000 from church to pay hush money to young mistress: police by T. Gettys

• A Missouri pastor is accused of stealing more than $21,000 from his church to pay off his 20-year-old mistress.
• Ralph Sawyer was charged with a felony count of theft after prosecutors said he ripped off money from Lindsay Lane Missionary Baptist Church in Florissant, where he served as a pastor, (Link): reported KSDK-TV.
• Prosecutors said the church treasurer discovered money missing from the congregation’s savings account and launched an investigation — which revealed Sawyer had used his church-issued ATM card to make 35 withdrawals in June and July totaling $21,727.50.
• The 30-year-old Sawyer resigned Aug. 11 and turned himself in to police Sept. 1.

  Police said Sawyer admitted to beginning an extramarital affair with the woman in March, and he began paying her to keep quiet about the relationship after she began asking for money.

  Sawyer, who goes by “Drew,” remains held on a $25,000 cash-only bond.

———————————-

Related Posts:

(Link): Preacher Found Guilty of Murdering His Second Wife, Probably Killed The First One, He Had Affair With Vulnerable, Grieving Woman at His Church

(Link): Married Christian Preacher and Mistress Try to Kill Wife – Married Christians not more stable, mature, or godly than Singles

(Link): (Married) Pastor Busted in Prostitution Sting – If Married Sex So Great Why Do So Many Married Christian Men Have Affairs

(Link): Pastor charged in wife’s murder was headed to Europe to marry boyfriend, prosecutor says – Single Xtian Ladies: Kick that Be Equally Yoked Teaching to the Curb! Also: Marriage and Parenthood do not make people more godly or mature or loving or ethical

A Response To J D Hall’s Vomit-tastic Post about Village Church’s Handling of Certain Members, Covenants, and Marriages

A Response To J D Hall’s Vomit-tastic Post about Village Church’s Handling of Certain Members, Covenants, and Marriages 

Before we get to the post by J D Hall:

Background:

• The Village Church (TVC) of Texas has placed Karen, who was once a member of theirs, under church discipline because she did not, according to them, abide by the church covenant she signed.
• Instead of conferring with the church on what to do, Karen, on her own, sought an annulment from the state of Texas, once she discovered her then-spouse, Jordan, was a pedophile.
• Karen said she spent about 50 days conferring with other Christians (not from the TVC), and in prayer, mulling over what to do, before seeking the annulment.
• This action of hers has ticked off TVC leadership, because Karen did not get their permission to get the annulment.
• Matt Chandler is the lead preacher of TVC.

You can read additional reporting of this situation here (additional material is at the bottom of this post):

• (Link, off site): She Wanted an Annulment from a Pedophile. What Happened Next Ignited a Controversy

Here is the page I am responding to:

(Link, off site): A Rational Response to the Criticism of Village Church  by  J D Hall, Pulpit and Pen blog

The covenant that Hall is so rigorously defending – TVC’s membership covenant – here does not even mention annulments.

As Karen explains (off site Link, Source):

• …it is worth noting here that although The Village Church claims [in their e-mail] that “We see an annulment as a subcategory of what Scripture defines as a divorce in Mark 10:9” …, this cannot be found anywhere in their Membership Covenant or Bylaws.
• In signing their Membership Covenant shortly after my 24^th birthday, I had agreed to nothing in regards to the possibility of annulment should I come to realize that my marriage had been a complete sham from the beginning.
• There is a vast difference between a divorce and a marriage that is voided on the grounds of fraud, and I had no way of knowing that the leadership of The Village Church would respond to it in this fashion.

Maryland: Woman Charged For Contaminating Her Family’s Milk With Dead Skin Shavings From Her Feet – Happy Mother’s Day 2015

Maryland: Woman Charged For Contaminating Her Family’s Milk With Dead Skin Shavings From Her Feet  – Happy Mother’s Day 2015

I can’t say as though I plan on making Mother’s Day related posts every year. I just saw this and it fit – and I believe Mother’s Day is tomorrow.

You can see my previous posts on how terrible Mother’s Day is for people who are infertile, for women who never married, etc., and how churches wrongly hype motherhood year round only to make it worse on Mother’s Day.

Evangelical Christians like to teach that becoming a parent automatically confers godliness and maturity on to a person, but it does not.

Evangelical Christians, in addition to other types of conservative Christians, like to point to getting married and/or having children as markers of maturity, when the Bible itself does no such thing.

Jesus never married, never had children, but I doubt many Christians would consider Jesus an irresponsible, selfish, backwards, dolt, yet they do this constantly with the followers of Jesus who never marry, or who are childless or childfree.

Here’s yet another example of how motherhood or marriage does not make a person more honest, godly, loving, or mature (the woman in this story is a mother, I think, and I believe married, too. I could be wrong, though, as the story does not explain who “family” is… these could be her aunts or nephews – most of the time, culture and reporters equate the word “family” to mean “married person who has kids”):

(Link):  Woman ‘put dead skin shavings from her feet in her family’s milk’

(Link): Maryland: Woman Charged For Contaminating Her Family’s Milk With Dead Skin Shavings From Her Feet 

• Sarah P. Schrock, 56 of Mechanicsville, Maryland, was arrested on Wednesday. The charges against her are connected to an incident where she served her family milk that she contaminated with dead skin shavings from her feet.
• The Mechanicsville woman was jailed in lieu of 10 percent of a $10,000 bond related to food contamination, as well as second-degree assault on Allison Depriest and Jessica Whitney Hurry during an incident at her home located off of Golden Beach Road.
• According to the Southern Maryland Newspaper Online, Schrock was home alone until around dinner time when Hurry and Depriest arrived. Schrock served milk with dinner. Depriest began to choke and coughed up what appeared to be human skin.
• Court papers state that Hurry also gagged while drinking the milk. An unnamed witness found dead skin in the milk after pouring it into a strainer.