To Forgive Or Not To Forgive Your Abuser – The Unintended Fallout: Possible Emotional Abuse or Exploitation Of Your Codependent Friend or Family Member

To Forgive Or Not To Forgive Your Abuser – The Unintended Fallout: Possible Emotional Abuse or Exploitation Of Your Codependent Friend or Family Member

I was watching a video today by psychologist Dr. Ramani, who I like very much, and I agree with her most of the time.

I even agree with most of her comments in this particular recent video she made that I will be discussing in this post, but it brought to mind one over-looked aspect pertaining to volatile or abusive relationships.

In the video (link to that video here, and I will embed it below, the title is, “Is there virtue in forgiving a narcissist who doesn’t apologize?”), Dr. Ramani expressed that she pretty much disagrees with the concept that people should have to forgive others, or that forgiving others makes a person stronger, etc.

Dr. Ramani rightly points out in that video that continually forgiving pathologically narcissistic persons is a waste of your time, for various reasons I shall not explain here (you can watch her video for explanations). I do agree with her on that.

If someone in your life keeps hurting, abusing, or mistreating you, no matter how many times you’ve forgiven them and given them a second, third, etc, chance,
you need to accept the fact this person is more than likely NEVER going to change and that they merely view your willingness to always forgive him or her as a weakness to repeatedly exploit.
So cut that person from your life, or limit time around them.

It’s not that I disagree with Dr. Ramani’s comments in the video on the face of things, but, I am concerned for Codependents.

On a similar note, in years past, I’ve also read books or seen videos about how people can help their abused friends.

I’ve seen videos by women who divorced their abusive husbands who reel off a list of tips on how you, the friend, can be supportive towards the friend in the abusive marriage.

These videos, books, and online articles, contain lists of things to say or to avoid saying when trying to help someone who is currently in an abusive relationship or someone who was abused in childhood.

Many of these books, videos, and web pages (most by therapists, psychologists or recovered abusive victims) often stress that you, the friend, should just sit and listen to the friend – just validate the friend, do not give advice, judge, or criticize.

I am a recovered Codependent (I wrote a very, very long post about that here).

I am also an Introvert. Introverts naturally make better attentive listeners than Extroverts.

So, as someone who is an Introvert and a one-time Codependent, I was very adept at giving the sort of emotional support a lot of troubled people seek out and find comforting.

For over 35 years, due to the parenting of my mother and the guilt tripping-, sexist-, Codependent- pushing- teachings under “gender complementarianism” of the Southern Baptist church I was brought up in, I had no boundaries, I was not assertive, and it was implied it is my job or responsibility in life to rescue or help other people, whatever format that came in.

All of that was taught to me as I grew up under the false, gender complementarian assumption (and my mother and father bought into some of this thinking too) that God created women to be more caring than men, it would be un-feminine or selfish for a woman to have boundaries, and I was taught that it was women’s “duty” to be care-takers for the hurting.

For me, most often, the support and care-taking my Mom and church taught me to engage in came in the form of “Emotional Labor,” and it made my already bad mental health in years past even worse.

(I was diagnosed at a very young age with clinical depression, I also had anxiety disorders and had low self esteem for many years. I no longer have depression.)

If you are an abuse victim, or if you’ve been bullied at a job, or you were abused in a marriage, or you were sexually or physically abused as a child by a family member,
I know it can be helpful, now, as an adult, to sit and talk to an empathetic listener about it, it can feel so good for that listener to sit quietly while you do most of the talking, and for that person to validate you and your experiences.

It can be very healing and feel like a tremendous relief for that listener to refrain from victim blaming you, offering advice or platitudes.

It can help in the healing process for another adult to believe you and just offer non-judgmental emotional support as you relate your trauma and pain to them.

I realize all that.

But have you ever considered that the caring, non-judgmental, empathetic person you keep turning to, whether it’s a friend or a family member, might be highly codependent and your repeated use of that person as your emotional support system may be damaging to THAT PERSON?

Because I was that person, for over 35 years.

I was the sweet, caring, understanding, supportive listener that many people – co-workers on jobs, family, neighbors, friends –
would call, e-mail, snail mail, or text with their problems, because they KNEW I would always listen to them rant (for hours on end, if need be, over months and years), I would NEVER put time limits on their rants, and I would ALWAYS respond in a timely fashion to ranting or sad e-mails or texts.

I spent over 35 years giving a lot of non-qualified, no-strings-attached emotional support to a lot of emotionally wounded or abused people over my life.

Some of these people called or e-mailed me over job stress, health problems, troubled marriages, financial issues, or, they were single and were lonely – they couldn’t get a boyfriend (or girlfriend).

None of these people who called or texted me to complain or sob to me ever once considered how their regular, negative phone calls (or letters or face to face chats) was impacting me. For the ones who considered it, I suppose they didn’t care.

If you choose not to forgive your abuser, that is your choice to make, but…

Be aware that if you choose to not forgive but to also hold on to your hurt and anger, and to choose to ruminate on the abuse,
and should you choose to deal with and vent that anger and hurt by regularly calling your Codependent friend to listen to your rants or sobbing – you are abusing your Codependent friend or family member, which is not acceptable.

In all the years I granted emotional support to hurting people (including but not limited to co-workers who’d stop by my cubicle during work hours to bend my ear for an hour or more about their divorce or health problems), I was never once thanked.

The non-stop support I gave was never acknowledged. And giving that non-stop support was exhausting and taxing for me, as I know it can be for other Codependent persons.

A “thank you” once in awhile from these people who came to me to dump their problems on me would’ve been appreciated. I never got one.

Reciprocation would’ve been appreciated and helpful too, but the people who were abuse survivors, or assorted chronic complainers who used me to vent to, very rarely to never asked about ME and MY struggles in life.

Continue reading “To Forgive Or Not To Forgive Your Abuser – The Unintended Fallout: Possible Emotional Abuse or Exploitation Of Your Codependent Friend or Family Member”

There Are Five Types of Toxic Partners – Are You Dating One? by Ellen Scott

There Are Five Types of Toxic Partners – Are You Dating One? by Ellen Scott

Word of wisdom: although the following web page discusses dating, you need to be aware that these same exact dynamics can and do turn up in platonic friendships, co-workers at your job, or among your family members.

Take what you read below about dating and apply it to non-dating relationships as well.

(Link): There Are Five Types of Toxic Partners – Are You Dating One? by Ellen Scott

Excerpts:

April 9, 2022

…But we all know that crushing hard can make you not notice glaring red flags, let alone the more subtle signs that something isn’t quite right.

The early warning signs that a relationship could become unhealthy can be even harder to spot.

Cathy Press has been working as working as a psychotherapist and clinical supervisor for over 25 years, specialising in domestic and sexual violence and abuse related issues, so she knows her stuff when it comes to love turning sour.

 Her new book, When Love Bites: A Young Person’s Guide To Escaping Harmful, Toxic and Hurtful Relationships, aims to equip people with the knowledge they need to avoid abusive partners, and the tools they need to escape the pattern.

A key part of this is understanding the five toxic types of partner – and then avoiding those at all costs.

Continue reading “There Are Five Types of Toxic Partners – Are You Dating One? by Ellen Scott”

Not All Narcissists Are Grandiose – the ‘Vulnerable’ Type Can Be Just as Dangerous by Joanna Briscoe

Not All Narcissists Are Grandiose – the ‘Vulnerable’ Type Can Be Just as Dangerous by Joanna Briscoe

In my reading on narcissism, I’ve learned that some narcissists can also have depression or anxiety.

Psychologists and psychiatrists say that narcissists never realize they are narcissists on their own.

Narcissists will never go into therapy for Narcissism. They will never go into therapy to have a psychologist or therapist help them stop or lessen their narcissistic ways (ie, extreme entitlement, always demanding or expecting validation, going into rages at people, etc).

I have heard psychologists say that a lot of narcissists, by the time they get into maybe middle age, begin becoming depressed, or they began experiencing anxiety.

Why? Well, they begin noticing the unpleasant (for them – they don’t care about all the people who they have hurt) ramifications of their narcissism.

They have been divorced, say, six times by the age of 45, and they may be unable to snare a new mate. So, they get depressed and waddle into a therapist’s office for help. So, they visit a psychologist over their depression (which is an outcome of the consequences of their narcissism).

So… anyway… while not all depressed or anxious people are narcissists, some narcissists are capable of having depression or anxiety and being diagnosed with one or both.

(Link): Not all narcissists are grandiose – the ‘vulnerable’ type can be just as dangerous 

Excerpts:

by Joanna Briscoe
August 1, 2021

With covert narcissists, their focus on meeting their own needs is masked by more subtle manipulation and control techniques. They can come across as sweet and innocent, even shy and introverted, and can also seem very caring and helpful.

They can be the shoulder to cry on, but will use what you share with them against you further down the road, and ultimately, with the aim of manipulating you to feel indebted and grateful. Thus providing them with admiration and gratitude – narcissistic supply.”

So what other features distinguish these subtly appealing types with their silent weaponry?

While psychologists agree that the underlying pathology is the same, the different presentation can include other aspects – guilt-tripping, generosity as a means to control and feigning illness to gain sympathy.

As Davies says, the covert narcissist can be a “silent intruder and silent seducer.”

A sense of victimhood appears to be primary, in which the narcissist will persecute from the victim position, often denigrating themselves and thereby fishing for reassurance.

Continue reading “Not All Narcissists Are Grandiose – the ‘Vulnerable’ Type Can Be Just as Dangerous by Joanna Briscoe”