More Women Having First Baby Over Age 40 And Out Of Wedlock: 2018 Pew Study

More Women Having First Baby Over Age 40 And Out Of Wedlock: 2018 Pew Study

(Link):  Older, educated women are more likely to have babies now, report says

(Link): Modern Mothers Are Having More Children

…And not as many women are waiting for marriage to have those babies. By 2014, 55 percent of mothers ages 40 to 44 who’ve never said “I do” had at least one child. In 1994, it was about 31 percent.

Researchers noticed a trend across all races and ethnicities: Women as a whole have started delaying motherhood. This includes millennial moms — the report found the median age for first-time mothers is now 26, while back in 1994, it was 23.

Women are also putting off motherhood until after higher education.

Continue reading “More Women Having First Baby Over Age 40 And Out Of Wedlock: 2018 Pew Study”

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Man Sues ‘Luxury’ Dating Service After Shelling Out $71K Per Date

(Link): Man Sues ‘Luxury’ Dating Service After Shelling Out $71K Per Date

By Kathianne Boniello

Jan 21, 2018

A Manhattan man who hired a “luxury” dating service to help him find love instead found a money pit, a lawsuit claims.

The Washington, DC-based matchmaker Taylor Francois-Bodine says she helps the lovelorn “accelerate” their hunt for romance with her “luxury experience” and claims her clientele includes “senators, congress people, ambassadors, well-known sports figures, industry leaders, CEOs and Fortune 500 executives.”

Continue reading “Man Sues ‘Luxury’ Dating Service After Shelling Out $71K Per Date”

Dating Is A Cess Pool and Other Lessons I’m Learning by Joy Beth Smith

Dating Is A Cess Pool and Other Lessons I’m Learning by Joy Beth Smith

(Link): Dating Is A Cess Pool and Other Lessons I’m Learning by Joy Beth Smith

Jan 17, 2018

by Joy Beth Smith

There is nothing wrong with you!

Dear Single Ladies,

There is nothing wrong with you!

Every Wednesday leading up to that Holiday- Beginning- With- A- V- That- Shall- Not- Be- Named — inspirational, hilarious, and ridiculously-relatable Christian Post contributor Joy Beth Smith is offering a fresh perspective on flying solo, in a 5-part series, based on her upcoming book Party of One: Truth, Longing, and the Subtle Art of Singleness (available for pre-order now, and wherever books are sold on Feb. 6).
This week… Dating Is a Cesspool, and Other Lessons I’m Learning.


“The purpose of dating is marriage.” I remember sitting at a conference and hearing the youth pastor, with thickly gelled hair and fervor in his eyes, say this. Heads nodded along, offering up their own silent amens.

These affirmations only spurred him on:

“And I don’t understand why our young people are dating folks that they can’t see themselves marrying. If you know that you want to head to the altar, you don’t take a detour. You take the most direct route, and that means pursuing godly girls and godly guys who you can picture the rest of your life with.”

I was hanging onto every word he said.

After all, it sounds good, right? If there’s a shortcut, you take it. If the purpose of dating is marriage, you only date people you can see yourself marrying.

There’s a lot that makes sense here, but the practical application of this philosophy has left me (and other wonderful, beautiful women like me) painfully single for the last two decades.

Continue reading “Dating Is A Cess Pool and Other Lessons I’m Learning by Joy Beth Smith”

California Pastor Used Church to ‘Satisfy His Fetish’ For Explicit Photos – and His Wife Helped: Lawsuit

California Pastor Used Church to ‘Satisfy His Fetish’ For Explicit Photos – and His Wife Helped: Lawsuit

Here we go yet again. Conservatives, both Christian and secular, believe and promote untruths and falsehoods that marriage will make people more mature and empathetic and that marriage is so much better for society than people remaining single.

I have been a conservative going back to my teen years, and I heard all the pro-Family Values rhetoric all the time, rhetoric which generally includes bashing singleness or insulting single adults for being single.

Frequently, conservatives will blame liberals or feminism for “ruining” society and they will prescribe marriage and having children as “the cure”, but I sure as heck do not see traditional values, church, Christianity, The Nuclear Family, Family Values, or marriage or parenthood making society any better.

Married people are not more sexually pure than single adults. Many times, conservatives incorrectly assume that being married will cause a decrease in a person sexually sinning, and that all to most single adults are “horn dogs” who lack sexual self control.

Christians will sometimes teach that if you are a single adult who’d like to marry that you, the single, must meet some kind of spiritual standard or else God will not allow you to marry, that God will not “reward you with” a spouse.

Christians will teach singles that it is sinful to marry outside the Christian faith. They often based this on a verse or two that mentions being equally yoked, and the assumption seems to be that a Christian who marries a Non-Christian will “veer off course” and become a non-believer too or live a life of sin.

Here we have a news story of two Christians married to each other, one worked as a church pastor no less, but they are both a couple of perverts.

Being married did not keep this couple from sexually sinning. Being married did not make this couple more mature, responsible, godly, and God apparently did not mind rewarding both of these deviants with a spouse, because he permitted them to marry each other.

Lastly, I would rather marry an atheist who is not a pervert than be “equally yoked” to a self professing Christian man like the pastor in this story who sexually preyed on women congregants.

(Link): California Pastor Used Church to ‘Satisfy His Fetish’ For Explicit Photos – and His Wife Helped: Lawsuit

Jan 19, 2018

by Travis Gettys

A former parishioner sued a California church and its former pastors — who she accused of sexual assault, battery and harassment.

The woman, a mother of two in her 30s, sued former Church for Life pastors Robert Litzinger and Cindy Litzinger seeking compensatory and punitive damages, reported the (Link): Santa Maria Times.

Continue reading “California Pastor Used Church to ‘Satisfy His Fetish’ For Explicit Photos – and His Wife Helped: Lawsuit”

Christian Couple Kept Their 13 Children ‘Starving’ and Shackled in Chains Inside House of Horror, Police Say

Christian Couple Kept Their 13 Children ‘Starving’ and Shackled in Chains Inside House of Horror, Police Say

You can see once more how The Nuclear Family, Parenthood, and Marriage does not save society or make things safer for children.

I’m conservative, but a lot of other conservatives (both Christian and secular) will try to argue that society has fallen apart because of feminism or due to liberals and they further suggest that society  would not be such a cess pool only if every one would marry by the age of 25 and have ten kids apiece and become a Christian.

This couple being married, having kids, and reading the Bible, being into traditional gender roles and being Christian did not make them better people, nor did it make our culture a better place.

I’m sure there are probably some atheist parents out there who treat their kids better than this Christian couple treated their kids.

I fail to see how liberalism or secular feminism is to blame for this Christian couple shackling their kids to beds for years and refusing to feed them.

(Link):  Christian Couple Kept Their 13 Children ‘Starving’ and Shackled in Chains Inside House of Horror, Police Say

Jan 16, 2018

The home of a California couple known in their community as a good Christian family was revealed to be a house of horror Sunday morning when local police rescued their 13 children, some of whom were found “shackled to their beds with chains and padlocks in dark and foul-smelling surroundings.”

Continue reading “Christian Couple Kept Their 13 Children ‘Starving’ and Shackled in Chains Inside House of Horror, Police Say”

Youth Pastor Who Allegedly Sexually Abused Teen Girl From His Church Within Days Taught True Love Sexual Purity Class and Later Wrote a Book About Marriage and His Church Gave Him A Standing Ovation For Being a Sexual Abuser

Youth Pastor Who Allegedly Sexually Abused Teen Girl From His Church Within Days Taught True Love Sexual Purity Class and Later Wrote a Book About Marriage and His Church Gave Him A Standing Ovation For Being a Sexual Abuser

On top of all that, the church (or another one – I’m too lazy to re-read his work history, but do know that at least one church) found out about the abuse but later (re)hired the same guy, Andy Savage, to work for them anyway.

This deviant – that would be Savage – also has groupies who go about online (these are people at his church, or friends of his, or young ladies who used to be in his youth group), posting negative to hateful responses to any news coverage or blogs that have exposed him.

I wrote a post about such horrid and misled people a few years ago:

(Link):  Your Preacher Sucks – and People Have a Right To Say So And Explain Why 

It’s creepy, pathetic, and alarming to see so many people so mindlessly devoted to some pervert, all because he went to their church and has the title of “preacher.”

Your preacher is no more godly than a plumber, accountant, or hair dresser. There is nothing special about the job of pastor.

Savage’s church was (Link): censoring their Facebook group page, so that anyone commenting on this scandal had their comment deleted.

Summary of the Story

Savage was in his early or mid-20s at the time and was in a pastoral position (he was the teen girl’s youth pastor. This sort of thing is illegal in the state of Texas where this occurred (it’s considered clergy sex abuse), regardless if the sexual acts were consensual or not.)

However, I believe the laws were not in effect at the time of the abuse by Savage of the teenager (statue of limitations apply).

This page probably discusses more of the legal aspects:

(Link): Pastor Andy Savage Will Not Face Charges In 1998 Sexual Assault Case

Initially, the two preachers at the church, whom the teen girl informed of the ordeal, covered up for Savage.

Savage, according to reports, groomed the teen girl over a period of weeks or months, a girl who was around 17 at the time (late 1990s), and it culminated with him promising to drive her home from church one night, only for him to take a detour down a deserted road where he manipulated her into performing oral sex on him, and he molested her.

Continue reading “Youth Pastor Who Allegedly Sexually Abused Teen Girl From His Church Within Days Taught True Love Sexual Purity Class and Later Wrote a Book About Marriage and His Church Gave Him A Standing Ovation For Being a Sexual Abuser”

The Indian Woman Who Chose A Bull Over Marriage

(Link): The Indian Woman Who Chose A Bull Over Marriage

Excerpts:

January 2018

Selvarani Kanagarasu, a daily wage labourer from the south Indian state of Tamil Nadu, has shunned marriage so that she can take care of a prize-fighting bull. BBC Tamil’s Pramila Krishnan talks to her about her life.

Ms Kanagarasu, now 48, was only a teenager when she decided that she wanted to follow in the footsteps of her father and grandfather, who raised bulls that competed in the state’s traditional bull taming contests known as Jallikattu.

Continue reading “The Indian Woman Who Chose A Bull Over Marriage”

14 Better Ways to Break the Ice on Dating Apps – from Marie Claire

(Link): 14 Better Ways to Break the Ice on Dating Apps – from Marie Claire

Excerpts:

….As users fill in their bios, they’re directed to ask an icebreaker question [on some dating sites], which is featured front and center on the profile, underneath the photo.

Matches must answer it initiate a connection, but it’s an easy, pressure-free way to begin a convo (and decidedly more interesting than “hey, what’s up”). So to help put those good ol’ fashioned conversational skills to task, here’s a list of tension-melting opening lines you haven’t heard a million times.

1. Tell me your life story in five emojis.

This is a non-intimidating way for someone to tell you who they are and a chance for your match to show off their cleverness.

2. If it was your last day on earth, what would eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner?

Their answer gives you insight into their palate, as well as provides some potential dinner date ideas down the line.

Continue reading “14 Better Ways to Break the Ice on Dating Apps – from Marie Claire”

Hollywood Movies: Affirming that Friendship or Platonic Love is Just As Good As Marriage

Hollywood Movies: Affirming that Friendship or Platonic Love is Just As Good As Marriage

Certainly Hollywood – like Christianity – has been guilty for years of promoting marriage as being better than singleness, in that they often teach you are nothing and nobody until someone else loves you (romantically), and that you need someone else to “complete” you (and again, it has to be a romantic partner).

However, I’ve seen Hollywood knock out a handful of movies in the last decade that affirm singleness and friendship above marriage.

I mentioned one such movie in (Link): this post.

In the past two weeks, I’ve seen two movies on cable television that affirm friendship as being, just as important, if not more so, than marriage.

One of the movies was first released to theaters in 2015, the other in 2009. Both movies emphasize that marriage may not make your life better or happier.

Continue reading “Hollywood Movies: Affirming that Friendship or Platonic Love is Just As Good As Marriage”

Adults Who Rarely or Never Attend Church More Likely to Cheat on Their Spouse: Study

(Link): Adults Who Rarely or Never Attend Church More Likely to Cheat on Their Spouse: Study

By Anugrah Kumar , Christian Post Contributor | Jan 14, 2018 9:27 AM

Adults who didn’t grow up in intact families, and those who rarely or never attend religious services are more likely than others to have cheated on their spouse, according to a new study.

The study, (Link): “Who Cheats More? The Demographics of Infidelity in America,” found that the rate of infidelity among those who attend a worship service at least once a week or several times a month or a year is 14 percent, as oppose to 19 percent among those who attend a religious service once a year or less.

A person’s political identity and family background are also related to whether or not they cheat, said the study released last week by Wendy Wang, director of research at the Institute for Family Studies.

Continue reading “Adults Who Rarely or Never Attend Church More Likely to Cheat on Their Spouse: Study”

Transgender Sex Robots Are Coming to a Bedroom Near You

(Link): Transgender Sex Robots Are Coming to a Bedroom Near You

by Sean Keach,

January 2018

“Transgender” sex robots could be a new and exotic way to spice things up in your bedroom.

The Sun has learned that the Californian startup responsible for the female Harmony sex droid is now considering a trans version too.

Continue reading “Transgender Sex Robots Are Coming to a Bedroom Near You”

Woman Fed Up Of Dating Humans Says She Has Married A Ghost

(Link):  Woman Fed Up Of Dating Humans Says She Has Married A Ghost

…In some ways, the relationship between the 45-year-old and her husband Jack is fairly normal.

After all, they go on dates together, sometimes have arguments, and have a healthy sex life. The fact that Jack died almost 300 years ago barely affects their marriage at all.

 

Continue reading “Woman Fed Up Of Dating Humans Says She Has Married A Ghost”

Sex, Lies, and Micro-Cheating: Why Every Dating Trend is Fake News by M. Stadtmiller

(Link): Sex, Lies, and Micro-Cheating: Why Every Dating Trend is Fake News

Excerpts:

“What is microcheating and are you a little bit guilty of it?” the headline asks in (Link): Metro. “What is micro-cheating? It’s the newest infidelity trend to mess up your relationship,” (Link): Bustle tells us. “Micro-cheating: The small actions that some say is as bad as full betrayal,”(Link):  The Independent warns.

 As a writer who has made a living in the made-up “dating term” buzzword space for more than a decade, I don’t know if I can take it any longer. It’s lies, all of it.

None of this is real. It’s filler.

It’s a distraction from the headache of complicated issues involved in figuring out intensely personal and widely variant emotional boundaries with a significant other.

It’s bullshit. All of it.

Continue reading “Sex, Lies, and Micro-Cheating: Why Every Dating Trend is Fake News by M. Stadtmiller”

What Dating With Anxiety Taught Me About Love by K. Bishop

(Link):  What Dating With Anxiety Taught Me About Love

Excerpts:

by K Bishop

A new match notification or getting asked out by that hot-but-definitely-a-fuckboy guy you’ve exchanged a stream of witty messages with is not a reward

…Dating in the Tinder-age is particularly triggering for anyone struggling with their mental health. When the next better thing is a mere right swipe away rejection is expected, to be blocked out by seeking more matches, more dates, more distractions from the niggling sense of being not quite good enough.

Speaking to my dating-app-active friends confirms that this issue isn’t just for the perpetually anxious.

Continue reading “What Dating With Anxiety Taught Me About Love by K. Bishop”

Substitute teacher, 40, who had sex with teen boy student while her husband and children were upstairs is jailed again

Substitute teacher, 40, who had sex with teen boy student while her husband and children were upstairs is jailed again

As you can see, there’s nothing about marriage and parenthood that makes a person more mature, godly, loving, or ethical.

Christians and conservative think tanks often like to promote this garbage – that marriage and parenthood makes people better. Being married and having kids did not stop this 40 year old woman from having sexual involvement with multiple teen students.

(Link): Substitute teacher, 40, who had sex with teen boy student while her husband and children were upstairs is jailed again

Excerpts:

by M. Fish

A former Indiana substitute teacher, who admitted to having sex with a 17-year-old student at her home while her husband and children were upstairs, has been jailed again after she was accused of violating her probation for a second time.

Continue reading “Substitute teacher, 40, who had sex with teen boy student while her husband and children were upstairs is jailed again”

Married Preacher and Father of Four Uses Depression as Excuse or Diversion For Extra-Marital Affair He’s Having

Married Preacher and Father of Four Uses Depression as Excuse or Diversion For Extra-Marital Affair He’s Having

This married guy, Greg Locke, works as a preacher. He has four kids with one wife. This article says he started having an affair with another woman and since he was found out, he’s been saying he has anxiety and depression.

I’ve not been able to ascertain if he’s saying the mental health conditions caused him to have the affair on his wife, or if he’s bringing it up now as a diversion, to get people to focus on the depression rather than the affair.

I used to have anxiety and depression too, and I can assure any reader of this blog post, that anxiety and depression does not cause one to sexually sin.

Sexual sin is a choice a person makes, it’s not something that inevitably happens to someone with anxiety or depression. It’s a choice, not an outcome of having depression or anxiety.

Let this story serve as a reminder that God does not demand perfection of a person before he sends them a spouse, and that married people are not more mature, godly, or ethical than single adults, which Christians and secular conservative think tanks often insist.

Do I have to even mention “equally yoked” at this point in time? You’re better off marrying a Non-Christian guy who isn’t going to cheat on you and blame it on anxiety and depression than marry a self professing Christian guy who will do that.

These Christian idiot husbands make pagans, Wiccans, Hindus, and New Agers look like better spouse material all the time.

(Link): Pastor Greg Locke Reportedly Separates From Wife, Reveals He Struggles With Depression, Anxiety

by L. Blair

Jan 2018

Popular and outspoken internet preacher and lead pastor of Global Vision Bible Church in Tennessee Greg Locke has allegedly separated from his wife over mental illness and is reportedly courting another woman.

A (Link): Pulpit & Pen report said Locke, who shot to internet fame after he (Link): posted a video on Facebook on April 22, 2016, criticizing Target for its new policies on gender-neutral bathrooms, “literally put his wife, (Link): Melissa, on a bus and sent her away.”

The couple have four children, including two who were adopted.

Continue reading “Married Preacher and Father of Four Uses Depression as Excuse or Diversion For Extra-Marital Affair He’s Having”

One Group That Thinks Grown Men “Courting” Teen Girls Is Natural? Fundamentalist Home-Schoolers by R. Graham

One Group That Thinks Grown Men “Courting” Teen Girls Is Natural? Fundamentalist Home-Schoolers by R. Graham

I linked to an article very similar to the one below a few months ago (Link): here.

I’ve also blogged about Phil Robertson’s gross, sexist, and creepy idea before that girls should marry at age 15 (Link): here.

(Link):  One Group That Thinks Grown Men “Courting” Teen Girls Is Natural? Fundamentalist Home-Schoolers by R. Graham

[Some Christians object to the idea of adult men dating teen girls.]

….But there’s a group of Moore’s allies for whom the basic idea of an unmarried older man “courting” a teenage girl is not anathema at all—fundamentalist home-schoolers.

Duck Dynasty patriarch Phil Robertson, who (Link): endorsed Moore in the contested Republican primary and has spoken at his rallies, told an audience in 2009 that girls should marry when they’re (Link): “about 15 or 16.”

Moore has (Link): appeared several times on a radio show hosted by Kevin Swanson, an ultra-conservative Colorado pastor who  (Link): defended Robertson’s notion that girls should be marrying at 15 because it helps them avoid sexual sin.

I’ve never married, still a virgin at age 40+, and I have a sex drive: it’s simply not true that “getting married young”(or getting married at all) is necessary to prevent someone from dabbling in sexual sin.

Staying a virgin past one’s teen years is not (Link): an impossible, heroic feat.

Anyone can do it.

Most choose not to.

Being celibate is a choice and a self-discipline, and it’s not due to lacking a sex drive; it is not a godly, incredibly difficult feat only a few can pull off. Anyone can do this.

Is is somewhat difficult when you’re single and rather be married and having sex? Yes, it can be somewhat difficult at times, but not to the point where one loses control of one’s ability to refrain.

Also, getting married does not keep people from “burning with lust,” with all due respect to the New Testament’s apostole Paul:

A lot of people get married only to sexually sin by having sex with people not their spouse, by fondling children, viewing porn, hiring prostitutes etc., and so on – see my many examples of married couples engaging in sexual sin (Link): here (i.e., collection of news stories of married people arrested for hiring prostitutes, etc).

Excerpts from the article:

Moore has an even deeper relationship with Doug Phillips, a disgraced leader in the “Biblical patriarchy” movement. Phillips was president of Vision Forum, a Texas-based organization devoted to the (Link): “restoration of the Christian household.”

In Phillips’ world, men ought to be self-sufficient by the time they marry, but women live under their father’s authority until they marry.

Continue reading “One Group That Thinks Grown Men “Courting” Teen Girls Is Natural? Fundamentalist Home-Schoolers by R. Graham”

Stop Trying To Tell Straight People They Have To Date Transgenders by Jazz Shaw

Stop Trying To Tell Straight People They Have To Date Transgenders

Excerpts:

…(Link): The BBC reports that Willoughby became incensed when Ginuwine declared the decision as to whether or not one should date across the gender-bending aisle to be a “personal choice,” but stated that he personally wouldn’t do it.

The journalist became further upset when he sugested sharing a kiss with Ginuwine and was rebuffed. This, apparently, set off a debate across the pond as to whether or not Ginuwine (and presumably anyone else holding his common sense opinions) is a hateful, hatemongering, Hatey McHateface.

Continue reading “Stop Trying To Tell Straight People They Have To Date Transgenders by Jazz Shaw”

Your Boss Hired You to Perform A Job Not Flirt With Co-Workers – The ‘Me Too’ Backlash

Your Boss Hired You to Perform A Job Not Flirt With Co-Workers

About me: I am a right wing person who is not affiliated with any political party after leaving the Republican Party a few years ago.
I don’t call myself a “feminist” because many feminists tend to be liberal, and I am not liberal.
However, I do agree with feminists on some topics, not all.


In the weeks after women began sharing their workplace stories of sexual harassment on social media (starting around fall of 2017), using the “Me Too” hash tag, there began a steady stream of backlash, some of which includes push-back by both men, and unfortunately, a fragment of women, saying how so terrible the “Me Too” phenomenon is, all because now, some men may be too afraid to flirt with women at their jobs.

I for one do not want to be flirted with at any job I hold.

When I am in a workplace, I am there to perform work-related tasks. I am not there to get dates or humor single men who may be lonely.

My boss or the human resources department hired me to do work-related tasks.

Unless you were hired by a john to be a prostitute or to be a porn actor, you are not at your job to have sex, ask for dates, flirt with others, grope others, wink suggestively at them and make suggestive jokes.

You’re there to give status reports, Power Point presentations, and file memos, and to do other standard, day- to- day office- grind stuff.

If you’re a single man who wants a girlfriend, you need to use venues or media that is applicable to that very purpose, such as dating sites or nightclubs – a job is not a proper place to do that.

Get your friends to set you up on blind dates.

Try to strike up conversations with single women in the produce section at your local Kroger’s grocery store, or use the “Meet Up” site to meet others who have similar interests to yours.

Get a pet dog and go take it on walks at your local park; maybe a dog-loving, single woman will approach you to chat with you about the dog, and you can ask her on a date at that point.

But your workplace is NOT the appropriate venue by which to flirt or pick up women.

If you are a single man who does not like dating sites or nightclubs, that is not my problem.

If you ask a woman out on a date once (or flirt with her), and she either sends signals she does not want to date you, or else plainly communicates she is not interested, she indicates she is not receptive, you need to leave her alone at that stage. Stop flirting.

Stop winking, asking her out, and you should NOT be grabbing a woman co-worker by any part of her anatomy in the first place, nor should you be showing her porn photos, or whipping out your nude penis in front of her.

If you keep pursuing a woman, (and why do so many of you men do this – because you assume women find it cute, endearing, flattering, or sexy, or you actually believe in the false cliche “women love playing hard to get”?), that woman will come to view your attention as sexual harassment.

Continue reading “Your Boss Hired You to Perform A Job Not Flirt With Co-Workers – The ‘Me Too’ Backlash”

Male Sex Robots With Unstoppable Bionic Penises Are Coming This Year

Male Sex Robots With Unstoppable Bionic Penises Are Coming This Year by R. Waugh

(Link): Male Sex Robots With Unstoppable Bionic Penises Are Coming This Year

Excerpts:

January 8, 2018

…But don’t despair, ladies – RealDoll (maker of those alarming plastic sexbots for men) is making one for women too.

….Matt McMullen of RealDoll said that the company’s currently tweaking the sexbot’s voice and personality – and says that users will be able to choose any penis size that suits them.

‘We’re working on a male version of the robot AI,’ McMullen told the Daily Star. ‘We’ll eventually have a male and a female platform available.’

David Levy, author of Love and Sex With Robots, says, ‘I’m sure women will find robots equally appealing as men.