Revolting Attitudes Towards Abused Wives From a Southern Baptist Seminary Student – Southern Baptists Don’t Make Marriage Sound Appealing / Christian Singles: Dump the Equally Yoked Teaching

Revolting Attitudes Towards Abused Wives From a Southern Baptist Seminary Student – Southern Baptists Don’t Make Marriage Sound Appealing / Christian Singles: Dump the Equally Yoked Teaching

Please consider that if you found this blog post from someone else sharing it on Twitter or Facebook, that the person (especially if a Christian) may not necessarily agree with all my statements and opinions in this post! They might only agree with portions of this message.


Earlier today, Christian Janeway (whom I follow on Twitter) re-tweeted someone else’s post about this guy’s post on Facebook, and awhile after that, Amy Smith (WatchKeep on Twitter) also shared screen caps of this guy’s Facebook posts.

You can see the guy’s post here (mobile Facebook page): (Link): Wife Beating

Here is the link to the regular (non mobile) version: (Link): Wife Beating

This “wife beating” post is in a group called “Friends of Biblical Counseling.”

I have warned readers of my blog before to stay away from Biblical Counseling (sometimes called “Nouthetic Counseling”) in a previous post, when I was giving Christian singles reading this blog this message:

(Link):  Consider The Source: Christians Who Give Singles Dating Advice Also Regularly Coach Wives to Stay in Abusive Marriages

I think the screen name of guy who posted this is named ‘Corriell Savannah Brotherwood,’ and his Facebook bio says he studies theology at SBTS (The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary).

God help us all, or any abused woman this joker may counsel, should he become a pastor or counselor.

Wiki description of SBTS:

 The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, in Louisville, Kentucky, is the oldest of the six seminaries affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention.

This Brotherwood individual states in his post that he does not believe that a husband hitting his wife is sin, nor does he think the Bible permits an abused wife to divorce her husband.

Continue reading “Revolting Attitudes Towards Abused Wives From a Southern Baptist Seminary Student – Southern Baptists Don’t Make Marriage Sound Appealing / Christian Singles: Dump the Equally Yoked Teaching”

Taking the Opposite Position from Neo Calvinists Just Because It’s the Opposite of Neo Calvinists

Taking the Opposite Position from Neo Calvinists Just Because It’s the Opposite of Neo Calvinists

I touched on this in an earlier post or two, such as this one: (Link): No Man’s Land – Part 2 – On Post Evangelicals or Ex Christians or Liberal Christians Ignorantly Hopping Aboard Belief Sets They Once Rejected.

But this time, I wanted to discuss Neo Calvinism and spiritual abuse blogs and advocates in particular.

I do not support Neo Calvinism, or even old school Calvinism. I think Calvinism is a crock of crap.

Many of the NC’s (Neo Calvinists, aka YRRs), are arrogant, narrow minded jerks.

My problem with seeing NC guys, their churches, or their positions discussed and picked apart by some bloggers is that the anti NCs go into reactionary mode.

Their positions often time seem not so much well thought out in and of themselves, but that they will take a position opposite of that held by most NCs just because it’s the opposite of that held by NCs.

I do know a little bit about NCs and their theological beliefs, but not as much as their frequent critics.

According to their frequent critics, NCs believe in a literal six day creation, not an old age of the earth.

(As for me, I am NOT an NC, and I believe in a literal six day creation.)

My issue when I visit blogs or Twitter accounts by people who are vehemently anti NC is that they will, it appears to me, automatically take the opposite position on anything John Piper, The Gospel Coaltion, and other NC guys say just to be contrary.

Continue reading “Taking the Opposite Position from Neo Calvinists Just Because It’s the Opposite of Neo Calvinists”

Daddy Dearest: How Purity Culture Can Turn Fathers into Idols (Purity Ball Photos)

Daddy Dearest: How Purity Culture Can Turn Fathers into Idols
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One thing I’d also like to add that is damaging about these purity balls is that

1. The parents involved with these purity balls ASSUME their daughters will grow up and marry.

What if their daughters never marry?

2. Male virginity is not taught, stressed, or supported by these groups.

I’ve yet to hear of a “Male Purity Ball,” where sons are encouraged to “pledge their virginity” to dear old mom. Why the double standard? Why are women expected to be virgins, but not the men?

(Link): Daddy Dearest: How Purity Culture Can Turn Fathers into Idols

    Our pledges belong to the Heavenly Father, not our earthly ones.

by Gina Dalfonzo

When we see a man and a woman holding each other tenderly, wearing fancy clothes, we think wedding, marriage, romance. It’s simply instinctive. So when looking through a series of purity ball portraits—girls in white dresses, beside loving fathers—we’re seeing something very familiar, but in a very different context. This juxtaposition strikes as jarring at best, inappropriate at worst.

The blogosphere erupted with their reactions to (Link): Swedish photographer David Magnusson’s “Purity” series. “Thoroughly f—ing weird … striking and frankly terrifying,” opined Tom Hawking at Flavorwire.

Jessica Valenti at AlterNet called the pictures “beautiful [but] disturbing.” In message boards and Facebook groups and comment sections around the Internet, words like “creepy” and “strange” were thrown around. On the flip side, there were those who said you’d have to be “perverted” to think there was anything wrong with the pictures.

Continue reading “Daddy Dearest: How Purity Culture Can Turn Fathers into Idols (Purity Ball Photos)”

Preacher Believes Women Deserve Being Raped – especially if they’re wearing Yoga pants

Preacher Believes Women Deserve Being Raped – especially if they’re wearing Yoga pants

What a nutter and a slime ball.

I have to say though, that I’m not on board with the whole feminist “slut shaming” view – one of the reports below contextualizes crazy man Saxton’s views as being slut-shaming.

I don’t think women who have been sexually assaulted are sluts or that they “deserved” to be assaulted, but I do disagree with feminists who reject any notion of sexual boundaries concerning consensual sex (links at bottom of post address that).

If this Saxton guy gets raped by another man (or raped by a woman), can I chalk it up to him wearing jeans and t-shirts?

(Link): College Preacher Says Women ‘Deserve Rape’ for Wearing Yoga Pants (Video)

Excerpts

    “One street preacher said, ‘You know, if you dress like it, you act like it, different things like that, you’re asking for it.’ Therefore, you deserve rape. And his last three words I felt like were nice, and I decided to put them on a sign, and go to the event.”

“I believe there are certain qualities that may be worthy of rape,” claimed Saxton. “If a woman dresses proactively, gets blackout drunk, and is wearing really revealing clothing, then I would say that she is partially responsible for the rape.”

However, Saxton failed to cite any Bible verses to back up his bizarre claim that women should be raped because of their clothing.

According to The Huffington Post, Saxton also opposes feminism, Miley Cyrus, rock music, homosexuals, sex before marriage and Muslims.

(Link): Yoga pants will get you raped, Pastor tells women

    In a new video published on Monday, a pastor from Arizona, who is known for his rants against women and saying that women “deserve” rape, defended his position.

Continue reading “Preacher Believes Women Deserve Being Raped – especially if they’re wearing Yoga pants”

Kook Christian Groups / Individuals and Their Nutty Beliefs on Pro Creation and What Constitutes Being Unequally Yoked

Kook Christian Groups/Individuals and Their Nutty Beliefs on ProCreation and What Constitutes Being Unequally Yoked

Here is another post or two with more quotes by people who claim to be Christian but who teach the thoroughly un-biblical view that God’s kingdom is to be spread by married couples pro-creating (making babies).

The Bible in fact teaches that the kingdom is to be spread and enlarged by Christians- whether married, single, divorced, with children or childless – telling the un-saved about Jesus Christ, not by marrying and having children.

As to this first link. I tend to lump all these categories together myself – patriarchy, quiverfull, complementarianism – because to me, they are all just a bunch of men teaching that men should control females.

The author of this piece below might kind of disagree with me, because he (or she?) seems very keen on people following very specific definitions of each term.

I do not agree with some of the sharp criticisms of this piece. I for one don’t see the problem with someone proclaiming that “Christian patriarchy is two steps away from making women wear a burka.”

Because you know what? It is. Some of the rhetoric and reasoning is very similar in “Christian modesty ” teachings as it is in Islamic teaching on how they feel women should cover their bodies and faces.

I actually think that comment is pretty dang accurate, in that many of these groups do advocate “modesty” teaching, which frowns on Christian women showing so much as an ankle.

Both groups – Muslims and pro-modesty Christians – tell women that they should cover their bodies because men are incapable of controlling their sexual urges and that men get instantly turned on beyond their control at the site of an attractive female. So, responsibility is placed upon women in both schools of thought to “dress modestly.”

Regardless of those issues, note the quote below about how this person believes that Christian women should “out breed” their opponents:

From the page, (Link): WHAT “CHRISTIAN PATRIARCHY” IS NOT , by R.L. Stollar

      Quiverfull is, more or less, a specifically Christian form of natalism — the idea of employing procreation as a tool of sociopolitical dominion and categorizing birth control as rebellion against God.

Michael Pearl gave us a perfect embodiment of Quiverfull’s dominionist streak, when (Link): he recently stated,

“If you can’t out-vote them today, out-breed them for tomorrow.”

That is Quiverfull (albeit a distilled, intense version of it).

… Yes, there are many advocates of Christian Patriarchy who are Quiverfull.

And by all means, speak out against the dehumanizing and toxic idea that your children are your weapons, and a woman’s vagina is a weapons-building factory.

But remember these are distinct, especially considering there are many advocates of Christian Patriarchy who are not Quiverfull.

Take Doug Wilson, for example.

Doug Wilson is considered one of the pillars of Christian Patriarchy but believes birth control can be useful to ensure you’re actually taking care of your current children. That’s outright heresy to the Quiverfull crowd.

From this site:
(Link): Not On Your Side, Debi

Excerpts (emphasis added by me):

    …. Several of the Pearl children’s spouses were raised in Gothard’s ATI program. (I say “spouses”, but Michael Pearl made it clear years ago that his children do not need any such thing as marriage licenses. A ceremony and their parents’ blessing is apparently good enough.*)

… Besides being given to racist and homophobic remarks, the Pearls are somewhat obsessed with sex. It gives Michael [Pearl] hope to envision homeschoolers “outbreeding” progressives.

He counsels the wife of an angry man to “make love” to improve her husband’s mood.

Debi often suggests that being sexually available is a wife’s primary responsibility.

Michael even wrote a book on erotic pleasure for fundamentalist Christian couples.

I can’t remember where I saw it – if on one of the pages above, but some page I read earlier today referenced quotes by Debi Pearl about being “equally yoked.”

Perhaps these comments can be found on her and her husband’s site, No Greater Joy, I am not sure.

Someone on another site quoted Pearl as having said that if you are a Christian, and you marry another Christian in a state that permits homosexual marriage, that your marriage – yes YOUR marriage to another Christian – is “unequally yoked.”

The argument seems to be that if you, a Christian, marry an opposite gender to yourself Christian in a state that also has legalized homosexual marriage, that a marriage performed in such a state taints yours, or makes yours invalid.

To put it yet another way (according to the Pearls): your marriage to another Christian is “unequally yoked” all because your next door neighbors, Fred and Stan the homosexual couple, are legally married by the same state too.

Please let that sink in and roll around in your brain for several moments: two Christians, one a man, one a woman, married to each other in a state where homosexual marriage is legal are said by the Pearls to be “unequally yoked”.

I’ve thought on it for awhile and still cannot make sense of it. What nuts these people are.

I ventured on over to the Pearl NGJ (No Greater Joy) site and see they have a page for singles ((Link): NGJ: Singles), and with pages on advice on how to find a mate, LOL, no thanks, won’t take advice from crackpots like them. The Pearls advise in their books on parenting that parents should beat their infant children with pipes.

There is much more nuttiness by them, but I don’t want to make this a huge post about the Pearls and every crazy thing they’ve ever taught.

On the main page for NGJ Singles is this:

      PreparingToBeAHelpMeet.com
      Shalom (Pearl) Brand
    This is from the Preparing blog site. The girls are discussing Shalom’s article in the Sept/Oct 2012 NGJ magazine, “Where A

This page at NGJ Singles actually recommends that parents allow a brother to pick out husbands for their sisters:

(Link): NGJ site: Need a Spouse…ANYONE? By Debi Pearl

I’m in my 40s now and still not married.

My one brother is married to an atheist heroin addict. Yeah, I don’t think I’ll be going to my big brother for martial partner selection or input, thanks but no, Debi.

By the way, does it never occur to these Christian parents that their daughter may choose to stay single, a choice which God respects (see 1 Corinthians 7)?

Excerpt from Debi’s page:

    Scores of young men asked for Shalom [one of Debi’s daughters].

She was gentle, cute, hard-working, and always cheerful, in addition to being the most compliant girl you have ever met.

But before they ever made it to our door to talk to Daddy Mike, most of them were already discounted as possibilities. Gabe or Nathan had seen to that with their reports.

Big brothers were watching out for their sisters, especially the sweet one.

How skin crawling is that, for so many reasons.

I have said it before, and I will say it again, but some Christian views on gender roles – whether we are talking patriarchy, gender complementarianims, or using the term “biblical womanhood” – is nothing but CODEPENDENCY under religious terminology, and is, therefore, un-biblical.

Codependent women are sweet, gentle, shy, compliant, soft spoken – they have poor- to- no- boundaries. Codependents are afraid or reluctant to be assertive, say no to people, and express anger.

Note too, that these are the same exact characteristics that are held up by Christians as being marks of biblical womanhood, or desirable for a Christian man to look for in a Christian wife: sweet, shy, gentle, compliant, soft spoken, little- to- no- boundaries.

Further note in books by experts on spousal abuse the sorts of traits abusive men intentionally look for in a mate:
sweet, shy, gentle, compliant, soft spoken, little- to- no- boundaries.

Seeing a pattern yet?

Yeah, Debi Pearl is (and I find this sad and chilling) totally thrilled that her daughter is prime pickings for an abusive man.

More excerpts from the page (advice to older brothers with younger single sisters):

      Talk to your guy friends. Say something like this,
    “Hey, you looking for a bride? I got four sisters and would consider it a privilege for you to drop in and take your pick. My parents trust my judgment and I’m giving you high marks. Of course, my sisters are picky, and they have the last word, but I’ll throw in a good word for you with them, too.

Now, the oldest sister is kinda bossy, but she always gives in after a little persuasion. She’s the smartest. So if you think you would enjoy a little challenge but get a good mate for the extra effort…she’s your gal.

My next sister is not so cute, but she is the nicest of the bunch.

…So how about it…wanta check out the fam? I got four other guys coming Sunday for brunch, so you better hurry if you want the pick of the litter.”

That whole excerpt is so horrifying and sexist, I hardly know where to begin.

I would not want my brother approaching his male friends and blurting out, “So, you lookin’ for a bride?” My god, that would scare away every man on the planet.

Not that I object to friends and family setting me up with eligible guys my age, but what Pearl is suggesting sounds almost more like arranged marriage, where the woman is playing a very passive role.

Pearl also makes it sound like the brother is supposed to “market” the sister to men, as though she is not a human being, but a brand of shampoo, a car, or a tube of toothpaste.

She is kind of asking the brother to play the role of a pimp.

This remark: “My next sister is not so cute”

If your own mother is basically advising your brother to tell his pals you are ugly, that is pretty damn insensitive.

At any rate, here we see above yet more examples fringe, wacko groups, or persons, passing themselves off as Christian, but who are teaching some bizarre, un-biblical things about marriage, having children, and re-defining what “equally yoked” means (or has been traditionally understood by most Christians to mean).

It’s bad enough when Christians are telling Christian singles to only marry other Christian singles

    (there are not as many single adult Christian males as therer are females, so you are in effect asking single females to die alone and single)

but the Pearl family is basically telling Christian singles not to even marry another Christian single if they live in a state where homosexual marriage is permitted, as that would make their marriage “unequally yoked” (sorry I do not have a source for that, it is a quote someone pasted in at another blog without a link, I have no reason to believe he or she was lying about it).

I am really creeped out and appalled by these views of marrying, what constitutes being un-equally yoked, and pro-creation these groups are advocating. Their views are totally un-biblical. They have given themselves over to the worship of marriage, parenthood, and family.

Instead of worshipping the God of the Bible, they are worshipping their own peculiar ideas of culture, family, and marriage.

If Moses came down from the mountain today, he’d see most of the contemporary, American “Christian” people bowing down before a statue made of gold, of a figure of a man, woman, and child holding hands (a statue of “nuclear family”), with a “Focus on the Family” broadcast playing on a radio in the background, with a mountain of books with titles such as, “Ten Steps to a Great Marriage” and “How to Raise Godly Children.”
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Related posts:

(Link): If the Family Is Central, Christ Isn’t

(Link): Hetero Couple Forced to Divorce Because They Say Homosexuals Are Ruining Their Marriage

(Link): Conservatives and Christians Fretting About U.S. Population Decline – We Must “Out-breed” Opponents Christian Host Says

(Link): Christian Stereotypes About Female Sexuality : All Unmarried Women Are Supposedly Hyper Sexed Harlots – But All Married Ones are Supposedly Frigid or Totally Uninterested in Sex

(Link): Christian Patriarchy Group: God Demands You Marry and Have Babies to Defeat Paganism and Satan. Singles and the Childless Worthless (in this worldview).

(Link): Gender Complementarian Advice to Single Women Who Desire Marriage Will Keep Them Single Forever / Re: Choosing A Spiritual Leader

(Link): Family as “The” Backbone of Society? – It’s Not In The Bible

(Link): Decent Secular Relationship Advice: How to Pick Your Life Partner

(Link): Being Unequally Yoked – should Christians marry Non Christians or only marry Christians

(Link): Married Female Christian Blogger Whose Mate Hunting Criteria is Guaranteed to Keep Marriage Minded Single Christian Men Single Perpetually

(Link): On Christians Marrying Non Christians -and- Unrealistic, Too Rigid Spouse Selection Lists by Christians

(Link): Are Fundamentalists Aiming to Out-Breed Secular America?

(Link): Misapplication of Biblical Verses About Fertility (also mentions early marriage) – a paper by J. McKeown

(Link): Cultural Discrimination Against Childless and Childfree Women – and link to an editorial by a Childless Woman

(Link): The Irrelevancy To Single or Childless or Childfree Christian Women of Biblical Gender Complementarian Roles / Biblical Womanhood Teachings

(Link): Why Unmarried and Childless or Childfree – Single Christians Should Be Concerned about the Gender Role Controversy

(Link): Why all the articles about being Child Free? On Being Childfree or Childless – as a Conservative / Right Wing / Christian

(Link): Males and Females Raped at Christian College, College Doesn’t Care – Equally Yoked is a Joke

(Link): Pastor charged in wife’s murder was headed to Europe to marry boyfriend, prosecutor says – Single Xtian Ladies: Kick that Be Equally Yoked Teaching to the Curb! Also: Marriage and Parenthood do not make people more godly or mature or loving or ethical

(Link): Christian Single Women: Another Example of Why You Should Abandon the “Be Equally Yoked” Teaching: 21-Y-O Christianity Student, Children’s Minister Charged With Murdering Fiancée He Was to Wed in August; Made It Look Like Suicide

(Link): Study: Couples Without Children Have Happier Marriages / Study: Having Kids Ruins Your Life

(Link): Leader of Hyper Family Focused, Fertility Cult (Vision Forum Ministries) Steps Down After Admitting to Having an “Emotional Affair”

(Link): Bay-Bees – Have them, have lots of them and NOW, no matter what say some Christians

(Link): Motherhood Does Not Make Women More Godly or Mature (Mother Suffocates New Born and Shoves It In Toilet)

No Man’s Land – Between Agnosticism and Christianity / Also: It’s Emotional Not Intellectual (Part 1)

No Man’s Land – Between Agnosticism and Christianity / Also: It’s Emotional Not Intellectual (PART 1)

This will be a series of posts where my thoughts wander in and out and all over, and it rambles, but there is a point or two behind it.

Since I’ve been in a faith crisis the last couple of years, somewhere between being an agnostic and a Christian, I have noticed I don’t fit in anywhere. I reside in No Man’s Land.

(Even before then, when I was a total, committed Christian, and politically, I was, and am, right wing, I still didn’t fit in at most blogs and forums, including political ones, and including ones for right wingers!

I tend to be one of those personalities who annoys or angers everyone, even those on “my side” of an issue, except a small number of people, who are either on my side of a topic or not, who “get me” or who appreciate where I’m coming from – again, this is true for even the ones who disagree with me on whatever topic we are discussing.)

I am in this really weird place now, where I am critical of some aspects of conservative Christianity, and see where conservative Christians get some doctrines and other things wrong, but, too, I am not fully on board with militant atheism (I find the New Atheists to be arrogant, vile, hateful and rude), and I don’t even care for lukewarm atheism.

Nor am I in the camp of anything and all things liberal Christianity, except where I think they get the occasional point correct (such as their rejection of gender complementarianism).

Since drifting away from the Christian faith more the last few years, I more often began frequenting forums or blogs for and by atheists, ones by liberal Christians, ones by ex Christians, or by Christians who were abused by a former church who remain Christian but who dropped out of Church, or who now are on a crusade to expose abuse by preachers or the absurdity and harm of current evangelical gimmicks.

THE MILITANT ATHEISTS

A clarification: when I say I have been visiting atheist forums and blogs more often, I am very picky about which ones I regularly visit.

I do not like the frothing- at- the- mouth, extremely bitter, biased- against- Christians- type atheistic communities.

The bitter atheist groups sound like a bunch of irrational, hate-filled loons who reject Christianity for emotional reasons, but who lie to others and themselves and say, “Oh no, it’s purely intellectual.”

But their unrelenting, insane amount of hatred at any and all things God and Christian, is just a total turn-off to me, so I try to avoid such sites.

These angry, always-ranting atheists are really nothing more than Fundamentalist Atheists or Taliban Atheists. They are just as dogmatic about their atheism as Muslims are in their Wasabi Islam or Baptists are in their Neo Fundamentalism.

Really, those types of atheists are just as bad as the religious groups they claim they hate, but they don’t seem to spot that they are. It’s ironic – and it’s hard to stomach the day in, day out anger and hatred, so I try to avoid their sites.

HYPOCRITICAL CHRISTIANS VS NON HYPOCRITICAL CHRISTIANS

Also, you have to be honest with yourself, which I do not find militant atheists to be, by and large: not every single Christian is a hypocrite, jerk, idiot, dullard, or complete jackhole.

I say this as someone who is very fed up with Christianity and Christian persons myself these days.

But your average militant atheist will never admit that some Christians are in fact okay and not being hypocrites.

I have known and met a few Christians who were sincerely trying to live the Christian faith out, such as my mother, who is now deceased, and her mother before her (my grandmother).

I’ve met a few honest, sincere Christians online who do help people and show compassion to the wounded.

So it’s not fair to completely dismiss the entirety of Christians and their faith or treat them all like jerks because some are liars, mean, or abusive.

Which is not easy for me personally, because at the same time, I do keep noticing that a lot of self-professing believers do NOT live out what the Bible says.

Many self professing Christians today, for example, do not protect victims, such as young church members who have been sexually molested by preachers.

Nor do many church goers today hold accountable preachers who bilk their church goers out of millions to buy big mansions and jets.

These idiots, these lemmings, actually defend their greedy pastors online, which I’ve written about here: (Link): Your Preacher Sucks – and People Have a Right To Say So And Explain Why.

Then you have a conservative or evangelical culture, which claims to care deeply that people preserve sex until marriage, but if you actually find yourself 40 years of age and still single – and therefore still a virgin, such as myself – these same churches and Christians do not offer you any support.

You either go ignored, or preachers and talking heads of such groups “run down” and insult celibacy as well as older, celibate adults. Churches treat single (and especially celibate) adults as though they are flawed, lepers, weirdos, or losers.

Churches wrongly counsel abused wives to return to their spouses – this is particularly true, again, of churches or Christian groups who buy into “biblical womanhood” (aka “gender complementariansm”) or “patriarchy.”

Churches and average Christians also remain ignorant or callous about matters pertaining to mental health issues, from P.T.S.D. to depression and anxiety attacks.

Some Christians wrongly and insensitively teach that “real Christians” can never get depression or other mental health maladies.

Or, some Christians believe and teach that prayer, faith, service to the poor, or Bible reading alone can cure one of mental illness.

Still other Christians (or the same type) will shame and guilt suffering Christians for using anti-depressant medications, or for seeing secular or Christian psychiatrists and therapists (see this link for more, “Over 50 Percent of Christians Believe Prayer, Bible Reading Alone Can Cure Mental Illness (article) – In Other Words Half of Christians are Ignorant Idiots Regarding Mental Illness”).

Yet other Christians are incompetent at, or unwilling, to provide more ordinary, “every day,” run- of- the- mill comfort to other Christians who are hurting, such as a Christian who is stressed out over a job loss, someone who is in mourning for a deceased loved one, etc.

Christians are dropping the ball in numerous ways.

And this failure, this huge failure, causes life long Christians like me to look long and hard at the faith and wonder if it’s true at all.

It causes even someone such as myself to ask if the faith is true, because

  • it doesn’t appear to be working,
  • it doesn’t make a difference in people’s life who profess it,
  • most who claim to follow Christ don’t actually do what he taught,
  • and some Christians refuse to hold Christians caught in bald faced sin accountable but excuse them for the sin,

~ and it makes you wonder “what is the point, then.”

I find this discrepancy between confessed belief and actual practice shocking, because I myself sincerely tried living out the faith since childhood.

Also, my Christian mother was a role model for me, and she genuinely, consistently lived out and by biblical teachings, including getting up off her ass and actually HELPING people (giving them money if they were in a bind, cleaning their homes for them when they were sick, listening to them cry and rant about their problems for hours without judging them or interrupting them, etc).

I am not seeing most other Christians do any of this. They say they believe in those things but then they do not do them.

BLOGS AND FORUMS FOR SPIRITUALLY ABUSED OR THOSE HURT BY CHURCHES

Before I actually get into this topic (which I discuss more in Posts 2 and 3), here is some background leading up to it.

As far as the sites I have visited by liberal Christians, ex Christians, atheists, as well as sites by Christians for the spiritually abused:

By and large, these have been wonderful, supportive sites and groups to visit (the ones run by Christians for hurting Christians).

I have noticed, though, that there are problems even within these types of communities, and I don’t entirely fit in at them, either.

Continue reading “No Man’s Land – Between Agnosticism and Christianity / Also: It’s Emotional Not Intellectual (Part 1)”

Gender Complementarian Christians Who Teach Gender Inequality Even in Afterlife – an UPDATE

Gender Complementarian Christians Who Teach Gender Inequality Even in Afterlife – an UPDATE

Hat tip again to Julie Anne of the Spiritual Sounding Board who announced in a Tweet today that CBMW (which is a Christian gender complementarian group) removed a looney editorial by Walton from their site, which I wrote of in an earlier post, here:

(Link): Christian Gender Complementarian Group Teaching That There Will Be Marriage in Afterlife and That Women Must Submit To Males in Heaven

Julie Anne wrote an update about the situation recently, here (at Spiritual Sounding Board):

(Link): Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood Removes Article about Complementarian Roles in New Creation Did they change their minds?

    Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood removes Article about complementarian roles in new creation

    … Let’s be clear – – pulling the article does not mean CBMW has changed their ideology.

She also provided a link to the screen shot of the CBMW page, before it was removed, and it can be viewed here:
(Link): Screen capture of Weirdo “marriage in the afterlife” CBMW Page by Walton

Someone in the thread linked to this related material, from the Strange Figures blog:
(Link): A letter to our sisters, on biblical womanhood in heavenly places

The piece starts out serious (as you can see from the excerpt below), and the author goes into satire (not excerpted here):

    I think the author, Mark David Walton, has shown us the end toward which complementarian theology is heading. While Walton’s piece is several years old, it’s still out there as a resource and other articles have expressed the same idea – the gendered headship/submission model is not temporal. It’s eternal. Get used to it, ladies.

Julie Anne also mentioned that Owen Strachan is the Executive Director of CBMW, and Rachel Held Evans recently took Strachan to the woodshed here:

(Though I do have excerpts from Walton’s the page on (Link): my previous post as well, if you’d like to read for yourself some of the nutty things Walton wrote.)
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Related posts, off site:

(Link): Complementarianism: even in its best form, it is Patriarchy

(Link): The “CAN’T” Chant of Complementarianism

(Link): Com­ple­men­tar­i­an­ism Sucks : Telling Women to Stay Quiet in the name of Jesus

(Link): Question to complementarians: What is my [single, adult woman] gender role?

I agree with point 3 on the list on this site (I do not, however, agree with the author that a literal understanding of the Bible should be rejected, or that the Bible supports homosexuality):
(Link): Reality: The Problem with Complementarianism
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Related posts:

(Link): Christian Gender Complementarian Group Teaching That There Will Be Marriage in Afterlife and That Women Must Submit To Males in Heaven (post at Spiritual Sounding Board)

(Link): The Irrelevancy To Single or Childless or Childfree Christian Women of Biblical Gender Complementarian Roles / Biblical Womanhood Teachings

(Link): Independent Fundamentalist Baptist College Kid Friendship Permission Form – Christians lowering marriage rates due to their own stupid teachings about sex, dating, marriage, etc

(Link): Christian Gender Complementarian Group (CBMW) Anti Virginity and Anti Sexual Purity Stance (At Least Watered Down) – and their Anti Homosexual Marriage Position

Christian Patriarchy Group: God Demands You Marry and Have Babies to Defeat Paganism and Satan. Singles and the Childless Worthless (in this worldview).

Christian Patriarchy Group: God Demands You Marry and Have Babies to Defeat Paganism and Satan. Singles and the Childless Worthless.

Though it is primarily a blog about spiritual abuse, the following blog occasionally covers the very troubling, odd views some self professing Christian groups have about marriage, dating, and having children:
(Link): Spiritual Sounding Board

I usually devote my attention to marriage and child worship by evangelicals, Baptists and one or two other main stream groups, but there are other Christian groups who are actually far, far worse.

These groups include Reconstuctionists, Quiverfull, some homeschooling groups, and Dominionists. Some of these “Christian” groups want the USA to revert back to using Old Testament Laws. They place far more emphasis on having children and being married than even the average Baptist, Reformed, or evangelicals do.

These fringe groups, somewhat like Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, have a lot of weird, unbiblical ideas about inter-gender relations; they seem to frown upon men and women merely spending time alone together, even if it is just in friendship, to chat.

They assume any and all male-female interaction will always end in sex. When the genders are taught this way and are not encouraged to spend time with each other (one on one) it can and does stunt a person’s growth, and leaves them unsure how to approach or deal with the opposite gender… which in turn means, such people lack the courage or skills necessary to date, which also means they cannot marry, or it will be a long, long time before they do..

I realize that some of these groups don’t even permit dating and are into courtship, but the courtship model pushes kids who are not right for each other into marriage far too young. And it too causes them to have all sorts of strange ideas about the genders and how men and women ought to relate.

Here’s one post about it from the Spiritual Sounding Board blog.

(Link): Doug Phillips & Vision Forum: Multi-Generational Faithfulness and Video of Young Boy Explaining the Importance of Having Many Children for 10 Generations

Here are excerpts (please click the link above to visit the page):

    Over at Bluebehemoth.com, one of Vision Forum’s websites, I found an audio series available called: The 200 Year Plan: A Practicum on Multi-Generational Faithfulness. I have discovered a certain lingo that is popping out while reading a lot of Vision Forum material…

    The speakers in the audio are Doug Phillips and Geoff Botkin. Here is the introduction to the series:

    [— start quote from patriarchy group —]

    Our age is defined by warfare against the Christian family, and one of the casualties experienced by many families is the death of multi-generational victory. Psalm 128 teaches that it is the hope of the righteous man to see the generations that come after him persevere in Christ

    Only God’s grace can produce such a blessed result, but the Bible teaches that parents can make strategic choices which either impede or bless generational faithfulness.

    …. In the battle between pagan culture and the Christian family culture, paganism often wins.

    …We believe more is needed. Our message is this: To achieve victory, first you must seek it. In the battle for the family, this means making God-honoring and strategic choices …

[— end quote from patriarchy group —]

If you click the link above and read the entire post, you will see the word “family” (as in nuclear family, NOT the spiritual family of God) mentioned over and over. These people have made an idol out of the traditional family.

Continue reading “Christian Patriarchy Group: God Demands You Marry and Have Babies to Defeat Paganism and Satan. Singles and the Childless Worthless (in this worldview).”

Focus on Family spokesperson, Stanton, actually says reason people should marry is for ‘church growth’

Focus on Family spokesperson, Stanton, actually says reason people should marry is for ‘church growth’

Around the 17 or 18 minute mark of the Mefferd show (see link below), Stanton talks about how married people are more likely to attend church.

That is because churches fixate on married couples and marriage itself, which excludes, hurts, angers, and offends plenty of single adults past the age of 30, so we stop attending church.

Stanton seems to assume that going to church is what leads to an increase in marriage, or causes people to marry in the first place, but it has the reverse effect: church services make singles stop attending, who then have to resort to using e-Harmony to meet dates (when they should be able to meet mates at church).

If churches want to increase their numbers, they need to attract and keep never-married, widowed, and divorced adults over age 30, which means, churches need to stop being so obsessed with marriage and need to offer more sermons and services geared towards single adults.

Stanton then actually tells the host, Mefferd, that to increase church growth/ attendance, that Christians should encourage young people to marry and settle down as a “church growth strategy.”

The Bible alludes to the purpose of marriage being to get one’s sexual needs met as well as for companionship, but I cannot recall any passages that talk about God wanting people to get married to increase the members of local churches.

(The link to the show is below so you can hear it for yourself, his comment is around the 17 or 18 minute mark).

Where does the Bible teach that church growth should come from telling young people to get married? It does not.

The Bible actually says you are supposed to grow the church by telling Non Christians about the Gospel.

‘Church growth by marriage’ sounds like rank heresy to me, it’s at least NOT biblical teaching.

(Link): Janet Mefferd Show-9/23/2013 / Janet talks with Glenn Stanton from Focus on the Family

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Related posts this blog

(Link): Good Grief! Five Million Dollar Family Idoltary on Display: Focus on the Family Launches $5 Million Project Targeting Family Breakdown, Social Ills – Please, when you say you support marriage, be honest about what you REALLY mean

(Link): Religion Runs in the Family (article – kid obsession more evidence of Christian Family Idolatry)

(Link): Focusing on the Family Causes Church Decline

(Link): Focus on the Family advice columnist perpetuates stereotypes about single women

(Link): Family as “The” Backbone of Society? – It’s Not In The Bible

(Link): Conservatives and Christians Fretting About U.S. Population Decline – We Must “Out-breed” Opponents Christian Host Says

(Link): Are Fundamentalists Aiming to Out-Breed Secular America?

(Link): Misapplication of Biblical Verses About Fertility (also mentions early marriage) – a paper by J. McKeown

(Link): Why all the articles about being Child Free? On Being Childfree or Childless – as a Conservative / Right Wing / Christian

(Link): Cultural Discrimination Against Childless and Childfree Women – and link to an editorial by a Childless Woman

(Link): Bay-Bees – Have them, have lots of them and NOW, no matter what say some Christians

(Link): Focus on the Family having financial problems – aw, too bad (not!)

(Link): Christians and Churches Discriminate Against Unmarried People / Singles

(Link): Never Married Christians Over Age 35 who are childless Are More Ignored Than Divorced or Infertile People or Single Parents

(Link): If the Family Is Central, Christ Isn’t

(Link): Salvation By Marriage Alone – The Over Emphasis Upon Marriage by Conservative Christians Evangelicals Southern Baptists

Muslims Use Sex Jihadis – similar strategy and view to Christian American conservatives particularly fertility cults such as Quiverfull and Reconstructionists

Muslims Use Sex Jihadis – similar strategy and view to Christian American conservatives particularly fertility cults such as Quiverfull and Reconstructionists

As I have blogged about before, the weird view by fringe groups that Christians need to have more children than their opponents (Non Christians), for them to beat their opponents and turn America into a “godly” nation.

It looks like some Muslims have similar ideas.

Actually, I know they do. One of their techniques is to take over a nation in a stealthy manner by out reproducing the natives, so that later, they can overthrow that nation.

Never mind that Jesus Christ teaches that Christians are to put the spiritual family ahead of their family of origin, spouse, and children, but Christians are taught to trust God in the Bible, not work to change a situation, not like this.

Notice in the following news story that it involves a Muslim MARRIED couple – the husband supports his wife going to another nation and having sex with some other Muslim guy (for the purpose of her getting pregnant, to add another Muslim to their army of believers). Sick.

Here’s a news story that brings the Muslim idea about using baby making as a weapon into the open (there are more comments by me below this excerpt):

(Link): Tunisia’s ‘sex jihadis’ who were sent to Syria to have sex with 100 rebels EACH are coming home pregnant with their children

    Tunisian government minister reveals women who travelled to Syria to comfort Islamist opposition fighters in sexual jihad are returning pregnant

    Lotfi ben Jeddou said women return home after ‘having sexual relations with 20,30,100’ front-line fighters

    Minister insisted border security has been tightened to restrict young people from travelling to war-torn country

    Earlier this year a group of girls reportedly went to rebel-held Northern Syria to offer themselves in ‘sexual jihad’

    Religious orders or ‘fatwas’ were reportedly circulated online calling on women to take part

    By MARTIN JAY IN BEIRUT and JENNIFER SMITH
    PUBLISHED: 13:34 EST, 20 September 2013

    Tunisian women who have travelled to Syria to offer themselves to Islamist fighters are returning home pregnant with rebels’ children, it has been revealed.

    A Tunisian government minister told members of parliament this week the women, who are waging ‘sexual jihad’, are ‘having sexual relations with 20,30,100’ men before returning to Tunisia pregnant.

    Interior Minister Lotfi ben Jeddou made the revelations at the National Constituent Assembly on Thursday, though didn’t elaborate on the number of women who have returned in this condition.

    ‘After the sexual liaisons they have there in the name of ‘jihad al-nikah’ — (sexual holy war, in Arabic) — they come home pregnant,’ he said.

    Jihad al-nikah, permitting extramarital sexual relations with multiple partners, is considered by some hardline Sunni Muslim Salafists as a legitimate form of holy war.

    The minister also did not say how many Tunisian women were thought to have gone to Syria for such a purpose, although media reports have said hundreds have done so, France 24 revealed.
    However, Ben Jeddou also said that since he assumed office in March, ‘six thousand of our young people have been prevented from going’ to the country.

    … Their action came after growing in concern in Tunisia about religious orders or ‘fatwas’ that circulated the internet calling on Muslim women to perform jihad through sex.

    … Noureddine al-Khadimi rejected ‘sexual jihad’ fatwas, urging Tunisian people and state institutions to not respond to them.
    Tunisian newspapers reported that a young Tunisian man divorced his wife, and that they both headed to Syria almost a month ago to ‘allow her to engage in sexual jihad with the mujahideen’ there.

This creepy, warped idea about taking over the world by making more bay-bees than one’s opponents is not biblical, but some people who claim to be Christian have bought into this. I’ve blogged about it before:

(Link): Are Fundamentalists Aiming to Out-Breed Secular America?

(Link): Conservatives and Christians Fretting About U.S. Population Decline – We Must “Out-breed” Opponents Christian Host Says

If you claim to be a Christian but your brand of Christianity or aspects of it, mirror Islam in anyway, clue-ville: you’re not a Christian or your beliefs are not Christian.
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Related posts on blog:

(Link): Misapplication of Biblical Verses About Fertility (also mentions early marriage) – a paper by J. McKeown

(Link): Bay-Bees – Have Lots of Them (Addendum)

(Link): Bay-Bees – Have them, have lots of them and NOW, no matter what say some Christians

(Link): Tell the Baby-Obsessed To Back Off (Letter)

(Link): Why all the articles about being Child Free? On Being Childfree or Childless – as a Conservative / Right Wing / Christian

(Link): I’m Childless, Not Child-Incompetent (editorial by G. Dalfonzo) – The Christian Tendency to Worship Family, Motherhood, and Children

(Link): Cultural Discrimination Against Childless and Childfree Women – and link to an editorial by a Childless Woman

(Link): The Child Free City

(Link): Childfree Christians / Childfree childless

(Link): Do You Rate Your Family Too High? (Christians Who Idolize the Family) (article)

(Link): The Decline in Male Fertility (article)

(Link): Salvation By Marriage Alone – The Over Emphasis Upon Marriage (and “family”) by Conservative Christians Evangelicals Southern Baptists

(Link): Family as “The” Backbone of Society? – It’s Not In The Bible

(Link): A Critique of the Family-Integrated Church Movement by Brian Borgman – Christians turning the family into an idol

(Link): If the Family Is Central, Christ Isn’t

(Link): Refreshing: Christian Researcher Disputes that Youths Are Leaving Churches in Droves, Disagrees that Churches Should Be Family Focused

(Link): Fatherhood Not Quite the Producer of Manly, Mature, Godly Men Some Conservative Christians Make It Out To Be

So, he has the problem of evil all figured out?

So, he has the problem of evil all figured out?

Actor Kirk Cameron has said on Christian television shows that up until his late teens or 20s that he was an atheist, but he then became a Christian.

He hosts a weekly Christian show with Ray Comfort, Christian evangelist and apologist (who is detested by atheists).

I’m in an odd place on Cameron.

I have seen atheists rip on the guy in what is, in my opinion, an irrational and unfair way, so I’m not fine with that.

On the other hand, Cameron sort of reminds me of me when I was a gung-ho Christian and was deeply into Christian apologetics and would pump my fist in the air over every Christian Republican denouncement about the trashiness of society and the evilness of liberals.

I used to be right there with him. Now I find most of this stuff deeply annoying.

While I still disagree with liberalism and am not a fan of trash and vulgarity in popular culture, my attitudes about how one should react to either have changed.

I no longer think it’s good enough to get angry and worked up about certain topics (e.g., liberalism, abortion, homosexuality), listen to Rush and Hannity every day, and to post diatribes on Facebook all day (not that I ever did that, but I have Christian Republican or conservative friends who do, along with a few atheistic, liberal friends who post anti-Republican, anti-Christian crud all day).

I’m not even saying Christians should remain totally silent on topics that are near and dear to them.

God knows it pisses me off when liberals, homosexual militants, and other such groups harass or law suit the hell out of conservatives and Christians into silence, or when they intimidate them into silence. Liberals and homosexual militant groups that claim to be so “tolerant” – and they often claim they are so very tolerant – are some of the most intolerant people on the face of the planet.

Conservatives and Christians have every bit as much right to opine on topics, as do atheists and liberals.

I’m questioning the wisdom of it, though, and the wasted energy.

Instead of bitching about homosexuals wanting to get married, for example, why don’t Christians spend more time helping people around them (and I mean the people literally around them, not special little project groups, such as starving orphans in Africa)?

Anyway, Kirk Cameron is one of those “on fire for Jesus” types that gets worked up over the erosion of America’s morality, he’s big into stressing the Judeo-Christian foundations of the USA, and so on.

Cameron recently produced some kind of movie or something where he claims to discuss “why God allows evil.”

I have not yet watched any of the videos for this, or what he gets into, what specifics.

I can’t wait to see this guy in another ten or twenty years. He’s around my age right now. I’ve been a Christian since pre-age-ten, he only become one around his twenties?

And I was a serious Christian from the get-go. I’m now suffering burn out and have serious doubts about the faith and it’s usefulness. Most Christians don’t reflect the teachings of Christ.

Most people who claim Christ do not have lives that show a difference or any change. So I don’t see the point in being a Christian.

What I’m trying to say is that for the first 20 years you’re a Christian, it’s easy to be excited about it, but after 20 – 25 years, you start seeing that the promises of the Bible do not hold up. You start noticing that all the years you spent helping people, praying for stuff, etc, is all to no effect.

It will be interesting to see if Cameron is as fired up about Jesus in 10, 20 years as he has been the last five or so. My guess is probably not. And that will be amusing for me to watch.

Anyway, his new film which purports to explain why God allows evil bothers me.

This is a topic that was not even addressed fully in the book of Job, and that was the main theme of that book, for pete’s sake. God’s response to Job, who wanted to know why God allowed evil in his life was (paraphrasing my understanding of the text here), “You’re not going to ever know in this life time. I’m God, you know nothing, shut up, and just accept it all.”

(please click the “continue reading” link to read the rest of this post)

Continue reading “So, he has the problem of evil all figured out?”

Catholic Group Warns College Is Not For Women: ‘She Will Not Learn To Be a Wife And Mother’ (article)

Catholic Group Warns College Is Not For Women: ‘She Will Not Learn To Be a Wife And Mother’

As much as I take Baptists, conservative evangelicals, Fundamentalists, and Protestants to task for ignoring singles and worshipping the nuclear family, it looks like the Roman Catholic Church is just as sexist and backwards.

Apparently, Roman Catholics have their own idiotic family-centric marketing or concern group, akin to that of the Protestant “Focus on the Family,” and theirs is called “Fix the Family.” 🙄
(Links to news stories about this group, or to their blog itself, appear father below on this page)

If we go by Fix the Family’s definition of “family,” which I would assume is the nauseating, narrow one of a guy and woman married with a kid, with almost half the American population SINGLE, there aren’t too many “traditional families” for them to fix.

Most singles cannot even marry to start with, and many of us who are traditional or Christian, want to marry before having a kid. We cannot even form a family.

Do these types of family obsessed groups care about this, are they doing anything to help single women who want to marry (such as me) land a husband and make families of our own? Nope, they sure do not. They only pant, whine, and complain about current families who are supposedly under attack.

Continue reading “Catholic Group Warns College Is Not For Women: ‘She Will Not Learn To Be a Wife And Mother’ (article)”

Neo Calvinists / Neo Reformed Are The New Religious Right

Neo Calvinists / Neo Reformed Are The New Religious Right

I am right wing and a Republican but do not completely support the insane attention Christians give in trying to cram biblical morality down the throats of everyone in society.

I agree doctrine is important, but so too is meeting people’s needs.

So I am not a believer in “the social gospel” but do feel that the Bible teaches Christians need to give bread to the hungry and spend less time getting wrapped up in politics or being against abortion, homosexuality and whatever else.

I’m fed up with conservative Christians injecting politics into everything, or mixing religion with politics to the extreme extent they do.

This guy thinks that the old school religious right is dead or irrelevant and has been replaced by the Neo-Calvinists, and I cannot stand the Neo Cal’s. They and their theology are obnoxious.

Calvinism, even in its milder forms, reminds me of Islam, and I consider Islam harsh, unloving, violent, sexist, and it presents a God who is a violent jerk who hates all people (except, in the case of Calvinism, for maybe “the elect”).

(Link): I’m Probably Right About the New Religious Right

Excerpts (but please click the link above to read the entire page):

    I suggested that the neo-reformed movement – the “Young, Restless, and Reformed” that emerged a decade or so ago and have consolidated most notably into The Gospel Coalition, segments of the PCA, Southern Seminary and segments of the SBC, and Mark Driscoll’s Acts 29 network – is giving rise to a new religious right in the U.S.

… And the oversensitive pushback from these influential NR leaders likely just confirms the validity of the point I’m proposing. See, it has been a mainstay of the neo-reformed perspective to officially eschew political preoccupation in favor of “the gospel” and staying “gospel-centered.”

Continue reading “Neo Calvinists / Neo Reformed Are The New Religious Right”

More ‘Men Are Visual’ Baloney, Discussed at Another Blog

More ‘Men Are Visual’ Baloney, Discussed at Another Blog (from someone with similar views as mine)

Here’s a post at another blog which covers some ground I’ve been over on my blog before:

(Link): Men Are Visual Women Are Vessels – post from (Link): “Emotional Abuse and You Blog

Here’s an excerpt or two from that page (please visit their blog to read the entire entry):

    This author [who tells married women their husbands are horn dogs to be sexually serviced around the clock, because they are visually stimulated all day long] needs to realize women feel used under those circumstances, and it doesn’t communicate being emotionally healthy at all. He basically states – men lust so make sure you are available when he needs it. Remember his ‘needs’. He is using shame to cover his sin.

    ….Are men going to notice women? Yes. They don’t have to be dressed a certain either. Think BURKA, and tell me those parts of the world LUST isn’t alive and well! They have a heck of a lot less ‘visuals’ to blame it on! Think about it.

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Related posts, this blog:

(Link): Conflicting Message to Christian Women by Christians About Physical Appearance

(Link): The Annoying, Weird, Sexist Preoccupation by Christian Males with Female Looks and Sexuality

(Link): Christian Gender Complementarian Product for Females: Don’t Base Your Value on Your Looks, but Wait, Yes, You Should

(Link): Topics: Friendship is Possible / Sexualization By Culture Of All Relationships

(Link): Getting Married Does Not Necessarily Guarantee Frequent Hot Satisfying Sexy Sex / (also discussed): Gender and Sex Stereotypes (article)

(Link): When The Female Libido and Female Gaze Is Acknowledged in Religion – and the Shirtless Boston Terrorist

(Link): Article: Scientists: Why penis size does matter [to women]

(Link): Women Are Visual And Like Hot Looking Men (Part 1) Joseph in Genesis Was A Stud Muffin
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When The Female Libido and Female Gaze Is Acknowledged in Religion – and the Shirtless Boston Terrorist

When The Female Libido and Female Gaze Is Acknowledged in Religion – and the Shirtless Boston Terrorist

Just like some segments of Islam, there are some schools of Christianity, notably conservative evangelicals, and some Southern Baptists, and Good Lawd knows your Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, who blame women for mens’s sexual trespasses. Women are made accountable for the sexual failings of men, ergo women are given a bunch of man made rules to follow, such as how long their skirts should be and so forth.

Women in all these religous groups are told, or it is strongly implied, that if they are raped, it’s because they were wearing revealing clothing. In some of these faiths, women are told by wearing a low cut blouse or short skirt, they can cause a man to have lusty thoughts, and they, the women, are to blame for this.

Recall from previous musings on this blog I’ve pointed out how conservative Christian males live in this odd bubble of denial where they do not like to admit to themselves, or to each other, that women do notice what men look like, most women prefer sexy, fit, attractive men, and women have sexual desire too.

This brings me to an interesting phenomenon I’ve noticed among some Muslims.

I am by no means an expert on Islam, but I’ve read about it off and on over the years and had to study it a tiny bit while in college.

I recall reading in one book that some Muslim men (and I don’t remember what nation this was) wear long-sleeved shirts all the time, and their rationale for covering up in these long shirts is that some women might be sexually stimulated by seeing their forearms.

I don’t know personally of any women who are “turned on” by a man’s forearms, maybe they do exist, I don’t know, but this attitude was fascinating to me.

In news reports after the Boston Marathon bombings, I heard one reporter mention that the older terrorist, the 26 year old Tamerlan Tsarnaev, told someone months before that he was reluctant to go out in public shirtless, not even to play sports shirtless, was my understanding, because he didn’t want to create lustful thoughts in women who would look at his built frame and think, “hubba hubba.”

Ordinarily, in much of Islamic thought (from what I’ve read over the years), women can bring rape upon themselves, or cause men to commit sexual sin and lustful thoughts, if their bodies and faces are not covered, hence, the wearing of the burka.

Continue reading “When The Female Libido and Female Gaze Is Acknowledged in Religion – and the Shirtless Boston Terrorist”

Hosts on Vince Coakley Radio Program Discuss Churches That Make Family / Marriage Into Idols and Make Unmarried People Feel Excluded

Hosts on Vince Coakley Radio Program Discuss Churches That Make Family / Marriage Into Idols and Make Unmarried People Feel Excluded

(Link): Vince Coakley Radio Program SGM Detox Episode #4: Lifestyle Legalism – by kingdomtalkerin Religion on Sat, Mar 9, 2013

On the following radio show, in addition to discussing…

  • spiritual abuse;
  • how gender complementarian churches are SEXIST and harm women (and marriages);
  • and in addition to discussing problems with home schooling,
  • how some churches are commanding women to refrain from using birth control / Quiverfull / family planning;
  • courtship approach to finding a mate
  • modesty teachings;
  • – both hosts mention that some churches have turned the family into an idol which makes people feel excluded.

    The discussion about how churches turn marriage/family into an idol starts at the 8:50 mark, and the specific comment about marriage/families being an idol in some churches is around the 9:40 mark:

    (Link): Vince Coakley Radio Program SGM Detox Episode #4: Lifestyle Legalism – by kingdomtalkerin Religion on Sat, Mar 9, 2013

    The hosts also discuss how many churches (if they aren’t ignoring singles) mis-use them, take advantage of them, use them as free babysitting service, etc, how they make feel singles bad with their Valentine’s Day parties, etc.

    PREACH IT! PREACH IT! PREACH IT!!!!!

    *applause applause applause*

    DISCLAIMER:

    While on the one hand, some churches hold marriage (and parenting up) to the point they turn it into an idol, there are some Christians out there (even the same ones who idolize it), who tell Christians that wanting to get married means you have made marriage into and idol. That is incorrect.
    It is NOT wrong, selfish, or sinful to DESIRE MARRIAGE for yourself and to PURSUE IT. Desiring marriage does NOT equate to making it in to an idol.

    Book: ‘Feminine By Design’ – Married People (supposedly) Fully Reflect God – Singles Do Not / When Christianity Looks More Like Islam and Less Like Christ

    Book: ‘Feminine By Design’ – Married People (supposedly) Fully Reflect God – Singles Do Not (?) / When Christianity Looks More Like Islam and Less Like Christ
    ——————————-
    –REMINDER TO MEN WHO MAY BE READING THIS POST–

    As a reminder, I’d like to mention to any un-married men who may be reading this:
    Arguments and teachings used by ‘biblical gender complementarians,’ who believe it is wrong for a woman to lead or teach men, and who believe that husbands are in authority over their wives, use the same arguments and pre-suppositions about a woman’s role in life, to teach that un-married men are not as fully “Christian” or as “mature” as married men are, and that un-married men are not as fully in God’s image as married men are.
    This is not just a “woman’s issue.”

    ——————————-
    –Book: FEMININE BY DESIGN, BY JOHN GARR–

    I saw a male author, John. D. Garr, interviewed by a Jewish believer in Jesus on his show. I think the show is called “Jewish Voice” or “Believer’s Voice.”

    The book by Garr is entitled “Feminine By Design: The God-Fashioned Woman.” Garr claims to uncover God’s true meaning for women by going back to and re-examining the Old Testament.

    I do not own a copy of this book, nor have I read it, but I would like to.

    I did watch the last several moments of the interview with Garr by the Jewish host, so I heard some of Garr’s views about women and what he discusses in the book.

    I always get a little nervous when a male author writes about women, or opines about them, especially when he claims to be Christian (or a “believer in Jesus”) and is discussing his views about why and how he believes God created females.

    In my previous post, I touched on the fact that more extreme elements of Christian conservatives (e.g., the Christian fertility cults such as “Quiverfull,” the Rconstructionists, etc) are now teaching that a lone Christian, a Christian who is un-married, does not reflect God’s image. (These views also seem to be permeating into more “normal,” less extremist Christian groups, such as the Neo-Calvinist biblical gender complementarians).

    To them, an un-married man is not a man. An un-married woman is not a woman.

    Both un married males and females are considered to be “less than” their married counterparts, not fully human, and not fully made in God’s image.

    (More on this point in a moment.)

    In this interview, Garr used terms or concepts that raised red flags of concern with me, such as “complements” or “God’s role(s) for women.”

    In the portion of the interview I saw, Garr mentioned that he thinks God created women with an innate sense of modesty and beauty.

    What about all the males who also have an “innate sense of beauty?” (And why is discussion of “modesty” among Christians almost always considered a female-only concern?)

    As far as males appreciating beauty, or having an innate appreciation thereof, there are homo- and hetero- sexual males, both Christian and Non Christian, who appreciate sun-sets, flowers, nature, and who work as artists, photographers, interior designers, fashion designers, and sculptors and painters.

    I do agree that secular culture goes way too far in dictating to American women that the “normal” or supposedly “empowering” thing to do is to behave like your average, vulgar, promiscuous, American secular male, and that this is not necessarily a good thing. I agree with Garr on that.

    However, whenever a Christian man starts throwing out terms like “complementary” (as in women supposedly “complement” men, what qualities men lack, women tend to possess and vice versa), and when a religious male begins tossing out terms such as “modesty,” particularly in regards to discussion of gender, I assume he’s a “biblical gender complementarian” which is just as, if not, more dangerous than secular messages aimed at women.

    At least most secular women know they can pick and choose which messages they can accept and reject from secular media.

    Within Christianity, though, females are taught from a young age by Christian authors, parents, and pastors that they have no choice:
    if God says to do or believe “X” in the Bible, and you are a good Christian girl who sincerely tries to please God, then you have no choice but to believe and do “X.”
    –Please click on the “Read More” link to read the rest of the post–

    Continue reading “Book: ‘Feminine By Design’ – Married People (supposedly) Fully Reflect God – Singles Do Not / When Christianity Looks More Like Islam and Less Like Christ”